How good would a non-Scapeshift ramp strategy be right now? Satyr Hedonist has a lot of potential for turn 3 Primeval/Inferno(/Grave?)Titans (all you need is a dork or a Search for Tomorrow). Could traditional Titan Ramp decks break into the meta, or is there too much combo?
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Isn't Gifts Ungiven just a strictly superior card? They both do essentially the same thing, except Gifts allows you to tutor the cards you want to reveal, except for only 1 less overall card.
Don't get me wrong, I love augury, and it's a cool card to have in standard, but it's basically equivalent of playing Gifts Ungiven while your opponent has an aven mindcensor in play.
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Isn't Gifts Ungiven just a strictly superior card? They both do essentially the same thing, except Gifts allows you to tutor the cards you want to reveal, except for only 1 less overall card.
Don't get me wrong, I love augury, and it's a cool card to have in standard, but it's basically equivalent of playing Gifts Ungiven while your opponent has an aven mindcensor in play.
It's a different effect though - If you're running Gifts, you're trying to kill them with it (generally), while Augury could be a way to refill as a control deck. I doubt it is much better than Thirst or Sphinx Revelation though.
Isn't Gifts Ungiven just a strictly superior card? They both do essentially the same thing, except Gifts allows you to tutor the cards you want to reveal, except for only 1 less overall card.
Don't get me wrong, I love augury, and it's a cool card to have in standard, but it's basically equivalent of playing Gifts Ungiven while your opponent has an aven mindcensor in play.
You are accomplishing a different goal with Augury than with gifts and while gifts is a great CA spell it has limitations and is suited well when you win after casting it
It's a different effect though - If you're running Gifts, you're trying to kill them with it (generally), while Augury could be a way to refill as a control deck. I doubt it is much better than Thirst or Sphinx Revelation though.
It fits in Grixis and as card draw and could be decent in tempo as well
It is unlikely better than Thirst in decka that can run Thirst, it is less mana intensive than revelation
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
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I think the one thing that makes augury worth consideration is that you can split the piles into different sizes as needed, which does make it a potent CA spell.
I guess I wouldn't be surprised to see it make an impact, but we'll wait and see.
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The plus of Steam Augury over Gifts with Mindcensor out is that you can get 3-4 cards from Steam Augury instead of Gifts's 2. Heck, if you get 3 cards from Steam Augury in this case, one of the cards is probably decent, while Gifts in this case always hands you the 2 worst cards.
The downside in this case is that if you get 4 cards from Steam Augury, all of them suck. This matters against combo--so far, I've lost every game against Scapeshift where I get 4 cards from each Steam Augury that resolves and I resolve SA once or even twice. (The 1-card pile is Cryptic. The 4-card piles tend to be stuff like Electrolyze-Spell Snare-land-land.)
You should be aware that the Teferi exploit doesn't work with Prophet.
Specifically, Teferi gives flash to all creature cards, including those in your deck. Thus you can tutor any creature with Teachings if Teferi is out. Prophet only says "as though they had flash" - it doesn't grant flash.
Yeah, I knew that. That's why I stuck a Chord of Calling in. the main reason why I went with Teachings was because it enables a mostly instant-speed deck which can take advantage of the extra untap.
How good would a non-Scapeshift ramp strategy be right now? Satyr Hedonist has a lot of potential for turn 3 Primeval/Inferno(/Grave?)Titans (all you need is a dork or a Search for Tomorrow). Could traditional Titan Ramp decks break into the meta, or is there too much combo?
It's not terrible, but for most ramp strategies Tron is simply better. If you Hedonist into a Titan and they counter the Titan you are kind of boned. With Tron you just cast Karn again next turn.
I'll try a grixis splashed W version of UWR control with 2 sphinx's revelations and 2 steam augury. It's still a pretty powerful card with 4 snapcaster main. Sure, it doesn't gain you life but boosting your hand and gy at only 4 mana can be neat.
I'd say that it is way better than Sphinx's Revelation. Gaining 2-3 life isn't going to stop anything, this can be cast more easily, and it is easier to use with Snapcaster Mage.
I'd say that it is way better than Sphinx's Revelation. Gaining 2-3 life isn't going to stop anything, this can be cast more easily, and it is easier to use with Snapcaster Mage.
I've now tried Steam Augury in both UWR Control and UWR Midrange, and while it's great against fair decks (and unfair decks like Pod and Tempo Twin), it's poor against unfair decks like Scapeshift (and maybe RG Tron). So far, I've lost nearly all the games where I've resolved Steam Augury once or even twice against Scapeshift. (I did win a game where I resolved Steam Augury 3 times, though.) Piles like Cryptic Command vs. Electrolyze-Mana Leak-land-land occur too often, and Scapeshift keeps handing me the 4-card pile and winning.
Sphinx's Revelation is way better against the unfair decks because one resolution of that puppy can at least pull you significantly ahead because you actually get to draw into your hate or best answers.
Well, that's the thing about playing with Steam Augury. They're picking the pile, in a world where everyone plays their best that means they'll never give you the pile with cards relevant to keeping them away from winning.
Hope for more double CrypCom piles, or CrypCom Snapcaster ones... in fact, these sorts of situations seem to be where Gifts Ungiven shine, since you want to be so redundant as to effectively get the play you want (like, I dunno, CrypCom/Tiago/Negate/Gifts), rather than looking at that one relevant card out of 5 you'll never get through Augury.
Does anyone else feel like Modern got little to nothing from this set? All that Modern got (not counting reprints) was Swan Song, Master of Waves, and possibly Nykthos. That is less than any other set since Modern was announced except for Dragon's Maze.
Hero's Downfall may find a place.
Was going to post it in the other thread but it got locked down while I durdled.
Keep in mind that WotC is not obligated to meet a format staple quota for each set. It's obvious when they're targeting other formats, but just because RTR flooded everyone with great stuff doesn't mean it's the golden standard for cross-set pandering.
Hero's Downfall may find a place.
Was going to post it in the other thread but it got locked down while I durdled.
Keep in mind that WotC is not obligated to meet a format staple quota for each set. It's obvious when they're targeting other formats, but just because RTR flooded everyone with great stuff doesn't mean it's the golden standard for cross-set pandering.
M14 and M13 had more than Theros, despite the fact that they were just core sets. Dark Ascension had more, even though it was a small set. I didn't need the 15+ playable cards in Return to Ravnica and Innistrad or even the amount that we got in Gatecrash, but is getting around 5 like we did in M14, M13, Avacyn Restored, or Dark Ascension really too much to ask for a large set?
M14 and M13 had more than Theros, despite the fact that they were just core sets. Dark Ascension had more, even though it was a small set. I didn't need the 15+ playable cards in Return to Ravnica and Innistrad or even the amount that we got in Gatecrash, but is getting around 5 like we did in M14, M13, Avacyn Restored, or Dark Ascension really too much to ask for a large set?
I agree with ya here. In a way, I feel we're over expectant of cards we can use in Modern because RtR and Innistrad were amazeballs, but seriously, even with sets before that, it seemed like almost every large set since MRD gave us at least a few good things.
The reason I opened up the other thread that got locked was to entertain the possibility of enough good cards or synergistic cards in future sets that mono decks like merfolk or enchantment decks like bogles might get a boost. If anything, the big question being if a devotion deck would ever become modern-playable.
Anger of the Gods is a good SB option, especially against Pod, while it's still decent in all other MU's where you want Wrath-effects.
Ashen Rider sees some play in Legacy, so in the right decks (Through the Breach? xD) it could see some fringe play too.
I've met weird Esper decks with Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver more often then you'd imagine lately too (and funnily they always hit DRS or Tarmogoyf instantly^^)
I also feel like Boon Satyr could've a place in some zoo decks, though I have not yet see him / tried him out.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion has been tried by many UWR players as far as I can tell, though it doesn't seem that she actually hold her ground.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel has paired up with Phyrexian Obliterator to kill me quite a few times too (though that deck mostly felt like mono B Infect ^^)
Fleecemane Lion doesn't seem completely unreasonable in NAya Zoo either, though he certainly lacks a bit of power.
I've also seen Mistcutter Hydra, Purphoros (in an Emty the Warrens/Young Pyromancer deck^^) and Hero's Downfall.
Now obviously those cards are not on the level DRS is on or SCM/Liliana etc. but aside from those the mentioned MoW, Steam Augury and Swansong some of those might hit the tier 1-1.5 decks at some point. I'Ve also seen a lot of Shrine's to Nyx, though I haven't yet been impressed by it ever (seen it in a mono B deck, where it comboed off with Obliterator and Messenger, but he didn't really do anything with the mana^^, I've seen ti cast the 10/10 Titan that becomes 20/20 trample, but that's not even a playable card etc.).
Just saying that there's certainly some potential.
Also "just coreset" is not a true statement anymore. Aside from the cards being less complex WotC is obviously pushing their powerlevel closer to "real" sets since M13 at the very least.
I run Elspeth in my UWR, but Fleecemane is terrible. It's basically a Watchwolf, which nobody runs.
Anger of the Gods is a good SB option, especially against Pod, while it's still decent in all other MU's where you want Wrath-effects.
Ashen Rider sees some play in Legacy, so in the right decks (Through the Breach? xD) it could see some fringe play too.
I've met weird Esper decks with Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver more often then you'd imagine lately too (and funnily they always hit DRS or Tarmogoyf instantly^^)
I also feel like Boon Satyr could've a place in some zoo decks, though I have not yet see him / tried him out.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion has been tried by many UWR players as far as I can tell, though it doesn't seem that she actually hold her ground.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel has paired up with Phyrexian Obliterator to kill me quite a few times too (though that deck mostly felt like mono B Infect ^^)
Fleecemane Lion doesn't seem completely unreasonable in NAya Zoo either, though he certainly lacks a bit of power.
I've also seen Mistcutter Hydra, Purphoros (in an Emty the Warrens/Young Pyromancer deck^^) and Hero's Downfall.
Now obviously those cards are not on the level DRS is on or SCM/Liliana etc. but aside from those the mentioned MoW, Steam Augury and Swansong some of those might hit the tier 1-1.5 decks at some point. I'Ve also seen a lot of Shrine's to Nyx, though I haven't yet been impressed by it ever (seen it in a mono B deck, where it comboed off with Obliterator and Messenger, but he didn't really do anything with the mana^^, I've seen ti cast the 10/10 Titan that becomes 20/20 trample, but that's not even a playable card etc.).
Just saying that there's certainly some potential.
Also "just coreset" is not a true statement anymore. Aside from the cards being less complex WotC is obviously pushing their powerlevel closer to "real" sets since M13 at the very least.
You are deluding yourself. It is no longer a question of "Will these cards fit into decks or create new viable ones?" It is a question of "Have these cards fit into decks or created new ones?" The set has been out for 2 months. We have seen 2 Modern Grand Prix in that time. Nothing has happened. I would love to believe that I am wrong and that some of these cards are playable. Maybe someday they will be. But right now, on 11/21/13, the only new cards in Theros that are playable in Modern are Swan Song, Master of waves, and Anger of the Gods (thanks for pointing that one out).
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
Isn't Gifts Ungiven just a strictly superior card? They both do essentially the same thing, except Gifts allows you to tutor the cards you want to reveal, except for only 1 less overall card.
Don't get me wrong, I love augury, and it's a cool card to have in standard, but it's basically equivalent of playing Gifts Ungiven while your opponent has an aven mindcensor in play.
It's a different effect though - If you're running Gifts, you're trying to kill them with it (generally), while Augury could be a way to refill as a control deck. I doubt it is much better than Thirst or Sphinx Revelation though.
You are accomplishing a different goal with Augury than with gifts and while gifts is a great CA spell it has limitations and is suited well when you win after casting it
It fits in Grixis and as card draw and could be decent in tempo as well
It is unlikely better than Thirst in decka that can run Thirst, it is less mana intensive than revelation
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
I guess I wouldn't be surprised to see it make an impact, but we'll wait and see.
The downside in this case is that if you get 4 cards from Steam Augury, all of them suck. This matters against combo--so far, I've lost every game against Scapeshift where I get 4 cards from each Steam Augury that resolves and I resolve SA once or even twice. (The 1-card pile is Cryptic. The 4-card piles tend to be stuff like Electrolyze-Spell Snare-land-land.)
Yeah, I knew that. That's why I stuck a Chord of Calling in. the main reason why I went with Teachings was because it enables a mostly instant-speed deck which can take advantage of the extra untap.
It's not terrible, but for most ramp strategies Tron is simply better. If you Hedonist into a Titan and they counter the Titan you are kind of boned. With Tron you just cast Karn again next turn.
I'd say that it is way better than Sphinx's Revelation. Gaining 2-3 life isn't going to stop anything, this can be cast more easily, and it is easier to use with Snapcaster Mage.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I've now tried Steam Augury in both UWR Control and UWR Midrange, and while it's great against fair decks (and unfair decks like Pod and Tempo Twin), it's poor against unfair decks like Scapeshift (and maybe RG Tron). So far, I've lost nearly all the games where I've resolved Steam Augury once or even twice against Scapeshift. (I did win a game where I resolved Steam Augury 3 times, though.) Piles like Cryptic Command vs. Electrolyze-Mana Leak-land-land occur too often, and Scapeshift keeps handing me the 4-card pile and winning.
Sphinx's Revelation is way better against the unfair decks because one resolution of that puppy can at least pull you significantly ahead because you actually get to draw into your hate or best answers.
Hope for more double CrypCom piles, or CrypCom Snapcaster ones... in fact, these sorts of situations seem to be where Gifts Ungiven shine, since you want to be so redundant as to effectively get the play you want (like, I dunno, CrypCom/Tiago/Negate/Gifts), rather than looking at that one relevant card out of 5 you'll never get through Augury.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Was going to post it in the other thread but it got locked down while I durdled.
Keep in mind that WotC is not obligated to meet a format staple quota for each set. It's obvious when they're targeting other formats, but just because RTR flooded everyone with great stuff doesn't mean it's the golden standard for cross-set pandering.
M14 and M13 had more than Theros, despite the fact that they were just core sets. Dark Ascension had more, even though it was a small set. I didn't need the 15+ playable cards in Return to Ravnica and Innistrad or even the amount that we got in Gatecrash, but is getting around 5 like we did in M14, M13, Avacyn Restored, or Dark Ascension really too much to ask for a large set?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I agree with ya here. In a way, I feel we're over expectant of cards we can use in Modern because RtR and Innistrad were amazeballs, but seriously, even with sets before that, it seemed like almost every large set since MRD gave us at least a few good things.
The reason I opened up the other thread that got locked was to entertain the possibility of enough good cards or synergistic cards in future sets that mono decks like merfolk or enchantment decks like bogles might get a boost. If anything, the big question being if a devotion deck would ever become modern-playable.
I run Elspeth in my UWR, but Fleecemane is terrible. It's basically a Watchwolf, which nobody runs.
You are deluding yourself. It is no longer a question of "Will these cards fit into decks or create new viable ones?" It is a question of "Have these cards fit into decks or created new ones?" The set has been out for 2 months. We have seen 2 Modern Grand Prix in that time. Nothing has happened. I would love to believe that I am wrong and that some of these cards are playable. Maybe someday they will be. But right now, on 11/21/13, the only new cards in Theros that are playable in Modern are Swan Song, Master of waves, and Anger of the Gods (thanks for pointing that one out).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.