Hi everyone, Steve Argyle here. I'm an MtG artist.
Just want to let people know that the folks at MVP Games are selling stolen artwork. Their eBay store has a series of 109 printed foil alters, all claiming to be a limited edition of 200, and hugely marking up the price. (That's potentially 21,800 bootleg cards.) This may sound familiar to some of you. Wizard's shut down a company making these earlier this summer. It seems they've wised up enough to not use official Wizard's artwork anymore, but instead steal from the little guys. They've removed the artists names and signatures, and any copyright information on the original images.
When I contacted them, I wanted to let them know that they may be being scammed by a supplier. They assured me that they had the rights to all work used. I assured them that I'm the artist, and I had not issued rights. They replied with: So what? You can't stop us. And if you try anything, we'll sue you for harassment.
They have been issued a Cease and Desist, which they are now in violation of.
Legally, the outcome I can expect is that eBay will take down the specific listings infringing on my work. That's about all. In the meantime, they're abusing the artists who bring a bit of life to this great game, and the players who are trying to support and enjoy it.
I've contacted the artist's whose work I recognize. (So far, every one of them has said they did not give any sort of permission.) But since all the credits have been removed, it's hard to track everyone down. If you recognize a piece, please let the artist know.
I hate the thieves that steal art online and then print and sell them as "custom alters" on places like ebay. I dont understand why people would pay money for those things in the first place. You can make them for yourself with any printer that isnt 10 years old.
Im sorry to hear your art is being stolen Steve. I hope MVP games and others like them are brought to justice.
Which of the cards/art are being used without permission? I would like to aide in reporting the misuse of art to protect the integrity of the altered market.
I didn't find these auctions. Has eBay already removed them?
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Searching for "mvpsportsandgames" on eBay yields many "Xmas gift 200" results with uncredited artists. However, I am unsure of which are Steve's/the ones he mentioned.
This behavior of them is despicable, I am a known adversary of printed alters as well, why people would pay that much money for something that is technically fake and illegal is beyond me. Why not pay a hard working artist for their work instead of scalping it on the web?
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Honestly, the only thing which frustrates me more than this is how you can't even sell your own Magic art on playmats anymore. Even if I didn't want to buy a couple more for myself (which I do), the very idea of it bothers me so much.
On a side note... Will you be coming back to Montreal for the GP in March or anytime in the near future? I have a nice stack of cards I really want to get signed and would rather not send them in the mail.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
I assume there will be some sort of court cases in the near future at least regarding some of these issues. If I buy a card why can't I scribble on it? If someone else then wants to buy it, whatever. I waited in line for over 4 hours at GP Taipei last year to try and get Steve Argyle to alter cards and I didn't get anywhere close to meeting him before the end of the session.
I waited in line for over 4 hours at GP Taipei last year to try and get Steve Argyle to alter cards and I didn't get anywhere close to meeting him before the end of the session.
Ok, I'll bite. What does this comment have to do with this thread? Because Argyle didn't work fast enough for you, his artwork deserves to have his name removed from it?
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
We buy & sell thousands of new & used cards to/from our customers every week, and we strictly avoid purchasing any fakes/forgeries to the best of our knowledge. In an industry with literally millions of cards and variations it is impossible for any trader to maintain 100% certainty on such trades, however we do actively pursue any suspected fraudulent or illegal sellers. If anyone ever has documented proof that someone sold us fraudulent cards, we encourage them to contact us immediately with the evidence so that we can pursue the seller accordingly. However without documented evidence it is just your word against theirs, i.e. we would have no legal basis with which to pursue them.
I just wanted to reiterate that this is important. Profiting from someone else's work is bad enough, but we shouldn't let it happen in our community, to the artists of the game we love.
I found several similar listings by the seller "mvpsportsandgames" and reported three.
Ok, I'll bite. What does this comment have to do with this thread? Because Argyle didn't work fast enough for you, his artwork deserves to have his name removed from it?
Not my meaning. Recently Wizards as been actively targeting people who are merely selling altered cards. Names aside. For example I buy a booster, I doodle some stuff on the card and my friend likes what I did and wants to buy it. Wizards thinks we are criminals for doing this. I should give him the card, not make any money. Of course this is silly as I've purchased the card and I should be able to do with it how I see fit.
There are lawyers looking into this as we speak and several of them are citing modification of tons of items which people than resell. For example cars, refurnished homes, artwork with new framing, etc.
Not my meaning. Recently Wizards as been actively targeting people who are merely selling altered cards. Names aside. For example I buy a booster, I doodle some stuff on the card and my friend likes what I did and wants to buy it. Wizards thinks we are criminals for doing this. I should give him the card, not make any money. Of course this is silly as I've purchased the card and I should be able to do with it how I see fit.
There are lawyers looking into this as we speak and several of them are citing modification of tons of items which people than resell. For example cars, refurnished homes, artwork with new framing, etc.
AFAIK wizards only goes after people who print copyrighted stuff(card art, mana symbols, various guild/faction symbols) and as long as you alter real cards you are fine.
Here's my take on the situation as a concept artist/illustrator:
Artists like Steve, myself, and many others work really hard and sacrifice many hours of labor to put the creativity and life into the pieces you see displayed on the MtG cards you play with everyday. These works of art are our living. No artist that I have EVER encountered has worked for free - I sure as hell don't. This is how we pay our bills, feed our families, and finance our ability to continue providing the artwork that has been a part of MtG since its inception. Is it easy to steal these images? Sure. With the digital age in full swing, many artists utilize websites to provide portfolios to clientele who seek their service. Artists have put in a lot of time to perfect their craft and so has anyone else in any other field. I think the practice of stealing an artist's work is cheap, cowardly, and pathetic. Pay the artist, or pay the price.
As far as WotC coming down on altered art cards:
Wizards has every right to do so. That image isn't yours, bud. If you're extending the art of the card, changing a color of a particular element on the image or changing the image entirely, and selling the card then you're attempting to profit. Especially if you're trying to maintain the integrity of the card in and of itself. Needless to say, you're infringing on copyright. Selling it under the table to your buddy is forgivable, but if you're trying to market your cards online or anywhere else, you are operating as a small business and that's unforgivable.
I hope that this clarifies some of the frustration and anger that some of you have with artists and companies such as WotC cracking down on stolen art or altered cards. Some of you have never been in a self-employed position to understand what it's like to have your work stolen and some of you have.
So I'll say it again, pay the artist or pay the price.
Here's my take
As far as WotC coming down on altered art cards:
Wizards has every right to do so. That image isn't yours, bud. If you're extending the art of the card, changing a color of a particular element on the image or changing the image entirely, and selling the card then you're attempting to profit. Especially if you're trying to maintain the integrity of the card in and of itself. Needless to say, you're infringing on copyright.
Why does this not sound right to me? I spent many years doing custom work to cars and I know that the automakers can't say a damn thing about it. Aside from me rebadging something and trying to sell it as something else, I can change a car as much I want with no recourse from the manufacturer, even if I sell the modded car for profit.
Granted, I'm fairly thickheaded about legal mumbo jumbo, and maybe this is a bad comparison, but I'd like to know how this actually works.
Was I putting myself in danger of legal trouble by modifying cars and being paid for it?
Seems along the same lines of card altering; buy a card, mod it, sell to compensate for the work you put into it...
I could do this with cars all I want... why not Magic cards? (Barring the stolen, uncredited artwork that is the point of this thread, obviously)
(I get the feeling I'll get flamed for this but I'm posting it anyway just cuz I'd like to know.)
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If I had a dollar for every time I missed playing a Counterspell ...
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Just want to let people know that the folks at MVP Games are selling stolen artwork. Their eBay store has a series of 109 printed foil alters, all claiming to be a limited edition of 200, and hugely marking up the price. (That's potentially 21,800 bootleg cards.) This may sound familiar to some of you. Wizard's shut down a company making these earlier this summer. It seems they've wised up enough to not use official Wizard's artwork anymore, but instead steal from the little guys. They've removed the artists names and signatures, and any copyright information on the original images.
When I contacted them, I wanted to let them know that they may be being scammed by a supplier. They assured me that they had the rights to all work used. I assured them that I'm the artist, and I had not issued rights. They replied with: So what? You can't stop us. And if you try anything, we'll sue you for harassment.
They have been issued a Cease and Desist, which they are now in violation of.
Legally, the outcome I can expect is that eBay will take down the specific listings infringing on my work. That's about all. In the meantime, they're abusing the artists who bring a bit of life to this great game, and the players who are trying to support and enjoy it.
I've contacted the artist's whose work I recognize. (So far, every one of them has said they did not give any sort of permission.) But since all the credits have been removed, it's hard to track everyone down. If you recognize a piece, please let the artist know.
Thanks,
Steve
http://steveargyle.deviantart.com/
http://steveargyle.tumblr.com/ (fanservice)
Im sorry to hear your art is being stolen Steve. I hope MVP games and others like them are brought to justice.
I went ahead and reported a few as well
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Honestly, the only thing which frustrates me more than this is how you can't even sell your own Magic art on playmats anymore. Even if I didn't want to buy a couple more for myself (which I do), the very idea of it bothers me so much.
On a side note... Will you be coming back to Montreal for the GP in March or anytime in the near future? I have a nice stack of cards I really want to get signed and would rather not send them in the mail.
Ok, I'll bite. What does this comment have to do with this thread? Because Argyle didn't work fast enough for you, his artwork deserves to have his name removed from it?
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I suggest anyone who is looking into these do a quick reverse image search. on the alter. I tracked it pretty easily to the artist's website.
We buy & sell thousands of new & used cards to/from our customers every week, and we strictly avoid purchasing any fakes/forgeries to the best of our knowledge. In an industry with literally millions of cards and variations it is impossible for any trader to maintain 100% certainty on such trades, however we do actively pursue any suspected fraudulent or illegal sellers. If anyone ever has documented proof that someone sold us fraudulent cards, we encourage them to contact us immediately with the evidence so that we can pursue the seller accordingly. However without documented evidence it is just your word against theirs, i.e. we would have no legal basis with which to pursue them.
I found several similar listings by the seller "mvpsportsandgames" and reported three.
Not my meaning. Recently Wizards as been actively targeting people who are merely selling altered cards. Names aside. For example I buy a booster, I doodle some stuff on the card and my friend likes what I did and wants to buy it. Wizards thinks we are criminals for doing this. I should give him the card, not make any money. Of course this is silly as I've purchased the card and I should be able to do with it how I see fit.
There are lawyers looking into this as we speak and several of them are citing modification of tons of items which people than resell. For example cars, refurnished homes, artwork with new framing, etc.
AFAIK wizards only goes after people who print copyrighted stuff(card art, mana symbols, various guild/faction symbols) and as long as you alter real cards you are fine.
Artists like Steve, myself, and many others work really hard and sacrifice many hours of labor to put the creativity and life into the pieces you see displayed on the MtG cards you play with everyday. These works of art are our living. No artist that I have EVER encountered has worked for free - I sure as hell don't. This is how we pay our bills, feed our families, and finance our ability to continue providing the artwork that has been a part of MtG since its inception. Is it easy to steal these images? Sure. With the digital age in full swing, many artists utilize websites to provide portfolios to clientele who seek their service. Artists have put in a lot of time to perfect their craft and so has anyone else in any other field. I think the practice of stealing an artist's work is cheap, cowardly, and pathetic. Pay the artist, or pay the price.
As far as WotC coming down on altered art cards:
Wizards has every right to do so. That image isn't yours, bud. If you're extending the art of the card, changing a color of a particular element on the image or changing the image entirely, and selling the card then you're attempting to profit. Especially if you're trying to maintain the integrity of the card in and of itself. Needless to say, you're infringing on copyright. Selling it under the table to your buddy is forgivable, but if you're trying to market your cards online or anywhere else, you are operating as a small business and that's unforgivable.
I hope that this clarifies some of the frustration and anger that some of you have with artists and companies such as WotC cracking down on stolen art or altered cards. Some of you have never been in a self-employed position to understand what it's like to have your work stolen and some of you have.
So I'll say it again, pay the artist or pay the price.
Why does this not sound right to me? I spent many years doing custom work to cars and I know that the automakers can't say a damn thing about it. Aside from me rebadging something and trying to sell it as something else, I can change a car as much I want with no recourse from the manufacturer, even if I sell the modded car for profit.
Granted, I'm fairly thickheaded about legal mumbo jumbo, and maybe this is a bad comparison, but I'd like to know how this actually works.
Was I putting myself in danger of legal trouble by modifying cars and being paid for it?
Seems along the same lines of card altering; buy a card, mod it, sell to compensate for the work you put into it...
I could do this with cars all I want... why not Magic cards? (Barring the stolen, uncredited artwork that is the point of this thread, obviously)
(I get the feeling I'll get flamed for this but I'm posting it anyway just cuz I'd like to know.)
-LEGACY-- RUR SpellDelver UWU Superfriends with Benefits
-MODERN- GBG B/G GoodGrief GRG R/G Go[o]dstuff
-CHROME- GGG Mean Green WUB Spirit Tribal
-PAUPER-- WBG Enchantments RUG RUG Delver
-1v1 EDH-- UB Lazav's Grindhouse BB Death by Sheoldred
If I had a dollar for every time I missed playing a Counterspell ...
I'd be missing my Mana Drain s instead.