Thoughtseize, IMO again is important to board in, take either their Bitterblossoms or counters. It is important to resolve Warhammer to trample over their defense. I also board in Stupor to further cripple their hands if everything goes as planned.
Some like to extirpate their Snags / counter magic also.
Im sure there are other ways to play around them, but if you can prevent them from landing a bitterblossom, you will also clear the way for your Demigods later on.
Game 2
I sided out two terror and a damnation for three deathmark
He mulligans to 5 goes turn one birds and i go turn 1 deathmark. He plays another birds turn two and i play a BB. Turn three he plays doran, my turn i play another deathmark on his doran and invert his birds and he scoops:D
1-0-0
Round 2
MBC versus Faeries
Game 1
On the play i get turn two BB. He plays his own BB on his turn two. Turn three i drop war hammer and start going to town. He plays a couple faeis but he cant handel the hammer, win.
Game 2
He gets the classic im a faerie deck on the play and counter everything you do and ruin your tempo so i lose.
Game 3
On the play i get turn two BB and turn three hammer again. I proceed to drop a demigod which gets countered. I drop a sewcond demigod and he counters it before its ability clears the stack, so his n00bness costed him the game bc demigod + hammer = game.
2-0-0
Round 3
MBC versus GW hybrid stompy
Game 1
I play multipe dusk urchins in this game and draw like 7 cards. His persisting dudes are really annoying and kitchen finks gains him an annoying 8 life. But i had a lot more CA. I get a korlash + hammer online and he cant stop it.
Game 2
I sided in 3 deathmarks for 3 nameless
He curves out perfectly and i see 0 damnations and BtQ and oversoul of dusk and wilt-leaf leige proceed to rape my face.
Game 3
I get BB and hammer tech online. He overextends in hopes to kill me but meets a damnation and scoops.
3-0-0
Round 4
MBC versus RDW
I was a little nervous going into this game bc i though this was a bad MU.
Game 1
He open on the play with shock. I open with a desert. He play keldon marauders. I played a swamp and pass turn. His turn he incinerates and swings with marauders which meets a nameles inversion which leaves me with 13 life. My turn i drop a BB and pass wondering if BB was going to be the end of me. His turn he play another marauder and a shock to my face. which takes me to 11. My turn i draw hammer:Dand play it,. however he still has a coule cards in hand which worries me. His turn he swings and i chump with BB token. my turn im down to 9. I euip hammer to my newly made token and pass turn. His turn marauders dirs and i go to 8. He drops a crusher and passes turn and which point i terror his crusher. My turn i go to 7 and get another token. I draw corrupt and am very happy, i swing with token which meets shock than follow up with a corrupt. which swings me up to 13 and my opponant was like wtf. I pass turn and he draw a land and plays it passing turn. My turn a get another corrupt! Which i play immediately dealing another 6 taking me up to 18. His next turn he draws another land a scoops. NICE
Game two
We were talking inebtween rounds an he asked if i had any torments for trade and i asked how many he needed. He said three which told me he must have only had one, which was good bc i have three dragons claws and 4 bottle gnomes in my sb.:D:D:D:D:D:D
so i sided out three BB and 4 urchins for the aforementioned cards.
Since he is on the play again he opens withh shock. My turn i lay a desert.
His turn he incinerates me. My turn i drop dragons claw. His turn he drops marauders and claw cancels out the damage. My turn i drop bottle gomes. His turn he swings with marauders and i block with gnomes and sac it to gain 3 putting me at a healthy 18. My turn i drop another dragons clawsand pass turn. He looks at the board for a moment and enter scoop phase. Game
4-0-0
Not a bad day overall i got 1st place and 8 packs as well as a sexy pendelhaven. MBC is just so good.
Congrats with the results, And we all appriciate the match by match analysis!!! Didnt look like you had easy match ups at all.
I like your list, its very similar to mine, only thing i can question is not running the usual 4-ofs (like damnations, bitterblossom, tenrals...etc) But running like 3-offs and Btq. How has that worked out for you? Also wanted to know how 24 lands was with no accel as well as 4 demigods. I would rather run 4 bbz, and 3 demigods, just my 0.02....
Congrats with the results, And we all appriciate the match by match analysis!!! Didnt look like you had easy match ups at all.
I like your list, its very similar to mine, only thing i can question is not running the usual 4-ofs (like damnations, bitterblossom, tenrals...etc) But running like 3-offs and Btq. How has that worked out for you? Also wanted to know how 24 lands was with no accel as well as 4 demigods. I would rather run 4 bbz, and 3 demigods, just my 0.02....
Keep in mind that Korlash IS acceleration if you use it right. Unless you are sure that they have a way to easily kill a Korlash, Grandure your extra one, sometimes thats a good play as any with BtQ. A way to easily get korlash above the opponents creatures and sometimes boost you over them in terms of lands.
EDIT: The only things I run 4 of are korlash, urchins, BB, and damnation, everything else is 1,2,3 ofs, depending on how useful it has proved.
Unless you are sure that they have a way to easily kill a Korlash, Grandure your extra one, sometimes thats a good play as any with BtQ.
Generally, I would say that grandeuring Korlash is a good play, even if you are basically 100 percent sure they will kill the one you have on board, unless it's your only threat in play/hand, or you are worried you won't get another threat to stick. With Demigod in the deck and all the other tools, the extra mana is often more helpful than a big creature that doesn't trample (without help anyway). Actually, I guess that's another exception. If you have a warhammer in play, keeping a Korlash on the table is always good :).
My vote goes to NO. Vampiric Link is not needed and isn't a good choice of card at all. We already got Warhammer and Tendrils to gain us life. + a bunch of other cards that don't even make the cut either.
I understand that you use it to neuter an opponents creature, but I think there are better options.
Sudden Spoiling will not stop a Sheilded Leige or Cavaliers. The sudden spoiling takes effect on stack 6b and the shield takes effect in 6c/d. So we have to deal with it before the sheild gets on it.
Congrats with the results, And we all appriciate the match by match analysis!!! Didnt look like you had easy match ups at all.
I like your list, its very similar to mine, only thing i can question is not running the usual 4-ofs (like damnations, bitterblossom, tenrals...etc) But running like 3-offs and Btq. How has that worked out for you? Also wanted to know how 24 lands was with no accel as well as 4 demigods. I would rather run 4 bbz, and 3 demigods, just my 0.02....
Well though my testing i have found that BTQ lets me run 3 of insgtead of 4 of certain cards. Believe me 4 damnations are really nice but how many games have you played where you only need one and draw 2 or 3. BB i actually just like as a three of as i see it pretty regularly but just enough to want it. I typically dont like laying down two blossoms. And i only run 3 tendrils because i run 2 hammer and 2 corrupt. And just to boot, going to three of increases extra slots in the deck for other good cards, like terror and a singleton extirpate, which by the way has been amazing. On the 24 land and no accel issue, my list has pretty much been tuned to this point. My curve flows pretty well, I have enough early drops like BB/inversion/terror/hammer/urchins that i dont need to ramp into 8 mana before i can play my deck.
If you are running Beseech the Queen, you really should have a few silver bullets in the deck. Just for those random, "I really could go for a _______ right now."
4 BtQ is a must at this point imho. It allows the deck to be somewhat competitive, and actually function as a control deck to boot. Tutoring up Warhammers, Damnations, Korlash (for granduer, whatever), or going for the kill (or life) with Tendrils/Corrupt, it puts this deck in another league.
That being said, I'm still not convinced with Urchins for the ca factor in this deck. I'd prefer some straight draw (Scarscale or Muse, which is meh), or more CA critters like Redcap or Epochrasite.
Problem with Scarscale is that we don't run enough creature for it to be consistently good, and we got enough 4cc to find room for Redcap. Epochrasite is solid, but you have to chose between Mana Accel or him. You can't run both because you have to run Bitterblossom. Urchin fits the glove be cause he replaces himself or trade 1-1 with your opponent at minimum. Plus he is 3cc which is just right for the deck to smooth out the curve together with BtQ and Warhammers.
Yeah, this deck costs some serious cash. Korlash, Profane, Damnation, Bitterblossom and Thoughtseize are all rather expensive.
Sudden Death has been amazing in my experience. The only things it won't kill are some of the pro black stuff, and some ultra-huge creatures in some of the Ramp decks. Usually we have our own Korlash to combat those guys (or a giant Tendrils or Damnation).
Demigod of Revenge should always be x4, imo, especially as he gains power as more end up in your GY. Against some decks I've had to play multiple Demigods, especially as some get condemned or o-ringed. Their evasion and haste + the recursion ability are all so powerful, I'm surprised more people aren't blow away by its power. It really is a MUST in this deck.
I've found 3 Demigods to be sufficient in my deck. I usually don't like to see it in my opening hand at all. And drawing one, and tutor for one late-game is usually enough to beasts my opponent. This is my personal opinion tho.
3 or 4 doesn't really matter. I'd probably go 4 if I also played Coldsteel Heart, cause then I would be much more happy to see it in my opening hand or draw them more consistent withing my first 4 turns.
I understand that you use it to neuter an opponents creature, but I think there are better options.
Sudden Spoiling will not stop a Sheilded Leige or Cavaliers. The sudden spoiling takes effect on stack 6b and the shield takes effect in 6c/d. So we have to deal with it before the sheild gets on it.
You sure about that?, I thought it cancels anything that came before it, since the aura came in before.
EDIT: spoiling has never let me down, about half the time it ends up as a one sided wrath. Between BB tokens, mutavault, and desert there are plenty of things that can zap them once they are small and with no teeth.
Last night i was testing vs G/W/b doran agro, and after winning game 1 (just overran with korlash/profane after stalling with blossoms/kill), we playd g2 and 3.
I have to say that the match up is not easy. Most creatures have persists, and when its
Turn 1 - Birds
Turn 2 - Doran
Turn 3 - Sheild...
All i could do was stall with bitterblossom, but he was swinging with 2/7 Dealing 7... He was killed able to kill me before i could profane(for 7!)/sudden death (twice).
G3 i was able to stall with bb and win with profane (fear baby) but i woulda done next turn... We have stronger topdecks, but a shield on a doran really hurt. Suggestions on this match up? besides obvious Spoiling and deathmark... (or edict)
Last night i was testing vs G/W/b doran agro, and after winning game 1 (just overran with korlash/profane after stalling with blossoms/kill), we playd g2 and 3.
I have to say that the match up is not easy. Most creatures have persists, and when its
Turn 1 - Birds
Turn 2 - Doran
Turn 3 - Sheild...
All i could do was stall with bitterblossom, but he was swinging with 2/7 Dealing 7... He was killed able to kill me before i could profane(for 7!)/sudden death (twice).
G3 i was able to stall with bb and win with profane (fear baby) but i woulda done next turn... We have stronger topdecks, but a shield on a doran really hurt. Suggestions on this match up? besides obvious Spoiling and deathmark... (or edict)
Shield is a pain in the ass for sure since nothing we have can effectively deal with it once it is on the board. We have to hit it before it can have an effect on the game.
Last night i was testing vs G/W/b doran agro, and after winning game 1 (just overran with korlash/profane after stalling with blossoms/kill), we playd g2 and 3.
I have to say that the match up is not easy. Most creatures have persists, and when its
Turn 1 - Birds
Turn 2 - Doran
Turn 3 - Sheild...
All i could do was stall with bitterblossom, but he was swinging with 2/7 Dealing 7... He was killed able to kill me before i could profane(for 7!)/sudden death (twice).
Why didn't stalling with BB work? Doran doesn't have trample and shield doesn't give it to him. Or do you mean that stalling with BB would have been a potential answer if you drew it? Because it seems to me that if you did have a Bitterblossom, you would have had more than enough time to set up and kill him, around the Doran if necessary, or kill it like you described.
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Some like to extirpate their Snags / counter magic also.
Im sure there are other ways to play around them, but if you can prevent them from landing a bitterblossom, you will also clear the way for your Demigods later on.
4 is a whole lot harder to play around.
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
Congrats with the results, And we all appriciate the match by match analysis!!! Didnt look like you had easy match ups at all.
I like your list, its very similar to mine, only thing i can question is not running the usual 4-ofs (like damnations, bitterblossom, tenrals...etc) But running like 3-offs and Btq. How has that worked out for you? Also wanted to know how 24 lands was with no accel as well as 4 demigods. I would rather run 4 bbz, and 3 demigods, just my 0.02....
Keep in mind that Korlash IS acceleration if you use it right. Unless you are sure that they have a way to easily kill a Korlash, Grandure your extra one, sometimes thats a good play as any with BtQ. A way to easily get korlash above the opponents creatures and sometimes boost you over them in terms of lands.
EDIT: The only things I run 4 of are korlash, urchins, BB, and damnation, everything else is 1,2,3 ofs, depending on how useful it has proved.
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Generally, I would say that grandeuring Korlash is a good play, even if you are basically 100 percent sure they will kill the one you have on board, unless it's your only threat in play/hand, or you are worried you won't get another threat to stick. With Demigod in the deck and all the other tools, the extra mana is often more helpful than a big creature that doesn't trample (without help anyway). Actually, I guess that's another exception. If you have a warhammer in play, keeping a Korlash on the table is always good :).
PS...I added the demigods in play today and they definitely kick ass. a must of 4.
Standard
BGDamn AggroBG
RGWild DragonsRG
Time Spiral Block
BRPing and DieBR
Hammer does the life gain thing AND gives trample.
I can't see that hitting MB, Consume Spirit would be played MB before that most likely.
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Sudden Spoiling will not stop a Sheilded Leige or Cavaliers. The sudden spoiling takes effect on stack 6b and the shield takes effect in 6c/d. So we have to deal with it before the sheild gets on it.
Well though my testing i have found that BTQ lets me run 3 of insgtead of 4 of certain cards. Believe me 4 damnations are really nice but how many games have you played where you only need one and draw 2 or 3. BB i actually just like as a three of as i see it pretty regularly but just enough to want it. I typically dont like laying down two blossoms. And i only run 3 tendrils because i run 2 hammer and 2 corrupt. And just to boot, going to three of increases extra slots in the deck for other good cards, like terror and a singleton extirpate, which by the way has been amazing. On the 24 land and no accel issue, my list has pretty much been tuned to this point. My curve flows pretty well, I have enough early drops like BB/inversion/terror/hammer/urchins that i dont need to ramp into 8 mana before i can play my deck.
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@ Dark: It's pretty much amazing.
That being said, I'm still not convinced with Urchins for the ca factor in this deck. I'd prefer some straight draw (Scarscale or Muse, which is meh), or more CA critters like Redcap or Epochrasite.
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Sudden Death has been amazing in my experience. The only things it won't kill are some of the pro black stuff, and some ultra-huge creatures in some of the Ramp decks. Usually we have our own Korlash to combat those guys (or a giant Tendrils or Damnation).
Demigod of Revenge should always be x4, imo, especially as he gains power as more end up in your GY. Against some decks I've had to play multiple Demigods, especially as some get condemned or o-ringed. Their evasion and haste + the recursion ability are all so powerful, I'm surprised more people aren't blow away by its power. It really is a MUST in this deck.
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3 or 4 doesn't really matter. I'd probably go 4 if I also played Coldsteel Heart, cause then I would be much more happy to see it in my opening hand or draw them more consistent withing my first 4 turns.
You sure about that?, I thought it cancels anything that came before it, since the aura came in before.
EDIT: spoiling has never let me down, about half the time it ends up as a one sided wrath. Between BB tokens, mutavault, and desert there are plenty of things that can zap them once they are small and with no teeth.
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
I have to say that the match up is not easy. Most creatures have persists, and when its
Turn 1 - Birds
Turn 2 - Doran
Turn 3 - Sheild...
All i could do was stall with bitterblossom, but he was swinging with 2/7 Dealing 7... He was killed able to kill me before i could profane(for 7!)/sudden death (twice).
G3 i was able to stall with bb and win with profane (fear baby) but i woulda done next turn... We have stronger topdecks, but a shield on a doran really hurt. Suggestions on this match up? besides obvious Spoiling and deathmark... (or edict)
Doran on turn 3 with a sheild GOOD LORD OUCH.
I say you side in 15 Deathmarks....
Why didn't stalling with BB work? Doran doesn't have trample and shield doesn't give it to him. Or do you mean that stalling with BB would have been a potential answer if you drew it? Because it seems to me that if you did have a Bitterblossom, you would have had more than enough time to set up and kill him, around the Doran if necessary, or kill it like you described.