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Firstly, I don't consider myself a standard player in the slightest. Secondly, I am just basing judgement around the functionality and playability of these cards. Finally, this is just my initial feelings of the cards on how they will be used. Thoughtsieze- For certain. I don't think anyone would disagree with that sentiment. Its a powerful card for black control variants, if any would sprout in standard, to use in a heartbeat.
Chained to the Rocks- Likely to appear in any deck variant using white. This card feels almost forced to just get more playable cards into the set. Edit: Maybe not every deck using white but those that can afford to namely W/R/x varients.
Spear of Heliod- Will appear in white weanie decks everywhere.
Dissolve- Strictly better Cancel, and probably replaces Dissipate now since most graveyard shenanigans rotate out.
Hero's Downfall- When you've got to kill that pesky planeswalker. And there are two annoying ones in this set.
Firedrinker Satyr- Aggro decks lose some guys when standard comes around so I imagine this guy fills a slot that goes missing. Hes pretty good at the post-board-clear moments in the game due to his firebreathing ability.
Steam Augury- This card has already been put through the ringer by posters here and others, including pros, who like this card a lot. I see it making it into standard and modern, being a standout card.
Xenagos, the Reveler- This guy was designed for R/G. All his abilities are ridiculous.
Elspeth, Suns Champion- Shes expensive but her abilities make her worth paying. Her ultimate you can pretty much ignore because her +1 and -3 are what make her pretty damn awesome.
Stormbreath Dragon- I hear having haste, protection from white and flying, make this card the bane for most of white based control. This speaks of having repercussions in Modern and Standard Red aggro variants.
[card=Dismal Failure]"Two magi could trade spells all day and never crown a victor.
The real battle is not one of power but of will.
If your confidence breaks, so too shall you." —Venser[/card]
Firstly, I don't consider myself a standard player in the slightest. Secondly, I am just basing judgement around the functionality and playability of these cards. Finally, this is just my initial feelings of the cards on how they will be used.
Thoughtsieze- For certain. I don't think anyone would disagree with that sentiment. Its a powerful card for black control variants, if any would sprout in standard, to use in a heartbeat.
Chained to the Rocks- Likely to appear in any deck variant using white. This card feels almost forced to just get more playable cards into the set.
Spear of Heliod- Will appear in white weanie decks everywhere.
Dissolve- Strictly better Cancel, and probably can replace Dissipate now since most graveyard shenanigans rotate out.
Hero's Downfall- When you've got to kill that pesky planeswalker. And there are two annoying ones in this set.
Firedrinker Satyr- Aggro decks lose some guys when standard comes around so I imagine this guy fills a slot that goes missing. Hes pretty good at the post-board-clear moments in the game due to his firebreathing ability.
Steam Augury- This card has already been put through the ringer by posters here and others, including pros, who like this card a lot. I see it making it into standard and modern, being a standout card.
Xenagos, the Reveler- This guy was designed for R/G in most formats.
Elspeth, Suns Champion- Shes expensive but her abilities make her worth paying. Her ultimate you can pretty much ignore because her +1 and -3 are what make her pretty damn awesome.
Stormbreath Dragon- I hear having haste, protection from white and flying, make this card the bane for most of white based control. This speaks of having repercussions in Modern and Standard Red aggro variants.
Pretty much this^ except replace Spear of heliod with Anger of the Gods. Being only 1 of 2 good board wipes cheaper than 5 mana (Supreme Verdict being the other) this will see play in any midrange/control deck that runs red and even in some slower red aggro decks.
My list, ignoring reprints (otherwise Annul and Thoughtseize would be taking up slots)
10) Hero's Downfall - Instant speed planeswalker kill is very strong.
9) Hammer of Purphoros - Gives red decks a huge late game/ability to recover from mana flood. Forces control decks to stabilize above six life, which can be difficult.
8) Firedrinker Satyr - A beastly little one drop that red has been wanting.
7) Chained to the Rocks - Best spot removal to come out in quite awhile, although vulnerable.
6) Thassa, God of the Sea - Scrying every upkeep is a very powerful thing. Possibly being a creature or making guys unblockable is just gravy.
5) Purphoros, God of the Forge - Really powerful damage engine.
4) Anger of the Gods - Strong sweeper that takes care of Voice of Resurgence along with other annoying guys.
3) Dissolve - Best counterspell in ages. Let's you dig for another.
2) Fleecemane Lion - A watchwolf at its worst, a nigh-unkillable monster at best.
1) Stormbreath Dragon - A solid replacement for the rotating Thundermaw Hellkite. I expect to see a lot of this guy.
Scry lands (these are fantastic)
Elspeth, Sun's Champion (the premier planeswalker of the set imo)
Hero's Downfall
Anger of the Gods
Heliod
Sylvan Caryatid
Purphoros
Stormbreath Dragon
Fleecemane Lion
Xenagos, the Reveler
Bow of Nylea
Polukranos
4/2 flash guy
In no real order
Left off reprints
Read the Bones and the scry force spike should also see play.
If it were just gravy, Thassa would be a horrible card. Scy 1 in upkeep on a 3 mana enchantment is pretty damn weak in comparison to many other 3 mana enchantments that give you straight draw and card advantage.
Yes, perhaps in black. But blue? No. Blue has never had a card that does something like that. Blue will be able to take advantage of the scry better than any other color.
Yes, perhaps in black. But blue? No. Blue has never had a card that does something like that. Blue will be able to take advantage of the scry better than any other color.
She is 3rd to 4th best God, not worth mentioning imo.
It was difficult to narrow the list down to just ten, but here's my attempt.
My top 10:
10. Fleecemane Lion
9. Dissolve
8. Firedrinker Satyr
7. Polukranos, World Eater
6. Hammer of Purphoros
5. Soldier of the Pantheon
4. Scry lands
3. Thoughtseize
2. Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
The first nine probably require no explanation. My #1 choice will be more controversial, but I currently think Nykthos is the underhyped standout card of the set.
Honorable Mention:
Chained to the Rocks, Steam Augury - Strong cards but color requirements might keep them out of the spotlight
Phalanx Leader, Fabled Hero, Agent of Fates - Only if Heroic somehow becomes a thing in constructed
Rescue from the Underworld, Gift of Immortality, Nemesis of Mortals - Probably not role players just yet, but could become good with the right synergies
Anger of the Gods, Daxos of Meletis, Underworld Cerberus - All quite good but it isn't clear that the right deck type exists to take advantage of them
Xenagos, the Reveler - Just because he's probably the strongest card I didn't mention yet
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Karma doesn't exist. You can't depend on it. If you count on it for justice or catharsis, you will find that you have placed your emotions on very unstable ground; and you will either repeat your disappointment in society over and over, or you will engage in a persistent delusion to protect yourself from that feeling.
She is 3rd to 4th best God, not worth mentioning imo.
What? I'm afraid you may have lost your mind. She's easily #2. White is slow, green doesn't do enough and black is limited to anti-lifegain. Scrying every turn? Oh yes, that is relevant for every blue deck. Blue doesn't want to miss a land drop for the first 8+ turns, she makes it possible.
What? I'm afraid you may have lost your mind. She's easily #2. White is slow, green doesn't do enough and black is limited to anti-lifegain. Scrying every turn? Oh yes, that is relevant for every blue deck. Blue doesn't want to miss a land drop for the first 8+ turns, she makes it possible.
She's good, but she needs a lot of board presence to be maximized. That's not really blue's forte. White, red, and green all come ahead of her in terms of reaching their full potential, and of those Purphoros is really the only one with obvious competitive implications in his color's archetypes.
What? I'm afraid you may have lost your mind. She's easily #2. White is slow, green doesn't do enough and black is limited to anti-lifegain. Scrying every turn? Oh yes, that is relevant for every blue deck. Blue doesn't want to miss a land drop for the first 8+ turns, she makes it possible.
White and Red blow her out of the water. I could even see the Green one getting some play if Mono Green and/or R/G Ramp become a thing.
It was difficult to narrow the list down to just ten, but here's my attempt.
My top 10:
10. Fleecemane Lion
9. Dissolve
8. Firedrinker Satyr
7. Polukranos, World Eater
6. Hammer of Purphoros
5. Soldier of the Pantheon
4. Scry lands
3. Thoughtseize
2. Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
The first nine probably require no explanation. My #1 choice will be more controversial, but I currently think Nykthos is the underhyped standout card of the set.
Honorable Mention:
Chained to the Rocks, Steam Augury - Strong cards but color requirements might keep them out of the spotlight
Phalanx Leader, Fabled Hero, Agent of Fates - Only if Heroic somehow becomes a thing in constructed
Rescue from the Underworld, Gift of Immortality, Nemesis of Mortals - Probably not role players just yet, but could become good with the right synergies
Anger of the Gods, Daxos of Meletis, Underworld Cerberus - All quite good but it isn't clear that the right deck type exists to take advantage of them
Xenagos, the Reveler - Just because he's probably the strongest card I didn't mention yet
have you played with the shrine at all? It's horrible needing 3 devotion, to break even and 4 for one mana gained. It's bad.
She's good, but she needs a lot of board presence to be maximized. That's not really blue's forte. White, red, and green all come ahead of her in terms of reaching their full potential, and of those Purphoros is really the only one with obvious competitive implications in his color's archetypes.
You couldn't be more wrong. Blue wants nothing more than to draw what's needed for the given situation. Against control, it's more land. Against other decks, it's spells. Thassa allows for both to happen consistently. She doesn't need to be turned on to be useful for blue. Turn two Omenspeaker, turn three Thassa, turn four Supreme Verdict. I expect to see that very frequently in the new Standard.
White and Red blow her out of the water.
Yes, I agree with red. But white? Really? He's slow as molasses. Standard isn't slowing down that much. Tokens will lose their relevancy when Lingering Souls goes the way of the Dodo. A 2/1 token every turn is strong, but not for four mana.
That does not change the fact that Thassa is a crap card if all it gives you is Scry 1.
You don't even have to compare her to Phyrexian Arena which gives you a card for a life which is 1000 times better than Scry 1.
You can compare Thassa even to other standard cards -> Underworld Connections.
An enchantment that really only serves to scry 1 is weak. Especially because scry 1 is significantly worse than scry 2. You will often have to decide if you scry away a semi-useful cards in hopes for a useful card but it might just be that you will draw a useless card.
Every card you listed was black. Try to find something in blue. Yeah? Can't find anything? Thought so. Thassa is a digging machine. She'll find you what you want without any cost, unlike her black counterparts. Which are obviously more powerful, but less demanding. Being able to scry away something semi-useful (aka Azorius Charm) to dig for a Supreme Verdict is worth her minimal cost of three.
You couldn't be more wrong. Blue wants nothing more than to draw what's needed for the given situation. Against control, it's more land. Against other decks, it's spells. Thassa allows for both to happen consistently. She doesn't need to be turned on to be useful for blue. Turn two Omenspeaker, turn three Thassa, turn four Supreme Verdict. I expect to see that very frequently in the new Standard.
Yes, I agree with red. But white? Really? He's slow as molasses. Standard isn't slowing down that much. Tokens will lose their relevancy when Lingering Souls goes the way of the Dodo. A 2/1 token every turn is strong, but not for four mana.
You're underestimating the power of a 5/5 or 5/6 indestructible creature. I can agree that blue (and every other color besides) does want nothing more than to draw into useful cards, but scrying isn't the same as drawing. While scry 1 every turn is nice and all, there are probably more competitive cards you can be casting on turn 3. I certainly don't see it being overwhelmingly powerful on its own, which is why you should be striving towards making full use out of her. White plays a lot of permanents, so the utility of Heliod goes up considerably compared to Thassa. I feel that makes him objectively better, if not simply more useful.
That having been said, I think she's going to be amazing in EDH.
You couldn't be more wrong. Blue wants nothing more than to draw what's needed for the given situation. Against control, it's more land. Against other decks, it's spells. Thassa allows for both to happen consistently. She doesn't need to be turned on to be useful for blue. Turn two Omenspeaker, turn three Thassa, turn four Supreme Verdict. I expect to see that very frequently in the new Standard.
Yes, I agree with red. But white? Really? He's slow as molasses. Standard isn't slowing down that much. Tokens will lose their relevancy when Lingering Souls goes the way of the Dodo. A 2/1 token every turn is strong, but not for four mana.
It's slowing down some and there will always be some form of a Control deck(s). This season's Control decks happen to be using White a lot. Control also likes it's mana sinks, and Vigilance is nice for the quicker decks. Heliod will turn in to a creature more often then Thassa too.
Tokens will still be a thing. There is some interesting and impressive brews happening in W/B/R for tokens.
Yes, I agree with red. But white? Really? He's slow as molasses. Standard isn't slowing down that much. Tokens will lose their relevancy when Lingering Souls goes the way of the Dodo. A 2/1 token every turn is strong, but not for four mana.
It really is tho
Avacyn's Pilgrim
Arbor Elf
Flint-Hoof Boar
Hellrider
Geist of Saint Traft
Rancor
Invisible Stalker
Restoration Angel
Huntmaster of the Fells
Bonfire of the Damned
are all huge blows to aggressive strategies. Sphinx's Rev is still around, Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict, Azorius Charm, Jace, Architect of Thought, Far/Away, Turn/Burn, Warleader's Helix, Magma Jet, Anger of the Gods, Elspeth, Sun's Champion...it's going to be a tough time for aggro for a while.
Why would you play thassa over Read the Bones?
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
If we are talking Blue/Not Black decks, I think Thassa's usefulness would be best in Aura Hexproof standard(I don't think the deck has all the cards yet, but it's getting there). In which case it would be G/U with Gladecover Scout slapping on the plentiful of enchantments we have. Thassa will act as a sift and give unblockable when needed. This would also allow Blue to have some permanent presence for Thassa.
Note: Once again, I don't think this deck will be competitive and requires cards from the next sets to really take off.
Avacyn's Pilgrim
Arbor Elf
Flint-Hoof Boar
Hellrider
Geist of Saint Traft
Rancor
Invisible Stalker
Restoration Angel
Huntmaster of the Fells
Bonfire of the Damned
are all huge blows to aggressive strategies. Sphinx's Rev is still around, Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict, Azorius Charm, Jace, Architect of Thought, Far/Away, Turn/Burn, Warleader's Helix, Magma Jet, Anger of the Gods, Elspeth, Sun's Champion...it's going to be a tough time for aggro for a while.
Why would you play thassa over Read the Bones?
Er... if you're not playing U/B?
That said, my predictions(Sans reprints, as Magma Jet and Thoughtseize will certainly see play):
1. Stormbreath Dragon. A suitable replacement for Thundermaw, and has a very relevent protection ability. I doubt the monstrous will come up, but honestly it's just gravy on the biscuit at that point.
2. Scry lands. They will see play, they are plenty good.
3. Purphorous. Great in aggro, hard to remove, and makes rallying after a board wipe much easier for several reasons.
4. Hammer of Purphorous. See above.
5. Sylvan Caryatid. A suitable replacement for Farseek most of the time; has uses in control builds to slow down aggro.
6. Whip of Erebos. This thing can get mean and fast in certain reanimator builds. Certainly Scooze and Rest in Peace hurt it a bit, but not so much that I think it's an unviable archetype.
7. Xenagos. He's pure upside, all the time. Two extremely relevant abilities to use when you get him out, and a third that is simply win-more.
8. Hero's Downfall. Obviously.
9. Firedrinker Satyr. The 1 drop RDW deservers and needs.
10. Dissolve. A very nifty card for control
That does not change the fact that Thassa is a crap card if all it gives you is Scry 1.
You don't even have to compare her to Phyrexian Arena which gives you a card for a life which is 1000 times better than Scry 1.
You can compare Thassa even to other standard cards -> Underworld Connections.
An enchantment that really only serves to scry 1 is weak. Especially because scry 1 is significantly worse than scry 2. You will often have to decide if you scry away a semi-useful cards in hopes for a useful card but it might just be that you will draw a useless card.
3 mana for continuous free scry 1 is not bad for a control-deck who just wish to draw out the game until they can seal it.
Agreed that Scry 1 is very much worse than Scry 2 (but scry 2 would have been too much on her though) but it doesn't mean it's useless.
I don't think there's any doubt that Phyrexian Arena is better than Thassa in effect. However one is black and drains your life and the other Blue and has other possible applications.
Also consider her resilience as a 3-mana indestructible enchantment.
Comparison to Underworld Connections: Again comparing to a black card and one that even occupies one of your lands while still draining you and has no real resilience (in case enchantment/artifact hate is run as SB-options or even MB) while the other can only be removed through exile (we have 1 of those for enchantments now? and only in green) and has other applications.
In my reckoning the gods are ranked as follows:
1: Purphoros (obvious strong card that does what red wants)
2: Thassa (being cheaper and having that free scry while potentially making your dudes unblockable - for instance Tidebinder Mage, if that will be used)
3: Heliod (Token creator still seems alright for the control match-up)
4: Erebos (too narrow IMO and his draw can very easily be compared to Underworld Connections)
5: Nylea (the most boring of them all with the weirdest activated ability and I don't expect mono-green ramp to be a thing. We have two decent sweepers in Supreme Verdict and Anger of the Gods and also considering Mizzium Mortars. Black will easily be able to deny the devotion with Doom Blade and Hero's Downfall.)
Generally I figured to evaluate the gods purely on their performance without devotion and this is my verdict.
Nylea's big weakness is that she's the most reliant on creatures, and she already does things Green is very capable at. She'll have the easiest time in Standard hitting Devotion, which can make her into a pretty decent clock. If there's a strong Green Creature deck she can make it work.
Thassa and Heliod are stronger as they have one ability not reliant on creatures. Thassa's is a constant scry 1, and Heliod is to make tokens (which in turn are vigilant, because of his reliant on creature effect). Post board-wipe both are at least capable of doing something to help you get back on your feet. Upping the playability of both.
Phossy bypasses that because he's looking to be built around, and already works very well with things Red likes to do. And Erebos has zero reliance on creatures but half of his effects either needs to be built around or they won't come up. And even if you run Orzhov colors you won't have enough 'they gain life' cards to make them worthwhile as a combo with him.
The only fun interaction in a Nylea creature feature is that you can turn Nylea + her Bow into Psuedo-Super Trample and force a lot of damage through.
I really, really doubt any of the Gods are going to be good in constructed.
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“A man's at odds to know his mind cause his mind is aught he has to know it with. He can know his heart, but he dont want to. Rightly so. Best not to look in there. It aint the heart of a creature that is bound in the way that God has set for it. You can find meanness in the least of creatures, but when God made man the devil was at his elbow. A creature that can do anything. Make a machine. And a machine to make the machine. And evil that can run itself a thousand years, no need to tend it.”
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
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Here is a link to the complete spoiler for reference.
- Jon Finkel believes in maintaining a healthy, balanced diet. He gets all his fiber from eating Magic cards for breakfast, and all his protein from eating Magic players for lunch.
Thoughtsieze- For certain. I don't think anyone would disagree with that sentiment. Its a powerful card for black control variants, if any would sprout in standard, to use in a heartbeat.
Chained to the Rocks- Likely to appear
in any deck variant using white. This card feels almost forced to just get more playable cards into the set. Edit: Maybe not every deck using white but those that can afford to namely W/R/x varients.Spear of Heliod- Will appear in white weanie decks everywhere.
Dissolve- Strictly better Cancel, and probably replaces Dissipate now since most graveyard shenanigans rotate out.
Hero's Downfall- When you've got to kill that pesky planeswalker. And there are two annoying ones in this set.
Firedrinker Satyr- Aggro decks lose some guys when standard comes around so I imagine this guy fills a slot that goes missing. Hes pretty good at the post-board-clear moments in the game due to his firebreathing ability.
Steam Augury- This card has already been put through the ringer by posters here and others, including pros, who like this card a lot. I see it making it into standard and modern, being a standout card.
Xenagos, the Reveler- This guy was designed for R/G. All his abilities are ridiculous.
Elspeth, Suns Champion- Shes expensive but her abilities make her worth paying. Her ultimate you can pretty much ignore because her +1 and -3 are what make her pretty damn awesome.
Stormbreath Dragon- I hear having haste, protection from white and flying, make this card the bane for most of white based control. This speaks of having repercussions in Modern and Standard Red aggro variants.
:symr::symu: Reality Bites
:symr::symu: Delver Cyclops
:symr::symu: Niv Control EDH
:symg::symw: Sigarda EDH
The real battle is not one of power but of will.
If your confidence breaks, so too shall you."
—Venser[/card]
Pretty much this^ except replace Spear of heliod with Anger of the Gods. Being only 1 of 2 good board wipes cheaper than 5 mana (Supreme Verdict being the other) this will see play in any midrange/control deck that runs red and even in some slower red aggro decks.
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
10) Hero's Downfall - Instant speed planeswalker kill is very strong.
9) Hammer of Purphoros - Gives red decks a huge late game/ability to recover from mana flood. Forces control decks to stabilize above six life, which can be difficult.
8) Firedrinker Satyr - A beastly little one drop that red has been wanting.
7) Chained to the Rocks - Best spot removal to come out in quite awhile, although vulnerable.
6) Thassa, God of the Sea - Scrying every upkeep is a very powerful thing. Possibly being a creature or making guys unblockable is just gravy.
5) Purphoros, God of the Forge - Really powerful damage engine.
4) Anger of the Gods - Strong sweeper that takes care of Voice of Resurgence along with other annoying guys.
3) Dissolve - Best counterspell in ages. Let's you dig for another.
2) Fleecemane Lion - A watchwolf at its worst, a nigh-unkillable monster at best.
1) Stormbreath Dragon - A solid replacement for the rotating Thundermaw Hellkite. I expect to see a lot of this guy.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion (the premier planeswalker of the set imo)
Hero's Downfall
Anger of the Gods
Heliod
Sylvan Caryatid
Purphoros
Stormbreath Dragon
Fleecemane Lion
Xenagos, the Reveler
Bow of Nylea
Polukranos
4/2 flash guy
In no real order
Left off reprints
Read the Bones and the scry force spike should also see play.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
Yes, perhaps in black. But blue? No. Blue has never had a card that does something like that. Blue will be able to take advantage of the scry better than any other color.
Read the Bones - probably one of the strongest cards printed in this set
Thoughtseize
Magma Jet
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Stormbreath Dragon
Fleecemane Lion
Swan Song will be a strong sideboard option against non-creature threats. Steam Augury will see casual/fringe play, but nothing serious.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
She is 3rd to 4th best God, not worth mentioning imo.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
My top 10:
10. Fleecemane Lion
9. Dissolve
8. Firedrinker Satyr
7. Polukranos, World Eater
6. Hammer of Purphoros
5. Soldier of the Pantheon
4. Scry lands
3. Thoughtseize
2. Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
The first nine probably require no explanation. My #1 choice will be more controversial, but I currently think Nykthos is the underhyped standout card of the set.
Honorable Mention:
Chained to the Rocks, Steam Augury - Strong cards but color requirements might keep them out of the spotlight
Phalanx Leader, Fabled Hero, Agent of Fates - Only if Heroic somehow becomes a thing in constructed
Rescue from the Underworld, Gift of Immortality, Nemesis of Mortals - Probably not role players just yet, but could become good with the right synergies
Anger of the Gods, Daxos of Meletis, Underworld Cerberus - All quite good but it isn't clear that the right deck type exists to take advantage of them
Xenagos, the Reveler - Just because he's probably the strongest card I didn't mention yet
About Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx:
What? I'm afraid you may have lost your mind. She's easily #2. White is slow, green doesn't do enough and black is limited to anti-lifegain. Scrying every turn? Oh yes, that is relevant for every blue deck. Blue doesn't want to miss a land drop for the first 8+ turns, she makes it possible.
She's good, but she needs a lot of board presence to be maximized. That's not really blue's forte. White, red, and green all come ahead of her in terms of reaching their full potential, and of those Purphoros is really the only one with obvious competitive implications in his color's archetypes.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
White and Red blow her out of the water. I could even see the Green one getting some play if Mono Green and/or R/G Ramp become a thing.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
have you played with the shrine at all? It's horrible needing 3 devotion, to break even and 4 for one mana gained. It's bad.
Dega midrange 1-0
You couldn't be more wrong. Blue wants nothing more than to draw what's needed for the given situation. Against control, it's more land. Against other decks, it's spells. Thassa allows for both to happen consistently. She doesn't need to be turned on to be useful for blue. Turn two Omenspeaker, turn three Thassa, turn four Supreme Verdict. I expect to see that very frequently in the new Standard.
Yes, I agree with red. But white? Really? He's slow as molasses. Standard isn't slowing down that much. Tokens will lose their relevancy when Lingering Souls goes the way of the Dodo. A 2/1 token every turn is strong, but not for four mana.
Every card you listed was black. Try to find something in blue. Yeah? Can't find anything? Thought so. Thassa is a digging machine. She'll find you what you want without any cost, unlike her black counterparts. Which are obviously more powerful, but less demanding. Being able to scry away something semi-useful (aka Azorius Charm) to dig for a Supreme Verdict is worth her minimal cost of three.
You're underestimating the power of a 5/5 or 5/6 indestructible creature. I can agree that blue (and every other color besides) does want nothing more than to draw into useful cards, but scrying isn't the same as drawing. While scry 1 every turn is nice and all, there are probably more competitive cards you can be casting on turn 3. I certainly don't see it being overwhelmingly powerful on its own, which is why you should be striving towards making full use out of her. White plays a lot of permanents, so the utility of Heliod goes up considerably compared to Thassa. I feel that makes him objectively better, if not simply more useful.
That having been said, I think she's going to be amazing in EDH.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
It's slowing down some and there will always be some form of a Control deck(s). This season's Control decks happen to be using White a lot. Control also likes it's mana sinks, and Vigilance is nice for the quicker decks. Heliod will turn in to a creature more often then Thassa too.
Tokens will still be a thing. There is some interesting and impressive brews happening in W/B/R for tokens.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
1. Thoughtseize
2. Anger of the gods
3. Polis Crusher
4. Bow of Nylea
5. Stormbreath Dragon
6. Hero's Downfall
7. Boon Satyr
8. Soldier of the Pantheon
9. Steam Augury
10. Coordinated Assault
WUBRGWBGURW
UBRGWURWBGU
BRGWUBGURWB
RGWUBRWBGUR
GWUBRGURWBG
It really is tho
Avacyn's Pilgrim
Arbor Elf
Flint-Hoof Boar
Hellrider
Geist of Saint Traft
Rancor
Invisible Stalker
Restoration Angel
Huntmaster of the Fells
Bonfire of the Damned
are all huge blows to aggressive strategies. Sphinx's Rev is still around, Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict, Azorius Charm, Jace, Architect of Thought, Far/Away, Turn/Burn, Warleader's Helix, Magma Jet, Anger of the Gods, Elspeth, Sun's Champion...it's going to be a tough time for aggro for a while.
Why would you play thassa over Read the Bones?
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
Note: Once again, I don't think this deck will be competitive and requires cards from the next sets to really take off.
Er... if you're not playing U/B?
That said, my predictions(Sans reprints, as Magma Jet and Thoughtseize will certainly see play):
1. Stormbreath Dragon. A suitable replacement for Thundermaw, and has a very relevent protection ability. I doubt the monstrous will come up, but honestly it's just gravy on the biscuit at that point.
2. Scry lands. They will see play, they are plenty good.
3. Purphorous. Great in aggro, hard to remove, and makes rallying after a board wipe much easier for several reasons.
4. Hammer of Purphorous. See above.
5. Sylvan Caryatid. A suitable replacement for Farseek most of the time; has uses in control builds to slow down aggro.
6. Whip of Erebos. This thing can get mean and fast in certain reanimator builds. Certainly Scooze and Rest in Peace hurt it a bit, but not so much that I think it's an unviable archetype.
7. Xenagos. He's pure upside, all the time. Two extremely relevant abilities to use when you get him out, and a third that is simply win-more.
8. Hero's Downfall. Obviously.
9. Firedrinker Satyr. The 1 drop RDW deservers and needs.
10. Dissolve. A very nifty card for control
Agreed that Scry 1 is very much worse than Scry 2 (but scry 2 would have been too much on her though) but it doesn't mean it's useless.
I don't think there's any doubt that Phyrexian Arena is better than Thassa in effect. However one is black and drains your life and the other Blue and has other possible applications.
Also consider her resilience as a 3-mana indestructible enchantment.
Comparison to Underworld Connections: Again comparing to a black card and one that even occupies one of your lands while still draining you and has no real resilience (in case enchantment/artifact hate is run as SB-options or even MB) while the other can only be removed through exile (we have 1 of those for enchantments now? and only in green) and has other applications.
In my reckoning the gods are ranked as follows:
1: Purphoros (obvious strong card that does what red wants)
2: Thassa (being cheaper and having that free scry while potentially making your dudes unblockable - for instance Tidebinder Mage, if that will be used)
3: Heliod (Token creator still seems alright for the control match-up)
4: Erebos (too narrow IMO and his draw can very easily be compared to Underworld Connections)
5: Nylea (the most boring of them all with the weirdest activated ability and I don't expect mono-green ramp to be a thing. We have two decent sweepers in Supreme Verdict and Anger of the Gods and also considering Mizzium Mortars. Black will easily be able to deny the devotion with Doom Blade and Hero's Downfall.)
Generally I figured to evaluate the gods purely on their performance without devotion and this is my verdict.
Thassa and Heliod are stronger as they have one ability not reliant on creatures. Thassa's is a constant scry 1, and Heliod is to make tokens (which in turn are vigilant, because of his reliant on creature effect). Post board-wipe both are at least capable of doing something to help you get back on your feet. Upping the playability of both.
Phossy bypasses that because he's looking to be built around, and already works very well with things Red likes to do. And Erebos has zero reliance on creatures but half of his effects either needs to be built around or they won't come up. And even if you run Orzhov colors you won't have enough 'they gain life' cards to make them worthwhile as a combo with him.
The only fun interaction in a Nylea creature feature is that you can turn Nylea + her Bow into Psuedo-Super Trample and force a lot of damage through.
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West