Can we at least acknowledge that mill *should* be a viable strategy and has not been in a very long time. Cards like this should make people happy because it opens doors to a route of winning games that doesn't involve creature smash or all-out control.
Yeah, because last year was so long ago. Nephalia Drownyard was in the business of ending games not that long ago. I don't mind mill being a strategy, but I wish WotC would do more to acknowledge the large segment of its fan base that like to play U/B but doesn't want to attack the library.
Green dude is bad btw for those who are thinking it's good. In order for it to do anything, you need not only a spell to enable heroic, but also some spare mana lying around on top of what you've already invested in triggering heroic in the first place. Very tempo negative to play for what poses as an aggressive card. At least the other heroic cards (risky as they can be) can be triggered cheaply and efficiently creating large beaters very early in the game. This guy can attack for 3 on turn 2, but requires a metric ton of setup at the cost of not developing your board any further. As Adrian Sullivan has said, It's not wise to put all your eggie weggies in one basket (especially in a format as chock full of good removal as the one we're currently looking at).
Turn 2: Murmuring Phantasm/Doorkeeper.
Turn 3: Wall of Frost.
Turn 4: Wall of Frost.
Turn 5: Phenax, mill half your deck.
Turn 6: Yay, I win!
(That's without even trying to abuse the card. I have some nasty, mean combos cooked up already)
I like the way you think. I for one will be trying to break Phenax as hard as possible. I have no idea if it'll work but at the very least I'll be able to pick up the cards cheap because lots of people don't seem to be impressed
As for the green 1 drop I like it. No idea if it'll see play in anything constructed but in limited at the very least it helps if you're in the late game and you have him and top deck a dragon's mantle or something similar
The blue card makes me want to build a lovecraftian horror deck... But I think that'll have to wait until after the Phenax Wall of Mill.
Because Mono-U Devotion just loves to return all of its devotion enablers to its hand.
If only it were possible to engineer a situation in which I could get value out of my board state and then play this, buying me a turn or more against my opponents army of Pack Rats. A man can dream...
Whelming Wave: I like it a lot, we needed a reliable blue board wipe of sorts. I like Aetherize, but often times it doesn't take care of what you need it to.
Phenax: Yes, I really wish he wasn't mill. However, he is really good mill. Harder to kill than Jace, Memory Adept and can easily mill more than 10 each turn as long as you have 2 big toughness creatures out, along with the fact that he has 7 toughness once turned on. Stick him in a deck with Consuming Aberration, Ashiok, defenders and a little removal and counters and voila, you have a mill deck that might actually work.
Hero of Leina Tower: Happy that green now has a low cost hero, especially because green has some nice heroic enablers (Reap What Is Sown, Ordeal of Nylea, Warriors’ Lesson.) Will try to make a G/X hero deck with this in it. Maybe GB or GU.
Whelming Wave is really cool. Fairly costed burst of tempo. Shame it's got to compete with Supreme Verdict and/or Cyclonic Rift in T2, but I'm sure someone's dusting off their Quest for Ula's Temple somewhere.
Well, Whelming Wave does deal with indestructible creatures. However, if any of them are gods and there non-creature permanents, tough, haha.
I am actually disappointed in Wizards R&D with Phenax, and I'm not a U/B player.
Dimir may have been all about milling but black only has 15 mono colored cards that have text including: "put the top card of library into graveyard", are not from RAV or RTR block cards. Four of the remaining cards aren't actually 'milling' and one of the 15 is a unhinged card.
Black has much more available effects, and they could have mixed a black effect with a blue effect rather then taking a mostly blue effect and using it again.
They could have at done something with discard, or are they saving that for the W/B or G/B god? Neither of which discard fits with.
I would have preferred:
Phenax, God of Deception 3UB
Indestructible
Blah blah devotion
Whenever an opponent casts a spell they may discard a card, if they don't, put the top 2-3 cards of that player's library into their graveyard.
What the heck are you talking about? I was making a joke. If you want to get all English major on me you should learn that any foreign word that enters the English language is inflected as AN ENGLISH word. So really its origins are irrelevant.
First of all, I'm not an English major, nor do I feel it's necessary to be one in order to have a solid grasp of one's native language. Second of all, there's no way to know when someone around here is joking, so perhaps you should craft your future comments in a way that's a little less snarky. Third of all, word origins, in any context or language, are as far from irrelevant as you could possibly imagine. You're completely diminishing an entire field of study, etymology, because... why? Because you don't want to be wrong? Words don't just magically appear out of thin air, and deliberately ignoring their history because "hurr durr, it's English now" is a poor way to justify their misuse.
Oh, and just so you know, all of English is foreign. It's a combination of Anglo-Saxon German and 11th century French.
R&D member # 1 - "ALRIGHT GUYS! We need to make another UB card. But this time, it has to be epic. We've heard complaints in the past, so this time, we're here to rectify those mistakes. Any suggestions?"
R&D member # 2 - "Well, it definitely has to be a splashy card. And something out of the ordinary. It shouldn't be something we do too often."
R&D member # 1 - "I agree."
R&D member # 3 - "Well, lets get to the basics. Blue and Black like to control the game. They are both good at drawing cards, and removing threats, though in different ways."
R&D member # 2 - "Hm. We could do a scry abiltiy, so control decks can get through their library faster--"
R&D member # 1 - "Thassa."
R&D member # 2 - "Oh right. Maybe a Necropotence or Greed ability?
R&D member # 1 - "Erebos."
R&D member # 2 - "Damn...."
R&D member # 3 - "Blue and black are the kings of evasion...could we do something along those lines? Oh wait, that's Thassa too..."
R&D member # 1 - "**** man..."
R&D member # 2 - "Guess we're doing mill again...."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
As someone who really enjoys his UB mill deck, and has played one for 8 YEARS, i was disappointed that phenax was a mill card. I'll still use him, but i was really hoping for something else, even if it was just some draw and discard gimmick. *sigh*
Ugh, now that all the minor gods have been revealed I'm really disappointed as a whole. None of them feel like gods. I'd rather them be overcosted and have interesting/cool effects than the generic uninspired garbage we got for this cycle. Doesn't bode well for the JIN gods either unfortunately. Also Hero of Leina Tower is another dud rare for constructed.
Mogis is actually decent, and not an effect that we see frequently.
I'd just like to point out that Phenax combos with the best one-drop miller ever Hedron Crab which is . . . well . . . it's still crap, just crap.
This thing is a bomb in limited though, so at least if you keep it there he might win you a couple packs to open something worth playing in constructed?
I think all the cards are good. The God is slow but powerful. The green card has lots of combat dominating potential with the right spells. The blue card is also great in the right deck. None of the cards are all that by themselves, but definitely dominating in the right deck.
Constructed:
I don't view UB God as good for any constructed means. For casual decks I think it's great. Here's why I don't think it will influence constructed much:
Seven devotion is not easy to attain. It requires multiple permanents.
You need a lot of toughness to mill them quickly.
It costs five, and without devotion it is just a bad enchantment.
If it is actually any good, it can be exiled/countered in numerous ways.
The green one drop is fine, but IDK about constructed worthy. It is turn one play with no limits on how big it gets (I sort of think of it like Figure of Destiny, but you need spells to build it up). Green constructed and spells don't often go hand in hand. Name a good green deck with 12+ creature targeting spells in it?
The wave is cool, it should see play in sideboards at the very least. It's interesting since Cyclonic Rift is already a thing. However, this is more aggressively pushed and is a sorcery. The first card I compare it with is ***, as it is a 4 mana sorcery mass removal. The extra clause has little constructed merit unless there are some staple sea-creatures I don't know about. Still it is an excellent card for control.
Oh, yes... yes. Kiora, and Phenax, and Prophet of Kruphix... Axebane Guardian, Sylvan Caryatid, and their wall friends... a couple of Prime Speaker Zeganas for card draw. And there's still room for counterspells and pinpoint removal.
Yeah, because last year was so long ago. Nephalia Drownyard was in the business of ending games not that long ago. I don't mind mill being a strategy, but I wish WotC would do more to acknowledge the large segment of its fan base that like to play U/B but doesn't want to attack the library.
Green dude is bad btw for those who are thinking it's good. In order for it to do anything, you need not only a spell to enable heroic, but also some spare mana lying around on top of what you've already invested in triggering heroic in the first place. Very tempo negative to play for what poses as an aggressive card. At least the other heroic cards (risky as they can be) can be triggered cheaply and efficiently creating large beaters very early in the game. This guy can attack for 3 on turn 2, but requires a metric ton of setup at the cost of not developing your board any further. As Adrian Sullivan has said, It's not wise to put all your eggie weggies in one basket (especially in a format as chock full of good removal as the one we're currently looking at).
...they've never banned a card from limited, EVER. This card will not change that.
I like the way you think. I for one will be trying to break Phenax as hard as possible. I have no idea if it'll work but at the very least I'll be able to pick up the cards cheap because lots of people don't seem to be impressed
As for the green 1 drop I like it. No idea if it'll see play in anything constructed but in limited at the very least it helps if you're in the late game and you have him and top deck a dragon's mantle or something similar
The blue card makes me want to build a lovecraftian horror deck... But I think that'll have to wait until after the Phenax Wall of Mill.
Oh, so you're that guy.
If only it were possible to engineer a situation in which I could get value out of my board state and then play this, buying me a turn or more against my opponents army of Pack Rats. A man can dream...
Phenax: Yes, I really wish he wasn't mill. However, he is really good mill. Harder to kill than Jace, Memory Adept and can easily mill more than 10 each turn as long as you have 2 big toughness creatures out, along with the fact that he has 7 toughness once turned on. Stick him in a deck with Consuming Aberration, Ashiok, defenders and a little removal and counters and voila, you have a mill deck that might actually work.
Hero of Leina Tower: Happy that green now has a low cost hero, especially because green has some nice heroic enablers (Reap What Is Sown, Ordeal of Nylea, Warriors’ Lesson.) Will try to make a G/X hero deck with this in it. Maybe GB or GU.
Lovingly, from that stalwart of the truth and all that is good, Wiktionary.
Jesus Christ, it's not as though you octopi people insist on sphinges or really know your Latin and Greek.
Well, Whelming Wave does deal with indestructible creatures. However, if any of them are gods and there non-creature permanents, tough, haha.
Dimir may have been all about milling but black only has 15 mono colored cards that have text including: "put the top card of library into graveyard", are not from RAV or RTR block cards. Four of the remaining cards aren't actually 'milling' and one of the 15 is a unhinged card.
Black has much more available effects, and they could have mixed a black effect with a blue effect rather then taking a mostly blue effect and using it again.
They could have at done something with discard, or are they saving that for the W/B or G/B god? Neither of which discard fits with.
I would have preferred:
Phenax, God of Deception 3UB
Indestructible
Blah blah devotion
Whenever an opponent casts a spell they may discard a card, if they don't, put the top 2-3 cards of that player's library into their graveyard.
First of all, I'm not an English major, nor do I feel it's necessary to be one in order to have a solid grasp of one's native language. Second of all, there's no way to know when someone around here is joking, so perhaps you should craft your future comments in a way that's a little less snarky. Third of all, word origins, in any context or language, are as far from irrelevant as you could possibly imagine. You're completely diminishing an entire field of study, etymology, because... why? Because you don't want to be wrong? Words don't just magically appear out of thin air, and deliberately ignoring their history because "hurr durr, it's English now" is a poor way to justify their misuse.
Oh, and just so you know, all of English is foreign. It's a combination of Anglo-Saxon German and 11th century French.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
And that's why I had to say "virtually" every U/B mill card. Glimpse the Unthinkable is pretty much the exception that proves the rule.
R&D member # 2 - "Well, it definitely has to be a splashy card. And something out of the ordinary. It shouldn't be something we do too often."
R&D member # 1 - "I agree."
R&D member # 3 - "Well, lets get to the basics. Blue and Black like to control the game. They are both good at drawing cards, and removing threats, though in different ways."
R&D member # 2 - "Hm. We could do a scry abiltiy, so control decks can get through their library faster--"
R&D member # 1 - "Thassa."
R&D member # 2 - "Oh right. Maybe a Necropotence or Greed ability?
R&D member # 1 - "Erebos."
R&D member # 2 - "Damn...."
R&D member # 3 - "Blue and black are the kings of evasion...could we do something along those lines? Oh wait, that's Thassa too..."
R&D member # 1 - "**** man..."
R&D member # 2 - "Guess we're doing mill again...."
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess... whining
Mogis is actually decent, and not an effect that we see frequently.
Phenax is not a bad god. It is just narrow.
One could argue he turns on inspired.
Maybe we should blame inspired.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
This thing is a bomb in limited though, so at least if you keep it there he might win you a couple packs to open something worth playing in constructed?
We're still trying I believe.
Because he goes with the flow. P)
I think all the cards are good. The God is slow but powerful. The green card has lots of combat dominating potential with the right spells. The blue card is also great in the right deck. None of the cards are all that by themselves, but definitely dominating in the right deck.
Constructed:
I don't view UB God as good for any constructed means. For casual decks I think it's great. Here's why I don't think it will influence constructed much:
The green one drop is fine, but IDK about constructed worthy. It is turn one play with no limits on how big it gets (I sort of think of it like Figure of Destiny, but you need spells to build it up). Green constructed and spells don't often go hand in hand. Name a good green deck with 12+ creature targeting spells in it?
The wave is cool, it should see play in sideboards at the very least. It's interesting since Cyclonic Rift is already a thing. However, this is more aggressively pushed and is a sorcery. The first card I compare it with is ***, as it is a 4 mana sorcery mass removal. The extra clause has little constructed merit unless there are some staple sea-creatures I don't know about. Still it is an excellent card for control.
This is reasoning for anything. Ever.
This is going to be such a dirty deck.
WotC, please hire me already.