Well splashing Green gives you echantment removal in the board. Most of the lists I've seen are using Seal of Primordium as enchantment and artifact removal. Plus you can always sac it in a pinch to power up Tarmogoyf (the other Green Splash card) (The Seal can target itself).
Pithing Needle takes out Gargadon only if they drop it before you suspend it. It still will be played, but all Needle does is slow the Gargadon down. Warhammer is trouble, only if they have creatures to put it on. If you really wanted, you could run it in here as a board card (or maindeck) but it is kinda slow. Mogg Fanatic... fine needle it.
Martyr is a bit of a subpar creature for this deck. But it the Kithkin decks are numerous... you can slow your game down slightly and Martyr for two. I don't think Kithkin are as big of a problem, but if they are going to be that numerous, then it never hurts to be able to beat the most numerous deck there. Some of them have to win after all. Just don't sacrifice your game against Teachings. I have a sickining feeling that is all that I'll be seeing at States this year.
i would never mb pyroclasm; It is always sb material since it is useless againest control.
No idea what the meta will look like so running martyr is iffy. If i play martyr it would be md since it isn't too horrible if the deck isn't aggro.
Another artifact i think we will see a lot of is the rack. Since RDW tends to go into top deck mode, this is a threat...artifact removal is useful there.
IMO running RG gives you answers to the many enchantments we will be facing making the splash for goyf even more useful.
I'm running md pyros as oppse. To martyrs.
I dislike martyrs a lot. But I sb them for aggro match ups. I figure I can always side out the pyros for another burn against control. But I talked to the guy that works at the shop where I play he said people are playing a form of control/beatdown. What would be a good sideboard to combat that?
And if pyroclasm is a sb only card what should I replace them with?
I'm not doing any splashing. I'll just run a little artifact removal.
I have to disagree, I've piloted a mono-R version of RDW to several Top 4 finishes in FNM, plus assorted testing. The only deck that I "roll over" to is Martyr, which is losing a lot of it's oomph. It loses precisely nothing for Lorwyn coming in, as well, and has the tools to deal with nearly any situation from the new set. Here's my list:
It may not have the raw power of R/G, but the darned thing curves at 2 (until board, anyway) and is insanely consistant. It flat outraces all things Control unless they get a god hand, and even then it's a close thing. It takes the control stance against nearly any aggro deck, wiping away their critters with abandon and pinging them for ones and twos when able. The lack of direct artifact destruction hurts, but the only times I've had a major problem with it was when someone planted a Warhammer onto a Soltari Priest.
Your deck looks fine, however as sgtpie pointed out Magus of the Scroll isn't the best card to run. I'm wondering how Epochrasite is working for you because three turns seems like a long time. With your sideboard, I'd replace the Magus with Cryoclasm and you need some answer to Story Circle and Loxodon Warhammer which is where Pithing Needle comes in. Hope that helps.
I'm running Pyroclasm main but my deck is different altogether running numerous pro red creatures. However even in a normal RDW build it's just great taking out turn 2 Ascetics and troublesome Silhana Ledgewalkers.
sideboard needs help, what would you run if your meta is full of a combination of beatdown/control?
For a sideboard without green or white I'd go
4 Pyroclasm (Great against any aggro deck)
4 Cryoclasm (Great against any control or aggro deck featuring white, keeping in mind that it deals 3dmg to the controller)
4 Sudden Shock/Ghostfire (Rids of annoying Martyrs and pro red creatures respectively)
3 Pithing Needle (Shuts down Story Circle man lands and other troublesome activated abilities including Militia's Pride, Mogg Fanatics as you don't run them)
I decided to add duel lands for a green splash to run grips in my sideboard.
I also dropped the raiders and acolytes.
So I have
-1x keldon megaliths
-3x mountain
+4 highland weld(karpulsan forest when I get some)
-4 inner-flame acolyte
-4 gathan raiders
+4 anything?
+4 needs to be an elemental
Sideboard changes-
3x krosan grip(enchant/art. Removal)
4x wildfire emissary(for WW)
4x pyroclasm(for aggro)
4x boom//bust(gonna test against control)
I'm pleased to see you have added green to your deck. However it hurts my eyes to see Wildfire Emissary anywhere in your deck md or sb. Pyroclasm is more than enough to combat WW, but if it's giving you that much trouble then run Blood Knight which is also perfectly acceptable md.
I'm a bit skeptical about boom//bust, are you planning to boom or bust? If it's to boom than you still have to destroy one of your own lands. If it's to bust than do you realise that it costs 6 mana? I rarely get to 6 mana running 21 lands in my deck. I seriously suggest you take my advise and run Cryoclasm it hampers their land development AND deals THREE damage to them as well which in my books is great against control (on the basis that most control decks feature W or U).
Thanks for a few of the tips, but I've found that the Magus outright wins many, many otherwise unwinnable matches. If it goes long (AKA 6 or more turns), I need the repeatable burn sources to keep my resources up. That, and Magus of the Moon stays to kill all things control.
However, I will be adding a fourth Pyroclasm soon to the board, along with a trio of Needles. Shunt will be dropped for them for now.
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Some wonder why I carry 8 decks on me. The answer? I get tired of being boarded against in casual games, and 90% of the players I meet can't beat a jank deck I made to be tokens for a serious one.
yeah i guess blood knight better in the spot then emissary.
i might even just md it.
but i still need an elemental md.
with the deck it curves about 3 so with 2-3 lands the decks fine. and if you can mess with other decks tempo while not messing with yours its fine. i was just running boom//bust for boom. maybe if the game goes too late run bust. play it then sac. your lands in response to garg. could be tricky.
whats the point of running needle drop? ive seen it on a couple peoples decklist.
needle drop just upgrades every burn spell you play together with it so your tarfire becomes incinerate and your incinerate will be charlike thats the point of running it
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My new houserules:
1. Every player saing exiled or battlefield will be kicked out.
2. Not using you mana deals 2 points of manaburn.
3. Combat damage goes over the Stack and you can freely assign it.
4. Lifelinks does stack and doesn't safe you from dying.
5. Tokens are owned bye the one who has made them.
Everyone thinking M10 will not affect a lot of cards or Limited a lot, either has no clue about magic or has never played limited or is getting paid by wizards to do propaganda.
The reason people are running Needle Drop is because it replaces itself... but the card itself is subpar. Conditional burn like that is not something I'd want to run... I'd rather have something immediately useful, Like a Mogg Fanatic.
Is Cryoclasm good? Yes, it's one of the best LD spells ever printed. BUT, after rotation, has anyone noticed how even UW decks run hardly any Islands / Plains? They run painland, future sight land, vivids, tribal land, etc. Unless you want it against mono white (lol?), then Cryoclasm's reigning time is over. It is an amazing card, but with the rav duals leaving, you'll often have it in hand and not be able to play it.
I have to disagree with your statement that UW decks hardly runs islands or plains. You realise that Nimbus Maze needs an island or plains in play to operate properly? Assuming you are right, isn't it worth it to screw up their Nimbus Maze because they hardly run any plains or islands. I've been over to the UW Control thread and the average list runs 12+ plains or islands. Doesn't that justify running Cryoclasm in your sb?
I think cyroclasm in the sideboard is awesome. Especially if ww takes of like its suppose to. I really don't see wu that often.
I just thoght I'd try out boom and maybe even bust. Rdw can run boom//bust with out getting screwed over, especially if you play it right.
I think both can make good sideboard cards.
@xgoldenx
You are really scared of WW arn't you? The way i see it, Pyroclasm is more than enough because most of their creatures have a toughness of 2. Even of they have Wizened Cenn in play most of their creature will die anyway. Only becomes more difficult if they have the Anthem in play.
And I was wondering what Thick-skinned Goblin is doing there.
@xgoldenx
You are really scared of WW arn't you? The way i see it, Pyroclasm is more than enough because most of their creatures have a toughness of 2. Even of they have Wizened Cenn in play most of their creature will die anyway. Only becomes more difficult if they have the Anthem in play.
And I was wondering what Thick-skinned Goblin is doing there.
how does it seem im scared of ww?
thick-skinned goblin was just a filler for now. im sure my sd will change alot before i actually get to play the deck.
how can rdw ever be scared of ww? its only scared of kithkins because it has goyf
i dont know. apparently running a card that combats aggro decks makes you scared.
what works better in the sideboard, pyroclasm or martyrs.? they both work similer but martyrs can get rid of a lot biger creatures, for the same price.
My apologies, it just seemed that way because you have brought WW up several times in your posts concerning your sideboard. My bad.
I think Fortune Thief is much more effective against MGA than WW
oh yeah. i guess your right. it does also seem that way. sorry got a little ahead of myself.
also running 8 cards md that hate white kinda makes it seem that way.
i just know where i play, it was common to see ww decks last time they got popular, and i actually seen a couple poping up. but the guy that works at the shop said its more control/beatdown.
so im more trying to alter my sideboard for that.
i dont know. apparently running a card that combats aggro decks makes you scared.
what works better in the sideboard, pyroclasm or martyrs.? they both work similer but martyrs can get rid of a lot biger creatures, for the same price.
Pyroclasm, hands down. sure, the Martyr can hit bigger stuff, but it has two big flaws. First, it won't touch fliers. Second and far more important, it requires you to keep a handful of spells uncast. RDW just doesn't work that way most games.
Oh, and Deserteagle, WW has significant amounts of removal now (O-Ring and Crib Swap), so I do not believe that Fortune Thief will be a good idea.
Some wonder why I carry 8 decks on me. The answer? I get tired of being boarded against in casual games, and 90% of the players I meet can't beat a jank deck I made to be tokens for a serious one.
I think Fortune Thief is much more effective against MGA than WW
I agree, white is getting some pretty good removal now meaning that mono white decks are more competive than ever. Soo annoying playing martyr decks, I just can't beat it.
im not sure if running the thief is worth it even against mga. they have lignify and utopia vow which cancel the thiefs effect and you still die.
or am i wrong?
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Pithing Needle takes out Gargadon only if they drop it before you suspend it. It still will be played, but all Needle does is slow the Gargadon down. Warhammer is trouble, only if they have creatures to put it on. If you really wanted, you could run it in here as a board card (or maindeck) but it is kinda slow. Mogg Fanatic... fine needle it.
Martyr is a bit of a subpar creature for this deck. But it the Kithkin decks are numerous... you can slow your game down slightly and Martyr for two. I don't think Kithkin are as big of a problem, but if they are going to be that numerous, then it never hurts to be able to beat the most numerous deck there. Some of them have to win after all. Just don't sacrifice your game against Teachings. I have a sickining feeling that is all that I'll be seeing at States this year.
No idea what the meta will look like so running martyr is iffy. If i play martyr it would be md since it isn't too horrible if the deck isn't aggro.
Another artifact i think we will see a lot of is the rack. Since RDW tends to go into top deck mode, this is a threat...artifact removal is useful there.
IMO running RG gives you answers to the many enchantments we will be facing making the splash for goyf even more useful.
I dislike martyrs a lot. But I sb them for aggro match ups. I figure I can always side out the pyros for another burn against control. But I talked to the guy that works at the shop where I play he said people are playing a form of control/beatdown. What would be a good sideboard to combat that?
And if pyroclasm is a sb only card what should I replace them with?
I'm not doing any splashing. I'll just run a little artifact removal.
Your deck looks fine, however as sgtpie pointed out Magus of the Scroll isn't the best card to run. I'm wondering how Epochrasite is working for you because three turns seems like a long time. With your sideboard, I'd replace the Magus with Cryoclasm and you need some answer to Story Circle and Loxodon Warhammer which is where Pithing Needle comes in. Hope that helps.
I'm running Pyroclasm main but my deck is different altogether running numerous pro red creatures. However even in a normal RDW build it's just great taking out turn 2 Ascetics and troublesome Silhana Ledgewalkers.
im hoping to play at fnm once lorwyns legal.
any changes?
1x keldon megaliths
2x ghitu encampment
17x mountain
Creature-24
4x flamekin bladewhirl
4x inner-flame acolyte
4x keldon marauders
4x sulfer elemental
4x gathan raiders
4x greater gargadon
4x incinerate
4x rift bolt
4x shock
4x heat shimmer
3x pyroclasm
4x wildfire emissary
3x fury charm
For a sideboard without green or white I'd go
4 Pyroclasm (Great against any aggro deck)
4 Cryoclasm (Great against any control or aggro deck featuring white, keeping in mind that it deals 3dmg to the controller)
4 Sudden Shock/Ghostfire (Rids of annoying Martyrs and pro red creatures respectively)
3 Pithing Needle (Shuts down Story Circle man lands and other troublesome activated abilities including Militia's Pride, Mogg Fanatics as you don't run them)
I also dropped the raiders and acolytes.
So I have
-1x keldon megaliths
-3x mountain
+4 highland weld(karpulsan forest when I get some)
-4 inner-flame acolyte
-4 gathan raiders
+4 anything?
+4 needs to be an elemental
Sideboard changes-
3x krosan grip(enchant/art. Removal)
4x wildfire emissary(for WW)
4x pyroclasm(for aggro)
4x boom//bust(gonna test against control)
I'm pleased to see you have added green to your deck. However it hurts my eyes to see Wildfire Emissary anywhere in your deck md or sb. Pyroclasm is more than enough to combat WW, but if it's giving you that much trouble then run Blood Knight which is also perfectly acceptable md.
I'm a bit skeptical about boom//bust, are you planning to boom or bust? If it's to boom than you still have to destroy one of your own lands. If it's to bust than do you realise that it costs 6 mana? I rarely get to 6 mana running 21 lands in my deck. I seriously suggest you take my advise and run Cryoclasm it hampers their land development AND deals THREE damage to them as well which in my books is great against control (on the basis that most control decks feature W or U).
However, I will be adding a fourth Pyroclasm soon to the board, along with a trio of Needles. Shunt will be dropped for them for now.
i might even just md it.
but i still need an elemental md.
with the deck it curves about 3 so with 2-3 lands the decks fine. and if you can mess with other decks tempo while not messing with yours its fine. i was just running boom//bust for boom. maybe if the game goes too late run bust. play it then sac. your lands in response to garg. could be tricky.
whats the point of running needle drop? ive seen it on a couple peoples decklist.
1. Every player saing exiled or battlefield will be kicked out.
2. Not using you mana deals 2 points of manaburn.
3. Combat damage goes over the Stack and you can freely assign it.
4. Lifelinks does stack and doesn't safe you from dying.
5. Tokens are owned bye the one who has made them.
Everyone thinking M10 will not affect a lot of cards or Limited a lot, either has no clue about magic or has never played limited or is getting paid by wizards to do propaganda.
But yeah its subpar, I'd rather just run shock. Gets the job done better. Even if you don't get card advantage.
I have to disagree with your statement that UW decks hardly runs islands or plains. You realise that Nimbus Maze needs an island or plains in play to operate properly? Assuming you are right, isn't it worth it to screw up their Nimbus Maze because they hardly run any plains or islands. I've been over to the UW Control thread and the average list runs 12+ plains or islands. Doesn't that justify running Cryoclasm in your sb?
I just thoght I'd try out boom and maybe even bust. Rdw can run boom//bust with out getting screwed over, especially if you play it right.
I think both can make good sideboard cards.
My current sideborad looks like this
4x krosan grip
4x boom//bust
4x thick-skinned goblin
3x pyroclasm
What would you run to combat control/beatdown decks?
You are really scared of WW arn't you? The way i see it, Pyroclasm is more than enough because most of their creatures have a toughness of 2. Even of they have Wizened Cenn in play most of their creature will die anyway. Only becomes more difficult if they have the Anthem in play.
And I was wondering what Thick-skinned Goblin is doing there.
how does it seem im scared of ww?
thick-skinned goblin was just a filler for now. im sure my sd will change alot before i actually get to play the deck.
i dont know. apparently running a card that combats aggro decks makes you scared.
what works better in the sideboard, pyroclasm or martyrs.? they both work similer but martyrs can get rid of a lot biger creatures, for the same price.
My apologies, it just seemed that way because you have brought WW up several times in your posts concerning your sideboard. My bad.
I think Fortune Thief is much more effective against MGA than WW
oh yeah. i guess your right. it does also seem that way. sorry got a little ahead of myself.
also running 8 cards md that hate white kinda makes it seem that way.
i just know where i play, it was common to see ww decks last time they got popular, and i actually seen a couple poping up. but the guy that works at the shop said its more control/beatdown.
so im more trying to alter my sideboard for that.
Pyroclasm, hands down. sure, the Martyr can hit bigger stuff, but it has two big flaws. First, it won't touch fliers. Second and far more important, it requires you to keep a handful of spells uncast. RDW just doesn't work that way most games.
Oh, and Deserteagle, WW has significant amounts of removal now (O-Ring and Crib Swap), so I do not believe that Fortune Thief will be a good idea.
I'll just quote myself:
I agree, white is getting some pretty good removal now meaning that mono white decks are more competive than ever. Soo annoying playing martyr decks, I just can't beat it.
or am i wrong?