Could someone clarify as to what exactly a "hipster" is? I hear the term used often and every time I ask about it I get quite a few conflicting answers.
The definition I've known for the past few years is best explained by the line "I used to like [insert band, movie, etc], but then it got too mainstream" or, "I was into [insert band, movie, etc] before they became cool."
Loaded question, really. From what I can tell, it's basically the definition of a counter-culture. A title given to someone who claims to have liked something before it big enough for someone else to know about it. Usually used in a derogatory manner (a webcomic named Hipster Hitler claims to have made it's eponymous main character part of the group because it was the only way people could hate him more).
I think "hipster" is just a term used to deride people whom others are jealous of. Non-"hipsters" look at hipsters as stuck-up losers, but what they really hate is that those people have different interests, aren't ashamed of it, and haven't been completely subjugated by cultural pressure (cf. the derision most metal fans suffer for their taste).
We have a natural human tendency to disregard/denigrate/hate those not like us, and leads to the "hipster hate" that seemingly always exists. It is a shameful state of human condition, and one we should fight, not accede to and accept.
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The best description of Hipsters I can think of is that they are just people who always want to be on the edge of trendiness. They want to go to that good undiscovered bar or restaurant. They want to live in the latest up and coming spot before it gets flooded with people. They want to find good music before it becomes popular. They put a lot of effort into their clothing but want to appear like they aren't.
In essence, they're just the latest counterculture phenomena of young people who want to be different but don't realize that they're all trying to be different the same way.
I think most people are annoyed with them because of the things that come out of some of their mouths. Not all hispters are bad, or even most of them, but a few make a bad name for the rest. They say things like:
"I was into X before it was cool"
"Oh me? I like X, you probably haven't heard of it"
And the real problem most people have with hipsters isn't that they want all of those things. That isn't a big deal. The problem most people have with hipsters is that they want you to know they're on the cutting edge.
That said, I don't have a problem with hipsters any more than any of the dozen countercultures that sprung up in the last 20 years. I have a problem with people who want to feel superior because they belong to the counterculture. As far as hipsters go, they're really not that bad compared to some of the more self-involved countercultures, like Goth or Emo.
The best description of Hipsters I can think of is that they are just people who always want to be on the edge of trendiness. They want to go to that good undiscovered bar or restaurant. They want to live in the latest up and coming spot before it gets flooded with people. They want to find good music before it becomes popular. They put a lot of effort into their clothing but want to appear like they aren't.
And there should be nothing wrong with this.
"Oh me? I like X, you probably haven't heard of it"
I can - and often do - say this about bands I like, many of which have been around forever. Again, nothing wrong with this on its own.
The problem most people have with hipsters is that they want you to know they're on the cutting edge.
The real problem is that they wear it on their sleeve, and most non-"hipsters," in their dislike of the different, take some sick pleasure in tearing them apart for it.
Again, jealousy.
I have a problem with people who want to feel superior because they belong to the counterculture. As far as hipsters go, they're really not that bad compared to some of the more self-involved countercultures, like Goth or Emo.
Given that pop culture, at the moment, is a cesspool... Yeah I do feel quite superior for eschewing it. And I am quite proud that I have survived the spears of those who can only hate that which is different.
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Before I was born, I guess there were beatniks and so on, who can be considered among the many spiritual predecessors of hipsters.
It used to mean counter-culture among generally upwardly-mobile and white young, urban middle-class teens/tweens when I was growing up.
Now it means anyone who is a conformist who fetishises coolness but thinks they are edgy, avant-garde, alternative, indie, non-mainstream; they are living and breathing manifestations of snootiness, silliness and irony (unto themselves).
Regarding your question "what is a hipster?" I am.
Sincerely yours,
Senori
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I think "hipster" is just a term used to deride people whom others are jealous of.
I know many hipsters. I have generally found the meaning to be more specific than that.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
I know many hipsters. I have generally found the meaning to be more specific than that.
What you know are people. I've never met anyone who self-identifies as a hipster; on the other hand, I never hear "hipster" used in any sense that is not meant to attempt to belittle others for silly, insignificant and inconsequential reasons.
Regarding your question "what is a hipster?" I am.
Sincerely yours,
Senori
I know many hipsters. I have generally found the meaning to be more specific than that.
I accept you for who you are Senori.
I, however, am not a hipster. I discover good music years late, I eat at chain restaurants, I buy my clothes new and usually at the direction of my wife because I have no taste, frequently dress like 'the man' for work, my glasses are purely functional and I like it.
Source: My brother is a hipster. He says hes not of course, like any hipster would.
He's a witch! That's just what a witch would say!
Haha, more seriously, he really has a Handlebar Moustache? The only person I've seen wearing one was a Fire Chief, and it made him look like he was from the 1800s. I'm not going to lie. That's pretty awesome.
Source: My brother is a hipster. He says hes not of course, like any hipster would.
Most deny it, but then there are there those hipsters (or is that 'hipsters') that never make a thing out of it as well as those that make a thing out of it too.
non-"hipsters," in their dislike of the different, take some sick pleasure in tearing them apart for it.
I don't dislike the different. I love experience new or different things.
I have no problem with hipsters. I have problems with self-centered snobs who happen to be hipsters, but with snobs in general. What you seem to be missing from my examples is that the individuals in question are in fact tearing other people down themselves.
The real problem is that they wear it on their sleeve, and most non-"hipsters," in their dislike of the different, take some sick pleasure in tearing them apart for it.
Again, jealousy.
Annoyance, not jealousy. I'm not jealous of people who hold loud cell phone conversations on public transit or blast their music so loud while driving my car shakes in the lane next to them from the vibrations. That's annoyance.
If a hispter clues me into to something cool, I like it. If a hipster acts like I'm not cool enough or he's superior to me for discovering it first, I'm annoyed, not jealous.
Given that pop culture, at the moment, is a cesspool... Yeah I do feel quite superior for eschewing it. And I am quite proud that I have survived the spears of those who can only hate that which is different.
Do you not see the irony in statements like this? You've made them repeatedly in this thread.
"Other people are so lame for doing X."
"Gosh, why do people judge me? They must just be haters."
There is a profound lack of self-awareness in statements like this. You can't go around judging other people's choices and then act indignant when they judge yours. You are not a victim here. That's my problem with countercultures in general, not what they do, but how they seem to think that their different is okay and shouldn't be judged while everyone else's different is lame or makes them 'sheeple'. This kind of thing perpetuates a cycle of judgment from which no one wins.
To be clear, I guess I was a counter-culture guy myself, trying really hard to put out the image of not caring and putting down those who did, even though I really did care, too. I knocked it off when I realized how hypocritical acting like that is. I was a really arrogant ass in High School, until I was shocked into some self-awareness around the time I graduated.
I don't dislike the different. I love experience new or different things.
I have no problem with hipsters. I have problems with self-centered snobs who happen to be hipsters, but with snobs in general. What you seem to be missing from my examples is that the individuals in question are in fact tearing other people down themselves.
So, instead of being smart and ignoring them, you feed into it further. You actually justify their snobbishness to some extent.
Annoyance, not jealousy. I'm not jealous of people who hold loud cell phone conversations on public transit or blast their music so loud while driving my car shakes in the lane next to them from the vibrations. That's annoyance.
How you equated these two characteristics with a "hipster" is, frankly, beyond me. Rude cell phone usage is ubiquitous, and bass so loud it shakes you from a hundred feet away is notably anti-hipster.
If a hispter clues me into to something cool, I like it. If a hipster acts like I'm not cool enough or he's superior to me for discovering it first, I'm annoyed, not jealous.
Can't you just enjoy something because you enjoy it, and not because of how others react to it?
You can't go around judging other people's choices and then act indignant when they judge yours. You are not a victim here.
Did I say I was? I am not a "hipster," FYI... Just someone who disapproves of modern culture and has spent a life actively seeking out the different and novel to find stuff I appreciate. I have spent a lifetime being judged for my tastes for no reason other than it was different. But that treatment hasn't informed my opinion on culture and counterculture, because I'm not a judgmental prick.
That's my problem with countercultures in general, not what they do, but how they seem to think that their different is okay and shouldn't be judged while everyone else's different is lame or makes them 'sheeple'. This kind of thing perpetuates a cycle of judgment from which no one wins.
And you don't see how your derision perpetuates this further?
The smart thing to do is ignore the silliness and judge individuals and things strictly on their own merits. But we (as humans) are so absolutely hung up on labeling and separation, for only self-aggrandizing reasons, that we can't help but do these things.
Personally, I fight these negative tendencies as best as possible, despite what you might think.
To be clear, I guess I was a counter-culture guy myself, trying really hard to put out the image of not caring and putting down those who did, even though I really did care, too. I knocked it off when I realized how hypocritical acting like that is. I was a really arrogant ass in High School, until I was shocked into some self-awareness around the time I graduated.
Sounds like it wasn't for you. Why put others down for it?
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Peace... as I doubt I have much more to say on this topic that I haven't said already.
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So, instead of being smart and ignoring them, you feed into it further. You actually justify their snobbishness to some extent.
I think you're getting me wrong here, I've tried to be pretty clear that I'm talking about snobby hipsters, not hipsters in general. If you don't like being labelled, that's an unfortunate by-product of how society works. You will never get a label-free society, because humans are conditioned to think in terms of a tribal mentality. It's unfortunate, but once you move past that and start to think about how labels and trends change, you can come up with solutions instead of resentment.
My bottom line is that there is nothing wrong with liking the norm, either. Different isn't inherently better, just like uniformity isn't bad. I'm just trying to get across to you my own experiences. You seem like a good guy, especially since you responded to my criticism with maturity, so take it from a guy that knows that the need to feel superior is a character flaw and you'll be a much stronger person if you can fight it and share your strengths with other people. Once I stopped feeling insecure and trying to boost my self esteem by feeling superior to others, I became a much stronger and more successful person. If you don't think this applies to you, that's fine, I just feel a lot of my high school/college self in your statements.
"I was into X before it was cool"
"Oh me? I like X, you probably haven't heard of it"
Serious question: Has anyone actually heard these words come out of someone's mouth? I spend a bunch of time around hipsters (Magic tournaments in Chicago anymore are about 1/3 hipsters) and haven't heard this sentiment. Maybe midwest hipsters are just more mellow than coastal ones.
For the most part, I've found that if you actually engage with people who are really into fashion or music or whatever they tend to be very earnestly excited about it. I was at this hipster coffee shop, heard some music I'd never heard before on the speakers so I asked the guy working there about it. He was very happy to tell me who it was and talk about it for a bit. If you ask a bearded bartender for beer recommendations you'll probably get some discourse about his favorite ones.
If you're a jerk about your bad taste - if you demand a Miller Lite at a fancy beer bar that doesn't stock that stuff, or if you ask the guy at the hipster coffee shop to put on Mumford and Sons - then you might get a bad attitude. But if you put some effort into being interested in what other people are into instead of dismissing them because they wear skinny jeans and have thick-rimmed glasses, most hipsters are very nice.
I think you're getting me wrong here, I've tried to be pretty clear that I'm talking about snobby hipsters, not hipsters in general. If you don't like being labelled, that's an unfortunate by-product of how society works. You will never get a label-free society, because humans are conditioned to think in terms of a tribal mentality. It's unfortunate, but once you move past that and start to think about how labels and trends change, you can come up with solutions instead of resentment.
My bottom line is that there is nothing wrong with liking the norm, either. Different isn't inherently better, just like uniformity isn't bad. I'm just trying to get across to you my own experiences. You seem like a good guy, especially since you responded to my criticism with maturity, so take it from a guy that knows that the need to feel superior is a character flaw and you'll be a much stronger person if you can fight it and share your strengths with other people. Once I stopped feeling insecure and trying to boost my self esteem by feeling superior to others, I became a much stronger and more successful person. If you don't think this applies to you, that's fine, I just feel a lot of my high school/college self in your statements.
I think you are misinterpreting me, actually. I don't claim to be superior to anyone.
I hate pop culture. I don't hate people for liking it. There's a distinct difference. (Edit: And I don't think I'm better than anyone else for liking what I like. I just have very unique and well-defined tastes, and make it a point to be knowledgeable about topics that interest me. My distaste for pop culture lends to feeling superior for eschewing it.) The same way, in fact, in which I am an atheist but hold no one at fault for believing in a god.
What you know are people. I've never met anyone who self-identifies as a hipster; on the other hand, I never hear "hipster" used in any sense that is not meant to attempt to belittle others for silly, insignificant and inconsequential reasons.
I've met plenty of people who self-identify as hipsters; I also know plenty of people who get called "hipsters" by their friends and laugh about it. It may be a term used to belittle in some circles; it is also a descriptive term in others. Neither of our experiences is universal.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
You can spot them by their skinny jeans, vintage t-shirts, handlebar moustache and knit beanie/ scarf.
The bike with the PBR stickers outside is theirs as well.
Source: My brother is a hipster. He says hes not of course, like any hipster would.
Right out of the Portland tourist guidebook, good one.
I believe the term "hipster" has been transformed in exactly the same way as the term "hippy" was. As soon as it became a mainsteam fashion sensiblity the term became obsolete. Dressing up and acting like one does not mean you are one. As other posters mentioned, it is a counterculture thing which has now become mainstream culture and as a result loses any real meaning. The whole burning man and "tribal" scene followed a similar arc (a sub-group of hipsters). And the cycle continues...
And there should be nothing wrong with this.
I can - and often do - say this about bands I like, many of which have been around forever. Again, nothing wrong with this on its own.
The real problem is that they wear it on their sleeve, and most non-"hipsters," in their dislike of the different, take some sick pleasure in tearing them apart for it.
Again, jealousy.
Given that pop culture, at the moment, is a cesspool... Yeah I do feel quite superior for eschewing it. And I am quite proud that I have survived the spears of those who can only hate that which is different.
This has to be the best post about hipsters I've ever read
I thought about this idea of language, etc., while on my drive home from work.
Jay, I have to amend my previous comment. I DO feel superior to some people. Why? Well, let's put it this way:
You say I shouldn't feel superior to others because of what I like and what I do. Well, the reality of my life (and my experiences; thus, my understanding as shown to me) is that those who dislike what I happen to like absolutely feel superior to me for it, and often, these people have zero problem providing me with friendly reminders that they believe this.
Whether it was various family members calling me a girl because I grew my hair out or not wanting to stand next to me in a wedding party for fear they would "catch" my "disease..." or my peers (then) physically and verbally abusing me and (now) assuming things about me that just aren't so because of a taste preference... Or the weird looks I get from people for the hair... Or, when I say I like heavy metal, people say, "How can you listen to that noise?"... Or, "Do we have to listen to THIS?" when they're a passenger in my car.
Yeah, they're not encouraging me to feel different from them, no. Should I feel inferior or superior to them? Personally, I feel much better being superior to them than inferior.
I generally say I hold humanity in a low regard; maybe this is biased towards Americans, but I find that people are more interested in dividing than uniting over silly things, and many have little to no trouble being incredibly harsh about it.
I'm not saying I should be venerated for my taste; I'm saying I shouldn't be denigrated for it - but that's what actually happens.
Perhaps, one day, people will stop being so divisive, and I will gladly get off any high horse I may be sitting on. But I have grown weary of being a "nice guy" about these things yet I still get **** on. My age has made me more of an "eye for an eye" kind of guy, for better or worse.
So I have some solidarity with the "hipsters," who are just people like you and me, just with a different aesthetic sense. They are still humans who need love and companionship, food and shelter, and thus are no different from anyone else where it actually matters.
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I think "hipster" is just a term used to deride people whom others are jealous of. Non-"hipsters" look at hipsters as stuck-up losers, but what they really hate is that those people have different interests, aren't ashamed of it, and haven't been completely subjugated by cultural pressure (cf. the derision most metal fans suffer for their taste).
We have a natural human tendency to disregard/denigrate/hate those not like us, and leads to the "hipster hate" that seemingly always exists. It is a shameful state of human condition, and one we should fight, not accede to and accept.
this is the most wrong post i have ever read on any forum. i think you are defending a concept you feel represents you without really understanding it at all. your comments about liking metal notwithstanding. after all, hipsters hate heavy metal, cause metalheads like it.
this is the most wrong post i have ever read on any forum. i think you are defending a concept you feel represents you without really understanding it at all. your comments about liking metal notwithstanding. after all, hipsters hate heavy metal, cause metalheads like it.
No, but I'm defending a group from derision it does not deserve.
Forgive me for standing up for others, but that's the kind of guy I am.
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I think you're getting me wrong here, I've tried to be pretty clear that I'm talking about snobby hipsters, not hipsters in general. If you don't like being labelled, that's an unfortunate by-product of how society works. You will never get a label-free society, because humans are conditioned to think in terms of a tribal mentality. It's unfortunate, but once you move past that and start to think about how labels and trends change, you can come up with solutions instead of resentment.
My bottom line is that there is nothing wrong with liking the norm, either. Different isn't inherently better, just like uniformity isn't bad. I'm just trying to get across to you my own experiences. You seem like a good guy, especially since you responded to my criticism with maturity, so take it from a guy that knows that the need to feel superior is a character flaw and you'll be a much stronger person if you can fight it and share your strengths with other people. Once I stopped feeling insecure and trying to boost my self esteem by feeling superior to others, I became a much stronger and more successful person. If you don't think this applies to you, that's fine, I just feel a lot of my high school/college self in your statements.
I have that same issue myself. I feel the need to be superior to other people even though I never used to be that way myself. I remember being curious and wishing to learn about the world and the people in it, I was far more open and caring then. But things change in time I suppose and it's something I need to work on.
As for myself, I'm a terribly practical person. I go for function and comfort in clothes, not a need to be different (although my tastes tend to stay within white, black and gray). As for my tastes and interests I have always liked what I liked and never really payed attention to trends and fads, just what I enjoy. I guess that could make me Sakashima in a way, never pegged into one spot but doing what I like (which takes me to different styles and tastes). I guess I'm just me, simple as that.
I thought about this idea of language, etc., while on my drive home from work.
Jay, I have to amend my previous comment. I DO feel superior to some people. Why? Well, let's put it this way:
You say I shouldn't feel superior to others because of what I like and what I do. Well, the reality of my life (and my experiences; thus, my understanding as shown to me) is that those who dislike what I happen to like absolutely feel superior to me for it, and often, these people have zero problem providing me with friendly reminders that they believe this.
Whether it was various family members calling me a girl because I grew my hair out or not wanting to stand next to me in a wedding party for fear they would "catch" my "disease..." or my peers (then) physically and verbally abusing me and (now) assuming things about me that just aren't so because of a taste preference... Or the weird looks I get from people for the hair... Or, when I say I like heavy metal, people say, "How can you listen to that noise?"... Or, "Do we have to listen to THIS?" when they're a passenger in my car.
Yeah, they're not encouraging me to feel different from them, no. Should I feel inferior or superior to them? Personally, I feel much better being superior to them than inferior.
I generally say I hold humanity in a low regard; maybe this is biased towards Americans, but I find that people are more interested in dividing than uniting over silly things, and many have little to no trouble being incredibly harsh about it.
I'm not saying I should be venerated for my taste; I'm saying I shouldn't be denigrated for it - but that's what actually happens.
Perhaps, one day, people will stop being so divisive, and I will gladly get off any high horse I may be sitting on. But I have grown weary of being a "nice guy" about these things yet I still get **** on. My age has made me more of an "eye for an eye" kind of guy, for better or worse.
So I have some solidarity with the "hipsters," who are just people like you and me, just with a different aesthetic sense. They are still humans who need love and companionship, food and shelter, and thus are no different from anyone else where it actually matters.
You like what you like and that's ok. It's not better or worse, just different. Different is not bad.
The way I see it, as long as someone does not deride or hurt others with what they do it's fine by me.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_(contemporary_subculture)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hipster
The definition I've known for the past few years is best explained by the line "I used to like [insert band, movie, etc], but then it got too mainstream" or, "I was into [insert band, movie, etc] before they became cool."
My helpdesk should you need me.
We have a natural human tendency to disregard/denigrate/hate those not like us, and leads to the "hipster hate" that seemingly always exists. It is a shameful state of human condition, and one we should fight, not accede to and accept.
The MirroCube - 420 card Mirrodin themed cube
And if I've offended you, I'm sorry, but maybe you need to be offended. But here's my apology and one more thing...
In essence, they're just the latest counterculture phenomena of young people who want to be different but don't realize that they're all trying to be different the same way.
I think most people are annoyed with them because of the things that come out of some of their mouths. Not all hispters are bad, or even most of them, but a few make a bad name for the rest. They say things like:
"I was into X before it was cool"
"Oh me? I like X, you probably haven't heard of it"
And the real problem most people have with hipsters isn't that they want all of those things. That isn't a big deal. The problem most people have with hipsters is that they want you to know they're on the cutting edge.
That said, I don't have a problem with hipsters any more than any of the dozen countercultures that sprung up in the last 20 years. I have a problem with people who want to feel superior because they belong to the counterculture. As far as hipsters go, they're really not that bad compared to some of the more self-involved countercultures, like Goth or Emo.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I can - and often do - say this about bands I like, many of which have been around forever. Again, nothing wrong with this on its own.
The real problem is that they wear it on their sleeve, and most non-"hipsters," in their dislike of the different, take some sick pleasure in tearing them apart for it.
Again, jealousy.
Given that pop culture, at the moment, is a cesspool... Yeah I do feel quite superior for eschewing it. And I am quite proud that I have survived the spears of those who can only hate that which is different.
The MirroCube - 420 card Mirrodin themed cube
And if I've offended you, I'm sorry, but maybe you need to be offended. But here's my apology and one more thing...
It used to mean counter-culture among generally upwardly-mobile and white young, urban middle-class teens/tweens when I was growing up.
Now it means anyone who is a conformist who fetishises coolness but thinks they are edgy, avant-garde, alternative, indie, non-mainstream; they are living and breathing manifestations of snootiness, silliness and irony (unto themselves).
Regarding your question "what is a hipster?" I am.
Sincerely yours,
Senori
I know many hipsters. I have generally found the meaning to be more specific than that.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
The bike with the PBR stickers outside is theirs as well.
Source: My brother is a hipster. He says hes not of course, like any hipster would.
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
What you know are people. I've never met anyone who self-identifies as a hipster; on the other hand, I never hear "hipster" used in any sense that is not meant to attempt to belittle others for silly, insignificant and inconsequential reasons.
Edit:
Based on your attitude, I don't blame him for not identifying himself as a target for scorn.
And, for the record, PBR is a decent American beer... Way better than Bud or Coors, which are closer to carbonated urine than beer.
The MirroCube - 420 card Mirrodin themed cube
And if I've offended you, I'm sorry, but maybe you need to be offended. But here's my apology and one more thing...
I accept you for who you are Senori.
I, however, am not a hipster. I discover good music years late, I eat at chain restaurants, I buy my clothes new and usually at the direction of my wife because I have no taste, frequently dress like 'the man' for work, my glasses are purely functional and I like it.
He's a witch! That's just what a witch would say!
Haha, more seriously, he really has a Handlebar Moustache? The only person I've seen wearing one was a Fire Chief, and it made him look like he was from the 1800s. I'm not going to lie. That's pretty awesome.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Sorry, I laughed my arse off.
But that's more of an answer to 'what or who is an exemplar of a hipster?'.
I don't dislike the different. I love experience new or different things.
I have no problem with hipsters. I have problems with self-centered snobs who happen to be hipsters, but with snobs in general. What you seem to be missing from my examples is that the individuals in question are in fact tearing other people down themselves.
Annoyance, not jealousy. I'm not jealous of people who hold loud cell phone conversations on public transit or blast their music so loud while driving my car shakes in the lane next to them from the vibrations. That's annoyance.
If a hispter clues me into to something cool, I like it. If a hipster acts like I'm not cool enough or he's superior to me for discovering it first, I'm annoyed, not jealous.
Do you not see the irony in statements like this? You've made them repeatedly in this thread.
"Other people are so lame for doing X."
"Gosh, why do people judge me? They must just be haters."
There is a profound lack of self-awareness in statements like this. You can't go around judging other people's choices and then act indignant when they judge yours. You are not a victim here. That's my problem with countercultures in general, not what they do, but how they seem to think that their different is okay and shouldn't be judged while everyone else's different is lame or makes them 'sheeple'. This kind of thing perpetuates a cycle of judgment from which no one wins.
To be clear, I guess I was a counter-culture guy myself, trying really hard to put out the image of not caring and putting down those who did, even though I really did care, too. I knocked it off when I realized how hypocritical acting like that is. I was a really arrogant ass in High School, until I was shocked into some self-awareness around the time I graduated.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
How you equated these two characteristics with a "hipster" is, frankly, beyond me. Rude cell phone usage is ubiquitous, and bass so loud it shakes you from a hundred feet away is notably anti-hipster.
Can't you just enjoy something because you enjoy it, and not because of how others react to it?
Did I say I was? I am not a "hipster," FYI... Just someone who disapproves of modern culture and has spent a life actively seeking out the different and novel to find stuff I appreciate. I have spent a lifetime being judged for my tastes for no reason other than it was different. But that treatment hasn't informed my opinion on culture and counterculture, because I'm not a judgmental prick.
And you don't see how your derision perpetuates this further?
The smart thing to do is ignore the silliness and judge individuals and things strictly on their own merits. But we (as humans) are so absolutely hung up on labeling and separation, for only self-aggrandizing reasons, that we can't help but do these things.
Personally, I fight these negative tendencies as best as possible, despite what you might think.
Sounds like it wasn't for you. Why put others down for it?
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Peace... as I doubt I have much more to say on this topic that I haven't said already.
The MirroCube - 420 card Mirrodin themed cube
And if I've offended you, I'm sorry, but maybe you need to be offended. But here's my apology and one more thing...
I think you're getting me wrong here, I've tried to be pretty clear that I'm talking about snobby hipsters, not hipsters in general. If you don't like being labelled, that's an unfortunate by-product of how society works. You will never get a label-free society, because humans are conditioned to think in terms of a tribal mentality. It's unfortunate, but once you move past that and start to think about how labels and trends change, you can come up with solutions instead of resentment.
My bottom line is that there is nothing wrong with liking the norm, either. Different isn't inherently better, just like uniformity isn't bad. I'm just trying to get across to you my own experiences. You seem like a good guy, especially since you responded to my criticism with maturity, so take it from a guy that knows that the need to feel superior is a character flaw and you'll be a much stronger person if you can fight it and share your strengths with other people. Once I stopped feeling insecure and trying to boost my self esteem by feeling superior to others, I became a much stronger and more successful person. If you don't think this applies to you, that's fine, I just feel a lot of my high school/college self in your statements.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Serious question: Has anyone actually heard these words come out of someone's mouth? I spend a bunch of time around hipsters (Magic tournaments in Chicago anymore are about 1/3 hipsters) and haven't heard this sentiment. Maybe midwest hipsters are just more mellow than coastal ones.
For the most part, I've found that if you actually engage with people who are really into fashion or music or whatever they tend to be very earnestly excited about it. I was at this hipster coffee shop, heard some music I'd never heard before on the speakers so I asked the guy working there about it. He was very happy to tell me who it was and talk about it for a bit. If you ask a bearded bartender for beer recommendations you'll probably get some discourse about his favorite ones.
If you're a jerk about your bad taste - if you demand a Miller Lite at a fancy beer bar that doesn't stock that stuff, or if you ask the guy at the hipster coffee shop to put on Mumford and Sons - then you might get a bad attitude. But if you put some effort into being interested in what other people are into instead of dismissing them because they wear skinny jeans and have thick-rimmed glasses, most hipsters are very nice.
I think you are misinterpreting me, actually. I don't claim to be superior to anyone.
I hate pop culture. I don't hate people for liking it. There's a distinct difference. (Edit: And I don't think I'm better than anyone else for liking what I like. I just have very unique and well-defined tastes, and make it a point to be knowledgeable about topics that interest me. My distaste for pop culture lends to feeling superior for eschewing it.) The same way, in fact, in which I am an atheist but hold no one at fault for believing in a god.
The MirroCube - 420 card Mirrodin themed cube
And if I've offended you, I'm sorry, but maybe you need to be offended. But here's my apology and one more thing...
I've met plenty of people who self-identify as hipsters; I also know plenty of people who get called "hipsters" by their friends and laugh about it. It may be a term used to belittle in some circles; it is also a descriptive term in others. Neither of our experiences is universal.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Right out of the Portland tourist guidebook, good one.
I believe the term "hipster" has been transformed in exactly the same way as the term "hippy" was. As soon as it became a mainsteam fashion sensiblity the term became obsolete. Dressing up and acting like one does not mean you are one. As other posters mentioned, it is a counterculture thing which has now become mainstream culture and as a result loses any real meaning. The whole burning man and "tribal" scene followed a similar arc (a sub-group of hipsters). And the cycle continues...
This has to be the best post about hipsters I've ever read
Jealousy!
10/10
Would read again
Jay, I have to amend my previous comment. I DO feel superior to some people. Why? Well, let's put it this way:
You say I shouldn't feel superior to others because of what I like and what I do. Well, the reality of my life (and my experiences; thus, my understanding as shown to me) is that those who dislike what I happen to like absolutely feel superior to me for it, and often, these people have zero problem providing me with friendly reminders that they believe this.
Whether it was various family members calling me a girl because I grew my hair out or not wanting to stand next to me in a wedding party for fear they would "catch" my "disease..." or my peers (then) physically and verbally abusing me and (now) assuming things about me that just aren't so because of a taste preference... Or the weird looks I get from people for the hair... Or, when I say I like heavy metal, people say, "How can you listen to that noise?"... Or, "Do we have to listen to THIS?" when they're a passenger in my car.
Yeah, they're not encouraging me to feel different from them, no. Should I feel inferior or superior to them? Personally, I feel much better being superior to them than inferior.
I generally say I hold humanity in a low regard; maybe this is biased towards Americans, but I find that people are more interested in dividing than uniting over silly things, and many have little to no trouble being incredibly harsh about it.
I'm not saying I should be venerated for my taste; I'm saying I shouldn't be denigrated for it - but that's what actually happens.
Perhaps, one day, people will stop being so divisive, and I will gladly get off any high horse I may be sitting on. But I have grown weary of being a "nice guy" about these things yet I still get **** on. My age has made me more of an "eye for an eye" kind of guy, for better or worse.
So I have some solidarity with the "hipsters," who are just people like you and me, just with a different aesthetic sense. They are still humans who need love and companionship, food and shelter, and thus are no different from anyone else where it actually matters.
The MirroCube - 420 card Mirrodin themed cube
And if I've offended you, I'm sorry, but maybe you need to be offended. But here's my apology and one more thing...
this is the most wrong post i have ever read on any forum. i think you are defending a concept you feel represents you without really understanding it at all. your comments about liking metal notwithstanding. after all, hipsters hate heavy metal, cause metalheads like it.
No, but I'm defending a group from derision it does not deserve.
Forgive me for standing up for others, but that's the kind of guy I am.
The MirroCube - 420 card Mirrodin themed cube
And if I've offended you, I'm sorry, but maybe you need to be offended. But here's my apology and one more thing...
I have that same issue myself. I feel the need to be superior to other people even though I never used to be that way myself. I remember being curious and wishing to learn about the world and the people in it, I was far more open and caring then. But things change in time I suppose and it's something I need to work on.
As for myself, I'm a terribly practical person. I go for function and comfort in clothes, not a need to be different (although my tastes tend to stay within white, black and gray). As for my tastes and interests I have always liked what I liked and never really payed attention to trends and fads, just what I enjoy. I guess that could make me Sakashima in a way, never pegged into one spot but doing what I like (which takes me to different styles and tastes). I guess I'm just me, simple as that.
You like what you like and that's ok. It's not better or worse, just different. Different is not bad.
The way I see it, as long as someone does not deride or hurt others with what they do it's fine by me.