Played in a small 14 man tournament, here's the results.
Round 1: Death and Taxes - Lose 0-2
Game one I get completely mana flooded drawing up 11 of the decks 18 lands. Very miserable way to start the night. Game two actually gets quite drawn out, sadly I see no delvers, a Mirran crusader with an active mom does me in eventually. This is my worst match up, I really need some advice on playing DnT.
Round 2: Miracles - Win 2-1
Game one I kill him so fast I wasn't even sure what he was playing. 2 stifles and a wasteland left him no lands and no spells were played. Game 2 I finally see what I'm playing. He lands a stoneforge on me and batterskull beats my face in. Game 3 I board since I know what he's on now. T1 needle on top, I counter his counterbalance, and stifle the RIP he boarded in. 2 mongooses beat him to death.
Round 3: Shardless BUG - Win 2-0
Game 1 guess he gambled, didn't know what I was on. He plays a fetch for a bayou, casts deathrite. My turn I bolt deathrite. His turn plays no land and casts another deathrite which I daze. After my wasteland he casts no land; a Goyf accompanied with 2 more bolts finishes the match. Game 2 he mulls to 5, I keep a hand with 3 stifle, 1 waste, a trop, brainstorm and goose. I stifle both fetches he has, get threshold on goose and finish him off.
Round 4: Omni-Tell - Win 2-0
Game 1 was just a beat down. I waste 2 of his volcs, and stifle a fetch. He's left sitting there and beating by 2 flipped delvers. Game 2 I bring in my single emerakul in my board lol..... I mull to 5 and draw the emerakul.. his T2 he casts show and tell which I'm happy to see. He plays emerakul, and to his surprise I drop mine hahaha. It was priceless. Won the round in about 5 minutes.
I feel comfortable in a lot of matches, its just Death and Taxes seems to beat me more often than not. I need some advice on how to approach this match up.
Whats your deck list? I have a sulfur elemental and 2 rough // tumble against DnT. Also pithing needle has a lot of targets. I even board in sulfur elemental against combo decks just so i can play a threat at instant speed on their end step.
As a veteran DnT player, I'll share this because I love RUG, and feel bad for players who faceoff vs. DnT. It is possible to win, but you do need a close-to-nuts hand.
Double-Delver is the best way to win, though recently DnT has adopted a more flyer-heavy strategy. You do want to go for the quick kill. An opening grip with 2 or more non-Probe cantrips is not ideal, since a resolved Thalia makes them pretty sub-par.
The rare threat of a lone Cavern of Souls aside, Daze is often the best weapon. I know to play around it, but RUG has a way of creating a sense of urgency for the DnT player to stabilize, sometimes forcing me to abandon the "never tap out to play a spell" rule. Make this happen.
I'd also recommend using FoW on Plowshares as the best option, especially if the DnT player let himself get hit by Delver once or twice, and is trying to cast out out of Daze or Spell Pierce range. If you see this behavior, Force that StP targeting your Delver. It could mean the difference between squeaking out a win or a long, drawn-out loss. Play aggro as much as possible over tempo, overall.
One thing I'm curious about is do anyone play a basic land in their deck in case of things like bblood moon or other hate cards? Burn style decks are sometimes showing up in this area which I never have a problem with but blood moon is a huge pain and pretty much locks me out of the game when it resolves. Outside countering it, how do you guys deal with that?
Sounds like you're seeing a lot of Blood Moon in your area, so a basic Island might be the right meta call for you. I haven't seen much of that card in Legacy, and I don't believe it's especially popular in the format as a whole, which is probably why people aren't factoring it in.
I very much disagree about boarding pierces. countering Liliana, REBs, sylvan library, etc. Is very important. any good player plays around daze, so I'm not sure they are worthy of being included at all
Against Jund, I go OTP: -4 Force of Will, +3 Submerge, +1 Life from the Loam
OTD: -4 Force of Will, -2 Daze, +3 Submerge, +1 Spell Pierce, +2 Rough//Tumble
I don't like Surgical Extraction in the matchup because Punishing Fire isn't really that amazing against us, so I don't see the point of worrying about it. Another reason is that the matchup is so grindy that I don't think we can afford to have spells in our deck that don't somehow impact the board.
I am generally afraid of them getting the punishing fire engine online because then we can't break a stalemate with a delver and most assuredly lose the goyf war. Maybe on the play it's not necessary but as you said its so grindy I don't want to get locked out of the game.
Between Bolt and Abrupt Decay, we can't break a stalemate with a Delver anyway, and Goyf is also pretty bad against the latter; our best creature in the matchup is Nimble Mongoose, so I always play with that fact in mind; I save bolts for Shaman, I save submerges for Goyf, I save pierces for Lily, and I save brainstorm for their discard spells...if our deck is doing what it is supposed to, they'll be afraid to play Bob, and they won't have the mana to play Bloodbraid. I just haven't had Punishing Fire make too much of an impact to where I am hoping to extract them. Jund is a deck of built-in 2-for-1's, so I don't like the thought of having cards that 2-for-1 me like Force of Will and Surgical Extraction in my deck after boarding, as it makes their cards even better.
I hear what you're saying, but knowing you won't get waste locked out of the game or that your delvers are going to be safe punishing fire is good. If they are Abrupt Decaying your delver instead of a Goyf, I'd say that is a win.
I'm thinking of dropping 2 probes and adding a spell pierce and a spell snare. I'm always happy to see either of those cards, but unless probe is in your opener I don't really care for it. That would give me a mix of 3 stifle, 3 snare, and 3 pierce, with 5 burn spells. I just like the idea of having so many business spells. My only worry is running 3 stifles instead of 4, because with the probes you can know what to stifle better. Three spell snare may be a bit high, but damn, that card rocks.
Yeah, I've been finding myself wanting to fit a third Snare back in my list lately as well, but I don't really want to cut anything for it; the only logical cut for me would be one of the two Fire//Ice's, but I like having two even though most people play one nowadays...and to be fair, it can clearly be seen in my feature match in Atlanta from February that I boarded in Surgical Extraction for Game 3 against my Jund opponent, and ended up extracting his Wastelands at some point during the game, so one could say my words contradict my actions; I just realize in retrospect that it sat in my hand doing next to nothing, while the two Submerges I drew were actually what caused me to win the game...I'm not trying to claim to be all-knowledgeable, so I feel like if you like having Extraction against Jund, do what works for you; I just personally don't like the card in the matchup.
3 options:
We counter it
We go all in with the creatures we have on the board
We concede cause we have no board
Be thankfull that the opponend is playing a 3 mana spell which isn't uncounterable, pierce it, it's free tempo. Don't play a basic, it's just bad in tresh.
The decks that are playing Bloodmoon are usually non-creature decks so postside you should have a ton of counter for it.
If you really have a lot of burn in your meta, just play something like a Zuran orb in your side.
Thanks for the input, Im still really new to this deck and certainly need a ton of practice. I'm also wondering about first turn plays quite a lot... do you always try to play the Delver first if you have it or is it better to leave mana open for a Spell Pierce or Stifle? Obviously a Daze in hand makes the decision so much easier but I often question myself on what the proper play is.
Another question - is there a general consensuses of Forked Bolt VS Fire//Ice? Seems a lot of people are running the Bolt lately but I think Fire//Ice was the previously ran card of choice. Just wondering if the mana cost beat out the versatility... I noticed in this deck your mana starved a lot, simply because there's just so much stuff you can do on any given turn... perhaps that factored into it?
Thanks for the input, Im still really new to this deck and certainly need a ton of practice. I'm also wondering about first turn plays quite a lot... do you always try to play the Delver first if you have it or is it better to leave mana open for a Spell Pierce or Stifle? Obviously a Daze in hand makes the decision so much easier but I often question myself on what the proper play is.
Unless I know I am playing against a combo deck I will pretty much always play turn 1 Delver. That is what this deck wants to do. I don't always play turn 1 mongoose because often times it can't even attack the first turn because it will die.
Another question - is there a general consensuses of Forked Bolt VS Fire//Ice? Seems a lot of people are running the Bolt lately but I think Fire//Ice was the previously ran card of choice. Just wondering if the mana cost beat out the versatility... I noticed in this deck your mana starved a lot, simply because there's just so much stuff you can do on any given turn... perhaps that factored into it?
I want all my burn spells to be CMC 1. I like to be able to dispose of 1 drops when I'm on the draw (primarily DRS and Mom)
Thanks for the input, Im still really new to this deck and certainly need a ton of practice. I'm also wondering about first turn plays quite a lot... do you always try to play the Delver first if you have it or is it better to leave mana open for a Spell Pierce or Stifle? Obviously a Daze in hand makes the decision so much easier but I often question myself on what the proper play is.
Another question - is there a general consensuses of Forked Bolt VS Fire//Ice? Seems a lot of people are running the Bolt lately but I think Fire//Ice was the previously ran card of choice. Just wondering if the mana cost beat out the versatility... I noticed in this deck your mana starved a lot, simply because there's just so much stuff you can do on any given turn... perhaps that factored into it?
For the first question, it really depends on what you're playing against and if you are on the play or draw; on the play, if you have a Daze and a Delver, you always play the Delver (even without Daze, it is usually correct to play Delver turn 1 if you are on the play), whereas on the draw, playing a turn 1 Delver could be risky depending on what they are playing.
As for the second question, nobody has truly solved the Forked Bolt vs. Fire//Ice, vs. Chain Lightning debate because it truly comes down to personal preference, as each has its pros and cons. Forked Bolt allows a possible 2-for-1 for 1 mana, the con being that it is a sorcery. Fire//Ice offers more diversity in terms of tempo plays, since you can, at instant speed, tap down an opposing Goyf or Port a land in the upkeep, while still having the 2-for-1 option of Forked Bolt if you need that instead; the con is that it costs 2 mana, and this deck really only likes 0-1-mana spells. Chain Lightning allows you to play 6 Lightning Bolts in your deck, which allows for more chances to draw the extra reach needed to finish the opponent before they can stabilize; the con is that it is awkward against other decks packing red, as you have to play it when they don't have RR available to copy it and kill your Delver.
Thanks for the replies guys. I'll stop hesitating so much about playing Delver 1st turn against non combo decks - I just find he gets zapped so quickly when he hits the field, but I guess that's baiting their removal spell as well. Following it up with a T2 Tarmogoyf is pretty sweet in it's own right - but I always wish I could spell pierce their removal spell rather than watch my Delver get binned to the GY.
I guess - I have to learn to play more aggressively, I think, as that's generally the problem. I want to be defensive but I really shouldn't be as most things don't hurt me in the first turn or two, especially on the play. Combo decks are also pretty rampant here - Elves and ANT especially - so it's trying to find a good balance on how to play and what to do in those situations. Combo seriously sucks pre-sideboarding, though there's games I can keep them off their land count enough to win but it's tough racing or even really disrupting them in general.
Either way, I absolutely love this deck. I've read a lot of this thread over the past few weeks, a lot of great feedback and information from everyone. <3 Really good read, it's almost like 136 pages isn't enough haha
Yeah, this is one of the most proactive decks in the format, and it wants to lock the opponent in the early turns long enough to bring their life total to zero, so playing aggressive is a must, because this deck loses if the opponent is able to start resolving their 3+ cmc cards, and the longer the game goes, the higher the chances are that they will be able to do so.
Small tournament report from a couple nights ago. 14 players.
Went 3-0-1
Round 1: Punishing Jund 2-0. He never had a stable mana base in either games, stifle/wasteland kept him back. Bolted the only shaman he landed.
Round 2: Maverick 2-0. Game one I won by chumping out goyfs to his mega knights while 2 Delvers flew over for the win. Game 2 he mulled to 5; wastelanded both mana sources.
Round 3: U/R Delver 2-1. Game one completely crushed his sternum, had 3 active delvers bombing him. Game 2 I mulled to 5 keeping a no lander with ponder/goyf/brainstorm/delver/goose. Drew a land and was 1 turn away from killing him with a goyf, but catching 3 bolts to the face on consecutive turns killed me, along with a active grim. Game 3 turns into a long game that leaves us both with no hands. I top deck 2 nimble mongooses in a row and ride them for the win.
Round 4: Elves. Draw 1st place
Very happy with the way the deck was running. Spell Snare turned into an all star against mav and U/R delver. Both players walked right into them, it made young pyromancer and thalia worthless. In both rounds neither hit the board.
Small tournament report from a couple nights ago. 14 players.
Went 3-0-1
Round 1: Punishing Jund 2-0. He never had a stable mana base in either games, stifle/wasteland kept him back. Bolted the only shaman he landed.
Round 2: Maverick 2-0. Game one I won by chumping out goyfs to his mega knights while 2 Delvers flew over for the win. Game 2 he mulled to 5; wastelanded both mana sources.
Round 3: U/R Delver 2-1. Game one completely crushed his sternum, had 3 active delvers bombing him. Game 2 I mulled to 5 keeping a no lander with ponder/goyf/brainstorm/delver/goose. Drew a land and was 1 turn away from killing him with a goyf, but catching 3 bolts to the face on consecutive turns killed me, along with a active grim. Game 3 turns into a long game that leaves us both with no hands. I top deck 2 nimble mongooses in a row and ride them for the win.
Round 4: Elves. Draw 1st place
Very happy with the way the deck was running. Spell Snare turned into an all star against mav and U/R delver. Both players walked right into them, it made young pyromancer and thalia worthless. In both rounds neither hit the board.
I've been playing with 2 copies of Spell Snare lately too and really like it. Can't believe I dismissed it originally when I was building it, much more useful than Gitaxian Probe IMO.
Are you guys now running the 2/2/2 Pierce/Snare/Forked Bolt package right now? That's what I'm trying currently and its' working nicely but there's times I want a 3rd spell pierce and simply just don't have room to fit it in.
Also, is there a reason why people aren't dividing up their fetches to include Woodland Foothills? Just seems to make sense, in the off chance someone uses a Pithing Needle.
I use Wooded Foothills simply because people won't put you on RUG if you play one and leave it uncracked. Wooded Foothills -> stifle is a great play. I know others use 4x Flooded Strand and 4x Polluted delta to give the illusion of playing stoneblade.
Playing around Pithing Needle is not relevant with this deck, simply because why would someone be enticed to play a pithing needle against RUG? Even if they did, it would be a deck like 12 post naming Wasteland.
I don't play RUG, but I enjoy sideboarding against it, and I'm wondering how people who play it would rate their fear of Chalice of the Void and Relic of Progenitus.
Fear of Chalice is very high. Chalice on one stops most of our threats and all our tools to dig for answers. Relic on the other can be stifled or you have to stay ahead of it. I hate playing against Rest in Peace personally but even that can be played around.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Little angel, go away come again some other day the Devil has my ear today I'll never hear a word you say. He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind. Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
4-2 (11th place) RUG DELVER
Legacy Wars XIII (wasnt sure yet with the count...around 30-40 players), missing the TOP 8 with a lower tiebreak.
(grats to my team8s kitz-4th (monou-omni), wilson-5th (elves) and renz-9th (bugtempo), a good start indeed for TEAMBUDGET, although we fell short, we managed to insert ourselves in the top 16.
4 force of will
4 stifle
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 daze
3 spell pierce
4 lightning bolt
2 tarfire
1 f/ice
4 delver of secrets
3 nimble mongoose
4 tarmogoyf
1 true name nemesis
3 wooded foothills
2 scalding tarn
1 polluted delta
2 flooded strand
3 tropical island
3 volcanic island
4 wasteland
SB changes from my previous SB - 1 snare, - 1 ancient grudge, -1 surgical extraction / + 1 destructive revelry, 1 ptithing needle, 1 grafdiggers cage
i saw many uwr tnn.decs and miracles before the start for the mentioned SB adjustments....
R1 (0-2) vs ANT
misread his deck as he was a long time tempo player...kept a counter light hand with 2delvers and some burn that didnt helped me when he combo's off.. game 2 i wasnt able to draw sufficient lands to support my counters, by the time i put in a clock vs him...that was it.
R2 (1-2) vs BNW tokens
managed to win game1, via stifle/waste...game 2 was horrible i wasnt able to draw any creature, game 3 when i boarded back in dazes vs lingering souls...none of them showed up! i was able to slow him up...pithing needle on polluted delta (he uses 4) and kept him at 2 lands for a long period of time, until he draws his basics..delvers showed up, but i was just wasnt able to protect them and even 3 pierce md wasnt enough.
R3 (2-1) vs BANT TNN
game1 i was able to cut him off impt colors to slow him down, boarded in 3 reb effects as i was anticipating tnns...then kotrs landed and had no answer when i didnt include in the submerges. game 3 was a bit grindy but the inclusion of the submerges here, really helped. a resolved TNN on my opponents battlefield slowed my 2 goyfs until i draw the TARFIRE, making it 5/6, landed another goyf..i over committed on this part, he drew a noble hierarch and at down to 6 where he can block my 2 goyfs, he would still be at 1 on his turn...i drew a submerge targeting the noble for lethal...his next card would be SUPREME VERDICT.
R4 (2-0) vs ELVES
OTP played a one-lander...flooded strand/daze/daze/bolt/bolt/delver/ponder.....delver home run!. game 2 i managed to draw an early graf, after the game he showed me 2 natural orders, 2 GSZ that was blanked by the cage...Rough on the middle part of the game sealed it off as i had 2 "tarfire-pumped" goyfs on the field.
R5 (2-0) vs UG Infect
7 burn spells made me confident vs this deck...burned everything at EoT, so he cant go off on his attack phase or made him use his pumps just to protect his crits when he cant attack..countered 2 needles naming wastelands on game2 was the key.
R6 (2-0) vs BANT TNN
grindy game 1 as we fought for every creature to put in the board..i managed to sneak in a lone threshed goose and that was it, by the time he landed a TNN and nearing lethal, i managed to draw additional threats. game 2 he mulled at 6 OTP, windswept-trops-gsz-dryad....i wasted the trop and praying that it was his only land...on his turn he attacked and passed and knew that was it. tarfired the dryad and from there i managed to control the board. ancient grudge helped alot by destroying a resolved relic and a jitte afterwards.
Glad i went on a streak after a horrible start. Ater round 2 when im 0-2, i really had nothing to lose except experience if i quit. sleeving up burn heavy RUG helped me on this tourney, i just wasnt expecting lingering souls anymore and benched my sulfurs. won several packs and had a good dinner before home with some friends. Was indeed very happy with my current list. I saw 1 RUG in the top8 being crushed by UWR patriot...hate seeing a fellow RUG facing multiple TNNs, can't afford to finish watching the game and decided to go. thanks guys for reading! GO TEAMBUDGET!
Round 1: Death and Taxes - Lose 0-2
Game one I get completely mana flooded drawing up 11 of the decks 18 lands. Very miserable way to start the night. Game two actually gets quite drawn out, sadly I see no delvers, a Mirran crusader with an active mom does me in eventually. This is my worst match up, I really need some advice on playing DnT.
Round 2: Miracles - Win 2-1
Game one I kill him so fast I wasn't even sure what he was playing. 2 stifles and a wasteland left him no lands and no spells were played. Game 2 I finally see what I'm playing. He lands a stoneforge on me and batterskull beats my face in. Game 3 I board since I know what he's on now. T1 needle on top, I counter his counterbalance, and stifle the RIP he boarded in. 2 mongooses beat him to death.
Round 3: Shardless BUG - Win 2-0
Game 1 guess he gambled, didn't know what I was on. He plays a fetch for a bayou, casts deathrite. My turn I bolt deathrite. His turn plays no land and casts another deathrite which I daze. After my wasteland he casts no land; a Goyf accompanied with 2 more bolts finishes the match. Game 2 he mulls to 5, I keep a hand with 3 stifle, 1 waste, a trop, brainstorm and goose. I stifle both fetches he has, get threshold on goose and finish him off.
Round 4: Omni-Tell - Win 2-0
Game 1 was just a beat down. I waste 2 of his volcs, and stifle a fetch. He's left sitting there and beating by 2 flipped delvers. Game 2 I bring in my single emerakul in my board lol..... I mull to 5 and draw the emerakul.. his T2 he casts show and tell which I'm happy to see. He plays emerakul, and to his surprise I drop mine hahaha. It was priceless. Won the round in about 5 minutes.
I feel comfortable in a lot of matches, its just Death and Taxes seems to beat me more often than not. I need some advice on how to approach this match up.
RUG
Enchantress
My deck list is run of the mill. I use 3 probes and 2 spell pierces main deck.
RUG
Enchantress
Double-Delver is the best way to win, though recently DnT has adopted a more flyer-heavy strategy. You do want to go for the quick kill. An opening grip with 2 or more non-Probe cantrips is not ideal, since a resolved Thalia makes them pretty sub-par.
The rare threat of a lone Cavern of Souls aside, Daze is often the best weapon. I know to play around it, but RUG has a way of creating a sense of urgency for the DnT player to stabilize, sometimes forcing me to abandon the "never tap out to play a spell" rule. Make this happen.
I'd also recommend using FoW on Plowshares as the best option, especially if the DnT player let himself get hit by Delver once or twice, and is trying to cast out out of Daze or Spell Pierce range. If you see this behavior, Force that StP targeting your Delver. It could mean the difference between squeaking out a win or a long, drawn-out loss. Play aggro as much as possible over tempo, overall.
4x Nimble Mongoose
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
3x Stifle
2x Gitaxian Probe
2x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
1x Forked Bolt
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Volcanic Island
3x Tropical Island
1x Pithing Needle
1x Life from the Loam
1x Flusterstorm
1x Sulfur Elemental
3x Submerge
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Rough // Tumble
1x Grafdigger’s Cage
2x Surgical Extraction
Against Jund I went
On the draw
out: 2 probe, 3 daze, 3 FoW
in: 3 submerge, 2 rough // tumble, 1 LtfL, 2 Surgical
On the play
out: 2 probe, 2 daze, 3 FoW
in: 3 submerge, 1 rough // tumble, 1 LtfL, 2 Surgical
Does this seem right?
RUG
Enchantress
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Nimble Mongoose
4x Tarmogoyf
Spells
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Stifle
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
2x Fire//Ice
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
3x Tropical Island
3x Volcanic Island
4x Wasteland
3x Submerge
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Pyroblast
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Rough//Tumble
1x Spell Pierce
1x Life from the Loam
Against Jund, I go OTP: -4 Force of Will, +3 Submerge, +1 Life from the Loam
OTD: -4 Force of Will, -2 Daze, +3 Submerge, +1 Spell Pierce, +2 Rough//Tumble
I don't like Surgical Extraction in the matchup because Punishing Fire isn't really that amazing against us, so I don't see the point of worrying about it. Another reason is that the matchup is so grindy that I don't think we can afford to have spells in our deck that don't somehow impact the board.
I'm thinking of dropping 2 probes and adding a spell pierce and a spell snare. I'm always happy to see either of those cards, but unless probe is in your opener I don't really care for it. That would give me a mix of 3 stifle, 3 snare, and 3 pierce, with 5 burn spells. I just like the idea of having so many business spells. My only worry is running 3 stifles instead of 4, because with the probes you can know what to stifle better. Three spell snare may be a bit high, but damn, that card rocks.
Thanks for the input, Im still really new to this deck and certainly need a ton of practice. I'm also wondering about first turn plays quite a lot... do you always try to play the Delver first if you have it or is it better to leave mana open for a Spell Pierce or Stifle? Obviously a Daze in hand makes the decision so much easier but I often question myself on what the proper play is.
Another question - is there a general consensuses of Forked Bolt VS Fire//Ice? Seems a lot of people are running the Bolt lately but I think Fire//Ice was the previously ran card of choice. Just wondering if the mana cost beat out the versatility... I noticed in this deck your mana starved a lot, simply because there's just so much stuff you can do on any given turn... perhaps that factored into it?
Unless I know I am playing against a combo deck I will pretty much always play turn 1 Delver. That is what this deck wants to do. I don't always play turn 1 mongoose because often times it can't even attack the first turn because it will die.
I want all my burn spells to be CMC 1. I like to be able to dispose of 1 drops when I'm on the draw (primarily DRS and Mom)
For the first question, it really depends on what you're playing against and if you are on the play or draw; on the play, if you have a Daze and a Delver, you always play the Delver (even without Daze, it is usually correct to play Delver turn 1 if you are on the play), whereas on the draw, playing a turn 1 Delver could be risky depending on what they are playing.
As for the second question, nobody has truly solved the Forked Bolt vs. Fire//Ice, vs. Chain Lightning debate because it truly comes down to personal preference, as each has its pros and cons. Forked Bolt allows a possible 2-for-1 for 1 mana, the con being that it is a sorcery. Fire//Ice offers more diversity in terms of tempo plays, since you can, at instant speed, tap down an opposing Goyf or Port a land in the upkeep, while still having the 2-for-1 option of Forked Bolt if you need that instead; the con is that it costs 2 mana, and this deck really only likes 0-1-mana spells. Chain Lightning allows you to play 6 Lightning Bolts in your deck, which allows for more chances to draw the extra reach needed to finish the opponent before they can stabilize; the con is that it is awkward against other decks packing red, as you have to play it when they don't have RR available to copy it and kill your Delver.
I guess - I have to learn to play more aggressively, I think, as that's generally the problem. I want to be defensive but I really shouldn't be as most things don't hurt me in the first turn or two, especially on the play. Combo decks are also pretty rampant here - Elves and ANT especially - so it's trying to find a good balance on how to play and what to do in those situations. Combo seriously sucks pre-sideboarding, though there's games I can keep them off their land count enough to win but it's tough racing or even really disrupting them in general.
Either way, I absolutely love this deck. I've read a lot of this thread over the past few weeks, a lot of great feedback and information from everyone. <3 Really good read, it's almost like 136 pages isn't enough haha
Went 3-0-1
Round 1: Punishing Jund 2-0. He never had a stable mana base in either games, stifle/wasteland kept him back. Bolted the only shaman he landed.
Round 2: Maverick 2-0. Game one I won by chumping out goyfs to his mega knights while 2 Delvers flew over for the win. Game 2 he mulled to 5; wastelanded both mana sources.
Round 3: U/R Delver 2-1. Game one completely crushed his sternum, had 3 active delvers bombing him. Game 2 I mulled to 5 keeping a no lander with ponder/goyf/brainstorm/delver/goose. Drew a land and was 1 turn away from killing him with a goyf, but catching 3 bolts to the face on consecutive turns killed me, along with a active grim. Game 3 turns into a long game that leaves us both with no hands. I top deck 2 nimble mongooses in a row and ride them for the win.
Round 4: Elves. Draw 1st place
Very happy with the way the deck was running. Spell Snare turned into an all star against mav and U/R delver. Both players walked right into them, it made young pyromancer and thalia worthless. In both rounds neither hit the board.
RUG
Enchantress
I've been playing with 2 copies of Spell Snare lately too and really like it. Can't believe I dismissed it originally when I was building it, much more useful than Gitaxian Probe IMO.
Are you guys now running the 2/2/2 Pierce/Snare/Forked Bolt package right now? That's what I'm trying currently and its' working nicely but there's times I want a 3rd spell pierce and simply just don't have room to fit it in.
Also, is there a reason why people aren't dividing up their fetches to include Woodland Foothills? Just seems to make sense, in the off chance someone uses a Pithing Needle.
Thoughts?
Playing around Pithing Needle is not relevant with this deck, simply because why would someone be enticed to play a pithing needle against RUG? Even if they did, it would be a deck like 12 post naming Wasteland.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Legacy Wars XIII (wasnt sure yet with the count...around 30-40 players), missing the TOP 8 with a lower tiebreak.
(grats to my team8s kitz-4th (monou-omni), wilson-5th (elves) and renz-9th (bugtempo), a good start indeed for TEAMBUDGET, although we fell short, we managed to insert ourselves in the top 16.
4 force of will
4 stifle
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 daze
3 spell pierce
4 lightning bolt
2 tarfire
1 f/ice
4 delver of secrets
3 nimble mongoose
4 tarmogoyf
1 true name nemesis
3 wooded foothills
2 scalding tarn
1 polluted delta
2 flooded strand
3 tropical island
3 volcanic island
4 wasteland
SB:
1 vendilion clique
1 ancient grudge
1 destructive revelry
2 rough/tumble
2 grafdigger's cage
3 submerge
2 REB
1 pyroblast
2 pithing needle
SB changes from my previous SB - 1 snare, - 1 ancient grudge, -1 surgical extraction / + 1 destructive revelry, 1 ptithing needle, 1 grafdiggers cage
i saw many uwr tnn.decs and miracles before the start for the mentioned SB adjustments....
R1 (0-2) vs ANT
misread his deck as he was a long time tempo player...kept a counter light hand with 2delvers and some burn that didnt helped me when he combo's off.. game 2 i wasnt able to draw sufficient lands to support my counters, by the time i put in a clock vs him...that was it.
R2 (1-2) vs BNW tokens
managed to win game1, via stifle/waste...game 2 was horrible i wasnt able to draw any creature, game 3 when i boarded back in dazes vs lingering souls...none of them showed up! i was able to slow him up...pithing needle on polluted delta (he uses 4) and kept him at 2 lands for a long period of time, until he draws his basics..delvers showed up, but i was just wasnt able to protect them and even 3 pierce md wasnt enough.
R3 (2-1) vs BANT TNN
game1 i was able to cut him off impt colors to slow him down, boarded in 3 reb effects as i was anticipating tnns...then kotrs landed and had no answer when i didnt include in the submerges. game 3 was a bit grindy but the inclusion of the submerges here, really helped. a resolved TNN on my opponents battlefield slowed my 2 goyfs until i draw the TARFIRE, making it 5/6, landed another goyf..i over committed on this part, he drew a noble hierarch and at down to 6 where he can block my 2 goyfs, he would still be at 1 on his turn...i drew a submerge targeting the noble for lethal...his next card would be SUPREME VERDICT.
R4 (2-0) vs ELVES
OTP played a one-lander...flooded strand/daze/daze/bolt/bolt/delver/ponder.....delver home run!. game 2 i managed to draw an early graf, after the game he showed me 2 natural orders, 2 GSZ that was blanked by the cage...Rough on the middle part of the game sealed it off as i had 2 "tarfire-pumped" goyfs on the field.
R5 (2-0) vs UG Infect
7 burn spells made me confident vs this deck...burned everything at EoT, so he cant go off on his attack phase or made him use his pumps just to protect his crits when he cant attack..countered 2 needles naming wastelands on game2 was the key.
R6 (2-0) vs BANT TNN
grindy game 1 as we fought for every creature to put in the board..i managed to sneak in a lone threshed goose and that was it, by the time he landed a TNN and nearing lethal, i managed to draw additional threats. game 2 he mulled at 6 OTP, windswept-trops-gsz-dryad....i wasted the trop and praying that it was his only land...on his turn he attacked and passed and knew that was it. tarfired the dryad and from there i managed to control the board. ancient grudge helped alot by destroying a resolved relic and a jitte afterwards.
Glad i went on a streak after a horrible start. Ater round 2 when im 0-2, i really had nothing to lose except experience if i quit. sleeving up burn heavy RUG helped me on this tourney, i just wasnt expecting lingering souls anymore and benched my sulfurs. won several packs and had a good dinner before home with some friends. Was indeed very happy with my current list. I saw 1 RUG in the top8 being crushed by UWR patriot...hate seeing a fellow RUG facing multiple TNNs, can't afford to finish watching the game and decided to go. thanks guys for reading! GO TEAMBUDGET!
ALTERED CARDS
http://s671.beta.photobucket.com/user/poxy14/library/
commission status: FULL