I currently play RDW, and mono-black is my worst matchup. It is okay as of right now because I can win on turn 4. But with the addition of Drown in Sorrow in Born of the Gods, my deck is going to get steamrolled by Mono-Black. I am just wondering, should I transition into Big Red, splash white for Boros, or just switch to a different deck entirely?
I actually don't think Drown In Sorrow will do too much to effect your deck. The main thing you're going to have to learn how to do is simply just not over extend.
It's weird that you have a bad matchup against mono-black as it is. Mono-black's primary weakness is linear beatdown decks that take advantage of the extra 4-6 points of damage black does to itself. Being very aggressive also forces black to use removal over building up devotion, making gary less effective. What you don't have and never will is inevitability, which has a tendency to make every matchup feel a lot more awful than it really is.
How on earth is monoblack your worst matchup? RDW is favoured against monoblack. Monoblue and possibly the big green devotion decks are your worst matchups.
Normally, I am able to kill a mono-black deck on turn 4. But if I don't, and if they land a Desecration Demon, then that is when things get painfully frustrating.
I actually don't think Drown In Sorrow will do too much to effect your deck. The main thing you're going to have to learn how to do is simply just not over extend.
Overextending is how I am currently able to kill a mono-black deck by turn 4. When this card gets added to the mono-black arsenal, I won't be able to finish the game on turn 4, which probably means I have to prepare for a longer game. My deck in its current form does not do as well in longer games.
Normally, I am able to kill a mono-black deck on turn 4. But if I don't, and if they land a Desecration Demon, then that is when things get painfully frustrating.
Usually by turn 4 they should be down a lot of life. If they use their resources to play a Demon, throw down a creature, sac it to tap it down and swing with everything. Hopefully it's enough to kill them outright. The REAL problem card vs mono black is Gray Merchant. That guy is gg against RDW unfortunately.
Overextending is how I am currently able to kill a mono-black deck by turn 4. When this card gets added to the mono-black arsenal, I won't be able to finish the game on turn 4, which probably means I have to prepare for a longer game. My deck in its current form does not do as well in longer games.
It might help if you post your decklist, as not sure what to suggest without knowing what you play
I definitely see why you're going to have some problems with Mono black after Born of the Gods, given a lot of your creature base is 2/2.
How do you find the matchup when you board in Boros Reckoner? I always found that helped when I was playing anything red, but I'm currently running Devotion rather than the traditional RDW.
Let's see what the rest of the spoilers say, hopefully there's some protection against it but it's possible weenie decks might need to adapt in order to handle decks like Mono B.
All right, instead of fully transitioning to Big Red, I am thinking of making some slight changes so I can still swarm a mono-black deck.
Proposed list:
Remove 4 Burning-Tree Emissary. Replace with 2 Hammer of Purphoros and either 2 Stormbreath Dragon or 2 Mutavault (haven't decided yet).
22 creatures
4 Rakdos cackler
4 Firefist striker
4 Ash zealot
4 Chandra's phoenix
4 Fanatic of mogis
2 Stormbreath dragon
16 other spells
4 Shock
4 Magma jet
4 Lightning strike
2 Hammer of purphoros
2 Chandra, pyromaster
Willing to accept feedback regarding this game-plan against mono-black.
Turn 1: Rakdos Cackler
Turn 2: Firefist Striker (if on play) or Ash Zealot (if on draw)
Turn 3: Hammer of Purphoros (if on play) or Chandra's Phoenix (if on draw)
Turn 4: Fanatic of Mogis (if on play or if have Hammer) or Chandra, Pyromaster (if on draw or if bird died)
Turn 5: Stormbreath Dragon, ride to victory
P.S. Granted, as the saying goes in the movie 21, "always account for variable change."
I'm in a similar boat to you. I mainly play R/w Devotion or WW splash Black, and Drown in Sorrow has me sweating. The only "counter" to DoS I see for Red or White is Fortify, or Profit // Loss with X/2 creatures... white not having many X/2s, but with a few on the way. (The two spoiled cats, Hero of iroas)
I'm considering B/W Midrange or the more cost-effective, I've-got-mostly-everything Big Boros. The only way I could afford to run B/W would be to trade off some of my WW or Red
Loyalist (1 power) is not better than Cackler (2 power). Just wow.
"Wow" right back atcha, champ. There's more to a card than just power. First off, loyalist can block if needed. Second, it has haste. Third, it has an awesome Battalion ability.
Imagine your in a class room. The class is on maths. The teacher asks "what is 2 plus 2?".
You answer "1". Someone to your right "answers 12". Yet someone else says "43".
Everyone can have an opinion. That doesn't mean much. Rakdos Cackler is absolutely the best red 1 drop and it isn't close. It has been consistently a 4-of in every iteration of competitive red since it was spoiled. Loyalist saw limited play in Block Constructed.
As a 2-power creature (with 2 toughness) it is substantially more aggressive and consistent.
Turning to Loyalist's ability:
- haste: worth less than 2 power, 1 damage a turn isn't very good
- can block: not at all relevant. Cackler comes out in any matchup where you would want to play defensively, and the extra damage it will deal means you're less likely to ever need to block.
- Battalion: not currently relevant in any matchup.
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If you're blocking, you've already lost. The only time (generally) the usual RDW list actually isn't the beatdown is when it's facing the even more extreme Tom Ross lists.
Second, it has haste.
Cackler does more damage after only 1 hit. A 1/1 is just.. not scary in the slightest. When I'm playing a slower deck, I actually have to pay attention to 2/Xs.
Third, it has an awesome Battalion ability.
Battalion ability is basically irrelevant right now. If Master of Waves lands, you're already dead. If Pack rat has 3 copies out, you're already dead. Loyalist is fine vs. Selesnya, but that a pretty fringe deck and isn't all that successful unless your name is Andrew Shrout.
RDW is all about maximizing early game card-to-damage efficiency, and Loyalist just fundamentally isn't very efficient.
Preach it, redbro! Auto 4-of in every red deck, from here to the end of time.
But seriously if Loyalist was a 2/1 then this is another story altogether. But its a 1/1 and needs dudes and pump spells to be good. Why dilute your deck? Just play a better threat for the mana.
"Wow" right back atcha, champ. There's more to a card than just power. First off, loyalist can block if needed. Second, it has haste. Third, it has an awesome Battalion ability.
1. Cackler can also block as needed since Unleash is optional. Wow.
2. A 1/1 with haste will take 20 turns to kill an opponent. A 2/2 will take 10 turns. Ever get beaten to death by a Mutavault? Amazing.
3. A 1/1 with trample and first strike is truly terrifying. Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
All right guys, to each his own opinion about Rakdos Cackler vs Legion Loyalist. We have some good dicussion going on so please be civil to each other (it would be a shame for this to turn into a flame war and then the mods come and end the thread).
I'm in a similar boat to you. I mainly play R/w Devotion or WW splash Black, and Drown in Sorrow has me sweating. The only "counter" to DoS I see for Red or White is Fortify, or Profit // Loss with X/2 creatures... white not having many X/2s, but with a few on the way. (The two spoiled cats, Hero of iroas)
I'm considering B/W Midrange or the more cost-effective, I've-got-mostly-everything Big Boros. The only way I could afford to run B/W would be to trade off some of my WW or Red
as usual, you should wait until a full set is spoiled before you make conjections about what will and will not be influential in standard.
with that said, I'd be surprised if RDW continues to be a "deck" in standard. As with each set, creatures become increasingly relevant and the WW strategy really prevails. I'd look at transforming into Boros going forward and this is not really the result of one card like "Drown in Sorrow," which I doubt will even make it into MBC lists.
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Standard
WUW/U HumansUW
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Normally, I am able to kill a mono-black deck on turn 4. But if I don't, and if they land a Desecration Demon, then that is when things get painfully frustrating.
Overextending is how I am currently able to kill a mono-black deck by turn 4. When this card gets added to the mono-black arsenal, I won't be able to finish the game on turn 4, which probably means I have to prepare for a longer game. My deck in its current form does not do as well in longer games.
Usually by turn 4 they should be down a lot of life. If they use their resources to play a Demon, throw down a creature, sac it to tap it down and swing with everything. Hopefully it's enough to kill them outright. The REAL problem card vs mono black is Gray Merchant. That guy is gg against RDW unfortunately.
It might help if you post your decklist, as not sure what to suggest without knowing what you play
I am thinking of taking out the Turn // Burn and Steam Vents because I want to add a couple copies of Burning Earth for Esper Mill.
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firefist Striker
4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis
24 creatures
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Turn // Burn
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
14 other spells
2 Mutavault
4 Steam Vents
16 Mountains
22 lands
Sideboard:
1 Mutavault
2 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Skullcrack
I definitely see why you're going to have some problems with Mono black after Born of the Gods, given a lot of your creature base is 2/2.
How do you find the matchup when you board in Boros Reckoner? I always found that helped when I was playing anything red, but I'm currently running Devotion rather than the traditional RDW.
Let's see what the rest of the spoilers say, hopefully there's some protection against it but it's possible weenie decks might need to adapt in order to handle decks like Mono B.
Proposed list:
Remove 4 Burning-Tree Emissary. Replace with 2 Hammer of Purphoros and either 2 Stormbreath Dragon or 2 Mutavault (haven't decided yet).
22 creatures
4 Rakdos cackler
4 Firefist striker
4 Ash zealot
4 Chandra's phoenix
4 Fanatic of mogis
2 Stormbreath dragon
16 other spells
4 Shock
4 Magma jet
4 Lightning strike
2 Hammer of purphoros
2 Chandra, pyromaster
22 Lands
20 Mountain
2 Mutavault
Sideboard
4 Boros reckoner
4 Searing blaze
4 Skullcrack
3 Burning earth
Turn 1: Rakdos Cackler
Turn 2: Firefist Striker (if on play) or Ash Zealot (if on draw)
Turn 3: Hammer of Purphoros (if on play) or Chandra's Phoenix (if on draw)
Turn 4: Fanatic of Mogis (if on play or if have Hammer) or Chandra, Pyromaster (if on draw or if bird died)
Turn 5: Stormbreath Dragon, ride to victory
P.S. Granted, as the saying goes in the movie 21, "always account for variable change."
Don't splash blue for Turn // Burn, that's so bad.
Loyalist (1 power) is not better than Cackler (2 power). Just wow.
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I'm considering B/W Midrange or the more cost-effective, I've-got-mostly-everything Big Boros. The only way I could afford to run B/W would be to trade off some of my WW or Red
Anyways, my Red Deck:
There's a Big Boros deck that took first a few days ago that I may draw inspiration from, thought I'm not big on Purphoros.
Any opinions on R/B built around Mogis/Burn? Seems like a could-be-feasable alternative. Any advice/speculation is appreciated.
"Wow" right back atcha, champ. There's more to a card than just power. First off, loyalist can block if needed. Second, it has haste. Third, it has an awesome Battalion ability.
You answer "1". Someone to your right "answers 12". Yet someone else says "43".
Everyone can have an opinion. That doesn't mean much. Rakdos Cackler is absolutely the best red 1 drop and it isn't close. It has been consistently a 4-of in every iteration of competitive red since it was spoiled. Loyalist saw limited play in Block Constructed.
As a 2-power creature (with 2 toughness) it is substantially more aggressive and consistent.
Turning to Loyalist's ability:
- haste: worth less than 2 power, 1 damage a turn isn't very good
- can block: not at all relevant. Cackler comes out in any matchup where you would want to play defensively, and the extra damage it will deal means you're less likely to ever need to block.
- Battalion: not currently relevant in any matchup.
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If you're blocking, you've already lost. The only time (generally) the usual RDW list actually isn't the beatdown is when it's facing the even more extreme Tom Ross lists.
Cackler does more damage after only 1 hit. A 1/1 is just.. not scary in the slightest. When I'm playing a slower deck, I actually have to pay attention to 2/Xs.
Battalion ability is basically irrelevant right now. If Master of Waves lands, you're already dead. If Pack rat has 3 copies out, you're already dead. Loyalist is fine vs. Selesnya, but that a pretty fringe deck and isn't all that successful unless your name is Andrew Shrout.
RDW is all about maximizing early game card-to-damage efficiency, and Loyalist just fundamentally isn't very efficient.
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Tell me in what way and form will Loyalist help against Mono Black.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
But seriously if Loyalist was a 2/1 then this is another story altogether. But its a 1/1 and needs dudes and pump spells to be good. Why dilute your deck? Just play a better threat for the mana.
1. Cackler can also block as needed since Unleash is optional. Wow.
2. A 1/1 with haste will take 20 turns to kill an opponent. A 2/2 will take 10 turns. Ever get beaten to death by a Mutavault? Amazing.
3. A 1/1 with trample and first strike is truly terrifying. Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Enlighten us more, please.
Trolling
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and you are here to stay and burn with me.
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Fair enough.
Spear of Heliod would do the trick perhaps?
with that said, I'd be surprised if RDW continues to be a "deck" in standard. As with each set, creatures become increasingly relevant and the WW strategy really prevails. I'd look at transforming into Boros going forward and this is not really the result of one card like "Drown in Sorrow," which I doubt will even make it into MBC lists.