A four turn clock???!?!? did you knock that in the time it took you to mill some one to death with phenax and demon you could just hit them with the creatures you are using to mill and win in 2-4 turns depending on demon triggers?
I live in the real world, where I can reasonably expect Demon to get tapped down and need a blocker.
Xenagos on the other hand doesn't even care if you cast him after your beater, he's still gonna pump it and half the clock you need to win with that one lonely creature.
If you happen to top deck something like an arbor colossus or another large monster its even better, as you now get to hit them for a ridiculous amount of damage straight of the bat, thus keeping the pressure on them should they lack removal.
I live in the real world, where I can reasonably assume my opponent has a minimum of a 1/1 creature on the board.
You want phenax to be good so you're trying to find these odd and frankly silly situations where he is good, but 20 life is much easier to get to 0 than 40+ cards in a constructed format.
I wanted Phenax to be something other than mill; I like mill. I enjoy it. But the color pairing does need everything to be mill.
That said, as far as mill is concerned this is possibly one of the strongest forms I can think of, aside from some sort of infinite loop. As I said, Phenax can fill the roll of a standard sort of creature in many decks, but is incredibly strong couple with certain cheap large to the rear creatures. It gives another avenue of attack, for cheap (Given the only cost is tapping a creature, at instant speed no less).
Is Xenagos "better"? Yes. I feel he is massively overhyped, and anybody who thinks swinging with an arbitrarily large dood is the best thing in the world isn't thinking straight; He's fine when you are in top-deck mode (But certainly not phenomenal unless your opponent Verdicted the turn before), but is largely a good means of applying immediate pressure with creatures as well as making your mediocre support cards into actual threats (Many G/x devotion decks run BTE solely due to its interaction with Nykthos; they are quickly outclassed and Xenagos allows you to swing with multiple large threats; I would almost always want to swing with a 4/4 and 5/5 over swinging with a 2/2 and a 10/10). But that's neither here nor there.
The point is that Phenax is quite potent at what he does; he provides an incredible clock utilizing creatures that normally have drawbacks that would prevent you from winning quickly with damage in certain MUs.
Well on a less judgmental note if you can get Phenax and Consuming Aberration out at the same time you basically win.
Haha, good point. The only real concern is both those cards cost 5. However for casual this is quick awesome. If you have devotion then it will kill them VERY quickly. If you also have milled them earlier in the game it will kill them VERY quickly also.
Haha, good point. The only real concern is both those cards cost 5. However for casual this is quick awesome. If you have devotion then it will kill them VERY quickly. If you also have milled them earlier in the game it will kill them VERY quickly also.
Whelming Wave is the current front runner for Worst Flavor Text 2014. Are they even trying?
I didn't notice this until you pointed it out. Lol. I have learned to never pay attention to "flavor text"...more like "that italic stuff at the bottom."
The problem with mill isn't that it is bad, it is that there simply isn't usually enough support for the strategy to be viable at the highest levels. Just because people can't fathom the possibility of mill being an *actual* strategy doesn't mean that it can't.
My problem is that, rather then print decent mill cards in one set, they seem to need to print mill cards in multiple sets because they apparently don't know what would make mill strong without being broken, and therefor need to 'build up' to strong mill cards.
My problem is that, rather then print decent mill cards in one set, they seem to need to print mill cards in multiple sets because they apparently don't know what would make mill strong without being broken, and therefor need to 'build up' to strong mill cards.
They CAN'T print strong mill cards because they break limited. Mill can not be viable as anything other than a Drownyard wincon. Phenax is a different type of mill. I don't know why it's so hard for people to see that.
god of deceptions..... at least his name fits perfectly :'( common wizzard that is just a kick in my balls....and why in hell does he cost 5?????? even at 3cmc he is not that good -_- ashiok is way bether and she is kinda meh.... (im a modern player only)
edit: the only thing i could think of is phenax + consuming aberation in a multiplayer game and even there i dont think it will be that good
Kalanian hydra and Polis crusher are both pretty good cards that love having haste :).
If your demon is getting tapped on a consistent basis then you are already losing and trying to race with mill isn't going to happen.
But by all means to continue to think this card is good, I'll gladly take any copies of karametra or Xenegos off of your hands for the pile of crap that is generic UB mill card #50
I have seen games won where Demon gets tapped down continuously. It's not unfeasible.
If I get Karametra, you can certainly have as many 1-for-1 trades for Phenax. Karametra is absolutely garbage, and has only slight applications (maybe) in Commander.
Further, I am saying this card has *potential*. I think you are undervaluing how strong cheap, repeatable, mass-enabling, instant-speed Mill can be, particularly when on something that can actually reasonably be a creature in the colors (Blue and Black are the easiest to get devotion right now, followed closely by Green-which is shoddy many times).
And I think you are completely missing everything I said about Xenagos. I would also like to point out that Kalonian Hydra is just not a good fit for current lists that would run Xenagos. The deck lists are already having consistency problems not raw-power problems. They don't need more raw-power, and given the nature of the Gods Xenagos is unlikely to break more than 1-2 copies in any deck. The only god who does is Thassa, but that deck has very consistent means of making extra copies go away (With scry) or simply gain tons of CA to make the extra copies less of a bother (Bident). Xenagos, for all his potential, simply doesn't improve the decklists in a significant enough manner to warrant itself as a 4-of. Extra copies are not nearly as easy to filter out, as many decklists have opted to run fewer Garruks (Due to being massively Expensive). Point is, Hydra is amazing with Xenagos and barely mediocre without him. Increasing the inconsistency of an already inconsistent archetype is not where you want to be. Sure, you can steal some wins out of nowhere with him and the Hydra but in actual competitive environments I highly doubt Hydra will show up any more than it already does(Which is barely at all).
Phenax is just so bad the only way people can defend him is by telling you to play bad walls....
He's garbage in the only constructed format I play and I'll laugh when people cast him in EDH, the only place he might see play is in self mill mimeoplasm (but then again why run that when hermit druid and friends are better and don't cost 5 mana).
It is not just his lack of playability that annoys me, its the fact the once again wizards takes the easy route and just slaps a mill ability on a UB card and calls it a day.
I was hoping for maybe another utility legend for UB, but I guess the Faeries,Kraken and Shapeshifter legends of UB have nothing to sweat.
To be fair, Lazav decks and Wrexial decks will also like him quite a bit.
Possible curve off the top of my head.... Frostburn Weird, Wall of Frost, Coastline Chimera, Phenax mill 16 then untap and mill another 23 leaving around 8-9 cards in their library. Triton Tactics and Prophet of Kruphix like Phenax too. Not a bad start for no real thought into making the deck actually work.
Whelming wave: terrible. It's sorcery speed. Not competitive playable but I can see it in mediocre FNM decks.
Phenax: This is a strong card because it allows for a lot of options. I really like this card, and it's really good especially with Drownyard rotating. This is strong and brings new control archetypes and synergies to the playing field. Anyone who automatically assumed phenax's ability is bad, needs to rethink what they said :)!
The one drop is pretty cute. I don't think it's amazing and being a human warrior makes it even worse. I think if it was an elf it would be amazing.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lathia: Spam again. I swear its contagious.
iRebel: The person who develops the SPAM vaccine will be a billionaire, I swear it..
Spammer: Deck = BAD
iRebel: SPAM = BAD
EDH UThada Adel AcquisitorU GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
Phenax is actually kind of fantastic looking. Wall of Denial sure becomes scary.
In other news, Giant Octopus continues to try to be relevant with the hip new cards that Wizards printed. Lagac Lizard was not seen to give comment, but Canyon Minotaur was pleased with recent events as well...
my blue black heroics deck which has a good matchup against 'creature based removalless decks' top 8'ed my last standard event... apparently removal is a rare thing
Hey, sometimes you get beached.
I live in the real world, where I can reasonably expect Demon to get tapped down and need a blocker.
I live in the real world, where I can reasonably assume my opponent has a minimum of a 1/1 creature on the board.
I wanted Phenax to be something other than mill; I like mill. I enjoy it. But the color pairing does need everything to be mill.
That said, as far as mill is concerned this is possibly one of the strongest forms I can think of, aside from some sort of infinite loop. As I said, Phenax can fill the roll of a standard sort of creature in many decks, but is incredibly strong couple with certain cheap large to the rear creatures. It gives another avenue of attack, for cheap (Given the only cost is tapping a creature, at instant speed no less).
Is Xenagos "better"? Yes. I feel he is massively overhyped, and anybody who thinks swinging with an arbitrarily large dood is the best thing in the world isn't thinking straight; He's fine when you are in top-deck mode (But certainly not phenomenal unless your opponent Verdicted the turn before), but is largely a good means of applying immediate pressure with creatures as well as making your mediocre support cards into actual threats (Many G/x devotion decks run BTE solely due to its interaction with Nykthos; they are quickly outclassed and Xenagos allows you to swing with multiple large threats; I would almost always want to swing with a 4/4 and 5/5 over swinging with a 2/2 and a 10/10). But that's neither here nor there.
The point is that Phenax is quite potent at what he does; he provides an incredible clock utilizing creatures that normally have drawbacks that would prevent you from winning quickly with damage in certain MUs.
Haha, good point. The only real concern is both those cards cost 5. However for casual this is quick awesome. If you have devotion then it will kill them VERY quickly. If you also have milled them earlier in the game it will kill them VERY quickly also.
I want to like the green guy but he seems to be doing completely incompatible things.
All your Ice Age Foil Basics are belong to us
If you have any foil 7ED Island #334 I am very interested!
I also live in a world with no removal.
I didn't notice this until you pointed it out. Lol. I have learned to never pay attention to "flavor text"...more like "that italic stuff at the bottom."
Ahhhh a Johnny. Or a sarcastic mofo. Either way, magic becomes a bit more interesting in this world. But less cutthroat and competitive.
Which probably means the mechanic was born first.
"These Gods are designed to be very powerful—in the niche they're targeted for" - Gavin Verhey
We can thus deduce that to Wizards, Dimir --> mill
Zzzzzzz
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
The word you're looking for is Spike. If you want to use a word to look down on someone try picking the right one.
My problem is that, rather then print decent mill cards in one set, they seem to need to print mill cards in multiple sets because they apparently don't know what would make mill strong without being broken, and therefor need to 'build up' to strong mill cards.
They CAN'T print strong mill cards because they break limited. Mill can not be viable as anything other than a Drownyard wincon. Phenax is a different type of mill. I don't know why it's so hard for people to see that.
edit: the only thing i could think of is phenax + consuming aberation in a multiplayer game and even there i dont think it will be that good
top 5 anime of all time (tv, not books because dragon ball would be first)
1. Sword art online 2. Fairy tail 3. Naruto(shipuden) 4. Bleach 5. Claymore
I have seen games won where Demon gets tapped down continuously. It's not unfeasible.
If I get Karametra, you can certainly have as many 1-for-1 trades for Phenax. Karametra is absolutely garbage, and has only slight applications (maybe) in Commander.
Further, I am saying this card has *potential*. I think you are undervaluing how strong cheap, repeatable, mass-enabling, instant-speed Mill can be, particularly when on something that can actually reasonably be a creature in the colors (Blue and Black are the easiest to get devotion right now, followed closely by Green-which is shoddy many times).
And I think you are completely missing everything I said about Xenagos. I would also like to point out that Kalonian Hydra is just not a good fit for current lists that would run Xenagos. The deck lists are already having consistency problems not raw-power problems. They don't need more raw-power, and given the nature of the Gods Xenagos is unlikely to break more than 1-2 copies in any deck. The only god who does is Thassa, but that deck has very consistent means of making extra copies go away (With scry) or simply gain tons of CA to make the extra copies less of a bother (Bident). Xenagos, for all his potential, simply doesn't improve the decklists in a significant enough manner to warrant itself as a 4-of. Extra copies are not nearly as easy to filter out, as many decklists have opted to run fewer Garruks (Due to being massively Expensive). Point is, Hydra is amazing with Xenagos and barely mediocre without him. Increasing the inconsistency of an already inconsistent archetype is not where you want to be. Sure, you can steal some wins out of nowhere with him and the Hydra but in actual competitive environments I highly doubt Hydra will show up any more than it already does(Which is barely at all).
To be fair, Lazav decks and Wrexial decks will also like him quite a bit.
Whelming wave: terrible. It's sorcery speed. Not competitive playable but I can see it in mediocre FNM decks.
Phenax: This is a strong card because it allows for a lot of options. I really like this card, and it's really good especially with Drownyard rotating. This is strong and brings new control archetypes and synergies to the playing field. Anyone who automatically assumed phenax's ability is bad, needs to rethink what they said :)!
The one drop is pretty cute. I don't think it's amazing and being a human warrior makes it even worse. I think if it was an elf it would be amazing.
UThada Adel AcquisitorU
GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG
GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
In other news, Giant Octopus continues to try to be relevant with the hip new cards that Wizards printed. Lagac Lizard was not seen to give comment, but Canyon Minotaur was pleased with recent events as well...
my blue black heroics deck which has a good matchup against 'creature based removalless decks' top 8'ed my last standard event... apparently removal is a rare thing
Save the Whales!!!
.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver