I've given up trying to identify Ashiok's gender. Their genitalia, if they even have any, aren't really important. Ashiok's character doesn't change if he's a male or if she's a female, or any other gender/sex identity.
I'm assuming instead of genitalia Ashiok just has more screaming smoke filled nightmares.
Ashiok is the hermaphroditic offspring of Kiku and Toshi. I expect it will be trying to turn Bolas's mind-rending abilities against him, judging from its affinity for nightmares.
Moderator Action: Verbal Warning
See that thing? Over there? That's the line. This joke crossed it.
It's fine for funny on-topic jokes, but this is pushing into spam.
Also, baseless speculation. And Kiku and Toshi are dead. For MILLENNIA now.
+1 even with an eye... I think they draw it with a face but was removed via-program
I doubt that. But hey, you can always ask them if it was originally a Returned. I vaguely saw it at first, but that outfit is hardly Greek, after looking at it.
Ashiok is the hermaphroditic offspring of Kiku and Toshi. I expect it will be trying to turn Bolas's mind-rending abilities against him, judging from its affinity for nightmares.
Moderator Action: Verbal Warning
See that thing? Over there? That's the line. This joke crossed it.
It's fine for funny on-topic jokes, but this is pushing into spam.
Also, baseless speculation. And Kiku and Toshi are dead. For MILLENNIA now.
~kaburi
This thread is about Ashiok. This post I'm quoting is speculation about Ashiok. It isn't baseless, either. Recall in Guardian: Saviours of Kamigawa: Kiku had been used as a subject for her jushi masters' revenge magic. McGough never elaborated on the full effects of the curse that befell Kiku when the tile containing it was broken (that was during the siege on Minamo, fighting Hidetsugu) So, there is a base for speculating that Ashiok is the offspring of Toshi and Kiku. Our inability to distinguish gender makes it equally likely that Ashiok is a hermaphrodite.
I doubt that. But hey, you can always ask them if it was originally a Returned. I vaguely saw it at first, but that outfit is hardly Greek, after looking at it.
This thread is about Ashiok. This post I'm quoting is speculation about Ashiok. It isn't baseless, either. Recall in Guardian: Saviours of Kamigawa: Kiku had been used as a subject for her jushi masters' revenge magic. McGough never elaborated on the full effects of the curse that befell Kiku when the tile containing it was broken (that was during the siege on Minamo, fighting Hidetsugu) So, there is a base for speculating that Ashiok is the offspring of Toshi and Kiku. Our inability to distinguish gender makes it equally likely that Ashiok is a hermaphrodite.
If I were joking, it would be on topic.
That isn't a basis. You're choosing to string unrelated information together, nearly the definition of being baseless.
There's no indication, even remotely to think Ashiok is related to anything that happened in Kamigawa. The exact reason you use to try to justify the speculation is the exact reason you can't use it. We don't know what effect it had, but we have no indication it had anything to do with this, and this is STILL ignoring the fact Kamigawa happened over a millenia ago on the timeline.
Further elaboration on this topic will end in further infractions. You've already had a warning.
I need definitive proof that Ashiok couldn't be related. Otherwise, its perfectly vallid speculation. Baseless speculation would be that Ashiok is related to Ramses Overdark, simply because they're both UB.
There's as much of a link between Ramses as there is to Kiku. Spam infraction issued.
I need definitive proof that Ashiok couldn't be related. Otherwise, its perfectly vallid speculation. Baseless speculation would be that Ashiok is related to Ramses Overdark, simply because they're both UB.
All I want is people to stop with baseless speculation guarded by their inability to understand why said speculation is baseless.
It isn't baseless. We know Toshi and Kiku had sex. We know Kiku had the Jushi wizards' curse unleashed toward the end of their assault on Hidetsugu. We know the events of Time Spiral allowed Night's Reach to traverse the planes. We know Ashiok is associated with shadowy nightmare stuff. So it is reasonable to speculate that Ashiok is the last in the Umezawa line. It gives Bolas a reason to be interested in Theros as well.
It isn't baseless. We know Toshi and Kiku had sex. We know Kiku had the Jushi wizards' curse unleashed toward the end of their assault on Hidetsugu. We know the events of Time Spiral allowed Night's Reach to traverse the planes. We know Ashiok is associated with shadowy nightmare stuff. So it is reasonable to speculate that Ashiok is the last in the Umezawa line. It gives Bolas a reason to be interested in Theros as well.
Let's break this down shall we.
"Toshi and Kiku had sex" - Alright then. So what?
Done. See? Everything beyond that is a baseless leap because we have no evidence of anything. See that word? That's the important one.
Done. See? Everything beyond that is a baseless leap because we have no evidence of anything. See that word? That's the important one.
So Kiku had the jushi masters' curse upon her afterward, and Night's Reach was able to traverse the planes during TSP Block. So Night's Reach could easily see Ashiok safely through the Mending, with Ashiok emerging as a neo-walker. That's what.
This thread is about Ashiok. This post I'm quoting is speculation about Ashiok. It isn't baseless, either. Recall in Guardian: Saviours of Kamigawa: Kiku had been used as a subject for her jushi masters' revenge magic. McGough never elaborated on the full effects of the curse that befell Kiku when the tile containing it was broken (that was during the siege on Minamo, fighting Hidetsugu) So, there is a base for speculating that Ashiok is the offspring of Toshi and Kiku. Our inability to distinguish gender makes it equally likely that Ashiok is a hermaphrodite.
If I were joking, it would be on topic.
...
Let me take a step back. There is NO, and I repeat, NO basis for us to think Ashiok is even remotely related to Kamigawa. First of all, we already have a Kamigawan walker--Tamiyo--and given we're not likely to return to Kamigawa any time soon, I doubt we're getting another one. Second, Ashiok is not a Japanese-inspired name. If anything, it's sanskrit. Third, Ashiok's appearance and manner of dress are more Indian/Hindu inspired than Japanese. Fourth, the absence of cis-normative gender indicators does not make two genders--if anything, it leans more towards asexual/genderless.
Your post is the very definition of baseless speculation. We have quite literally NO BASIS to believe that Ashiok is even remotely tied to Kamigawa. You have taken something completely unrelated to Ashiok (that Kiku was cursed) and tried to use that completely unrelated data point to extrapolate that Ashiok of the hermaphrodite offspring of Kiku and Toshi who is somehow working for Bolas.
Karlov Queen, the evidence you must provide is ANY REASON AT ALL that there is actual evidence that Ashiok is related in ANY WAY to even the world of Kamigawa, of which there is none.
Burden of Proof is not placed on the people to disprove you, but for YOU to prove that your theory holds weight. Which is doesn't, and appropriate actions will be taken to curtail this line of reasoning.
It is baseless, and deleterious to the health of the forum. It is unacceptable.
This discussion is not productive, and further pursuit of it will result in further infractions being handed out.
It's a big Multiverse. There's no reason Ashiok couldn't have been given that name by Night's Reach after she brought him through the Mending. Again, having become a 'walker, it is sensible that Ashiok would travel the planes and adopt the dress of that plane. Cis-blah is an invention of tumblr, so don't bring any soft science into our debate; that would be taking it off topic. Forgive my digression, there. Now then, we come back to the jushi curse: there's your explanation for Ashiok's hermaphroditism.
Karlov Queen, the evidence you must provide is ANY REASON AT ALL that there is actual evidence that Ashiok is related in ANY WAY to even the world of Kamigawa, of which there is none.
Burden of Proof is not placed on the people to disprove you, but for YOU to prove that your theory holds weight. Which is doesn't, and appropriate actions will be taken to curtail this line of reasoning.
It is baseless, and deleterious to the health of the forum. It is unacceptable.
This discussion is not productive, and further pursuit of it will result in further infractions being handed out.
It holds plenty of weight, based on the Kamigawa Block and Time Spiral Block novels. Don't be narrow-minded; a planeswalker being from Kamigawa doesn't relegate them to a Kamigawan name or dress.
It isn't baseless. We know Toshi and Kiku had sex. We know Kiku had the Jushi wizards' curse unleashed toward the end of their assault on Hidetsugu. We know the events of Time Spiral allowed Night's Reach to traverse the planes. We know Ashiok is associated with shadowy nightmare stuff. So it is reasonable to speculate that Ashiok is the last in the Umezawa line. It gives Bolas a reason to be interested in Theros as well.
...Night's Reach could travese the planes because of the rift at the Talon Gates, formed when Bolas engaged in the first planeswalker battle eons before Time Spiral. The events of Time Spiral sealed the rift, but not before Bolas was able to escape his Meditation Realm and hunt down Night's Reach. Night's Reach planeshifting was independent of Time Sprial's events.
"We know Ashiok is associated with shadowy nightmare stuff. So it is reasonable to speculate that Ashiok is the last in the Umezawa line."
If you're going to extrapolate that far, we could also say Ashiok is the offspring of Skellum and Braids, because they were both master dementia summoners who were associated with "shadowy nightmare stuff".
It holds plenty of weight, based on the Kamigawa Block and Time Spiral Block novels. Don't be narrow-minded; a planeswalker being from Kamigawa doesn't relegate them to a Kamigawan name or dress.
It does relegate them as being identifiably Kamigawan though.
When Tamiyo was spoiled they made a HUGE deal out of it.
What is the point of having a walker be from a well-known locale IF NO ONE NOTICES?
I'm assuming instead of genitalia Ashiok just has more screaming smoke filled nightmares.
Moderator Action: Verbal Warning
See that thing? Over there? That's the line. This joke crossed it.
It's fine for funny on-topic jokes, but this is pushing into spam.
Also, baseless speculation. And Kiku and Toshi are dead. For MILLENNIA now.
~kaburi
Second.
Does anyone really want to know what's going on down there?
Really?
If you do, good luck with that.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
I doubt that. But hey, you can always ask them if it was originally a Returned. I vaguely saw it at first, but that outfit is hardly Greek, after looking at it.
This thread is about Ashiok. This post I'm quoting is speculation about Ashiok. It isn't baseless, either. Recall in Guardian: Saviours of Kamigawa: Kiku had been used as a subject for her jushi masters' revenge magic. McGough never elaborated on the full effects of the curse that befell Kiku when the tile containing it was broken (that was during the siege on Minamo, fighting Hidetsugu) So, there is a base for speculating that Ashiok is the offspring of Toshi and Kiku. Our inability to distinguish gender makes it equally likely that Ashiok is a hermaphrodite.
If I were joking, it would be on topic.
Not from Theros. Therefore not Greek influenced.
That isn't a basis. You're choosing to string unrelated information together, nearly the definition of being baseless.
There's no indication, even remotely to think Ashiok is related to anything that happened in Kamigawa. The exact reason you use to try to justify the speculation is the exact reason you can't use it. We don't know what effect it had, but we have no indication it had anything to do with this, and this is STILL ignoring the fact Kamigawa happened over a millenia ago on the timeline.
Further elaboration on this topic will end in further infractions. You've already had a warning.
There's as much of a link between Ramses as there is to Kiku. Spam infraction issued.
THAT ISN'T HOW BURDEN OF PROOF WORKS!
All I want is the evidence contrary to my speculation. There's no need to raise your voice.
All I want is people to stop with baseless speculation guarded by their inability to understand why said speculation is baseless.
It isn't baseless. We know Toshi and Kiku had sex. We know Kiku had the Jushi wizards' curse unleashed toward the end of their assault on Hidetsugu. We know the events of Time Spiral allowed Night's Reach to traverse the planes. We know Ashiok is associated with shadowy nightmare stuff. So it is reasonable to speculate that Ashiok is the last in the Umezawa line. It gives Bolas a reason to be interested in Theros as well.
Let's break this down shall we.
"Toshi and Kiku had sex" - Alright then. So what?
Done. See? Everything beyond that is a baseless leap because we have no evidence of anything. See that word? That's the important one.
Exactly. But the person I quoted was insistent that Ashiok -was- a returned.
Plus, you know. Kiku's dead now. For Milennia.
So Kiku had the jushi masters' curse upon her afterward, and Night's Reach was able to traverse the planes during TSP Block. So Night's Reach could easily see Ashiok safely through the Mending, with Ashiok emerging as a neo-walker. That's what.
Well technically her being dead doesn't mean anything if the child was a walker before.....OH GOD WHY AM I JUSTIFYING THIS.
No. This is stupid. Can some sort of infinite cosmic multi-tendriled being come and stop this stupidity!?!
...
Let me take a step back. There is NO, and I repeat, NO basis for us to think Ashiok is even remotely related to Kamigawa. First of all, we already have a Kamigawan walker--Tamiyo--and given we're not likely to return to Kamigawa any time soon, I doubt we're getting another one. Second, Ashiok is not a Japanese-inspired name. If anything, it's sanskrit. Third, Ashiok's appearance and manner of dress are more Indian/Hindu inspired than Japanese. Fourth, the absence of cis-normative gender indicators does not make two genders--if anything, it leans more towards asexual/genderless.
Your post is the very definition of baseless speculation. We have quite literally NO BASIS to believe that Ashiok is even remotely tied to Kamigawa. You have taken something completely unrelated to Ashiok (that Kiku was cursed) and tried to use that completely unrelated data point to extrapolate that Ashiok of the hermaphrodite offspring of Kiku and Toshi who is somehow working for Bolas.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Well you got a point there. But it's silly regardless.
Do you see the problem with this line of argument?
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Burden of Proof is not placed on the people to disprove you, but for YOU to prove that your theory holds weight. Which is doesn't, and appropriate actions will be taken to curtail this line of reasoning.
It is baseless, and deleterious to the health of the forum. It is unacceptable.
This discussion is not productive, and further pursuit of it will result in further infractions being handed out.
It holds plenty of weight, based on the Kamigawa Block and Time Spiral Block novels. Don't be narrow-minded; a planeswalker being from Kamigawa doesn't relegate them to a Kamigawan name or dress.
...Night's Reach could travese the planes because of the rift at the Talon Gates, formed when Bolas engaged in the first planeswalker battle eons before Time Spiral. The events of Time Spiral sealed the rift, but not before Bolas was able to escape his Meditation Realm and hunt down Night's Reach. Night's Reach planeshifting was independent of Time Sprial's events.
"We know Ashiok is associated with shadowy nightmare stuff. So it is reasonable to speculate that Ashiok is the last in the Umezawa line."
If you're going to extrapolate that far, we could also say Ashiok is the offspring of Skellum and Braids, because they were both master dementia summoners who were associated with "shadowy nightmare stuff".
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
It does relegate them as being identifiably Kamigawan though.
When Tamiyo was spoiled they made a HUGE deal out of it.
What is the point of having a walker be from a well-known locale IF NO ONE NOTICES?
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.