Hey all, and welcome to the fun world of Defender Combo.
The idea is to set up a wall of defenders, play galvanic alchemist and axebane guardian for an arbitrarily large amount of X-colored mana, and then win.
THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO PLAY THIS~! With the 2 main colors being and :symg:, you can splash whichever third color you like! most people prefer X mana finishers like increasing confusion. devil's play (both can be flashbacked so great value). really though, you can go whereever you like with it. my original idea was to...
...hit the combo for infinite mana, play sphinx's revelation to draw X cards (15-40+ depending on boardstate and strategy) and gain that same amount in life, and then...
...Because we can play our entire hand with this combo, it almost needs to be viewed as a tool box. Except not a toolbox you tutor things easily to your hand with, but one that you just sorta feel around in until you find what youre looking for. You see, the ability to draw almost the entire deck means we need to have a few things handy in there to feel around for. Rootbound defenses, syncopate(newer options available now wit Dragon's Maze), things to protect the combo as its happening. But also have something that can straight up win the game.
Oh yeah, and Nivix Guildmage with axebane/alchemist combo...copying temporal mastery....?! Infinite turns! infinite any spell, really
i like sphinx's revelation, its stupendous with axebane alchemist, and even if your opponent wipes after you played everthing, you still filled your hand with exactly what you need, and gained between 30-45 life.
deathrite shaman and trackers instincts/forbidden alchemy are amazing together. fill your yard with targets for it, and sift for something. perfect.
haunted guardian is easy on the mana
niv-mizzet is great. see here. he is the perfect finisher, and an outlet for the combo to kill them.
its decent, and im still working on it, but im liking it...
there are many ways to go about this deck, with UG mill possibly being the more efficient. splashing red or black has been discussed at great length, and both have their merits. i havent had the time to turn this into a proper primer yet, my apologies to all. i will be working on that, as well as a photoshop banner for the deck. please, if anyone has anything they want me to put here, pm me, even if it is a whole pre-written primer. let's do this thing right! ill try to get the basic lists up (if they arent already for UG, RUG, BUG, 5c, and all things between.my advice to you if youre wanting to just throw this together, start with the UG list and go from there.
Alright so ive been playing the 5 color wall deck, and frankly its mopping up everything in its path. Has a late game in Angel of glory's rise instead of relying on root born or golgari charm to dodge mass removal. Also my absolute favorite new wall without a shadow of a doubt is Haneir Watchkeep. He's sooooooo boss at beating down i dont think i could ever go back to ludvics test subject. Versus RDW i had him flip on turn 4 then used cackling counterpart to copy his 5/5 side on their turn to swing with two 5/5's.
Dont tell me this cant be tier 1... i played a 500$ deck at states this year and honestly id take this deck over it in a heartbeat.
The big combo here is a surprise oop's i win via dredge.
Angel of Glory's rise+ a deck full of humans (axebane, galvanic, haneir) and a zealous conscripts to give your axebane haste as well as cackling counterparts to copy extras to up defender count. this can happen either via unburial rites or via hardcast (easy in the lategame) with caverns for humans and angels you can lock out counter based control.
The best part is that the dredge combo is: SECONDARY! it makes this deck have a way to pull a win out of dragging things to the lategame. or it sets up similar to normal defender combo rules. 1. play defenders 2 abuse mad mana. I started with trackers instincts and realized that forbidden alchemy was always better because it wasnt limited to creatures and was instant speed. (very important with haneir watchkeep) but also a couple of forbidden alchemies in the grave are the perfect mana sink once we assemble the combo long enough to chain em through the deck till we find a win condition or a sphinx's revelation to go get a win condition.
props to challenged fate for pushing sphinx's revalation early in this thread, when i went back and mulled it over i I realised it was perfect as a card draw as doing it for 3-4 usually will find you what you need and buy you time. having zealous md lets me draw my whole deck, play kessig and swing for a million. if he's dead, unburial rites or angel od glory's rise gets him back.
other card choices:
Haunted guardian over hoverbarrier/fog bank/angelic wall
Haunted is really good versus rdw and zombies, two matchups that are a nightmare for us. also being colorless in a 5c build guarantee's he drops no matter if im mana screwed. can also pair really well with kessig wolf run, so well im considering a second copy.
Haneir watchkeep over ludvics test subject/trestle troll/lobber crew
13/13 trample is narsty but a 5/5 for three that usually flips on my opponents turn leaves me with a 5/5 to block with on thier turn and then on my turn yes i do have to attack, but i can use galvanic alchemist to untap or use cackling counterpart to copy the tapped 5/5 and block with him. also being human so he come's back with AOGR is the tits. also 1/5 is nothing to scoff at, yes both him and haunted enable tragic slip... im really not so much worried about slip as i am burn spells plus small to medium creatures. walls with teeth atleast let you make them think twice about attacking, hanier can even make people think twice about when and how they play spells... so much so that you can set up the combo in his wake. best wall besides axebane imho and a solid win condition likely to survive a wave of slaughter games aimed at us.
other card choices
deathrite shaman:mana fixing/utitlity/alternate win condition
cyclonic rift: detention sphere's, pithing needle's or o-rings got you down? bounce em and go off. 1 of is there for when you draw through your library with sphinx's revalation hits.
sever the bloodline: Slow but gets rid of things for good and possibly x/ 1's twice or can be flashed back via dredge/dig later game. in there most specifically for angel of serenity or entreat with angel's or really anything scarier than our wall's.
i havent had the time to turn this into a proper primer yet, my apologies to all. i will be working on that, as well as a photoshop banner for the deck. please, if anyone has anything they want me to put here, pm me, even if it is a whole pre-written primer. let's do this thing right! for now i will be leaning on DpDuder's well thought out writings on pages 17-18. thanks and props to duder!
Cyclonic rift
The perfect catchall, personally i find that i can prevent any maindeck answers game one from holding me off with a single cyclonic rift. sideboard its even more useful versus pithing needles (naming axebane) witchbane orb, or most often combination of detention sphere/oblivion ring. bounce, untap win is usually the ticket versus control. oddly enough it also can cover the flyer gap in the 5c build. the most threatening flyers by far are masses of tokens or a single beefy guys like griselbrand, thundermaw hellkite, sublime archangel. all of which cyclonic rift can deal with in either mode.
Sever the bloodline
Expensive and slow, but guaranteed removal.Exile is especially important in any matchup involving angel of serenity or geralfs messanger. also the ability to hit tokens or doubled up creatures is huge sometimes generating mad card advantage. The flashback is not unfeasible with the amount of mana our deck generates. clears the way to combo freely or push an attacker+kessig wolf run for lethal.
Kessig wolf run
MY favorite wincondition, as it is uncounterable and incredibly useful at making our rather small walls still have teeth in the mid-late game. axebanes mana production can also send any of our attackers in for huge damage. its a strong card always, especially when we not only have the ability to draw our entire deck in 1 turn but also a way to swing with haste. for this reason i md a single zealous conscripts.
This guys is ballin in this deck. he can clear the way for haneir watckeep beatdown, especially when paired with cackling counterpart. also targeting one of our own permanents effectively gives us haste on our axebane should we need to go off immediately before sorcery speed removal takes him away. being a human makes him even more awesome because he gets reanimated by Angel of Glory's Rise at the same time as axebane guardian, galvanic alchemist, haneir watchkeep, and either of the guildmages. when these guys all hit play at the same time the combo can go off instantly. unburial rites enables this combo mid/late game , as does assembling any of these pieces throughout the game. When not wining us the game, he also can be great at keeping planeswalkers in check, as well as grisselbrand.
Need 1 more defender? got it! need an axe bane guardian? get it back, twice! need a galvanic alchemist? get it back. want to win now? just reanimate Angel of glorys rise and zealous conscripts, or just conscripts to speed up that axebane you just played. All in all it gives the deck not only a useful mana dump but also an edge versus spot removal and sweepers that use to be the achilles heel of this deck.
and more from Duder..
so i just got done a few games versus american control and added 1 mindshrieker md. i found myself getting good milage g1, so g2 i boarded in a second one. it was awesome! i think its a good call versus anyone bring in rest in piece versus us. actually found myself using my unburial rites game 2 on mindshrieker for my wincondition, i love him and will continue to test him.
i think we need to get a proper primer for this deck. find me a sanctioned event to run this in the northeast and i'll get it on the radar because its not only a a fun deck, but also one of the most intuitive decks ive played in a long time. the last time i had this much fun playing combo was the last time ravnica came around and i got the chance to pioneer Warpworld combo to a 5-2-1 showing at states.
as far as matchups go i think our worst matchups are
zombies
uw aggro
gw aggro
*silverblade and sublime archangel are our worst nightmares, perhaps Feeling of dread is in order for these guys in the SB.
luckily the heavy control meta has pushed aggro down. i originally piloted GWr midrange expecting a sea of zombies, but see nothing but bant and UWr seem to be everywhere.
our fair matchups
RDW
jund
our good matchups
Patriot control
reanimator
Gx midrange
anything slow
anything aggro w/o silverblade/archangel
cards that dont bother us that are heavily played-
thragtusk-yeah he's a big attacker, but the lifegain is irrelevant versus us. an since we dont sweep or kill much neither does his token buddy. hanier and a guardian together can block a thrag and he'll have to pick only 1 to kill, then hanier can block the token, or haunted can be cackling counteparted for a first strike barrier.
tamyio the moon sage-super powerful planeswalker that defines Uxx control. her tap ability is less restrictive versus our plush mana base and haneirs can swing into her. galvanic alchemist paired with haneir/axebane can also get around tamiyio, as can cackling counterpart. galvanic alchemist is more than just a combo piece, its also a really cool tool for beating control. also he can thwart, feeling of dread if you have enough mana. and if anyone hasnt put galvanic with deathrite shaman yes, your in for a treat, he's either a machine gun, or a good 10-20 life.
supreme verdict- sweepers hurt, but this deck just keeps chugging through sweepers. using a haneir to aggro early means you can force sweepers while waiting for AOGr + Cavern and win on the spot. or aogr+unburial rites in the yard. eot forbiden alchemy is your best play.
entreat with angels- we've got both sever and cyclonic rift and plenty of ways to find em, second game there come in with a compliment of discard.
cards to worry about:
Thundermaw helkite: he's big, fast, and taps our flying walls, i outed the fogbanks and hoverbarriers because this guys is the flyer i have trouble with 9/10 times. sometimes falkenrath aristocrat is problematic, but nothing compared to the hellkite. my answer has been so far to has been to race with hanier+cackling counterpart and to strip it with appetite for brains or bounce it with cyclonic rift. im considering silklash spider as an answer, or perhaps crushing vines. i do really like using vines versus jund midrange as i kills nighthawk/olivia/thundermaw/rakados keyrune. i already tried trestle troll and found him to be too mana intensive, i dont think we have many other options in reach walls. i wish silklash had defender too, but he does work well as a mana dump to wipe flyers and has a huge but to compliment our walls. senslaya charm might also work versus hellkite too. perhaps feeling of dread too could work well.
Bonfire is amazing in this deck, great off the top like always but also, great in your hand. You can use half of infinity for each X in the XXRR cost to kill someone, works just as devils play, my version of the deck played four of each.
Very straight forward, good protection against aggro, it packs counterspells to stop people from destroying sands of delerium or combo pieces.
Plan; "hit infinite mana and take turns until you hit a Samds of Delerium -> Cast it, mill for a billion. Don't forget to thank your opponent for a good game"
I think throwing in a thrid color is dangerous. I'd keep it simple.
I don't know if we need more defenders, but Haunted Guardian seems kinda good, seeing as it doesn't care what colors we have in play. I also don't really understand the Deathrite Shaman. It's not a defender and it can't always make mana.
What about making this deck into a RUG? Then you could throw the lobbers in there for more untap fun. Also, it opens up Devil's Play for a traditional finisher. (You wouldn't even necessarily need the Alchemist combo... with enough defenders out, you might be able to just burn them straight up with two Axebanes out.)
Ludevic's might be a good defender to throw in as well with that amount of mana. And Manor Gargoyle is an indestructible defender.
(Also, Grave Bramble would be a fun sideboard card against zombies... )
I don't know if we need more defenders, but Haunted Guardian seems kinda good, seeing as it doesn't care what colors we have in play. I also don't really understand the Deathrite Shaman. It's not a defender and it can't always make mana.
Haunted guardian looks def worth a shot! I like deathrite shaman as an extra mana source utilizing discards from pack rat. But really i l wanna go away from that idea. Instead chromatic lantern/arbor elf combo, can be inserted for mana stability.
I like a fireball X death spell, but was thinking to try to win differently. Not discounting it tho if i cant find an alternate.
What about making this deck into a RUG? Then you could throw the lobbers in there for more untap fun. Also, it opens up Devil's Play for a traditional finisher. (You wouldn't even necessarily need the Alchemist combo... with enough defenders out, you might be able to just burn them straight up with two Axebanes out.)
Ludevic's might be a good defender to throw in as well with that amount of mana. And Manor Gargoyle is an indestructible defender.
(Also, Grave Bramble would be a fun sideboard card against zombies... )
I like that alot, and dropping black, leaves the deck at bant colors. adding red brings it to 4 colors, but i think it could handle it. I just like sphinxs revelation as our main combo X spell. We can certainly have a couple as back up
What about making this deck into a RUG? Then you could throw the lobbers in there for more untap fun. Also, it opens up Devil's Play for a traditional finisher. (You wouldn't even necessarily need the Alchemist combo... with enough defenders out, you might be able to just burn them straight up with two Axebanes out.)
Ludevic's might be a good defender to throw in as well with that amount of mana. And Manor Gargoyle is an indestructible defender.
(Also, Grave Bramble would be a fun sideboard card against zombies... )
You're correct, but it shouldn't matter. If this deck can draw its entire library and have infinite mana, it should be built to win on the spot.
It's the same reason the deck shouldn't use Door to Nothingness, unless it also has a way to untap it. Win immediately - Devil's Play seems to be the most direct method and the least prone to disruption. You can also happily jam 4 into the deck and feel free to use them immediately as control cards if necessary - with infinite mana, you can just flash it back for the win.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
You're correct, but it shouldn't matter. If this deck can draw its entire library and have infinite mana, it should be built to win on the spot.
It's the same reason the deck shouldn't use Door to Nothingness, unless it also has a way to untap it. Win immediately - Devil's Play seems to be the most direct method and the least prone to disruption. You can also happily jam 4 into the deck and feel free to use them immediately as control cards if necessary - with infinite mana, you can just flash it back for the win.
Very good point, i just like the extra combo, and itcan be used without being a combo piece nicely. I dont mind dropping door to nothingness, or maybe keeping it a single. Great point about flashback on devils play, that is a definate plus
I was thinking about making a defender combo deck as well, but going in a different direction
Doorkeeper 1U
defender
2U:symtap: Target player puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the number of creatures with defender you control
0/4
Hover Barrier 2U
flying defender
0/6
Ogre Jailbreaker 3B
defender, can attack as though it didn't have defender as long as you control a Gate.
4/4
Axebane Guardian and Gatecreeper Vine as well gives you 24 creatures that have defender. The gatecreeper vines get you gates to allow the jailbreaker to attack. just throw in 24 lands and 12 spells and have fun (perhaps the spell that shuffles your graveyard into your library and mills for that many cards?)
I was thinking about making a defender combo deck as well, but going in a different direction
Doorkeeper 1U
defender
2U:symtap: Target player puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the number of creatures with defender you control
0/4
Hover Barrier 2U
flying defender
0/6
Ogre Jailbreaker 3B
defender, can attack as though it didn't have defender as long as you control a Gate.
4/4
Axebane Guardian and Gatecreeper Vine as well gives you 24 creatures that have defender. The gatecreeper vines get you gates to allow the jailbreaker to attack. just throw in 24 lands and 12 spells and have fun (perhaps the spell that shuffles your graveyard into your library and mills for that many cards?)
Interesting, doorkeeper looks like it might like rest in peace. So youre just trying to mill them thru troll via axebane? Its def more straightup defender than defender combo
Tezna: nice thought, tho being able to play your library in one turn is kinda the same right?
Doorkeeper make my gears churn some more tho, thanks for the mention
Interesting, doorkeeper looks like it might like rest in peace. So youre just trying to mill them thru troll via axebane? Its def more straightup defender than defender combo
Tezna: nice thought, tho being able to play your library in one turn is kinda the same right?
Doorkeeper make my gears churn some more tho, thanks for the mention
That was the initial plan, but after thinking it over... i have a new idea
could probably make this a U/G defender mill with just a little bit of tweaking.
Bonfire is amazing in this deck, great off the top like always but also, great in your hand. You can use half of infinity for each X in the XXRR cost to kill someone, works just as devils play, my version of the deck played four of each.
After playtesting a few variations of this deck, I've learned it has one major flaw:
If the opponent is able to stop your infinite mana via either board wipe or removal of Axebane, the whole deck can do nothing but sit there while you attempt to build your combo again.
While the combo sounds nice, the pieces it's comprised of can't do anything on their own.
After playtesting a few variations of this deck, I've learned it has one major flaw:
If the opponent is able to stop your infinite mana via either board wipe or removal of Axebane, the whole deck can do nothing but sit there while you attempt to build your combo again.
While the combo sounds nice, the pieces it's comprised of can't do anything on their own.
After playtesting a few variations of this deck, I've learned it has one major flaw:
If the opponent is able to stop your infinite mana via either board wipe or removal of Axebane, the whole deck can do nothing but sit there while you attempt to build your combo again.
While the combo sounds nice, the pieces it's comprised of can't do anything on their own.
Which is why im looking for a back up plan, something that can work with the combo, or provide its own threat. Like i said before, work in progress, but some potential imo. This is also why i had the rats in, and deathrite shaman, to be an alternate something
I wonder if there is some big creature (maybe the new Niv-Mizzet?) that you can throw down thanks to the mana acceleration that you in theory should have. It's going to be a solid win condition creature, and it also has synergy with what your deck can do (even without the combo) which is generate mana.
you could put down extra cards to protect the combo:
E.g.: if the opponent has a lot of instant removal, you could put a couple of Mizzium skin ..you just need to use it for a turn..
otherwise you could use Racecourse fury as a 1 drop. that way you could drop the axebane guardian only when you have at least 3 defender on the ground and at least 6 land total, give him rapidity, tap for additional mana and play the galvanic alchemist, tap 3 to untap the axebane that will give you 4 mana, and so on..
This way, you'll go more slowly, sure, but you'll win on the 6th turn instead of the 4th, without risking anything.
This was a thought id had, and liked. Amada wurm/worldspine might be good, or even just sigarda. I really like having some rats in there, but its not a main color
I like the lobber crew suggestion. Perhaps pack it full of burn finishers? Thunderous wrath? Bonfire?
Given all the nonbasics this deck will run, I think Arbor Elf is a bad idea. Those will likely come out for Doorkeeper or Ludevic's Test Subject. Both are something of an alternate win-con. Ludevic in particular is a nice distraction and removal magnet.
Also, 2x Alchemist's Refuge might be worth it. It provides the ability to drop an important creature at the end of an opponent's turn.
Test subject is fine but id say the doorkeeper is WAY too gimmicky, if youre going to add him just put in another wincon instead. you want T1 plays so either arbor elf, av pilgrim, or shaman is the way to go.
Hey all, and welcome to the fun world of Defender Combo.
The idea is to set up a wall of defenders, play galvanic alchemist and axebane guardian for an arbitrarily large amount of X-colored mana, and then win.
THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO PLAY THIS~! With the 2 main colors being and :symg:, you can splash whichever third color you like! most people prefer X mana finishers like increasing confusion. devil's play (both can be flashbacked so great value). really though, you can go whereever you like with it. my original idea was to...
...hit the combo for infinite mana, play sphinx's revelation to draw X cards (15-40+ depending on boardstate and strategy) and gain that same amount in life, and then...
...Because we can play our entire hand with this combo, it almost needs to be viewed as a tool box. Except not a toolbox you tutor things easily to your hand with, but one that you just sorta feel around in until you find what youre looking for. You see, the ability to draw almost the entire deck means we need to have a few things handy in there to feel around for. Rootbound defenses, syncopate(newer options available now wit Dragon's Maze), things to protect the combo as its happening. But also have something that can straight up win the game.
Oh yeah, and Nivix Guildmage with axebane/alchemist combo...copying temporal mastery....?! Infinite turns! infinite any spell, really
A Couple decklists that include Dragon's Maze
Hackort's list: multiple win cons, dragonshift, devil's play, etc
4 Axebane Guardian
3 Galvanic Alchemist
Defenders - 12
4 Nivix Cyclops
4 Murmuring Phantasm
2 Hover Barrier
2 Manor Gargoyle
4 Dragon Shift
2 Cackling Counterpart
2 Plasm Capture
3 Izzet Charm
3 Simic Charm
2 Devil's Play
2 Kessig Wolf Run
21 Other Lands
Vispilia's Junk shell
4 Trestle Troll
4 Immortal Servitude
2 Debt to the Deathless
4 Farseek
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Galvanic Alchemist
4 Hover Barrier
4 Corpse Blockade
__________________________________________________________________________
4 Axebane Guardian
4 Galvanic Alchemist
4 Gatecreeper Vine
3 Fog Bank
1 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
3 Haunted Guardian
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Nivix Guildmage
1 Pack Rat
3 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Stolen Goods
1 Devil's Play/Increasing Confusion
4 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Cackling Counterpart
Lands:
4 Steam Vents
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Island
4 Forest
4 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
1 Plains
this is my current incarnation.
i like sphinx's revelation, its stupendous with axebane alchemist, and even if your opponent wipes after you played everthing, you still filled your hand with exactly what you need, and gained between 30-45 life.
deathrite shaman and trackers instincts/forbidden alchemy are amazing together. fill your yard with targets for it, and sift for something. perfect.
haunted guardian is easy on the mana
niv-mizzet is great. see here. he is the perfect finisher, and an outlet for the combo to kill them.
its decent, and im still working on it, but im liking it...
there are many ways to go about this deck, with UG mill possibly being the more efficient. splashing red or black has been discussed at great length, and both have their merits. i havent had the time to turn this into a proper primer yet, my apologies to all. i will be working on that, as well as a photoshop banner for the deck. please, if anyone has anything they want me to put here, pm me, even if it is a whole pre-written primer. let's do this thing right! ill try to get the basic lists up (if they arent already for UG, RUG, BUG, 5c, and all things between.my advice to you if youre wanting to just throw this together, start with the UG list and go from there.
4 Galvanic Alchemist
4 Axebane Guardian
2 sphinx's Revelation
3 Temporal Mastery
3 Nivix Guildmage
4 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Fog Bank
2 Angelic Wall
Mana Fixing
4 Arbor Elf
2 Chromatic Lantern
3 Sheltering Word?
Ramp Targets
1 Door to Nothingness
Havent even thought about the mana base yet, and am still thinking about card options and slots. Please, would love some help with this
Other versions/concepts
i havent had the time to turn this into a proper primer yet, my apologies to all. i will be working on that, as well as a photoshop banner for the deck. please, if anyone has anything they want me to put here, pm me, even if it is a whole pre-written primer. let's do this thing right! for now i will be leaning on DpDuder's well thought out writings on pages 17-18. thanks and props to duder!
and more from Duder..
jackpower's "Cackling Axebane"
Standard: W/R Aggro
Stuff I'm Selling
Ludevic's might be a good defender to throw in as well with that amount of mana. And Manor Gargoyle is an indestructible defender.
(Also, Grave Bramble would be a fun sideboard card against zombies... )
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Haunted guardian looks def worth a shot! I like deathrite shaman as an extra mana source utilizing discards from pack rat. But really i l wanna go away from that idea. Instead chromatic lantern/arbor elf combo, can be inserted for mana stability.
I like a fireball X death spell, but was thinking to try to win differently. Not discounting it tho if i cant find an alternate.
I like that alot, and dropping black, leaves the deck at bant colors. adding red brings it to 4 colors, but i think it could handle it. I just like sphinxs revelation as our main combo X spell. We can certainly have a couple as back up
Oh
My
....
Please tell me im right...
Nivix Guildmage with axebane/alchemist combo...copying temporal mastery....?! Infinite turns?
You're correct, but it shouldn't matter. If this deck can draw its entire library and have infinite mana, it should be built to win on the spot.
It's the same reason the deck shouldn't use Door to Nothingness, unless it also has a way to untap it. Win immediately - Devil's Play seems to be the most direct method and the least prone to disruption. You can also happily jam 4 into the deck and feel free to use them immediately as control cards if necessary - with infinite mana, you can just flash it back for the win.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
Very good point, i just like the extra combo, and itcan be used without being a combo piece nicely. I dont mind dropping door to nothingness, or maybe keeping it a single. Great point about flashback on devils play, that is a definate plus
Doorkeeper 1U
defender
2U:symtap: Target player puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the number of creatures with defender you control
0/4
Hover Barrier 2U
flying defender
0/6
Ogre Jailbreaker 3B
defender, can attack as though it didn't have defender as long as you control a Gate.
4/4
Trestle Troll 1GB
defender, reach
1GB regenerate
1/4
Axebane Guardian and Gatecreeper Vine as well gives you 24 creatures that have defender. The gatecreeper vines get you gates to allow the jailbreaker to attack. just throw in 24 lands and 12 spells and have fun (perhaps the spell that shuffles your graveyard into your library and mills for that many cards?)
Interesting, doorkeeper looks like it might like rest in peace. So youre just trying to mill them thru troll via axebane? Its def more straightup defender than defender combo
Tezna: nice thought, tho being able to play your library in one turn is kinda the same right?
Doorkeeper make my gears churn some more tho, thanks for the mention
That was the initial plan, but after thinking it over... i have a new idea
could probably make this a U/G defender mill with just a little bit of tweaking.
4 Ludevic's Test Subject
4 Axebane Guardian
4 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Hover Barrier
4 Doorkeeper
4 Galvanic Alchemist
4 Increasing Confusion
4 Slime Molding
4 Cancel
would have loved to find room for Chronic Flooding or Psychic Spiral
bye bye fog bank, hello ludevic's test subject
EDIT DECKLISTS:
4 Haunted Guardian
4 Ludevic's Test Subject
4 Axebane Guardian
4 Galvanic Alchemist
4 Doorkeeper
4 Sands of Delirium
4 Arbor Elf
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Cavern of Souls
8 Forest
8 Island
4 Galvanic Alchemist
4 Volcanic Geyser
4 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Fog Bank
4 Haunted Guardian
4 Ludevic's Test Subject
4 Arbor Elf
4 Izzet Guildgate
4 Steam Vents
4 Hinterland Harbor
9 Forest
3 Island
RRRR mono red aggro
GWGW selesnya aggro
If the opponent is able to stop your infinite mana via either board wipe or removal of Axebane, the whole deck can do nothing but sit there while you attempt to build your combo again.
While the combo sounds nice, the pieces it's comprised of can't do anything on their own.
Well they are walls...
GR Ramp Happy Valakut GR
Which is why im looking for a back up plan, something that can work with the combo, or provide its own threat. Like i said before, work in progress, but some potential imo. This is also why i had the rats in, and deathrite shaman, to be an alternate something
This. Why add additional colors unnecessarily?
This was a thought id had, and liked. Amada wurm/worldspine might be good, or even just sigarda. I really like having some rats in there, but its not a main color
I like the lobber crew suggestion. Perhaps pack it full of burn finishers? Thunderous wrath? Bonfire?
Very true. Seems like we're locked in to bant, plus a lil splash for finish
Given all the nonbasics this deck will run, I think Arbor Elf is a bad idea. Those will likely come out for Doorkeeper or Ludevic's Test Subject. Both are something of an alternate win-con. Ludevic in particular is a nice distraction and removal magnet.
Also, 2x Alchemist's Refuge might be worth it. It provides the ability to drop an important creature at the end of an opponent's turn.
BR Sleeper Ascension - Casual
Test subject is fine but id say the doorkeeper is WAY too gimmicky, if youre going to add him just put in another wincon instead. you want T1 plays so either arbor elf, av pilgrim, or shaman is the way to go.