psst...extirpirate has split second. unless we have teferi in play, that strategy does not work. extirpate is the best defense against itself.
maybe we can persecute it out, idk, this card makes dralnu an even worse matchup.
What it means is that we have to think long and hard before passing priority.
The card has to be in the graveyard for it to be expatriated (or whatever the card's called). So, if you've wasted a Rite of Flame or something earlier, then you probably deserve to have it taken out of the game. What you CAN do, however, is follow our same strategy. Obviously, discard decks'll be a pain, but that's usually been a bad matchup anyways. It's going to come down to a transformational SB, just like Heartbeat had in lieu of cranial. But if you're not facing a discard deck, here's what you do. The same thing we always do:
Drowse them out, then go off. If you've got seething songs, then get up to 9 mana and get the dragonstorm on the stack before passing priority. Worst case, what would happen is that the storm copies go on the stack (let's say 4 of them) and they let one resolve. Then, once the 1st Bogarden hits play, they double sudden shock (or some other instant speed kill), and then expatriate, stopping the rest of the storms. But that requires that they have 7 mana and 3 specific cards in hand. and you can then still drop down two hunteds and you've still done 17 damage with 12 on the table (depending on what dragons end up coming out in PC).
Also, Willbender will become ridiculously useful in this matchup. Remember that you can still unmorph in response to a Split Second and change the target of the Expatriate. Same thing could work if they print a morph card that targets (and removes) a card in a graveyard. I think that morphing in the SB might be feasible.
I'm not really sure how good an idea it is to go 3 colors on what's already such a luck based deck... just seems like you'll be setting yourself up for all sorts of bad draws.
On the other hand, I don't think Extirpate really hurts Dragonstorm too much... it just means you'd better succeed the first time you try to go off. Really, if your opponent can make you discard vital spells, you're already going to lose, right? And you ought not to be using Rite of Flames and so on before you can go off...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05 Cool stuff here.
Extirpate? Why is this so frightening? ...target card in a graveyard...
This doesn't hurt us unless we are stupid enough to play a Hellkite before going off etc. Or if they get a Rite of Flame... but that's not so scary... against Dralnu, I just build up a lot of mana, so... I'll have plenty if my Rites don't make an extra mana...
@Solace: This deck is not based on luck. any noob can play it and try to go off turn 4 without doing anything else, but a lot goes into gathering mana sources, gigadrowses, and knowing when to go off. we can go into 3 colors because we already use storage lands, but i guess the willbender idea is more useful. @ ravus: you'd be suprised, mono black can have a draw like this
blackmail-brain pry-persecute (t4) extirpate...and that is nigh impossible to deal with. either way, they are extirpating something.
@Solace: This deck is not based on luck. any noob can play it and try to go off turn 4 without doing anything else, but a lot goes into gathering mana sources, gigadrowses, and knowing when to go off. we can go into 3 colors because we already use storage lands, but i guess the willbender idea is more useful.
All combo decks rely on luck more than aggro and control decks. All decks that run three colors require more luck than decks with 2. I'm not saying you can't do a combo deck over 3 colors, I'm just saying that you might want to try to keep it as redundant as possible.
And seriously... Willbender works in a technical sense, but is way too slow and vulnerable to rely on. Unless you discard vital cards off of your hand while building resources, I'd just ignore the existence of Extirpate, to be frank. It just doesn't hurt Dragonstorm too much.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05 Cool stuff here.
All combo decks rely on luck more than aggro and control decks. All decks that run three colors require more luck than decks with 2. I'm not saying you can't do a combo deck over 3 colors, I'm just saying that you might want to try to keep it as redundant as possible.
And seriously... Willbender works in a technical sense, but is way too slow and vulnerable to rely on. Unless you discard vital cards off of your hand while building resources, I'd just ignore the existence of Extirpate, to be frank. It just doesn't hurt Dragonstorm too much.
Agreed. However, all the fanciful new discard engines available to Dralnu's sb is slightly frightening... Wistful Thinking
Edit: Oh, they don't have that linked? Piss.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Imagine scantily-clad women in a leud embrace,
one stretched out and victim to a chokehold of the other,
both with big stupid grins spreading across their faces.]
Practically strictly worse than Stupor, which they already don't run. Unless PC has some instant-speed mass discard for 4 mana or less, it's not gonna be played in Dralnu (aside for possibly Persecute in some people's sideboards).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05 Cool stuff here.
As to Extripate, the problem is not already having a card in your graveyard before going off, it's when going off. Say you play a Rite of Flame to go off, they Extripate it as soon as you play it, meaning you lose the rest of them from your hand, or you play a Seething Song, and they Extripate it as soon as it hits the graveyard. That's the problem, so not only is it blue mana we have to tap down, it's also black mana.
I also play to remove 4 Islands in my deck for 4 Watery Graves so I can sideboard in 4 Extripate against just about anything. This helps the Dralnu match incredibly, as they only get to use 1 copy of anything you want to Extripate, say Rewind. ;D
It also reads that you can get anything except a BASIC land, that's really sick, so if somone discards a Hallowed Fountain from a Compulsive Research, you can get the rest of them, or maybe those nuisance Tron peices.
As to Extripate, the problem is not already having a card in your graveyard before going off, it's when going off. Say you play a Rite of Flame to go off, they Extripate it as soon as you play it, meaning you lose the rest of them from your hand, or you play a Seething Song, and they Extripate it as soon as it hits the graveyard.
Doesn't work; you get priority first when it's your turn, so even with the split second, you get to cast a spell after something hits the grave before your opponent can. It does make extra copies of Rite of Flame only generate RR, or stop a spell you've got three of in your hand, but that's it. Besides, it's not like the Dralnu player psychically knows what cards you have extra copies of in your hand, either.
Doesn't work; you get priority first when it's your turn, so even with the split second, you get to cast a spell after something hits the grave before your opponent can. It does make extra copies of Rite of Flame only generate RR, or stop a spell you've got three of in your hand, but that's it. Besides, it's not like the Dralnu player psychically knows what cards you have extra copies of in your hand, either.
... and like a 1/3 chance of drawing both in your opening hand. That's what I meant about setting yourself up for extra problems.
It works when the spell has to resolve to generate the mana to cast the next, which is what Dragonstorm does. And they don't have to know what you have in your hand, if they see you getting ready to go off they nail whichever looks like the more likely target.
I run 4 Gemstone Mine, 1 Dreadship Reef, and now 4 Watery Grave main deck, it's pretty good odds that you'll draw a black source and the Extripate in your first couple turns. You don't need it in your opening hand. All Dragonstorm does is dig through it's library and stall until it goes off anyways, you'll find at least 1 relevant card by fourth turn between 4 Gigadrowse and 4 Extripate.
It works when the spell has to resolve to generate the mana to cast the next, which is what Dragonstorm does. And they don't have to know what you have in your hand, if they see you getting ready to go off they nail whichever looks like the more likely target.
Me: I cast Rite of Flame.
Opponent: I cast... oh, dang, not in the graveyard yet. Pass priority.
Me: Rite resolves...
Opponent: Extirpate the Rite!
Me: Sorry, I have priority. I cast Seething Song.
Opponent: Oh, umm... I Extirpate the Rite now?
Me: Sure. Sadly, I just have a seething Song in my hand. But don't worry, you couldn't have gotten it anyway.
You can ask in the rules forum if you don't believe me, but I'm pretty sure I'm right on this... it only stops the grave-loving part of Rite of Flame, or cards you have at least 3 of in your hand.
Yeah, your right. I think that Extricate only worsens our bad matchups. Discard now has another way to laugh in out faces. Thats all that really matters. What do people think about SBing the rest of the playset of Hunted Dragons for matchups where opponents have Voidstone Gargoyle?
Also, can we try to splash white for Magus of the Tanermacle?
Yeah, your right. I think that Extricate only worsens our bad matchups. Discard now has another way to laugh in out faces. Thats all that really matters. What do people think about SBing the rest of the playset of Hunted Dragons for matchups where opponents have Voidstone Gargoyle?
Also, can we try to splash white for Magus of the Tanermacle?
wat do we need magus for? aggro isnt too much of a problem.
dranlu problem has been pretty much fixed for me. the defense grid helped riase the matchup to an overwhelming from 40-60 afterbarod to like 70-30 in our favor so far i havnet lost a playtest match against dranlu after boarding in 4x defense grid+1x niv-mizzet(hunted dragon seems a bit useless since if they have a skeleton vamp out its a dead card so i board in my lone niv-mizzet) and boarding out 1x hunted and 4x remand
also i finally decided to give up dragonstorm for mss, its a good deck but the wrong deck for the current meta, so ill be working for u/b pickles for a while
If ppl start to play Voidstone Gargoyle, can't we just switch it around to have a Empty the warrens kill to get around it?? Seems logical or at least a choice that should be though of.
This deck won't get much from PC, but there will be no other deck that will get something strong against us.
We get Akroma, Angel of Fury to the SB against Dralnu, Soggy and other heavy counter decks. Numot, the Devastator seems an interesting addition to the SB against Martyr or another control. Voidstone Gargoyle is too slow for anyone to play it against us. If they get a Azorius Signet out early they can play it at best on turn 4. It's slow. I don't think there's a need for going the Empty the Warrens Way or Ignite Memories as other win conditions. Remember you can still hard cast dragons early.
I don't fear Extirpate at all. Panda Connection and The Rack Discard decayed a LOT in popularity, covering about 3% of the meta, both of them. That means we need 4x Ignorant Bliss in the SB, that's all. Splashing black to remove their extirpate is just not necessary. 4x Gigadrowse, 4x Remand and 4x Ignorant Bliss buys you enough time to combo. Maybe SBing a few Madness cards like Reckless Wurm work well. But why worrying so much?
Our MD will remain untouched. The SB will need a set of Ignorant Bliss, a couple Akromas and maybe a couple of Numot.
yeah Akroma is really goos againts Dralnu, but missing protection of black, so when there are teferi and teaching she is very vulnerable to black spells, anyway, sometimes she can win the game
repeals for fast aggro and stuff like that, and irksome permanents ie cop red, ivory mask, etc. storage lands aren't necessary in the board (at least not 3) you should be running 3-5 maindeck.
red akroma is awesome, she dies to only a few black removal spells, dark banishing and dark withering come to my head-who plays those?
also going to argue for my main man numot the devastator, his color requirements can be filled w/ calciform pools and he rips apart martyrtron and dralnu.
red akroma is awesome, she dies to only a few black removal spells, dark banishing and dark withering come to my head-who plays those?
She also dies to a doubled-up Last Gasp or Sudden Death- remember the 'Dralnu' part of Dralnu? Plus Seize the Soul, Damnation... yeah, a lot of things in the MB or SB of Dralnu.
Shadow of Doubts
We get to draw a card, And prevent our opponent from searching our library and removing our win conditions.
maybe we can persecute it out, idk, this card makes dralnu an even worse matchup.
The card has to be in the graveyard for it to be expatriated (or whatever the card's called). So, if you've wasted a Rite of Flame or something earlier, then you probably deserve to have it taken out of the game. What you CAN do, however, is follow our same strategy. Obviously, discard decks'll be a pain, but that's usually been a bad matchup anyways. It's going to come down to a transformational SB, just like Heartbeat had in lieu of cranial. But if you're not facing a discard deck, here's what you do. The same thing we always do:
Drowse them out, then go off. If you've got seething songs, then get up to 9 mana and get the dragonstorm on the stack before passing priority. Worst case, what would happen is that the storm copies go on the stack (let's say 4 of them) and they let one resolve. Then, once the 1st Bogarden hits play, they double sudden shock (or some other instant speed kill), and then expatriate, stopping the rest of the storms. But that requires that they have 7 mana and 3 specific cards in hand. and you can then still drop down two hunteds and you've still done 17 damage with 12 on the table (depending on what dragons end up coming out in PC).
Also, Willbender will become ridiculously useful in this matchup. Remember that you can still unmorph in response to a Split Second and change the target of the Expatriate. Same thing could work if they print a morph card that targets (and removes) a card in a graveyard. I think that morphing in the SB might be feasible.
On the other hand, I don't think Extirpate really hurts Dragonstorm too much... it just means you'd better succeed the first time you try to go off. Really, if your opponent can make you discard vital spells, you're already going to lose, right? And you ought not to be using Rite of Flames and so on before you can go off...
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
...target card in a graveyard...
This doesn't hurt us unless we are stupid enough to play a Hellkite before going off etc. Or if they get a Rite of Flame... but that's not so scary... against Dralnu, I just build up a lot of mana, so... I'll have plenty if my Rites don't make an extra mana...
blackmail-brain pry-persecute (t4) extirpate...and that is nigh impossible to deal with. either way, they are extirpating something.
All combo decks rely on luck more than aggro and control decks. All decks that run three colors require more luck than decks with 2. I'm not saying you can't do a combo deck over 3 colors, I'm just saying that you might want to try to keep it as redundant as possible.
And seriously... Willbender works in a technical sense, but is way too slow and vulnerable to rely on. Unless you discard vital cards off of your hand while building resources, I'd just ignore the existence of Extirpate, to be frank. It just doesn't hurt Dragonstorm too much.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
Agreed. However, all the fanciful new discard engines available to Dralnu's sb is slightly frightening... Wistful Thinking
Edit: Oh, they don't have that linked? Piss.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
I also play to remove 4 Islands in my deck for 4 Watery Graves so I can sideboard in 4 Extripate against just about anything. This helps the Dralnu match incredibly, as they only get to use 1 copy of anything you want to Extripate, say Rewind. ;D
It also reads that you can get anything except a BASIC land, that's really sick, so if somone discards a Hallowed Fountain from a Compulsive Research, you can get the rest of them, or maybe those nuisance Tron peices.
Doesn't work; you get priority first when it's your turn, so even with the split second, you get to cast a spell after something hits the grave before your opponent can. It does make extra copies of Rite of Flame only generate RR, or stop a spell you've got three of in your hand, but that's it. Besides, it's not like the Dralnu player psychically knows what cards you have extra copies of in your hand, either.
... and like a 1/3 chance of drawing both in your opening hand. That's what I meant about setting yourself up for extra problems.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
It works when the spell has to resolve to generate the mana to cast the next, which is what Dragonstorm does. And they don't have to know what you have in your hand, if they see you getting ready to go off they nail whichever looks like the more likely target.
I run 4 Gemstone Mine, 1 Dreadship Reef, and now 4 Watery Grave main deck, it's pretty good odds that you'll draw a black source and the Extripate in your first couple turns. You don't need it in your opening hand. All Dragonstorm does is dig through it's library and stall until it goes off anyways, you'll find at least 1 relevant card by fourth turn between 4 Gigadrowse and 4 Extripate.
Me: I cast Rite of Flame.
Opponent: I cast... oh, dang, not in the graveyard yet. Pass priority.
Me: Rite resolves...
Opponent: Extirpate the Rite!
Me: Sorry, I have priority. I cast Seething Song.
Opponent: Oh, umm... I Extirpate the Rite now?
Me: Sure. Sadly, I just have a seething Song in my hand. But don't worry, you couldn't have gotten it anyway.
You can ask in the rules forum if you don't believe me, but I'm pretty sure I'm right on this... it only stops the grave-loving part of Rite of Flame, or cards you have at least 3 of in your hand.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
Also, can we try to splash white for Magus of the Tanermacle?
wat do we need magus for? aggro isnt too much of a problem.
dranlu problem has been pretty much fixed for me. the defense grid helped riase the matchup to an overwhelming from 40-60 afterbarod to like 70-30 in our favor so far i havnet lost a playtest match against dranlu after boarding in 4x defense grid+1x niv-mizzet(hunted dragon seems a bit useless since if they have a skeleton vamp out its a dead card so i board in my lone niv-mizzet) and boarding out 1x hunted and 4x remand
also i finally decided to give up dragonstorm for mss, its a good deck but the wrong deck for the current meta, so ill be working for u/b pickles for a while
We get Akroma, Angel of Fury to the SB against Dralnu, Soggy and other heavy counter decks. Numot, the Devastator seems an interesting addition to the SB against Martyr or another control.
Voidstone Gargoyle is too slow for anyone to play it against us. If they get a Azorius Signet out early they can play it at best on turn 4. It's slow. I don't think there's a need for going the Empty the Warrens Way or Ignite Memories as other win conditions. Remember you can still hard cast dragons early.
I don't fear Extirpate at all. Panda Connection and The Rack Discard decayed a LOT in popularity, covering about 3% of the meta, both of them. That means we need 4x Ignorant Bliss in the SB, that's all. Splashing black to remove their extirpate is just not necessary. 4x Gigadrowse, 4x Remand and 4x Ignorant Bliss buys you enough time to combo. Maybe SBing a few Madness cards like Reckless Wurm work well. But why worrying so much?
Our MD will remain untouched. The SB will need a set of Ignorant Bliss, a couple Akromas and maybe a couple of Numot.
currently playing
U/ Teachings Control
U/ Perilous Storm
U/ Aggro
U/ Korlash Control
meh
its really slow
and only adds (R)
not that good for the deck.
I don't think the storage lands are needed.
I'd go with either Repeals or Trickbinds.
red akroma is awesome, she dies to only a few black removal spells, dark banishing and dark withering come to my head-who plays those?
also going to argue for my main man numot the devastator, his color requirements can be filled w/ calciform pools and he rips apart martyrtron and dralnu.
Dralnu plays seize the soul MD.
She also dies to a doubled-up Last Gasp or Sudden Death- remember the 'Dralnu' part of Dralnu? Plus Seize the Soul, Damnation... yeah, a lot of things in the MB or SB of Dralnu.
... and it will soooo die if played morphed, because it can both be countered and killed by basically anything.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.