Problem with the 2/7 flying indestructable doran was that he was swining and sinse he runs black he had removal for my bb tokens... and other threats as well. taking 7 a few times hurt, but he eventually outnumbered me cuz of persist. He also wipped out garruk, but i think i took care of it before he could overrun*
General advices
A mind trick that can be very useful is BtQ for spoiling... opponent is often afraid to attack especially with tokens and deserts in play and this give us time to set up our defense line.
Another trick is to BtQ for a duplicate of any card (possibly sudden death, spoiling or korlash). You play the first, and when you play the second in a row is always devastating because unexpected.
Again, spoiling can be used on defence and when attacking. Don't be afraid to send Korlash with his trusty hammer in the red zone when you have mana to regenerate and spoiling in your hand... but watch out for condemn.
This is not an easy deck to pilot, sure is one of the most amusing.
All good points. Especially that this deck is not easy to pilot. Don't write it off if you don't do well with it a couple of times, this deck punishes mistakes pretty harshly.
BtQ is a good thing, allows silver bullets strategy, but there are some spells i need in my starting 7 and I don't want to waste a turn to tutor for it. 4th turn is damnation time, a turn later could be too much later, and this is even more true when we don't play artifact acceleration. Cornerstone cards should be played 4x.
I play 4x urchins, 3x BB and 3x Epochrasite to curve out into damnation being sure I don't take too much damage and don't waste cards in the effort (all my early permanents, if unanswered properly, are self-replacing or revenants).
This is the curve of my deck:
1CC, 1 card (Extirpate, silver bullet)
2CC, 6 cards (Epochrasite, BB)
3CC, 14 cards (Urchins, Warhammer, Sudden death, Sudden Spoiling, BtQ)
4CC, 11 cards (Damnation, Korlash, Tendrils)
5CC, 3 cards (Demigod)
2xCC, 1 card (Profane, silver bullet)
The concept is, why should I always search for a damnation i want to play always on turn 4 (and so playing it turn 5) when I could possibly increase the chances to have it in my first 7, and use BtQ to set a deeper game plan fetching something else?
Well between nameless inversion and terror i believe i have enough eary game removal so that t4 damnation is less needed, besides 3 are seen pretty regularly anyway, but thats just me:rolleyes:
I like Haunting Hymn since it can just own the control player. But I would like to see a few breakdowns of the fae match before I actually consider taking this deck past testing.
Well between nameless inversion and terror i believe i have enough eary game removal so that t4 damnation is less needed, besides 3 are seen pretty regularly anyway, but thats just me:rolleyes:
Aside from playing jedi mind tricks on your opponent, don't you want to avoid using early game removal if you're holding turn 4 Damnation? Getting max CA against your opponent is the name of the game, right?
just a few notes on the deck
the fullminator mages has been performing very very well. by taking out pesky Treetop Village and mutavaults while maybe trading with something. Its a very interesting card, I believe this is the right deck for the card, as it has flexibility in this like unlike in other decks (which just uses him as a LD spell)
I basically find the mage by accident when I was testing alternatives for the urchin slot, something I do a lot when testing decks, and its been performing superbly, I would recommend everyone at least give them a try.
I play 25 lands cuz the deck seems very mana hungry to me, and I don't really want to play mindstone.
I really think 4 BtQ is too much, 3 seems good to me
the land is sort of a mess, 7 colorless land havn't really been a problem so far (but drawing 2 urborg happens all the time).....
I really want 4 Deserts against faeries, but mutavaults are such good combos with the sudden spoiling.
No terror/Nameless inversion
I would love to fit in some Terrors, but I simply Don't have the slots, RDW is quite popular in my area so I really want 4 Tendrils MD, and all the other slot seems pretty good too!
Thanks for the help guys
Also how does this deck do against faeries, seems like it would do alright, but I havnt done enough testing to be sure.....
Finally got all the pieces I need for this deck delivered as of today! Talk about cutting it close for regionals, its like 3 days away for me!
Anyway back on topic, how many Sudden Spoilings do people think are enough in the sideboard? My thoughts are 2 or perhaps even 3.
At the moment my sideboard is geared up against control and GW decks, I am not sure whether or not to have options for RDW as I haven't come across any as of yet at FNM however regionals is much bigger so you would think there'd be a few RDW decks about.
@ Astral: are you running 2 spoiling main? You should. It's THAT good.
How is the f-bomb working in the sideboard?
My friend, who is only the best Magic player I know, keeps telling me that Tombstalker belongs in at worst the SB, in any MBC deck. I say no, but I can't think of any compelling reason why because his cost most of the time is 2BB. By the same token, he also believes that Vess should be a BtQ silver bullet (one bullet to fetch another). Good ideas?
Well for one thing, Tombstalker would not work quite as well in some builds because they use things that don't hit the yard (BB) and things that come back (epoch) and reanimation (profane).
My build in particular I try to avoid spending cards whenever possible.
If a Sudden Spoiling Combat trick (with BB tokens, desert, and mutavault) would work just as well as a Damnation, I use it instead. Thus saving my creatures (mabey a korlash, mabey a demigod). With draw that is so unreliable(urchins) its good to get used to milking the most of cards.
EDIT: about vess, if we were running diabolic tutor then it would not be a problem, ATM however the earliest you could tutor for her with BtQ is turn 5. She might be worth it as a test, but she will rarely get summoned with BtQ as you SHOULD be using that to get what you need earlier(urchins, BB, warhammer, sudden death, sudden spoiling, mentor, slaughter pact, another korlash for grandure) you name it, and there is a card 4cc or lower that can deal with it.
I have tested Fmage, and its too situational for this deck. Some match ups it was a 2/2 for 3, which i didnt like at all. With the meta as fast as it is now, i would rather play Dusks for sure... Fmage is a sb card at best, and even then i think we have better options. This deck doesnt have great card draw spells so we have to rely on POWERFull topdecks lategame... Ive drawn a mage turn 5-6 and it had NO impact on the game. I really think epochrosite is better in this deck...
So i have been testing alot online (mws is not the best testing app, but all i have access to.) Someone asked to breakdown the Fae match. So lets see.
Usually this is how my matchs go. If on the play i try to land BB/epoch 2nd turn and/or dusk turn 3. They usually get out a bb or sprite on 2nd turn or w8 to counter with snag. 4th i usually do nuthing but swing in with dusk/tokens. At eot they usually flash in Scion, which i tenrals after it resolves.
Now its their 4th turn, nuthing on board, or bb with tokens. They pass, on my upkeep they try to Clique or just sit on a cryptic. Mindja this happens every GAME. Usually with Clique on stack i sudden death it (4 md) or tenrals it (4md). In bad situations i just get tapped out and take my turn. Since i can chump with bb, kill fae with deserts (4md) and Play instants (with split second) this match up is not hard unless they have god hand/draws.
Only times i have trouble is when they play 1st turn An Vision, 2nd turn BB, 3rd turn sprite/scion, 4th turn command/clique and i dont draw anything but 4cc+ spells. But after sb this match up is easy - 4 thougthseize, and terrors take care of most threats. So yeah good news - the "best deck in t2" is 50/50, 60/40 after board =)
Thats my current list. And I´ve being trying and testing a lot and tonight I´ll try it in a round of test with friends.
Some Thoughts:
I might cut out BtQ for a Loxodon Warhammer. I cant find room for both. Im not a big fan of the artifact but I know who powerful it can be.
The problem with BtQ for me is: sometimes I cant get what I want, specially when I got turn3: 2 swamps and 1 desert.
I played silver bullets to find with it, but i realized that I´m not like this kind of player.
Profane Command is @#@#@#@#@@! Some time I want to have another. It kills, its reanimate, its a finisher and on turn 4 for a eventually discarted epochrasite is insane.
I played Mind Stones and Coldsteel heart and prove not to be worth it. Mind stone is better (mid-late game) even with snow-engine, that I like it and helps a to create a bigger korlarsh, filter ur draw and got a huge corrupt.
Corrupt: I´m a fan. PERIOD. Its not going anywhere. Its stays! Even if Im not played Urza´s block. On regz I can remember a play like this:
turn 2 coldsteel heart;
turn 3: Korlarsh. EOT Grandeur.
Turn 4: Swimg, for 5, Grim Haverst, to 7.
Turn 5: Swimg and Corrupt was game!
So I´m keeping 3 of them!
Side board is my concern. Can´t find something good enough:
Sideboard
4 Thoughtsize
4 Bottle Gnomes (must stay because of my environment)
2 Extirpate
3 Sudden Spoiling
2 Pithing Neddle
I was thinking play mind shatter again, because that is very good aggainst GW and RG Ramps.
Just not sure about Neddles. Suggestions? Liliana maybe? Or Stupor against faeries?
Thanks for using card tags... But deck tags are not only quicker, they look nicer too.Here are some instructions on how to use them. -CrAzEd MiKe
The problem here is that you got too many "competing" 2 drops. You run Epoch, bitterblossom and coldsteel heart all who wants to be dropped as early as possible to be effective. IMO you ahve to chose between 2 out of the 3.
The problem here is that you got too many "competing" 2 drops. You run Epoch, bitterblossom and coldsteel heart all who wants to be dropped as early as possible to be effective. IMO you ahve to chose between 2 out of the 3.
Not really, its 9 cards out of 60. I don't know if I'm going to get 2 of them each game. Plus they both depend on whats out there turn 2.... If its aggro I'm dropping Epochrsite... then turn 3 Coldsteel... I probably don't play BB til I know its needed or safe. So I don't think we need to drop anything here. Just play smart.
I usually drop BB turn 2 unless I see a mountain on the otherside of the table. And turn 3 I usually want to play Urchins or BtQ for something (removal or Bitterblossom or sometimes, even swamps.
I see your point, but to make your curve more effective, I'd cut either the Epochs or coldsteels.
I usually drop BB turn 2 unless I see a mountain on the otherside of the table. And turn 3 I usually want to play Urchins or BtQ for something (removal or Bitterblossom or sometimes, even swamps.
I see your point, but to make your curve more effective, I'd cut either the Epochs or coldsteels.
-3 Epochrosite
+3 Sudden Death
Man we really need a good 1 drop besides Thoughtseize.
Man we really need a good 1 drop besides Thoughtseize.
Reprint Vendetta!! Best card for killing utility 1 and 2 drops ever.
In all seriousness, you are right, 1 drops are seriously lacking, especially with Thoughtseize not being all that great main anymore with all the aggro. I don't think there's any 1 drop I'd like to play over the cards we are already playing though.
Also, with your 3x Profane Command (more regularly seen 2x in builds here) you can trade some of your terrors with a couple of Shriekmaw to maximize Profane Commands.
Cause now you don't have to worry about instant speed removal since you added the extra Sudden Deaths paired with a couple of terrors and tendrils you have good enough instant removal package, play a couple of Shriekmaws paired with Profane Command is the icing on the cake:P
Reprint Vendetta!! Best card for killing utility 1 and 2 drops ever.
In all seriousness, you are right, 1 drops are seriously lacking, especially with Thoughtseize not being all that great main anymore with all the aggro. I don't think there's any 1 drop I'd like to play over the cards we are already playing though.
Well I've been throwing this build around in my head... competes with aggro better...
Thing is, its not aggro this deck has problems with (unless you REALLY have no idea how to play it, no offense meant to anyone ) , its the more controlling decks that can veto your answers/threats, thats what thoughtseize and extirpate are for. BB and spoiling are amazing in all games I have played.
All good points. Especially that this deck is not easy to pilot. Don't write it off if you don't do well with it a couple of times, this deck punishes mistakes pretty harshly.
4x Dusk Urchins
4x Korlash
3x Nameless Inversion
3x Sudden Death
4x Tendrils of Corruption
4x Beseech the Queen
3x Damnation
2x Corrupt
3x Bitterblossom
2x Desert
2x Urza's Factory
2x Leechridden Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
17x Swamp
This deck smacked around merfolk all night last night. It was actually rather amusing.
Well between nameless inversion and terror i believe i have enough eary game removal so that t4 damnation is less needed, besides 3 are seen pretty regularly anyway, but thats just me:rolleyes:
Thanks to spiderboy4 and [High~Light Studios] for the AMAZING sig and avatar!
Aside from playing jedi mind tricks on your opponent, don't you want to avoid using early game removal if you're holding turn 4 Damnation? Getting max CA against your opponent is the name of the game, right?
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Fullminator Mage
4 Korlash, Heir to blackblade
Spells:
4 Damnation
3 Beseech the Queen
2 Profane Command
2 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Sudden Death
2 Sudden Spoiling
4 Bitterblossom
2 Urborg, Tomb of yawgomoth
2 Leechridden Swamp
4 Desert
3 Mutavault
15 Swamps
4 Thoughtseize
4 Extirpate
2 Sudden Death
2 Sudden spoiling
3 Bottle Gnomes
just a few notes on the deck
the fullminator mages has been performing very very well. by taking out pesky Treetop Village and mutavaults while maybe trading with something. Its a very interesting card, I believe this is the right deck for the card, as it has flexibility in this like unlike in other decks (which just uses him as a LD spell)
I basically find the mage by accident when I was testing alternatives for the urchin slot, something I do a lot when testing decks, and its been performing superbly, I would recommend everyone at least give them a try.
I play 25 lands cuz the deck seems very mana hungry to me, and I don't really want to play mindstone.
I really think 4 BtQ is too much, 3 seems good to me
the land is sort of a mess, 7 colorless land havn't really been a problem so far (but drawing 2 urborg happens all the time).....
I really want 4 Deserts against faeries, but mutavaults are such good combos with the sudden spoiling.
No terror/Nameless inversion
I would love to fit in some Terrors, but I simply Don't have the slots, RDW is quite popular in my area so I really want 4 Tendrils MD, and all the other slot seems pretty good too!
Thanks for the help guys
Also how does this deck do against faeries, seems like it would do alright, but I havnt done enough testing to be sure.....
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
3 Dusk Urchins
1 Graveborn Muse (still looking to get last urchin)
4 Demigod of Revenge
1 Shriekmaw
Spells 18
4 Damnation
3 Sudden Death
3 Terror
4 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Profane Command
2 BTQ
3 Bitterblossom
Artifacts 2
2 Loxodon Warhammer
Land 24
1 Desert ( want more )
2 Mutavault
2 Urza's Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Leechridden Swamp
15 Swamp
3 Distress
3 Bottle Knomes
2 Epochrasite
4 Extirpate
3 Sudden Spoiling
No one has commented on mine yet either, is it realy that bad?
Anyway back on topic, how many Sudden Spoilings do people think are enough in the sideboard? My thoughts are 2 or perhaps even 3.
At the moment my sideboard is geared up against control and GW decks, I am not sure whether or not to have options for RDW as I haven't come across any as of yet at FNM however regionals is much bigger so you would think there'd be a few RDW decks about.
My sideboard:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Extirpate
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Deathmark
2 Sudden Spoiling
How is the f-bomb working in the sideboard?
My friend, who is only the best Magic player I know, keeps telling me that Tombstalker belongs in at worst the SB, in any MBC deck. I say no, but I can't think of any compelling reason why because his cost most of the time is 2BB. By the same token, he also believes that Vess should be a BtQ silver bullet (one bullet to fetch another). Good ideas?
Currently trying to discover the quickest way to get the opponent from 20 to 0.
My build in particular I try to avoid spending cards whenever possible.
If a Sudden Spoiling Combat trick (with BB tokens, desert, and mutavault) would work just as well as a Damnation, I use it instead. Thus saving my creatures (mabey a korlash, mabey a demigod). With draw that is so unreliable(urchins) its good to get used to milking the most of cards.
EDIT: about vess, if we were running diabolic tutor then it would not be a problem, ATM however the earliest you could tutor for her with BtQ is turn 5. She might be worth it as a test, but she will rarely get summoned with BtQ as you SHOULD be using that to get what you need earlier(urchins, BB, warhammer, sudden death, sudden spoiling, mentor, slaughter pact, another korlash for grandure) you name it, and there is a card 4cc or lower that can deal with it.
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
So i have been testing alot online (mws is not the best testing app, but all i have access to.) Someone asked to breakdown the Fae match. So lets see.
Usually this is how my matchs go. If on the play i try to land BB/epoch 2nd turn and/or dusk turn 3. They usually get out a bb or sprite on 2nd turn or w8 to counter with snag. 4th i usually do nuthing but swing in with dusk/tokens. At eot they usually flash in Scion, which i tenrals after it resolves.
Now its their 4th turn, nuthing on board, or bb with tokens. They pass, on my upkeep they try to Clique or just sit on a cryptic. Mindja this happens every GAME. Usually with Clique on stack i sudden death it (4 md) or tenrals it (4md). In bad situations i just get tapped out and take my turn. Since i can chump with bb, kill fae with deserts (4md) and Play instants (with split second) this match up is not hard unless they have god hand/draws.
Only times i have trouble is when they play 1st turn An Vision, 2nd turn BB, 3rd turn sprite/scion, 4th turn command/clique and i dont draw anything but 4cc+ spells. But after sb this match up is easy - 4 thougthseize, and terrors take care of most threats. So yeah good news - the "best deck in t2" is 50/50, 60/40 after board =)
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
4 Dusk Urchins
4 Epochrasite
3 Demigod of Revenge
Spells 17
4 Damnation
4 Sudden Death
2 Terror
3 Corrupt
2 Profane Command
2 Loxodon Warhammer
Enchantments 3
3 Bitterblossom
Land 25
4 Desert
2 Scrying Sheets
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
17 Snow-Covered Swamp
Thats my current list. And I´ve being trying and testing a lot and tonight I´ll try it in a round of test with friends.
Some Thoughts:
I might cut out BtQ for a Loxodon Warhammer. I cant find room for both. Im not a big fan of the artifact but I know who powerful it can be.
The problem with BtQ for me is: sometimes I cant get what I want, specially when I got turn3: 2 swamps and 1 desert.
I played silver bullets to find with it, but i realized that I´m not like this kind of player.
Profane Command is @#@#@#@#@@! Some time I want to have another. It kills, its reanimate, its a finisher and on turn 4 for a eventually discarted epochrasite is insane.
I played Mind Stones and Coldsteel heart and prove not to be worth it. Mind stone is better (mid-late game) even with snow-engine, that I like it and helps a to create a bigger korlarsh, filter ur draw and got a huge corrupt.
Corrupt: I´m a fan. PERIOD. Its not going anywhere. Its stays! Even if Im not played Urza´s block. On regz I can remember a play like this:
turn 2 coldsteel heart;
turn 3: Korlarsh. EOT Grandeur.
Turn 4: Swimg, for 5, Grim Haverst, to 7.
Turn 5: Swimg and Corrupt was game!
So I´m keeping 3 of them!
Side board is my concern. Can´t find something good enough:
Sideboard
4 Thoughtsize
4 Bottle Gnomes (must stay because of my environment)
2 Extirpate
3 Sudden Spoiling
2 Pithing Neddle
I was thinking play mind shatter again, because that is very good aggainst GW and RG Ramps.
Just not sure about Neddles. Suggestions? Liliana maybe? Or Stupor against faeries?
Thanks for using card tags... But deck tags are not only quicker, they look nicer too. Here are some instructions on how to use them. -CrAzEd MiKe
I would try:
-1 Demigod +1 BtQ
and depending on your meta (if you got some pro-black critters smashing your face or Shroud)
-1 Terror, 1 Sudden Death +2 Sudden Spoiling MD
And your sideboard could be
4 Distress (Thoughtseize optimally)
3 Bottle Gnomes
3 Extirpate
3 Random Removal / Meta-call
2 Stupor
4 Korlash Heir To Blackblade
4 Dusk Urchins
3 Epochrosite
3 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Terror
3 Bitterblossom
3 Beseech The Queen
3 Coldsteel Heart
2 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Profane Command
3 Desert
2 Urborg
2 Leechridden Swamp
4 Thoughtseize
3 Damnation
3 Sudden Spoil
3 Trip Noose
2 Imp's Mischief
Let me explain Trip noose...
Can't kill that indestructible creature? Tap it.
Ok cool, I explained it.
Not really, its 9 cards out of 60. I don't know if I'm going to get 2 of them each game. Plus they both depend on whats out there turn 2.... If its aggro I'm dropping Epochrsite... then turn 3 Coldsteel... I probably don't play BB til I know its needed or safe. So I don't think we need to drop anything here. Just play smart.
I see your point, but to make your curve more effective, I'd cut either the Epochs or coldsteels.
-3 Epochrosite
+3 Sudden Death
Man we really need a good 1 drop besides Thoughtseize.
Reprint Vendetta!! Best card for killing utility 1 and 2 drops ever.
In all seriousness, you are right, 1 drops are seriously lacking, especially with Thoughtseize not being all that great main anymore with all the aggro. I don't think there's any 1 drop I'd like to play over the cards we are already playing though.
Cause now you don't have to worry about instant speed removal since you added the extra Sudden Deaths paired with a couple of terrors and tendrils you have good enough instant removal package, play a couple of Shriekmaws paired with Profane Command is the icing on the cake:P
Well I've been throwing this build around in my head... competes with aggro better...
3 Nantuko Husk
4 Dusk Urchins
4 Muderous Redcap
4 Festering Goblin
4 Thoughtseize
4 Terror
3 Bitterblossom
3 Tendrils of Corruption
3 Makeshift .... Can't spell it
2 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Mutavault
2 Urborg
4 Demigod Of Revenge
2 Beseech The Queen
3 Profane Command
3 Stupor
3 Epochrosite
Thing is, its not aggro this deck has problems with (unless you REALLY have no idea how to play it, no offense meant to anyone ) , its the more controlling decks that can veto your answers/threats, thats what thoughtseize and extirpate are for. BB and spoiling are amazing in all games I have played.
EDIT: oh and LD decks......
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?