Firedrinker Satyr is an amazing card, it's exactly what red needs to push hard early game. If this was around in the Sligh days it would have been a very expensive card, but seeing how most of you are acting all confused about the card, you probably don't even know what Sligh is. I usually just read these posts, but I was so offended by the ignorance of people seeing taking damage as a red card as a drawback, I had to post. I started playing in 1993, I bet half of you were not even born yet. It's like when I break my vintage black deck out and cast Juzam Djinn on Turn 1, people are like "I don't get how he's good, he does damage to you." Magic is slowly starting to turn into world of warcraft, so many new and ignorant players. Firedrinker is amazing, if you go 1st, and they don't drop a creature or immediately deal with it, it's an immense threat. Jackal pup won games vs control in type 1, and extended if he was not immediately dealt with, people would force of will jackal pup....
Firedrinker is alot better than Jackal pup, thus it's an amazing card.
The Satyr isn't good at all. It's techincally a better version of Jackal Pup, but I'd rather play with the original. If I need to trade with a 4/4, I'd have to lose 6 life at the cost of 4 mana... Anyone playing with this guy needs to put in some life gain to make him valuable, but even then he still feels like a horrible mana sink.
Dude, nobody is forcing you to pay 6 life to trade with a 4/4.
And I'd rather have that option than not be able to trade with a 4/4 at all.
There is certainly a skill level for players where giving them additional options hurts their chances of winning. And these boards are an excellent candidate to showcase it, it seems.
I don't get how people can be this bad at card evaluation. They must think Selesnya Sentry is worse than a vanilla 3/2.
The Satyr looks bad. I'm no aggro player but look n this set White gets a 2/1 for with only upsides. There's Fiendslayer Paladin. Etc. Maybe there's a reason RDW players will be excited about this card, but I don't see it.
The Satyr isn't good at all. It's techincally a better version of Jackal Pup, but I'd rather play with the original. If I need to trade with a 4/4, I'd have to lose 6 life at the cost of 4 mana... Anyone playing with this guy needs to put in some life gain to make him valuable, but even then he still feels like a horrible mana sink.
Unless you're bad, Jackal Pup isn't "technically worse," it's strictly worse. An option can't hurt you (in any even remotely reasonable scenarios) if you have any idea how to play. How bad must you be to not want the option between chumping or trading for additional life loss? If chumping is the better play, don't pump it.
The Satyr looks bad. I'm no aggro player but look n this set White gets a 2/1 for with only upsides. There's Fiendslayer Paladin. Etc. Maybe there's a reason RDW players will be excited about this card, but I don't see it.
Why do people not know the colors are different? Yes there are W and G creatures who are 2/1s for 1 with only upside. That's because cost for cost, G/W creatures are supposed to be more powerful. Almost every red creature ever printed is awful if all you do is compare it to similar G/W creatures. Could you imagine how broken RDW would be if you had red's burn with monored creatures on par with G/W creatures? A drawback free 3/3 RR creature, for example?
For what it's worth, the opposite of evergreen is "deciduous" so I suggest we start using that from now on to refer to shroud, banding, islandhome, etc.
The Satyr looks bad. I'm no aggro player but look n this set White gets a 2/1 for with only upsides. There's Fiendslayer Paladin. Etc. Maybe there's a reason RDW players will be excited about this card, but I don't see it.
You can't compare white cards to red cards. Both Savannah Lions and Jackel Pup were very good even though Pup is objectively a worse card. Red has more reach to finish off opponents do its creatures will always be a little worse.
Anyone who says satyr is bad because of cackler is just plain wrong.
They're not interchangeable. Together, they make red a deck.
It's like saying cackler was bad because Stromkirk existed. No. Go look at the decklists. You can play both.
Right. It's not bad because of cackler. It is worse than cackler, though, and in some decks I think Legion Loyalist or Akroan Crusader or someother possible cards will be preferable 1-drops. If you need more red aggro 1-drops, though, satyr works.
I think a lot of the defenders of this card are creating a straw-man argument. I'm not taking seriously anyone who thinks this card is BAD because you lose life, or because it can't block, or whatever. But I do think it is worse than a number of great-to-fantastic one-drops red has had over the past few years. That's fine, maybe that's the direction they want to scale back aggro, but it's surprising that white and black still seem to be getting better-than-ever aggro weenies.
(and before I hear it: YES, I UNDERSTAND THAT DIFFERENT COLORS ARE DIFFERENT. I'm not saying red *should* be getting weenies on par with white or green. I'm saying that it arguably has been, in many cases, over the past few years, and satyr is not quite there.)
On second thought, I don't see why I should defend the satyr anymore.
While the cool kids in the 'hood go around thinking that the card is rubbish, I'll gladly unburden them of such lowly cards, trading them for beads and cheetos.
And then, when the initial metagame for standard develops, the card jumps up to $8 (like it happened with Stromkirk Noble) when the first tier one deck just so happens to be monored.
Then I trade them away after a couple weeks of brutal domination, while they're at their cost peak, get me a cute midrange deck once the meta has evolved and watch them block with the Satyr and lose horribly.
At that point I would say "yep, that satyr is lousy".
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I know the perfect guy for the third faction:
"When you show up to the Mirrodin Besieged Prerelease, you'll be asked to choose a faction: Mirran, Phyrexian, or Jaded A-Hole" Aaron Forsythe, on Twitter
Everything changes, nothing remains without a change - Buddha
I'm not saying Satyr is one hundred percent bad, I'm just saying I'd have a tough time justifying it when the opportunity cost to splashing white or black in your aggressive deck is so low.
Well, I was really hyped for the fates.
Was not dissapoint. New commander!
Also, Jackal Pup 2.0 seems very solid. Probably will be a sideboard card, but a very good one at that.
Why would you ever put the satyr in a sideboard? That makes absolutely no sense, you main deck it or your deck doesn't want it. Period. I could see boarding it out maybe in mirrors but that's about it.
I'm not saying Satyr is one hundred percent bad, I'm just saying I'd have a tough time justifying it when the opportunity cost to splashing white or black in your aggressive deck is so low.
Is it? In the new format you lose a lot of untapped dual lands which means adding random colors to your aggro deck becomes a legitimate thing to think about carefully. You can't just put whatever color you want in your aggro deck willy-nilly anymore.
Why would you ever put the satyr in a sideboard? That makes absolutely no sense, you main deck it or your deck doesn't want it. Period. I could see boarding it out maybe in mirrors but that's about it.
It's much better against a control deck than it is against an aggro deck.
"When you show up to the Mirrodin Besieged Prerelease, you'll be asked to choose a faction: Mirran, Phyrexian, or Jaded A-Hole" Aaron Forsythe, on Twitter
Everything changes, nothing remains without a change - Buddha
I'm not saying Satyr is one hundred percent bad, I'm just saying I'd have a tough time justifying it when the opportunity cost to splashing white or black in your aggressive deck is so low.
The scry lands ETBT, the schocklands lose you life and Burning Earth is a thing
There definitely is an opportunity cost to splashing other colours once Innistrad leaves; especially for Red Aggro
Why would you ever put the satyr in a sideboard? That makes absolutely no sense, you main deck it or your deck doesn't want it. Period. I could see boarding it out maybe in mirrors but that's about it.
Is it? In the new format you lose a lot of untapped dual lands which means adding random colors to your aggro deck becomes a legitimate thing to think about carefully. You can't just put whatever color you want in your aggro deck willy-nilly anymore.
For the same reason Reckless Waif is sideboarded against control. To have a beefy 3/2 when they are on the draw. Sure she was a decent card when flipped but overall she stayed a 1/1 in a format where people spam spells.
I see it in the same way, depending if the meta will take up burn as their removal of choice. Then the satyr becomes a liability.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
You're welcome. And I agree though Pit Fight sucks in constructed, but not Boros Charm.
Well, I take that back. Boros Charm may be playable in constructed, but certainly not Pit Fight. I stand firm on that one. Nobody plays Pit Fight in constructed. Then there were the other cards he mentioned in his initial post that I quoted, which he conveniently didn't bother to mention when he tried to refute my post. He came back at me by saying...what, 2 of the 10 cards I mentioned were INDEED playable....and actually, only one of them is conscruted standard playable, Boros Charm. Pit Fight will never see any play.
Seriously, though—G/W is in nooooo danger of going away. I'm sure I'm not the only player out there who's managed to figure out that one ridiculous combo. The one that you can do with nothing but cards from RtR and M14.
That one that consistently kills on Turn 4.
O/T, but I wish I had more time to think about this. The best think I can come up with atm involves populating Angel tokens but that's nowhere near that fast. Though it's probalby has a sense of inevitability by that point. Now I get to spend the last 10 minutes of my lunch break on Gatherer . . . .
This guy will see play in red decks because he is a 2/1 red one drop that does not have an ability that hinders him to the point of unplayability. Whether those decks will do well in the upcoming meta is another matter entirely (I suspect they won't, as midrange is looking very strong.)
This guy is a burn magnet like none other, he looks to do poorly in the aggro mirror and flat out sucks against GW. Spells like Anger of the Gods and Mizzium Mortars punish him severely. The damage he will hit you for when he dies to a burn spell or a block will be significant (otherwise, I suspect Wizards wouldn't have bothered giving him the ability). Life matters when it is the difference between winning and losing, and putting yourself in burn range is never good.
But he's a playable red one drop, so playing him in a red deck makes sense.
You're welcome. And I agree though Pit Fight sucks in constructed, but not Boros Charm.
Well, I take that back. Boros Charm may be playable in constructed, but certainly not Pit Fight. I stand firm on that one. Nobody plays Pit Fight in constructed. Then there were the other cards he mentioned in his initial post that I quoted, which he conveniently didn't bother to mention when he tried to refute my post. He came back at me by saying...what, 2 of the 10 cards I mentioned were INDEED playable....and actually, only one of them is conscruted standard playable, Boros Charm. Pit Fight will never see any play.
I don't remember for sure, but I think Dynacharge was in the 2nd place PTDGM deck. It was frequently in the mono red Block decks. it's pretty bad fit heroic though.
I don't remember for sure, but I think Dynacharge was in the 2nd place PTDGM deck. It was frequently in the mono red Block decks. it's pretty bad fit heroic though.
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Yah, I was more referring to Standard constructed than block, especially since the heroic mechanic wouldn't mix with Dynacharge in any "block" format, lol.
I don't remember for sure, but I think Dynacharge was in the 2nd place PTDGM deck. It was frequently in the mono red Block decks. it's pretty bad fit heroic though.
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Yah, I was more referring to Standard constructed than block, especially since the heroic mechanic wouldn't mix with Dynacharge in any "block" format, lol.
The Block format is going to be very relevant to the new Standard, so looking at those decks gives yo an idea of what to play. The decks will change, but those are usually the building blocks in the first month or so.
For the same reason Reckless Waif is sideboarded against control. To have a beefy 3/2 when they are on the draw. Sure she was a decent card when flipped but overall she stayed a 1/1 in a format where people spam spells.
I see it in the same way, depending if the meta will take up burn as their removal of choice. Then the satyr becomes a liability.
Except Reckless Waif has never been a sideboard card.
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The devil's in the detail. BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
Is it? In the new format you lose a lot of untapped dual lands which means adding random colors to your aggro deck becomes a legitimate thing to think about carefully. You can't just put whatever color you want in your aggro deck willy-nilly anymore.
I don't think adding a color to your deck has ever been something to do "willy-nilly." That said, I think it's evident that a lot of people posting here don't have a lot of experience in formats with "bad" mana. I think the Jund Aggro decks that play Experiment One, Ash Zealot and Dreg Mangler are basically dead, but I think Boros still has a lot of life in it and that the opportunity cost to playing four Sacred Foundries, two Temples of Triumph and some number of Plains is, yes, very, very low. You will have to do work to optimize your mana base in a way that just throwing in eight dual lands wasn't work, but I definitely think both Boros and Rakdos aggro are still potentially real decks.
Firedrinker is alot better than Jackal pup, thus it's an amazing card.
Dude, nobody is forcing you to pay 6 life to trade with a 4/4.
And I'd rather have that option than not be able to trade with a 4/4 at all.
I don't get how people can be this bad at card evaluation. They must think Selesnya Sentry is worse than a vanilla 3/2.
Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Jackal Pup was an uncommon at a time when Serra Angel was a rare and/or too powerful to be reprinted. Just sayin'.
Unless you're bad, Jackal Pup isn't "technically worse," it's strictly worse. An option can't hurt you (in any even remotely reasonable scenarios) if you have any idea how to play. How bad must you be to not want the option between chumping or trading for additional life loss? If chumping is the better play, don't pump it.
Why do people not know the colors are different? Yes there are W and G creatures who are 2/1s for 1 with only upside. That's because cost for cost, G/W creatures are supposed to be more powerful. Almost every red creature ever printed is awful if all you do is compare it to similar G/W creatures. Could you imagine how broken RDW would be if you had red's burn with monored creatures on par with G/W creatures? A drawback free 3/3 RR creature, for example?
Was not dissapoint. New commander!
Also, Jackal Pup 2.0 seems very solid. Probably will be a sideboard card, but a very good one at that.
Quotes:
You can't compare white cards to red cards. Both Savannah Lions and Jackel Pup were very good even though Pup is objectively a worse card. Red has more reach to finish off opponents do its creatures will always be a little worse.
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Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Right. It's not bad because of cackler. It is worse than cackler, though, and in some decks I think Legion Loyalist or Akroan Crusader or someother possible cards will be preferable 1-drops. If you need more red aggro 1-drops, though, satyr works.
I think a lot of the defenders of this card are creating a straw-man argument. I'm not taking seriously anyone who thinks this card is BAD because you lose life, or because it can't block, or whatever. But I do think it is worse than a number of great-to-fantastic one-drops red has had over the past few years. That's fine, maybe that's the direction they want to scale back aggro, but it's surprising that white and black still seem to be getting better-than-ever aggro weenies.
(and before I hear it: YES, I UNDERSTAND THAT DIFFERENT COLORS ARE DIFFERENT. I'm not saying red *should* be getting weenies on par with white or green. I'm saying that it arguably has been, in many cases, over the past few years, and satyr is not quite there.)
While the cool kids in the 'hood go around thinking that the card is rubbish, I'll gladly unburden them of such lowly cards, trading them for beads and cheetos.
And then, when the initial metagame for standard develops, the card jumps up to $8 (like it happened with Stromkirk Noble) when the first tier one deck just so happens to be monored.
Then I trade them away after a couple weeks of brutal domination, while they're at their cost peak, get me a cute midrange deck once the meta has evolved and watch them block with the Satyr and lose horribly.
At that point I would say "yep, that satyr is lousy".
"When you show up to the Mirrodin Besieged Prerelease, you'll be asked to choose a faction: Mirran, Phyrexian, or Jaded A-Hole" Aaron Forsythe, on Twitter
Everything changes, nothing remains without a change - Buddha
Magic Rules Advisor
Standard: W/R Aggro
Serra Angel has always been uncommon.
Why would you ever put the satyr in a sideboard? That makes absolutely no sense, you main deck it or your deck doesn't want it. Period. I could see boarding it out maybe in mirrors but that's about it.
Is it? In the new format you lose a lot of untapped dual lands which means adding random colors to your aggro deck becomes a legitimate thing to think about carefully. You can't just put whatever color you want in your aggro deck willy-nilly anymore.
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
It's much better against a control deck than it is against an aggro deck.
really?
Times were different, I'll grant you that much.
"When you show up to the Mirrodin Besieged Prerelease, you'll be asked to choose a faction: Mirran, Phyrexian, or Jaded A-Hole" Aaron Forsythe, on Twitter
Everything changes, nothing remains without a change - Buddha
Magic Rules Advisor
The scry lands ETBT, the schocklands lose you life and Burning Earth is a thing
There definitely is an opportunity cost to splashing other colours once Innistrad leaves; especially for Red Aggro
For the same reason Reckless Waif is sideboarded against control. To have a beefy 3/2 when they are on the draw. Sure she was a decent card when flipped but overall she stayed a 1/1 in a format where people spam spells.
I see it in the same way, depending if the meta will take up burn as their removal of choice. Then the satyr becomes a liability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Well, I take that back. Boros Charm may be playable in constructed, but certainly not Pit Fight. I stand firm on that one. Nobody plays Pit Fight in constructed. Then there were the other cards he mentioned in his initial post that I quoted, which he conveniently didn't bother to mention when he tried to refute my post. He came back at me by saying...what, 2 of the 10 cards I mentioned were INDEED playable....and actually, only one of them is conscruted standard playable, Boros Charm. Pit Fight will never see any play.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
O/T, but I wish I had more time to think about this. The best think I can come up with atm involves populating Angel tokens but that's nowhere near that fast. Though it's probalby has a sense of inevitability by that point. Now I get to spend the last 10 minutes of my lunch break on Gatherer . . . .
This guy is a burn magnet like none other, he looks to do poorly in the aggro mirror and flat out sucks against GW. Spells like Anger of the Gods and Mizzium Mortars punish him severely. The damage he will hit you for when he dies to a burn spell or a block will be significant (otherwise, I suspect Wizards wouldn't have bothered giving him the ability). Life matters when it is the difference between winning and losing, and putting yourself in burn range is never good.
But he's a playable red one drop, so playing him in a red deck makes sense.
I don't remember for sure, but I think Dynacharge was in the 2nd place PTDGM deck. It was frequently in the mono red Block decks. it's pretty bad fit heroic though.
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Yah, I was more referring to Standard constructed than block, especially since the heroic mechanic wouldn't mix with Dynacharge in any "block" format, lol.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
The Block format is going to be very relevant to the new Standard, so looking at those decks gives yo an idea of what to play. The decks will change, but those are usually the building blocks in the first month or so.
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Except Reckless Waif has never been a sideboard card.
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
I don't think adding a color to your deck has ever been something to do "willy-nilly." That said, I think it's evident that a lot of people posting here don't have a lot of experience in formats with "bad" mana. I think the Jund Aggro decks that play Experiment One, Ash Zealot and Dreg Mangler are basically dead, but I think Boros still has a lot of life in it and that the opportunity cost to playing four Sacred Foundries, two Temples of Triumph and some number of Plains is, yes, very, very low. You will have to do work to optimize your mana base in a way that just throwing in eight dual lands wasn't work, but I definitely think both Boros and Rakdos aggro are still potentially real decks.
Standard: W/R Aggro