All my stores play casual games of EDH. Now I can handle EDH for a little while, but I prefer the proper game of Magic much more. I can never find a player who wants to play Legacy anymore. The only time I would be able to find someone would be on a Tuesday night, about an hour before one of the store's Legacy Tournaments. Problem is I can never make it on a Tuesday night.
It just really bugs me, that I have been building all these cool amazing decks and I can't even play a single one. I'm tempted to just tell the EDH players to let me play my Legacy decks in place since I can't stand EDH format for too long. As you can see in my signature, all my decks are just collecting dust at the moment. This includes my Modern decks.
Has anyone experienced this before? Will it change? Will EDH die down or just continue to take over the casual meta?
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All my stores play casual games of EDH. Now I can handle EDH for a little while, but I prefer the proper game of Magic much more. I can never find a player who wants to play Legacy anymore. The only time I would be able to find someone would be on a Tuesday night, about an hour before one of the store's Legacy Tournaments. Problem is I can never make it on a Tuesday night.
It just really bugs me, that I have been building all these cool amazing decks and I can't even play a single one. I'm tempted to just tell the EDH players to let me play my Legacy decks in place since I can't stand EDH format for too long. As you can see in my signature, all my decks are just collecting dust at the moment. This includes my Modern decks.
Has anyone experienced this before? Will it change? Will EDH die down or just continue to take over the casual meta?
I don't want to come off like a jerk but you need to find a circle of friends that live in your area that likes to play legacy. I believe strongly that Legacy has a strong casual following (since the deck building rules is 60 cards). I've also believe EDH is the new vintage format and that also has a strong casual following. I play both EDH and Legacy and I wouldn't be surprised that if you asked some of your EDH friends that they too might have a legacy deck in the works.
I do believe some of the card prices are getting out of hand and it may drive away some of the casual potential players, if you need to tell them you welcome proxies.
I don't think EDH is going to die, I do believe the format is the new vintage because it allows the players to play some of the older cards without being bugged by speedy combos. (Yea, I'm one of the few that believe the storm mechanic killed Vintage - type 1) I do admit 100 cards is hard to get used, I still have problems with it myself but it does allow me to play cards that would be collecting dust, so you have to take the good with the bad.
60 card casual basically doesn't exist at this point, except at the kitchen table. You should try starting up a play group if that's what you're interested in.
I think that a lot of local Legacy events are casual-competitive, in that people run budgetized versions of established decks and probably don't do a ton of testing.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
If you cant find people that have legacy decks, I would recommend building multiple legacy decks that have a fun/interesting matchup against eachother and then asking people "do you want to play legacy?". When they say "Sorry I dont have a deck", you say, "barrow one of mine, it will be a fun matchup!". A lot of people, especially people who have never played legacy before, like doing this. It also gives them a little taste of the format and hopefully sparks their interest in building a deck of their own.
Legacy is not a causal format. People who have spent 40 bucks total on a deck are not going to want to play against a guy to whom 40 bucks is a card.
Also, on the 5tg there is a legacy torny on starting 10 am. Come along if you want to play. There is another in Feb too. That's as good as your going to get without coming along on a Tuesday.
It comes down to where you are. Around here I havent seen much EDH. But when I travel outside the local area I see the horrors wrought by this most exclusive of supposedly casual formats. People unable to play together because they have incompatible decks. The anti-social format which claims the title of "social" gameplay.
And its like an invasive species, virtually impossible to fully remove once its established a strong foothold in a new area.
But the resistance will continue! Fight for 60 cards! For everyone to be able to play at the same table regardless of format! A day may come when the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day! An hour of command zones and color restrictions, when the age of casual 60 card Magic comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! For all that you hold dear at your LGS, I bid you stand, players of 60 card Magic!
For what it's worth EDH can basically be 100 card legacy highlander. With that in mind it shouldn't be hard to find a compromise to find legacy players. Granted the 250 format was easily my favourite as well and our community here can be odd at times.
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Legacy is not a causal format. People who have spent 40 bucks total on a deck are not going to want to play against a guy to whom 40 bucks is a card.
Also, on the 5tg there is a legacy torny on starting 10 am. Come along if you want to play. There is another in Feb too. That's as good as your going to get without coming along on a Tuesday.
technically and originally Legacy or type 1.5 was a casual format. It was originally a format that nobody (outside the casual circle) that took it seriously enough to play. That's because of the old format rules (what is restricted in type 1 is banned). The format changed when DCI finally rotated dual lands out of extended... that's because all those extended players took their extended decks and played type 1.5. Things got screwy because you got players finally taking the format seriously and then it was soon discovered there was too many broken cards. Wizards (DCI) then was thinking for restricting type 1 cards to fix type 1.5. Type 1 players were worried because Mana Drain, Oath of Druids and Workshops were going to be restricted.
Well we should all know what happens next.
As for legacy being a casual format... I hate to break your balls but it's more casual then competitive. I don't think wizards wanted the format to be competitive because they are not reprinting Force of Will or other major staples.
Starcity is the one that's making Legacy competitive. It's not a bad thing but Starcity don't make magic cards so their support on the tournament is limited to the card pool.
Saddly, when Force of Will hits a 200 dollar mark (I know the card jumps up and down like a yo-yo) it'll act like a soft banning to the entry and I would believe more competitive players will shift to modern. I do think the banned list and the cost of cards are preventing this (so far both formats are equally costly).
Force of Will isn't on the reserve list. Neither is Wasteland. Those two important parts of Legacy gameplay are reprintable if/when Wizards feels like it.
I agree that EDH is mostly annoying. I typically only play at large events in with friends against strangers.
As a Legacy player, I am up for casual legacy play at any time and know many others who do the same regardless of deck budget levels. Love of the format is that strong. If we lost Legacy, I wouldn't play Magic anymore. I certainly wouldn't just play Modern and feel ok/happy about it.
My group has been playing Legacy rules casual for many years. We own most everything just because we have been collecting for so long, but proxies are fine. It's a blast. You are all invited. Especially you, Brent. But the commute from down under is a bit of a trek.
ya just got to find people that like the format man. i myself dont own real duals so i make due with shocks doesnt stop me from playing a format i like. the only real problem for someone getting into legacy is that anything blue is gonna set them back some money.
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Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
Force of Will isn't on the reserve list. Neither is Wasteland. Those two important parts of Legacy gameplay are reprintable if/when Wizards feels like it.
After 2 planechase sets and 2 commander sets and that crappy reanimator set. I've came to the conclusion that wizards will never reprint Force of Will or Wasteland because they don't want Legacy to be a competitive format.
I agree that EDH is mostly annoying. I typically only play at large events in with friends against strangers.
It's not that bad when you look at EDH as the New Vintage format. It's cool to play with cards like Necro, demonic tutor, sol ring without the worry of somebody playing storm.
As a Legacy player, I am up for casual legacy play at any time and know many others who do the same regardless of deck budget levels. Love of the format is that strong. If we lost Legacy, I wouldn't play Magic anymore. I certainly wouldn't just play Modern and feel ok/happy about it.
I don't think we'll lose legacy. The only thing is threaten is competitive non-proxy play. Casual players are always open to proxies. Most of my friends sold their stuff years ago, and I feel funny playing with a real Force of Will, dual lands or other cards that cost over 50 dollars, so I proxy all those cards and have fun with it. The only decks I have without proxies is my burn, dredge, elves, and a kabold deck.
What screwed up vintage is limited diversity and EDH opens the doors to vintage players. I don't think legacy will run into this problem.
I've found that a bit of organization is helpful if one wants to play more Legacy. There's probably a Facebook group or something already set up, and all you need to do is find it, join it, and start putting stuff together.
I posted something in the Boston Legacy FB group, one person responded online, then at the store 7 more people showed up. We could have sanctioned it as an event, but some of us happened to be playing in the store's concurrent Modern tournament.
I wouldn't consider Legacy to really be 'casual' at all though, 'casual' to me means decks constructed with mostly unplayable cards (like Elf decks with Wirewood Channeler and Wellwisher), intended for kitchen tables with gentleman's mulligan rules, optional deck cutting, and any number of players.
I don't see what could be thought "casual" about methodically tuning a $2,000+ deck against the tier decks of the format, waking up early in the morning to travel long distances, paying good money to pilot this in sanctioned play, with game losses for misregistered decklists, broadcast feature matches, with announcers in blazers. If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
My playgroups plays a lot of planechase as well as star, so legacy casual is pretty cool Most of my friends play Legacy as well as Modern
But I've gotta get into modern. One playgroup only has modern competitive decks that curb stomp 1v1
It's really fun to play casual multiplayer with 1v1 legacy decks. We've tried UW stoneblade + pox vs Modern aggro+ RG modern tron. Our decks we'rent turn one rolfstomp decks, so the games were pretty fun
If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
I wouldn't consider Legacy to really be 'casual' at all though, 'casual' to me means decks constructed with mostly unplayable cards (like Elf decks with Wirewood Channeler and Wellwisher), intended for kitchen tables with gentleman's mulligan rules, optional deck cutting, and any number of players.
lol casual don't mean playing bad cards and use silly land cheat rules.
This really depends on the circle of friends, but I believe most circles are mostly the same as the circle of friends I'm with.
We play casual as in for fun. We are not actually playing a deck in a tournament round, I'm not playing 5 of my friends that night to see if I have the best deck. I'm usually playing my deck a few games and we would switch decks or return playing with an earlier deck.
Deck building are usually based on a format rule, the reason behind this because we kitchen players don't want to make our own ban/restriction rules. Also some of us like to build decks and play them with others and it's hard to translate deck design with strangers.
I don't see what could be thought "casual" about methodically tuning a $2,000+ deck against the tier decks of the format, waking up early in the morning to travel long distances, paying good money to pilot this in sanctioned play, with game losses for misregistered decklists, broadcast feature matches, with announcers in blazers. If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
Usually casual circles allow unlimited proxies because we know magic cards can be costly.
To me casual play is allowing proxies within reason (i.e. 8 cards is fine, the whole deck is not), takebacks of technically incorrect plays and obvious errors, which is the default (for me) any time there's not money on the line, unless there's an agreement that 'this is a practice match, play as though it was under tournament conditions'.
Legacy works just fine for that style of play.
The main issue with finding Legacy games now is that competitive decks are so much better than budget decks (which are, in turn, so much better than 'personal pet' decks) that playing one category of deck against another is just not entertaining. Add in the fact that arguably the best budget deck (Burn) is brutally punishing of other budget decks (i.e. decks that use a Modern manabase instead of Revised duals) and also of most people's pet decks, and you get an unsatisfying experience in the format unless both players are equally competitive.
On the rare opportunity I get to play, we preanounce what format we will play, and chose a deck that meets the requirements. When it comes to legacy however, we generally have sub classifications. We decided that wasteland and force of will are what define the format for us - this version we call "wasteland legacy".
There's nothing more anoying than saying we are playing a best-of-3 in legacy, only to have my soldier deck (pretty good but requiring legacy legal cards) run into my Friend's sneak-and-show or RUG-Delver or vice-versa.
Now we start by asking if their deck is "legacy" or "wasteland legacy". "Dredge" and a few others fall into "wasteland legacy".
To me casual play is allowing proxies within reason (i.e. 8 cards is fine, the whole deck is not), takebacks of technically incorrect plays and obvious errors, which is the default (for me) any time there's not money on the line, unless there's an agreement that 'this is a practice match, play as though it was under tournament conditions'.
I currently don't mind a whole deck of proxies because my silly friends sold all their stuff years ago. Personally, I think they screwed themselves because the cards ended up tripling in value in a year after they sold the cards. The sad part is, one of my friends that sold their stuff was an official tournament judge.
Takebacks were seldom given when the player seemed distracted during play or when a player is playing with a not familiar deck (and boy I cringe when I loan out one of my decks to my friends and I see them play the cards incorrectly).
Usually we play as if we are in tournament conditions with the exceptions of time (because none of us are looking at the clock).
Legacy works just fine for that style of play.
The main issue with finding Legacy games now is that competitive decks are so much better than budget decks (which are, in turn, so much better than 'personal pet' decks) that playing one category of deck against another is just not entertaining. Add in the fact that arguably the best budget deck (Burn) is brutally punishing of other budget decks (i.e. decks that use a Modern manabase instead of Revised duals) and also of most people's pet decks, and you get an unsatisfying experience in the format unless both players are equally competitive.
I do agree burn is one of those good budget and competitive decks. I do think it really sticks it to those that are playing in a tournament with budget builds. I've sort of wish wizards would reprint dual lands. Dual lands is what pushed into the old type 1.5 format. But it seems odd to me to pay 50 to 100 dollars for a dual land when I bought them for 5 dollars a pop. I've sort of wished wizards EDH cards had dual lands reprints or a type of a dual land that worst then the a/b/u duals but better then shock lands. But I don't think it's going to happen because I do believe wizards don't want legacy to be a competitive format.
I do have a burn deck with sideboard just in case if I feel like to play in a real legacy tournament. I've also think burn is one of the fastest decks in the game, your are either going to win by turn 4 or lose. I like that because I really hate the length of the tournament scene.
I don't really build other budget decks with the intent for being budget, although my EDH decks seem like budget because the come in play tap duals seem correct to me because the decks and the game was intended to be slow. Pet decks are funny, I have a few Dredge, Enchantress and Stasis. Although, I don't play them at tournaments. Dredge is a difficult deck to pull off when players has anti-graveyard stuff. Enchantress usually has a turn that could take 20 minutes of play (I don't really want to spend that much time on the tournament table). Stasis is also a slow deck, I could get the lock in fast but it takes awhile before I get the kill card in play.
In general "casual legacy" for me/my friends is legacy with a psuedo-imposed $3-5 limit on cards, and normally a deck can be bought stock-and-barrel for about $10-20; $50 for a more spendy one.
We each have 5-10 decks at a time and it's usually multiplayer (though the occasional 1v1s exist.) This gives a lot of variety, people can come and go, and it makes it accessible without having a large budget. It's more of a gentlemen's agreement.
It helps to separate my legacy-viable ideas from my "fun decks" while keeping a non-degenerate format. Also, some cards that don't need to be banned, aren't. Mind Twist, Frantic Search, etc. Some of these cards are much worse when you add that money restriction.
There is/was a store nearby considering having $10 legacy; where cards worth over $10 can't be used; but the logistics of it (when not a gentlemen's agreement) is too hard to impose (prices change frequently. For instance, Obliterator would be legal a year ago, and has gone up 150-200%) I think that's the only reason there aren't more groups like that; because it's hard to keep up with.
Honestly, if you can get a card cheap, that agreement basically doesn't apply either; it's more like "economically feasible legacy" for the wider group.
As you can see from many of the responses, there are varying definitions of casual and casual Legacy. I personally see Legacy as a competitive format. It sounds like you want to play your competitive Legacy decks in a casual style (i.e. not in a tournament). You have to be careful, however. There are many players that would be rather peeved if you told them you were playing casual and then destroy their Allies or mono-black discard deck with a tier 1 Legacy deck. To me Casual Legacy is just Casual, the format that many people play using 60 card decks that are essentially Legacy legal but don't cost thousands of dollars. If you want to play competitive Legacy decks but not in a tournament, I suggest you set up a play group to do just that and allow proxies, or make good proxy decks of your own to lend to your opponent.
Some responses to other things I've seen in the thread:
Saying that EDH is somehow replacing--or even similar to--Vintage is ridiculous. Any fan of Vintage can tell you that the formats are vastly different and the joys of playing each are very different. EDH is replacing casual (as the OP is implying) if anything.
Also, Vintage has not been ruined by Storm. Storm is no more of a force in that format than it is in Legacy. Vintage struggles due to high costs and little support.
EDH is not going anywhere for some time. It is instead becoming the most popular format in Magic, period.
I would quit Magic if Legacy died off completely. It is again ridiculous to imply that Legacy players could just happily switch to Modern. It is not even close. I am not sure who fits in the niche for Modern but it certainly isn't most hardcore Legacy players.
As you can see from many of the responses, there are varying definitions of casual and casual Legacy. I personally see Legacy as a competitive format. It sounds like you want to play your competitive Legacy decks in a casual style (i.e. not in a tournament). You have to be careful, however. There are many players that would be rather peeved if you told them you were playing casual and then destroy their Allies or mono-black discard deck with a tier 1 Legacy deck. To me Casual Legacy is just Casual, the format that many people play using 60 card decks that are essentially Legacy legal but don't cost thousands of dollars. If you want to play competitive Legacy decks but not in a tournament, I suggest you set up a play group to do just that and allow proxies, or make good proxy decks of your own to lend to your opponent.
All magic is competitive in nature. I look at casual as playing the game for fun without being in a tournament. I like to bowl, play tennis and maybe play a game of football but I play these sports casually.
The reason why most kitchen table players play format rules because they are more balanced then house rules and you can find other players playing in the same format style.
I personally don't think the game should be defined by tournaments, and I'm starting to believe that wizards believes this too, otherwise they would reprint force of will, dual's and wastelands.
Some responses to other things I've seen in the thread:
Saying that EDH is somehow replacing--or even similar to--Vintage is ridiculous. Any fan of Vintage can tell you that the formats are vastly different and the joys of playing each are very different. EDH is replacing casual (as the OP is implying) if anything.
sorry but I see EDH as the new vintage because we have access to cards that are not legal in legacy. Also, the format is open to more deck designs then vintage...
Also, Vintage has not been ruined by Storm. Storm is no more of a force in that format than it is in Legacy. Vintage struggles due to high costs and little support.
actually the format was on a starting decline with the introduction of Urzas Block. But I do finger point at storm because that mechanical is too easy to abuse in the format. And deck design is limited. Sure you can make dredge with bazaars, oath, or something else but that's the most you can do. It's sometimes strange to see the average viewership on the vintage forum is usually in the single digits and it's been that way for years.
EDH is not going anywhere for some time. It is instead becoming the most popular format in Magic, period.
sounds like wishful thinking. I don't understand how that can be when wizards is making cards for the format.
I would quit Magic if Legacy died off completely. It is again ridiculous to imply that Legacy players could just happily switch to Modern. It is not even close. I am not sure who fits in the niche for Modern but it certainly isn't most hardcore Legacy players.
we will see what happens when force of will is 200 dollars a pop and duals are at 500 dollars each. I've personally thought I would never see that day but these cards are increasing in value and I know it's dual lands that brought players to type 1.5 (before it was called Legacy) and I think the over cost will eventually make the card into a soft banning. I've doubt legacy will have proxy tournaments.
On the other hand, if starcity is serious in keeping legacy tournaments around they must start printing proxies that are legal for starcity tournaments.
...
actually the format was on a starting decline with the introduction of Urzas Block. But I do finger point at storm because that mechanical is too easy to abuse in the format. And deck design is limited. Sure you can make dredge with bazaars, oath, or something else but that's the most you can do. It's sometimes strange to see the average viewership on the vintage forum is usually in the single digits and it's been that way for years.
...
Im not sure how you can really blame storm for anything in Vintage when the format is so dominated by MUD. MUD is somewhere around 20-25% of the overall meta just by itself. And even Fish decks make up at least as much of the vintage meta as storm. Its actually a pretty aggro control heavy format.
I'm not getting the argument that Increased demand -> Increased Prices = Shrinking player base -> Death of Format. You can argue that eventually no more people will be able to get into Legacy as lack of reprinting will lead to a cap at some point but that doesn't stop the players who already have the cards from playing or people who get out of the format from selling their cards and thus opening new spots...
If they want Legacy to grow then reprints and/or proxies would help but just maintaining the current level (with is still growing as the rising prices and tournament turnouts show) does not require that.
It just really bugs me, that I have been building all these cool amazing decks and I can't even play a single one. I'm tempted to just tell the EDH players to let me play my Legacy decks in place since I can't stand EDH format for too long. As you can see in my signature, all my decks are just collecting dust at the moment. This includes my Modern decks.
Has anyone experienced this before? Will it change? Will EDH die down or just continue to take over the casual meta?
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
I don't want to come off like a jerk but you need to find a circle of friends that live in your area that likes to play legacy. I believe strongly that Legacy has a strong casual following (since the deck building rules is 60 cards). I've also believe EDH is the new vintage format and that also has a strong casual following. I play both EDH and Legacy and I wouldn't be surprised that if you asked some of your EDH friends that they too might have a legacy deck in the works.
I do believe some of the card prices are getting out of hand and it may drive away some of the casual potential players, if you need to tell them you welcome proxies.
I don't think EDH is going to die, I do believe the format is the new vintage because it allows the players to play some of the older cards without being bugged by speedy combos. (Yea, I'm one of the few that believe the storm mechanic killed Vintage - type 1) I do admit 100 cards is hard to get used, I still have problems with it myself but it does allow me to play cards that would be collecting dust, so you have to take the good with the bad.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
I think that a lot of local Legacy events are casual-competitive, in that people run budgetized versions of established decks and probably don't do a ton of testing.
Also, on the 5tg there is a legacy torny on starting 10 am. Come along if you want to play. There is another in Feb too. That's as good as your going to get without coming along on a Tuesday.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
And its like an invasive species, virtually impossible to fully remove once its established a strong foothold in a new area.
But the resistance will continue! Fight for 60 cards! For everyone to be able to play at the same table regardless of format! A day may come when the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day! An hour of command zones and color restrictions, when the age of casual 60 card Magic comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! For all that you hold dear at your LGS, I bid you stand, players of 60 card Magic!
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
technically and originally Legacy or type 1.5 was a casual format. It was originally a format that nobody (outside the casual circle) that took it seriously enough to play. That's because of the old format rules (what is restricted in type 1 is banned). The format changed when DCI finally rotated dual lands out of extended... that's because all those extended players took their extended decks and played type 1.5. Things got screwy because you got players finally taking the format seriously and then it was soon discovered there was too many broken cards. Wizards (DCI) then was thinking for restricting type 1 cards to fix type 1.5. Type 1 players were worried because Mana Drain, Oath of Druids and Workshops were going to be restricted.
Well we should all know what happens next.
As for legacy being a casual format... I hate to break your balls but it's more casual then competitive. I don't think wizards wanted the format to be competitive because they are not reprinting Force of Will or other major staples.
Starcity is the one that's making Legacy competitive. It's not a bad thing but Starcity don't make magic cards so their support on the tournament is limited to the card pool.
Saddly, when Force of Will hits a 200 dollar mark (I know the card jumps up and down like a yo-yo) it'll act like a soft banning to the entry and I would believe more competitive players will shift to modern. I do think the banned list and the cost of cards are preventing this (so far both formats are equally costly).
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
I agree that EDH is mostly annoying. I typically only play at large events in with friends against strangers.
As a Legacy player, I am up for casual legacy play at any time and know many others who do the same regardless of deck budget levels. Love of the format is that strong. If we lost Legacy, I wouldn't play Magic anymore. I certainly wouldn't just play Modern and feel ok/happy about it.
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
After 2 planechase sets and 2 commander sets and that crappy reanimator set. I've came to the conclusion that wizards will never reprint Force of Will or Wasteland because they don't want Legacy to be a competitive format.
It's not that bad when you look at EDH as the New Vintage format. It's cool to play with cards like Necro, demonic tutor, sol ring without the worry of somebody playing storm.
I don't think we'll lose legacy. The only thing is threaten is competitive non-proxy play. Casual players are always open to proxies. Most of my friends sold their stuff years ago, and I feel funny playing with a real Force of Will, dual lands or other cards that cost over 50 dollars, so I proxy all those cards and have fun with it. The only decks I have without proxies is my burn, dredge, elves, and a kabold deck.
What screwed up vintage is limited diversity and EDH opens the doors to vintage players. I don't think legacy will run into this problem.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
I posted something in the Boston Legacy FB group, one person responded online, then at the store 7 more people showed up. We could have sanctioned it as an event, but some of us happened to be playing in the store's concurrent Modern tournament.
I wouldn't consider Legacy to really be 'casual' at all though, 'casual' to me means decks constructed with mostly unplayable cards (like Elf decks with Wirewood Channeler and Wellwisher), intended for kitchen tables with gentleman's mulligan rules, optional deck cutting, and any number of players.
I don't see what could be thought "casual" about methodically tuning a $2,000+ deck against the tier decks of the format, waking up early in the morning to travel long distances, paying good money to pilot this in sanctioned play, with game losses for misregistered decklists, broadcast feature matches, with announcers in blazers. If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
But I've gotta get into modern. One playgroup only has modern competitive decks that curb stomp 1v1
It's really fun to play casual multiplayer with 1v1 legacy decks. We've tried UW stoneblade + pox vs Modern aggro+ RG modern tron. Our decks we'rent turn one rolfstomp decks, so the games were pretty fun
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
Vintage??
lol casual don't mean playing bad cards and use silly land cheat rules.
This really depends on the circle of friends, but I believe most circles are mostly the same as the circle of friends I'm with.
We play casual as in for fun. We are not actually playing a deck in a tournament round, I'm not playing 5 of my friends that night to see if I have the best deck. I'm usually playing my deck a few games and we would switch decks or return playing with an earlier deck.
Deck building are usually based on a format rule, the reason behind this because we kitchen players don't want to make our own ban/restriction rules. Also some of us like to build decks and play them with others and it's hard to translate deck design with strangers.
Usually casual circles allow unlimited proxies because we know magic cards can be costly.
A butler would be interesting
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Legacy works just fine for that style of play.
The main issue with finding Legacy games now is that competitive decks are so much better than budget decks (which are, in turn, so much better than 'personal pet' decks) that playing one category of deck against another is just not entertaining. Add in the fact that arguably the best budget deck (Burn) is brutally punishing of other budget decks (i.e. decks that use a Modern manabase instead of Revised duals) and also of most people's pet decks, and you get an unsatisfying experience in the format unless both players are equally competitive.
On the rare opportunity I get to play, we preanounce what format we will play, and chose a deck that meets the requirements. When it comes to legacy however, we generally have sub classifications. We decided that wasteland and force of will are what define the format for us - this version we call "wasteland legacy".
There's nothing more anoying than saying we are playing a best-of-3 in legacy, only to have my soldier deck (pretty good but requiring legacy legal cards) run into my Friend's sneak-and-show or RUG-Delver or vice-versa.
Now we start by asking if their deck is "legacy" or "wasteland legacy". "Dredge" and a few others fall into "wasteland legacy".
I currently don't mind a whole deck of proxies because my silly friends sold all their stuff years ago. Personally, I think they screwed themselves because the cards ended up tripling in value in a year after they sold the cards. The sad part is, one of my friends that sold their stuff was an official tournament judge.
Takebacks were seldom given when the player seemed distracted during play or when a player is playing with a not familiar deck (and boy I cringe when I loan out one of my decks to my friends and I see them play the cards incorrectly).
Usually we play as if we are in tournament conditions with the exceptions of time (because none of us are looking at the clock).
I do agree burn is one of those good budget and competitive decks. I do think it really sticks it to those that are playing in a tournament with budget builds. I've sort of wish wizards would reprint dual lands. Dual lands is what pushed into the old type 1.5 format. But it seems odd to me to pay 50 to 100 dollars for a dual land when I bought them for 5 dollars a pop. I've sort of wished wizards EDH cards had dual lands reprints or a type of a dual land that worst then the a/b/u duals but better then shock lands. But I don't think it's going to happen because I do believe wizards don't want legacy to be a competitive format.
I do have a burn deck with sideboard just in case if I feel like to play in a real legacy tournament. I've also think burn is one of the fastest decks in the game, your are either going to win by turn 4 or lose. I like that because I really hate the length of the tournament scene.
I don't really build other budget decks with the intent for being budget, although my EDH decks seem like budget because the come in play tap duals seem correct to me because the decks and the game was intended to be slow. Pet decks are funny, I have a few Dredge, Enchantress and Stasis. Although, I don't play them at tournaments. Dredge is a difficult deck to pull off when players has anti-graveyard stuff. Enchantress usually has a turn that could take 20 minutes of play (I don't really want to spend that much time on the tournament table). Stasis is also a slow deck, I could get the lock in fast but it takes awhile before I get the kill card in play.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
We each have 5-10 decks at a time and it's usually multiplayer (though the occasional 1v1s exist.) This gives a lot of variety, people can come and go, and it makes it accessible without having a large budget. It's more of a gentlemen's agreement.
It helps to separate my legacy-viable ideas from my "fun decks" while keeping a non-degenerate format. Also, some cards that don't need to be banned, aren't. Mind Twist, Frantic Search, etc. Some of these cards are much worse when you add that money restriction.
There is/was a store nearby considering having $10 legacy; where cards worth over $10 can't be used; but the logistics of it (when not a gentlemen's agreement) is too hard to impose (prices change frequently. For instance, Obliterator would be legal a year ago, and has gone up 150-200%) I think that's the only reason there aren't more groups like that; because it's hard to keep up with.
Honestly, if you can get a card cheap, that agreement basically doesn't apply either; it's more like "economically feasible legacy" for the wider group.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
Some responses to other things I've seen in the thread:
Saying that EDH is somehow replacing--or even similar to--Vintage is ridiculous. Any fan of Vintage can tell you that the formats are vastly different and the joys of playing each are very different. EDH is replacing casual (as the OP is implying) if anything.
Also, Vintage has not been ruined by Storm. Storm is no more of a force in that format than it is in Legacy. Vintage struggles due to high costs and little support.
EDH is not going anywhere for some time. It is instead becoming the most popular format in Magic, period.
I would quit Magic if Legacy died off completely. It is again ridiculous to imply that Legacy players could just happily switch to Modern. It is not even close. I am not sure who fits in the niche for Modern but it certainly isn't most hardcore Legacy players.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
All magic is competitive in nature. I look at casual as playing the game for fun without being in a tournament. I like to bowl, play tennis and maybe play a game of football but I play these sports casually.
The reason why most kitchen table players play format rules because they are more balanced then house rules and you can find other players playing in the same format style.
I personally don't think the game should be defined by tournaments, and I'm starting to believe that wizards believes this too, otherwise they would reprint force of will, dual's and wastelands.
sorry but I see EDH as the new vintage because we have access to cards that are not legal in legacy. Also, the format is open to more deck designs then vintage...
actually the format was on a starting decline with the introduction of Urzas Block. But I do finger point at storm because that mechanical is too easy to abuse in the format. And deck design is limited. Sure you can make dredge with bazaars, oath, or something else but that's the most you can do. It's sometimes strange to see the average viewership on the vintage forum is usually in the single digits and it's been that way for years.
sounds like wishful thinking. I don't understand how that can be when wizards is making cards for the format.
we will see what happens when force of will is 200 dollars a pop and duals are at 500 dollars each. I've personally thought I would never see that day but these cards are increasing in value and I know it's dual lands that brought players to type 1.5 (before it was called Legacy) and I think the over cost will eventually make the card into a soft banning. I've doubt legacy will have proxy tournaments.
On the other hand, if starcity is serious in keeping legacy tournaments around they must start printing proxies that are legal for starcity tournaments.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Im not sure how you can really blame storm for anything in Vintage when the format is so dominated by MUD. MUD is somewhere around 20-25% of the overall meta just by itself. And even Fish decks make up at least as much of the vintage meta as storm. Its actually a pretty aggro control heavy format.
If they want Legacy to grow then reprints and/or proxies would help but just maintaining the current level (with is still growing as the rising prices and tournament turnouts show) does not require that.