For what it's worth, the opposite of evergreen is "deciduous" so I suggest we start using that from now on to refer to shroud, banding, islandhome, etc.
Agreed. As far as I can recall, I have yet to see a player drop a turn 2 pack rat and lose.
Hell, I played Rakdos Devotion with a 2 of Pack Rat and I won every time I dropped it and that's without Mutavault. It seems like 80% of the time, the answer is:
1. Drop turn 2 Pack Rat
2. Discard a card every turn
3. ?????
4. Profit
It's not an auto-win, but it is good against a lot of decks out right now.
Against Aggro, it just is too slow. You'll be eating 6-8 damage a turn starting turn 3, and you will be near death by the time it profitably trades, meaning a single top-deck could end the game.
It can also be answered by certain removal spells in the format. Not a ton, but enough.
It's still going to win against a huge number decks. G/R will find themselves swarmed by blockers quickly. Mono-U is just terrible against it as they have no way to actually stop it. Your tokens will be bigger and more abundant than theirs, and you have better removal suites to back it up. In the mirror, it can easily come down to who resolves their Pack Rat first. Against control, it's very similar. Like I said, the only MU it's terrible against is straight Aggro, particularly RDW, or possibly Burn which just goes above the rats.
Mono black is a midrange deck which makes it difficult to play.
I've seen so many players lose with it because they don't really know what they're doing.
They pull the trigger on the removal spells at the wrong times and they don't want to discard some of their power spells to make pack rats.
Watching Owen Turtenwald playing the deck is always a pleasure. He plays it best which is why he gets the results. You need to be attacking and doing damage to win, you can't just hope to wipe the board with removal and win that way, it's not a control deck.
Another boring standard tournament with devotion decks. I wonder how attendance at LGS are doing. Here attendance is down compared to last season. In a way I hope attendance keeps dropping everywhere so they'll be forced to change their design philosophy.
Another boring standard tournament with devotion decks. I wonder how attendance at LGS are doing. Here attendance is down compared to last season. In a way I hope attendance keeps dropping everywhere so they'll be forced to change their design philosophy.
I dunno, if Mono U gets pushed out with BotG and Mono B is the only remaining devotion list the format should open up. Control and possibly Goodstuff.deck could run rampant again and I don't personally find those any more entertaining then synergy decks.
Another boring standard tournament with devotion decks. I wonder how attendance at LGS are doing. Here attendance is down compared to last season. In a way I hope attendance keeps dropping everywhere so they'll be forced to change their design philosophy.
My LGS is about the same as last season. I much rather play this year then last years thragfest.... But esper midrange is here and that pushes monoB out so it's pretty diverse on the decks doing well.
Only people who didn't play standard last year think this
Thragtusk was the only thing stopping aggro decks from completely overrunning the format, Thragtusk's existence actually allowed a whole load of awesome decks like the unexpected results brew to exist that wouldn't have been viable without him
Every deck either had to find a way to go over or under Thragtusk. It did warp the format, and you are fooling yourself if you think it did not.
Really terrible punt by the U/W player. He had a blue mana open. All he had to do was blink Aetherling and he wins. Really confusing mistake.
I couldn't understand that either... even if he made the mistake and pumped it up when he attacked, he could have just blinked it and forced Kenney to have a Chained to the Rocks next turn to get rid of it.
Didn't understand that at all... I thought for sure he had that game locked up.
I don't know what the people whining about the current Standard are expecting. I'd love to hear what Standard season they have such fond memories of. We currently have Mono-B, Mono-U, R/W Devotion, R/W Midrange, G/R Devotion, G/R Midrange, Orzhov Aggro, Orzhov Midrange as top tier decks, just off the top of my head. None of these have completely locked lists but shift around from tournament to tournament. And you still see outsider decks like U/G Flash taking a tournament out of nowhere.
I don't know exactly what people are wishing for, but this is as good as it gets.
I don't know what the people whining about the current Standard are expecting. I'd love to hear what Standard season they have such fond memories of. We currently have Mono-B, Mono-U, R/W Devotion, R/W Midrange, G/R Devotion, G/R Midrange, Orzhov Aggro, Orzhov Midrange as top tier decks, just off the top of my head. None of these have completely locked lists but shift around from tournament to tournament. And you still see outsider decks like U/G Flash taking a tournament out of nowhere.
I don't know exactly what people are wishing for, but this is as good as it gets.
The problem is the decks all basically play out the same way. And there isn't much difference with piloting the decks between someone who just picked it up and someone who only plays that deck.
Current standard is rather dry but you can also attribute a lot of that to a tiny card pool.
Also, Tusk was indeed the only thing keeping aggro in check last season. The environment was a lot healthier than people tend to believe/remember. I very much enjoyed it.
Regardless, as long as we don't have something like Caw Blade running around no one should be complaining.
Thrag was a very good card that got played a lot. Just like Sphinx's Revelation, Supreme Verdict, Bonfire of the Damned, Restoration Angel and a ton of others.
The problem is the decks all basically play out the same way. And there isn't much difference with piloting the decks between someone who just picked it up and someone who only plays that deck.
This is a gross oversimplification and understatement.
I am going to agree that the problem with standard is its low card pool.
not enough options or redundancy. there is still a lot to come form BNG but I was hope for more tool against the devotion decks a less cards to help them.. which is what I have seen so far.
Thragtusk, warped the format. However it warped it into something fairly diverse (it was ooze that gifted standard to jund in the end). I prefer the current, devotion mechanic based format. I feel it is better that the format is warped around a mechanic that exists in every colour and has inherent weaknesses.
Its really thoughtsieze and the lack of redundant enough card pool that is preventing black devotion devotion being tackled properly.
I actually like the Mono blue devotion deck as a deck, lots of little.. poking cards and a few very powerful key spells it is much easier to attack than mono black. Its just that it is running the opposite angle to mono black so you generally can only beat one of mono blue or mono black consistently.
I really dont like the mana fixing this standard. The scry lands are too much like guild gates in that they come into play tapped. If the mana was better this format more things would be more possible.
I think people forget how good the mana was last format. Everyone just thinks about thragtusk but forgets that not every deck ran the Tusk that was good. Mono colored decks are mainly good due to the consistency in its mana base along with some half way decent cards that they can cast.
Thoughtseize is also annoying but again, if my lands didnt come into play tapped or didnt have to pay life for them, it would be easier to cast different kinds of spells.
I really dont like the mana fixing this standard. The scry lands are too much like guild gates in that they come into play tapped. If the mana was better this format more things would be more possible.
I think people forget how good the mana was last format. Everyone just thinks about thragtusk but forgets that not every deck ran the Tusk that was good. Mono colored decks are mainly good due to the consistency in its mana base along with some half way decent cards that they can cast.
Thoughtseize is also annoying but again, if my lands didnt come into play tapped or didnt have to pay life for them, it would be easier to cast different kinds of spells.
The mana base was insanely good, and we were all spoilt with mana.
There are a lot of really good underused cards right now that I think will find a home once BoTG comes out.
The guy that killed his own Aetherling with Elspeth was a big laugh.
When 2 Boros decks make the final it's hard to say the format isn't healthy. Young Pyromancer is easily the best new card in M14. A friend of mine ran down to the LGS yesterday for some M14 to try and open some and was disappointed to find they had sold out.
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It's not an auto-win, but it is good against a lot of decks out right now.
Against Aggro, it just is too slow. You'll be eating 6-8 damage a turn starting turn 3, and you will be near death by the time it profitably trades, meaning a single top-deck could end the game.
It can also be answered by certain removal spells in the format. Not a ton, but enough.
It's still going to win against a huge number decks. G/R will find themselves swarmed by blockers quickly. Mono-U is just terrible against it as they have no way to actually stop it. Your tokens will be bigger and more abundant than theirs, and you have better removal suites to back it up. In the mirror, it can easily come down to who resolves their Pack Rat first. Against control, it's very similar. Like I said, the only MU it's terrible against is straight Aggro, particularly RDW, or possibly Burn which just goes above the rats.
Yep. He should've blinked it or at least shrunk it, RW player seemed shocked and I think he thought it was pretty much over at that point.
The mono blue vs. RW Devotion matchup was pretty fun to watch. Game 1 was a nut draw from mono blue, game 3 was a nut draw from RW Devotion.
AND IM SLOWPOKE
I've seen so many players lose with it because they don't really know what they're doing.
They pull the trigger on the removal spells at the wrong times and they don't want to discard some of their power spells to make pack rats.
Watching Owen Turtenwald playing the deck is always a pleasure. He plays it best which is why he gets the results. You need to be attacking and doing damage to win, you can't just hope to wipe the board with removal and win that way, it's not a control deck.
I dunno, if Mono U gets pushed out with BotG and Mono B is the only remaining devotion list the format should open up. Control and possibly Goodstuff.deck could run rampant again and I don't personally find those any more entertaining then synergy decks.
My LGS is about the same as last season. I much rather play this year then last years thragfest.... But esper midrange is here and that pushes monoB out so it's pretty diverse on the decks doing well.
EDH
BU LazavUB
GU Momir VigUG
Every deck either had to find a way to go over or under Thragtusk. It did warp the format, and you are fooling yourself if you think it did not.
I couldn't understand that either... even if he made the mistake and pumped it up when he attacked, he could have just blinked it and forced Kenney to have a Chained to the Rocks next turn to get rid of it.
Didn't understand that at all... I thought for sure he had that game locked up.
I don't know exactly what people are wishing for, but this is as good as it gets.
The problem is the decks all basically play out the same way. And there isn't much difference with piloting the decks between someone who just picked it up and someone who only plays that deck.
Also, Tusk was indeed the only thing keeping aggro in check last season. The environment was a lot healthier than people tend to believe/remember. I very much enjoyed it.
Regardless, as long as we don't have something like Caw Blade running around no one should be complaining.
This is a gross oversimplification and understatement.
not enough options or redundancy. there is still a lot to come form BNG but I was hope for more tool against the devotion decks a less cards to help them.. which is what I have seen so far.
Thragtusk, warped the format. However it warped it into something fairly diverse (it was ooze that gifted standard to jund in the end). I prefer the current, devotion mechanic based format. I feel it is better that the format is warped around a mechanic that exists in every colour and has inherent weaknesses.
Its really thoughtsieze and the lack of redundant enough card pool that is preventing black devotion devotion being tackled properly.
I actually like the Mono blue devotion deck as a deck, lots of little.. poking cards and a few very powerful key spells it is much easier to attack than mono black. Its just that it is running the opposite angle to mono black so you generally can only beat one of mono blue or mono black consistently.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I think people forget how good the mana was last format. Everyone just thinks about thragtusk but forgets that not every deck ran the Tusk that was good. Mono colored decks are mainly good due to the consistency in its mana base along with some half way decent cards that they can cast.
Thoughtseize is also annoying but again, if my lands didnt come into play tapped or didnt have to pay life for them, it would be easier to cast different kinds of spells.
The mana base was insanely good, and we were all spoilt with mana.
There are a lot of really good underused cards right now that I think will find a home once BoTG comes out.
Mono black and mono blue have been found out and everybody is out to beat them.
That Mizzium Skin play was awesome.
The guy that killed his own Aetherling with Elspeth was a big laugh.
When 2 Boros decks make the final it's hard to say the format isn't healthy. Young Pyromancer is easily the best new card in M14. A friend of mine ran down to the LGS yesterday for some M14 to try and open some and was disappointed to find they had sold out.