I like Haunting Echoes in the sideboard of this deck. It's only partially a meta-call, as there was a guy running Crypt Combo for awhile. However, I'm convinced that it's really detrimental to ANY deck that it hits (obviously), so I decided to keep it in.
I am also convinced on the effectiveness of Spreading Seas. I was play testing against Bloodquake last night and my opponent could do absolutely nothing.
I have trouble against Naya Lightsabre, though. I never seem to have the right answers at the right time. Maybe it's just been bad luck.
So, is Earthquake even good anymore? What decks is it good against?
Bad against:
Vamps; especially with Highborn
Jund; needs to be 4+ to hit Leech and hitting Thrinax is a pain.
RDW variants; creatures don't stick around long enough and it's too much pain
Junk; creatures are too large or they fly
Mirror/USA; clearly mediocre
Good against:
Eldrazi; not that great anymore/EQ will be worse with new variants that run that 4/5 and Omnath.
Isn't it better to drop the sweeper and run more spot removal/counters/bounce? Thoughts? Discuss?
So, is Earthquake even good anymore? What decks is it good against?
Bad against:
Vamps; especially with Highborn
Jund; needs to be 4+ to hit Leech and hitting Thrinax is a pain.
RDW variants; creatures don't stick around long enough and it's too much pain
Junk; creatures are too large or they fly
Mirror/USA; clearly mediocre
Good against:
Eldrazi; not that great anymore/EQ will be worse with new variants that run that 4/5 and Omnath.
Isn't it better to drop the sweeper and run more spot removal/counters/bounce? Thoughts? Discuss?
I've been wondering this also. But, I've never had the guts to say it. LOL. If Grixis needs a MD sweeper, could it use Pyroclasm instead? I can see Earthquake being better when you need to deal with a Planeswalker though.
I've been wondering this also. But, I've never had the guts to say it. LOL. If Grixis needs a MD sweeper, could it use Pyroclasm instead? I can see Earthquake being better when you need to deal with a Planeswalker though.
I use Quake for PWs, cleaning up little guys, and as a finisher. I've used it as a finisher more times than I can count. Earthquake belongs.
So, is Earthquake even good anymore? What decks is it good against?
Bad against:
Vamps; especially with Highborn
Jund; needs to be 4+ to hit Leech and hitting Thrinax is a pain.
RDW variants; creatures don't stick around long enough and it's too much pain
Junk; creatures are too large or they fly
Mirror/USA; clearly mediocre
Good against:
Eldrazi; not that great anymore/EQ will be worse with new variants that run that 4/5 and Omnath.
Isn't it better to drop the sweeper and run more spot removal/counters/bounce? Thoughts? Discuss?
It's not terrible against vamps. Keeps those Bloodghasts at bay early game (Pyroclasm works too). Spot removal for Nocturnus and Nighthawk. Clearly, it isn't the BEST but most builds don't run Pyroclasm anymore so an Earthquake for 2 removes Bloodghast, Hexmage, and Gatekeeper.
Earthquake is still good against White Weenie/Soldier. Day of Judgment is clearly better, though. I was having issues against a Summoning Trap deck. All fliers. What a pain in the arse.
I may drop the Earthquake count by 1 and add another Terminate.
Hey guys i just wanted to discuss the anti synergy that happens when you run cruel and only shroud creatures. It seems that It might be better if you ran sphinx of lost truths that way you can just shrug if they kill it because you know its coming back with cruel. It will also improve you vampire match up as at seven mana it can help recover from a late game sludge. here is my list its scarry and consistent and you get to win of 3 cruels wuite often which I love:
Originally Posted by badjuju
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
I know they just never die so you do not get the chance to
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Originally Posted by badjuju
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
I know they die to doj or combat I am sorry for not being clear. What I meant to say is that Cruel is at its best when you are playing a few creatures that often die and have a come into play abilities (ie broodmate from the days of 5 color control) With the sphinx of lost truth you get to really dig in you deck and find maybe the mana you need to cast cruel or cruel itself or maybe just a terminate if that is what is nescesarry
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Originally Posted by badjuju
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
The 10 point life swing and the 6 card deficit isn't enough? We're only running 6 or 7 creatures total, not recurring one from the yard is almost negligible, especially with the fact that they have shroud and "don't die".
Regardless, you'll inevitably lose a Snapper or something to bring back, but Cruel is at best when you make them take 5 and pitch their hand. The last thing you should be worrying about while they are recovering is a CIP effect on a creature, when you can just control the board until A) your already existing creatures get there, B) EQ, or C) you rip another Cruel.
I would rather run SoJI over SoLT. It's great that it draws three cards but I don't think draw power is an issue. I, personally, run 4 Treasure Hunt, 2 Mind Spring, and 3 Cruel Ultimatum, 1 Jace Mark II. Plus, 4 Spreading Seas in the sideboard. SoLT is kind of irrelevant now, in my opinion.
I understand your point Put You need to ask yourself why are you running Soji? Is it just because it is a good creature? I know it kind helps against Jund but with the shift toward vampire I am beginning to think that being able to recover from a mind sludge might be more relevant. granted we should have enough counters to stop one, but I just like having as much draw as possible. you guys are probably right however I am jsut trying to improve the vamp matchup since I suspect that is where the meta will be going for a bit.
On a diffrent note I have not liked the calcite snapper in testing He helps slow down really fast deck like boros but I jsut find I sometimes hope he was another counter or removal spell (hence he is cut from my list).
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Originally Posted by badjuju
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
I use Sphinx of Jwar Isle because the deck needs more than one win condition. If you're ONLY relying on Cruel Ultimatum to win the game, then the deck completely dies to Thought Hemorrhage. Yes, it can be countered, but that's not the point.
If you're using Sphinx of Lost Truths only for vampire matchups then his place is in the sideboard. Also, there are better options against vampires. Vampire Nighthawk and Malakir Bloodwitch are good sideboard material against vampires.
I always love seeing Calcite Snapper, personally. However, I've accepted that Snapper is one of those cards that is going to be widely debated for this deck, just like Treasure Hunt. Some people like it, some people do not. Both cards are great but some people would prefer something else.
My sideboard is kinda janky, I've never been all that good at determining what fits in them. Countersquall is obviously negate numbers 5 and 6, since I run into a lot of control decks in my meta. In a similar vein, seen a lot of our friend the turtle, and fleshbags are about the best answer I've come up with to them. My other thought was volcanic fallout, which would also provide a sweeper, but fleshbag is also a nice out to an opposing Jar Jar Sphinx, so I'm still on the fence.
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi." Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
There are more blue and black basics and less red basics. Red is only in Lightning Bolt, Terminate, Double Negative and Cruel Ultimatum. Weird versions play Comet Storm and Burst Lightning which up the red count which can change the choice.
In pure control builds, Scalding Tarn can and will often fetch a second blue source rather than a mountain, as blue, and often doubles of it, are required in a ton of spells. Jace2 is UU, Cruel is UU, Double Negative is UU, Calcite Snapper is UU, SoJI is UU, while at the same time you need BBB for Sorin and Cruel and BB for Nighthawk out the board. In order to facilitate these spells, the deck plays more U and B sources. R sources are far harder to come by, especally when people want to play Halimar Depths and Creeping Tar Pit. You want to hit UU early. Not to mention Scalding Tarn is often the only untapped land you have early. You most likely want it to be an Island, not a mountain.
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4 Crumbling Necropolis
3 Drowned Catacomb
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
3 Mountain
3 Swamp
Creatures
3 Calcite Snapper
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
2 Sorin Markov
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Spells
3 Negate
3 Essence Scatter
3 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Earthquake
4 Treasure Hunt
2 Mind Spring
3 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Pyroclasm
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
3 Deathmark
2 Swerve
4 Spreading Seas
3 Flashfreeze
1 Haunting Echoes
I like Haunting Echoes in the sideboard of this deck. It's only partially a meta-call, as there was a guy running Crypt Combo for awhile. However, I'm convinced that it's really detrimental to ANY deck that it hits (obviously), so I decided to keep it in.
I am also convinced on the effectiveness of Spreading Seas. I was play testing against Bloodquake last night and my opponent could do absolutely nothing.
I have trouble against Naya Lightsabre, though. I never seem to have the right answers at the right time. Maybe it's just been bad luck.
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
Bad against:
Vamps; especially with Highborn
Jund; needs to be 4+ to hit Leech and hitting Thrinax is a pain.
RDW variants; creatures don't stick around long enough and it's too much pain
Junk; creatures are too large or they fly
Mirror/USA; clearly mediocre
Good against:
Eldrazi; not that great anymore/EQ will be worse with new variants that run that 4/5 and Omnath.
Isn't it better to drop the sweeper and run more spot removal/counters/bounce? Thoughts? Discuss?
I've been wondering this also. But, I've never had the guts to say it. LOL. If Grixis needs a MD sweeper, could it use Pyroclasm instead? I can see Earthquake being better when you need to deal with a Planeswalker though.
I use Quake for PWs, cleaning up little guys, and as a finisher. I've used it as a finisher more times than I can count. Earthquake belongs.
It's not terrible against vamps. Keeps those Bloodghasts at bay early game (Pyroclasm works too). Spot removal for Nocturnus and Nighthawk. Clearly, it isn't the BEST but most builds don't run Pyroclasm anymore so an Earthquake for 2 removes Bloodghast, Hexmage, and Gatekeeper.
Earthquake is still good against White Weenie/Soldier. Day of Judgment is clearly better, though. I was having issues against a Summoning Trap deck. All fliers. What a pain in the arse.
I may drop the Earthquake count by 1 and add another Terminate.
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Dragon Skull summit
2 Creeping Tar pits
4 scalding tarn
4 mountain
4 island
2 swamp
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
2 essence Scatter
2 negate
2 flash freeze
4 treasure hunt
4 double negative
3 jace the mind sculptor
3 Sphinx of Lost truth
2 Sorin Markov
4 Cruel Ultimatum (I admit 4 might be sub optimal I just love casting it )
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Malikar Bloodwhich
4 Earthquake
2 negate
2 flash freeze
Modern - Green & Taxes:symw::symg:
Standard - Illusions:symu::symb:
Regardless, you'll inevitably lose a Snapper or something to bring back, but Cruel is at best when you make them take 5 and pitch their hand. The last thing you should be worrying about while they are recovering is a CIP effect on a creature, when you can just control the board until A) your already existing creatures get there, B) EQ, or C) you rip another Cruel.
Standard
Turboland
RDW
Extended-Come October
Faeries
BW Tokens
Legacy
Zoo
Dredge
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
On a diffrent note I have not liked the calcite snapper in testing He helps slow down really fast deck like boros but I jsut find I sometimes hope he was another counter or removal spell (hence he is cut from my list).
If you're using Sphinx of Lost Truths only for vampire matchups then his place is in the sideboard. Also, there are better options against vampires. Vampire Nighthawk and Malakir Bloodwitch are good sideboard material against vampires.
I always love seeing Calcite Snapper, personally. However, I've accepted that Snapper is one of those cards that is going to be widely debated for this deck, just like Treasure Hunt. Some people like it, some people do not. Both cards are great but some people would prefer something else.
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
4x Crumbling Necropolis
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Dragonskull Summit
2x Drowned Catacomb
2x Creeping Tarpit
2x Halimar Depths
3x Mountain
2x Island
4x Swamp
Creatures/Plainswalkers:
2x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
3x Jace, the Mindsculptor
1x Sorin Markov
3x Cruel Ultimatum
3x Treasure Hunt
2x Mysteries of the Deep
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Burst Lightning
2x Comet Storm
4x Terminate
3x Double Negative
3x Negate
1x Negate
2x Countersquall
1x Double Negative
2x Essence Scatter
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Fleshbag Marauder
2x Thought Hemorrhage
This is the list I've been running lately, and had some decent success with. Some comments on card choices:
Comet Storm: This one is completely in testing, but so far I've never been disappointed with it.
Creeping Tarpit: Seems like such a great idea, but so far has been win more, or another CIPT land
Mysteries of the Deep/Treasure Hunt: I'm liking Mysteries a lot more than the hunt. Hunt is too inconsistant for what I want in this deck (although I like it in my Esper control deck). I'm considering dropping the halimar depths for 2 Terramorphic Expanse and trading in the hunt for another mysteries and a couple of divination or courier's capsule
My sideboard is kinda janky, I've never been all that good at determining what fits in them. Countersquall is obviously negate numbers 5 and 6, since I run into a lot of control decks in my meta. In a similar vein, seen a lot of our friend the turtle, and fleshbags are about the best answer I've come up with to them. My other thought was volcanic fallout, which would also provide a sweeper, but fleshbag is also a nice out to an opposing Jar Jar Sphinx, so I'm still on the fence.
Thoughts?
Crumbling Necropolis. Is this a trick question?
Dragonskull Summit?
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"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi."
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If you're trying to lock out Cruel, why not hit the land that gives all 3 colors?
No? Scalding tarn?
The manabase is generally even across colors anyway.
So are people playing edges playing them like a sorcery? (drop then only on the turn they want to use them?)
Generally not worried, as our carddraw should be able to even out the tempo lost with them, and if we play spreading seas, that's interesting too...
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UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
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There are more blue and black basics and less red basics. Red is only in Lightning Bolt, Terminate, Double Negative and Cruel Ultimatum. Weird versions play Comet Storm and Burst Lightning which up the red count which can change the choice.
In pure control builds, Scalding Tarn can and will often fetch a second blue source rather than a mountain, as blue, and often doubles of it, are required in a ton of spells. Jace2 is UU, Cruel is UU, Double Negative is UU, Calcite Snapper is UU, SoJI is UU, while at the same time you need BBB for Sorin and Cruel and BB for Nighthawk out the board. In order to facilitate these spells, the deck plays more U and B sources. R sources are far harder to come by, especally when people want to play Halimar Depths and Creeping Tar Pit. You want to hit UU early. Not to mention Scalding Tarn is often the only untapped land you have early. You most likely want it to be an Island, not a mountain.