x4 Cruels? I'm guessing since you run 4 See Beyonds, you're comfortable with this move? Seems like it could be ok with the See Beyonds...
Some people are running a nicol bolas and 3 cruels. I think it seems like too much mana cost in the deck. I think its either 3 cruels or 2 cruels and nicol. This is assuming nicol is even worth it. I have him in just to playtest, which I havent done so yet.
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T2:symu::symb::symr: Grixis Control :symu::symb::symr:
I hate the fact that grixis is moving towards, grixis Tap out, and not Grixis Control. And it saddens me. I am trully happy when i can get an earthquake off, and then seal the game with cancel's in hand.
Altough it might be a bit better to have something like toknawa's list. I tried going down to 3-4 counterspells, but i prefer 7-8 hard counters and no 3 cost spell's.
well i just ran my list through the gauntlet of Jund, UW, UWR, Vampires, naya boss and allies, RDW, and WW.
This deck is so ridiculously good i cant even see straight.
See the above post, it is true rofl.
Now onto some business. for those of you cutting Jace2.0, I can understand why you want to, i mean i 4 mana brainstorm and fog isn't bad, but sin't overly amazing. Now i run four jaces at the moment in order to deffinately have one stay alive, and everytime i play him he seems just to good to pass up. if they hit him wonderful, i got a brainstorm and an angelsong, if they don't for some god awful reason, i win. it feels to me that unless you are playing jund (which they can pulse the damn guy) everytime I get to untap with him i REALLY tend to win. i think he is just to bonkers not to run even only as a one or two of. he is just so damn solid all over. like one game against jund they turn two leech, i shot it at the end of my turn two, he played thnax and i passed, he bloodbraided into blightning and i Double negative then played jace bouncing his thrinax, and he just played siege gang, sweet i EQ for two and proceed to win the game. i feel like bolt or terminate with Double and jace in hand you just win. i can barely think of any deck that can really beat that save maybe UW.
also do you guys really think Consuming Vapors or Consume the meek is bad? i mean at worst consume is a 5mana kill man land against control, and often it is much more than that. i can see Vapore being really lackluster against control decks, but it still hits wall of omens and elspeth tokens, which is something. i think the two cards are just to good against every other deck in the format to not be played. even against jund vapors is great. it hits a stag awesome. if it hits anything else that isn't 1/1 tokens it is even better. 2 for 1 removal that gains life seems pretty good right now.
In my testing the only deck that really gave me trouble was UW with counters, and the occasional nut draw jund deck. i feel this deck will; soon break through tier 2 status if someone would just pick it up lol.
and is everyone taking liliana out? i haven't yet but have been meaning to. oh and could anyone post there board for me here is mine
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
well i just ran my list through the gauntlet of Jund, UW, UWR, Vampires, naya boss and allies, RDW, and WW.
This deck is so ridiculously good i cant even see straight.
See the above post, it is true rofl.
Now onto some business. for those of you cutting Jace2.0, I can understand why you want to, i mean i 4 mana brainstorm and fog isn't bad, but sin't overly amazing. Now i run four jaces at the moment in order to deffinately have one stay alive, and everytime i play him he seems just to good to pass up. if they hit him wonderful, i got a brainstorm and an angelsong, if they don't for some god awful reason, i win. it feels to me that unless you are playing jund (which they can pulse the damn guy) everytime I get to untap with him i REALLY tend to win. i think he is just to bonkers not to run even only as a one or two of. he is just so damn solid all over. like one game against jund they turn two leech, i shot it at the end of my turn two, he played thnax and i passed, he bloodbraided into blightning and i Double negative then played jace bouncing his thrinax, and he just played siege gang, sweet i EQ for two and proceed to win the game. i feel like bolt or terminate with Double and jace in hand you just win. i can barely think of any deck that can really beat that save maybe UW.
also do you guys really think Consuming Vapors or Consume the meek is bad? i mean at worst consume is a 5mana kill man land against control, and often it is much more than that. i can see Vapore being really lackluster against control decks, but it still hits wall of omens and elspeth tokens, which is something. i think the two cards are just to good against every other deck in the format to not be played. even against jund vapors is great. it hits a stag awesome. if it hits anything else that isn't 1/1 tokens it is even better. 2 for 1 removal that gains life seems pretty good right now.
In my testing the only deck that really gave me trouble was UW with counters, and the occasional nut draw jund deck. i feel this deck will; soon break through tier 2 status if someone would just pick it up lol.
and is everyone taking liliana out? i haven't yet but have been meaning to. oh and could anyone post there board for me here is mine
Care to post your deck, if you haven't already? Honestly, I think grixis is great and can make it. When i perform well, I smoke all opponents. The only "real" reason I lose is because I am relatively new to standard, and I am still learning what is a threat and what is not - when to counter, when not to, etc - based on the cards circulating the meta.
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T2:symu::symb::symr: Grixis Control :symu::symb::symr:
well i just ran my list through the gauntlet of Jund, UW, UWR, Vampires, naya boss and allies, RDW, and WW.
This deck is so ridiculously good i cant even see straight.
See the above post, it is true rofl.
Now onto some business. for those of you cutting Jace2.0, I can understand why you want to, i mean i 4 mana brainstorm and fog isn't bad, but sin't overly amazing. Now i run four jaces at the moment in order to deffinately have one stay alive, and everytime i play him he seems just to good to pass up. if they hit him wonderful, i got a brainstorm and an angelsong, if they don't for some god awful reason, i win. it feels to me that unless you are playing jund (which they can pulse the damn guy) everytime I get to untap with him i REALLY tend to win. i think he is just to bonkers not to run even only as a one or two of. he is just so damn solid all over. like one game against jund they turn two leech, i shot it at the end of my turn two, he played thnax and i passed, he bloodbraided into blightning and i Double negative then played jace bouncing his thrinax, and he just played siege gang, sweet i EQ for two and proceed to win the game. i feel like bolt or terminate with Double and jace in hand you just win. i can barely think of any deck that can really beat that save maybe UW.
also do you guys really think Consuming Vapors or Consume the meek is bad? i mean at worst consume is a 5mana kill man land against control, and often it is much more than that. i can see Vapore being really lackluster against control decks, but it still hits wall of omens and elspeth tokens, which is something. i think the two cards are just to good against every other deck in the format to not be played. even against jund vapors is great. it hits a stag awesome. if it hits anything else that isn't 1/1 tokens it is even better. 2 for 1 removal that gains life seems pretty good right now.
In my testing the only deck that really gave me trouble was UW with counters, and the occasional nut draw jund deck. i feel this deck will; soon break through tier 2 status if someone would just pick it up lol.
and is everyone taking liliana out? i haven't yet but have been meaning to. oh and could anyone post there board for me here is mine
Really glad to hear you're still having awesome results with the deck! Would you mind throwing up your current list?
I've been running Consuming Vapors as a 3 of lately and its been working really great for me. I haven't switched EQ to Consume the Meek yet and I'm not sure if I will yet or not
My sideboard is the same as yours except I'm running 4 Duress instead of Goblin Ruinblaster.
I'm still iffy on Consume the Meek. It's killer in some matchups, but not so much in others. I like it for Jund so it's currently main board two of, but I take them out against control.
Consuming Vapors on the other hand has been a beast for me. Vapors plus turtles pretty well wrecks control matchups, and against aggro it's almost always a two for one. The life gain has been significant by both buying time and enabling larger earthquakes.
So i've been testing with Tokwana's build, and it feels generally solid. My only criticism with it is that it seems to suffer from the same problems as turboramp decks, in that on occasion it'll draw into too much draw spells when you need removal, too much removal when you need win conditions, too much spot-kill when you need a sweeper. Fortunately, unlike those decks, it has the tools to keep you alive until the draws of your deck naturally correct themselves. My current build is largely inspired by Tokwana's latest, with my own personal twists to reflect my meta reqirements. Voila:
Comet Storm: Win-con that just happen to function secondarily as a planeswalker killer/ late-gate resent button.
Sorin Markov: Largely untested in-game, but many people I respect (including some in this forum) tell me it's a solid inclusion. Time and testing will tell.
Into the Roil: More card filtering that happens to reset walkers going ultimate, hit Luminarch Ascension, and just utterly r@pe modern incarnations of RDW (resetting Kargan Dragonlords, Kiln Fiends, and outright killling unearthers and Devastating Summons tokens).
All is Dust: An out to Spreading Seas and its ilk, a Bant killer, and a Planeswalker sweeper. Modern control decks really hate this card.
Questionable Choices:
- No Consuming Vapors: Good against Bant, but pretty poor against everything else. Like Tokwana, I wanted this card to be good, but for the most part it has just not been able to perform. I may wish to find room in the 'board for a couple copies in the future, as I hear Bant is still pretty popular. But with space at such a premium, sacrifices must be made, and this is one of the easier ones.
- 3 Necropolis: Hitting colors has never been an issue for me. Unless they have the ability to turn sideways for 3 damage+, I want my lands entering untapped.
- Goblin Ruinblaster: It's there to kill manlands. What I haven't decided yet is if this role is better fulfilled by Doom Blade. Input on this would be greatly appreciated.
We are the middle children of history. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War is a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
I love seeing so many people are trying new things with Grixis. All the above decks seem to be really good, but I can't see myself changing anything with Grixis deck because I'm doing surprisingly well with it. Even though I screw up sometimes, the only real times I lose is when I'm stuck with 2 lands and my opponent has like 5 or 6. It's probably because my deck runs too little draw spells, but I can't seem to figure out what to take out to add See Beyond, which I think is one of the best draw spells in the format right now. This is my build as of now:
@Tokwana: Deck looks great, but there's alot of cards that require 2 of the same color. Comet Storm requires 2 red, Consume the Meek requires 2 black, Mind Spring requires 2 blue, Double Negative requires 2 blue and 1 red, which isn't really hard for us to get with our dual lands and trilands, but with so many people playing with tectonic edges and spreading seas, it can really hinder us and restrain us from playing our spells and creatures.
Card Choices:
Calcite Snapper: Still one of the best walls we can have in Grixis. Whenever I play him against a aggro/mid range deck, it really slows them down until I have enough mana to cruel them. He's also a great blocker for Jace. Not only does he not die to Sprouting Thrinax, but also Bloodbraid Elf, Wild Nacatl, Ranger of Eos, Knight of White Orchid (against white decks), Rhox War Monk, and a few others I can't think of.
Malakir Bloodwitch: Devastating creature against anyone who's playing with white. Knight of the Reliquary, Baneslayer Angel, Celestial Colonnade, Stirring Wildwood, and Rhox War Monk can't do anything against this chick, and you can trade with a Broodmate or it's token. It's also a great card against Vampires.
Burst Lightning: Just another burn spell for early creatures or a win-con for late game damage. Can also hit planeswalkers.
Inquisition of Kozilek: Probably the best card I have in the deck. Not only does it let you see your opponent's hand, so you can plan out your strategies and setup your board, but you can also discard a card that cost 3 or less. It hits knights, thranixes, nighthawks, ruinblasters (I love it when I discard this), martial coup (another annoying card I hate seeing), mind spring, spreading seas, stoneforge, counters, and the list goes on.
Earthquake: Another win-con other than Cruel after doing heavy damage with the Calcite Snapper and Creeping Tar Pit. It can also hit planeswalkers and is a board sweeper.
Treasure Hunt: Everytime I use Treasure Hunt, I always get at least 2 or 3 lands with an extra card. Great card to combo with Jace and Halimar Depths, and I don't really use it until late game because I usually have Jace or other stuff out to prolong the game until I cruel.
Questionable Choices:
Consuming Vapors: Used it a few times and it was too slow for me. Most of the people at my store play with aggro decks and just sac their Thranixes, Nobles, or tokens and it really does nothing for me. It's not a great card against fast aggro decks, but good against mythic bant and tap-out u/w control.
Demolish: Thinking of adding at least 1 or 2 in my SB for land destruction or something to destroy Chalices, Basilisk Collars, and Behemoth Sledge.
1 Halimar Depths: Helps me when I need it and doesn't slow me down at all. It's great with Jace and Treasure Hunt, but could only fit one in the deck because my mana base is really tight.
I ended up taking out the Bolas since it really was just a pet card and he did nothing to a board where I was losing. In retrospect, I would have liked having him in there because I played against only 1 matchup where he would have been a bad draw.
Taking out ITR was awkward at first but with the added card draw + counters, it was well worth it. That being said, I wish I had them since my only game losses were to turn 2 Luminarch Ascensions that I could not race with my man lands. I probably win the tournament, instead of finishing second, if I had those extra outs to Luminarch Ascensions. I also wish I had them against enemy Gideon Jura's
The sideboard was good outside of the flashfreezes. Jund is falling out of favor and it performed VERY poorly at the tournament. Everyone that played blue packed the 4 of Spreading Seas and Jund got flattened. Flashfreeze is a dead card against Polymorph as it only really counters Garruk (which is alright but pretty narrow). It's decent against Summoning trap as it gets their traps and Avenger's and Walls, but still is pretty narrow. I don't know what I'd play... maybe duress or some way to deal with Planeswalkers
As I expected, almost half the field was some form of Polymorph or Summoning Trap. The former of which is a bye since they actually do nothing to affect your game plan. I gained 15 life off my Consuming Vapors multiple times during the tournament. Also won quite a few sideboarded games on the back of turn 5 Telemin Performance for Emrakul.
The wall underperformed for me as well. I was hoping it would be Cruel #4 but often times I found myself wishing it were either Jace 4 or Sorin 2 or anything else that was less than a 4 of. Never got to Cruel with it in play and then Jace it back to my hand. Felt like a random win more card.
I played in my 9 rounds of magic:
1 Bye (how sweet to get that random round 1 bye!)
3 U/W Control (various forms)
1 Jund
3 Polymorph
1 Summoning Trap
The Polymorph matchup is pretty easy as you are just a better control deck than they are. They have to combo off eventually to beat you and you just counter their stuff while playing lands and attacking with them.
Summoning Trap is a little harder as you can't just Telemin's them outta sideboarded games but in the end, it's a good matchup. They don't do anything really relevant and if you know to kill the mana producing walls, you are in good shape.
Jund: this deck was built to crush that deck... nuff said.
U/W Control: do they, or do they not get out a quick Gideon that you can't attack into with your man lands. Sideboarded games suck since they have Ascension and you don't really have a way to deal with it. This matchup needs work as Game 1 is usually a one sided blowout in your favor, but the sideboarded games are a mess.
Let me know what you guys think... Not having real outs to Ascension is a pain and the sideboard really needs to be where you get to attack them.
This sideboard used with my grixis control deck can change it into an all out agro deck, which catches the opponent off guard enough to generally win. More information about the deck can be found here, http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=240027
shoot me a pm or leave a message on that thread if you want any help playing with a more aggressive sideboard like that. You have to change your main deck a little bit to deal with it, but it's doable and generally can crush other decks game 2 because they sideboard for the control matchup.
Let me know what you guys think... Not having real outs to Ascension is a pain and the sideboard really needs to be where you get to attack them.
A little lost in translation there. I meant a way to attack Ascensions. I agree that an aggro plan is one of them but it leaves you open to losing your good sideboard matches against other decks. I'm still looking though.
I'm the same, but it comes in handy sometimes. Only costs 1 and you get to turnoff Luminarch. You could use Vampire Hexmage, but that's just a temporary solution. Once they get another one, you're pretty much screwed lol.
Yea.. if I had an answer to that card, I win the tournament for sure. It's pretty sad losing to just one card but sometimes your deck is so good vs. the field that you lose against that one thing. Not to say that Ascension is at all fringe... I just didn't think about it since I'm not a fan of that card by any means.
I'm wondering whether Mneumonic Wall has been considered? Mid-game it gets back removal/draw when needed, then if it dies, you snatch it back with Cruel Ultimatum and get back Cruel Ultimatum the next turn? Also, I've always wondered about running Pyromancer's Ascension as an alternate finisher?
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Temporarily retired from the game
Thanks a bunch to Rivenor from Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the awesome sigpic!
The wall is a fine addition but it's value goes down the more you play. It's not a very good draw at most times in the game. The dream scenario is to Cruel into one while Jace is in play, but really at that point you are winning anyway. In my 9 matches this weekend, I resolved him twice. Once to get back Cruel and the other time to get back a Double Negative. All the other times, I shuffled it back into my deck with See Beyond or Jace + fetch.
Pyromancer's is a pretty sweet card, but I would have to drastically change to deck to play with it. I toyed with the idea of just making a Pyromancer deck but in the end I found it to be way to inconsistent. You really want to be taking advantage of cards like Time Warp etc if you are playing Ascensions.
Pyromancer Ascension is fun, but it's not that great right now. I've been playing it for months up until last week. I think I'm giving up on it until after Shards of Alara rotates.
I haven't actually tested this particular build yet. I was running Into the Roil over Blightning before, so I could bounce a planeswalker when he or she was about to take lethal, but Blightning is just so damn brutal.
I went with See Beyond over Ponder because I feel it's more powerful here, allowing me to hide away Sorin/Cruel/Bolas if I draw them early game.
I'm not running any mass removal in the main at the moment. I've only played maybe two games where I've actually needed, so I only have it in the sideboard.
The one-of Rite of Replication is pretty fun. Early on, I can get a Sprouting Thrinax to trade with theirs. Mid-game, I get Broodmates. Late-game, I kick it on Mnemonic Wall.
[insert text about how good Cruel is blah blah blah]
Liliana's -2 and Jace's +0 are retarded together. On a creature-heavy field, Chandra and Sorin eat critters. On an empty field, Sorin's -3 and Chandra's -8 ends the game. Bolas just ends the game, period.
Pithing Needle also helps against the Planeswalker Control decks that seem to be on the rise. It's not a great answer to them either, but it's easily splashable and fits many situations at this point.
I like Pithing Needle largely because of its flexibility. It gives you the ability to completely shut down many threats in an opponents deck for a single mana. There aren't a tremendous number of ways to get rid of it, either; the most notable one, of course, being O-Ring.
Given that many of our decks main-deck multiple solutions to Planeswalkers, I tend to prefer using the Needle to remove other threats. Dropping a Needle on Tectonic Edge against U/W control within the first three turns has really helped keep my mana-base alive. It's also not so significant a threat that they feel the need to drop an O-Ring on it. If they do... well, that's an O-Ring that won't be taking out Jace.
I'm using a new list and with the new meta game emergences (Faster Decks) I feel like for now it is time to hang our hat with the counters. Instead I've implemented our old friend cascade... You remember him, right? that was the guy who gives crazy card advantage. Don't misunderstand. Cascade is not a gimmick in this build. I have a 60% to 70% jund match up, and that was before the implementing of Kathari Remnant which I only had time for one game against jund post kath rem and I toyed with jund. Naya Allies, I have a decent match up against them, especially post board. I'll I need is to see a couple of bolts/terminates until I get a Consume the meek. Also I tested against a few eldrazi token decks that are getting consistent turn 5 wins on modo and have a high win percentage there. Anyway, here's the list.
Don't ask me what the purpose of battle is. Battle doesn't need a purpose. The battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns, so don't ask why I fight.
Some people are running a nicol bolas and 3 cruels. I think it seems like too much mana cost in the deck. I think its either 3 cruels or 2 cruels and nicol. This is assuming nicol is even worth it. I have him in just to playtest, which I havent done so yet.
Altough it might be a bit better to have something like toknawa's list. I tried going down to 3-4 counterspells, but i prefer 7-8 hard counters and no 3 cost spell's.
This deck is so ridiculously good i cant even see straight.
See the above post, it is true rofl.
Now onto some business. for those of you cutting Jace2.0, I can understand why you want to, i mean i 4 mana brainstorm and fog isn't bad, but sin't overly amazing. Now i run four jaces at the moment in order to deffinately have one stay alive, and everytime i play him he seems just to good to pass up. if they hit him wonderful, i got a brainstorm and an angelsong, if they don't for some god awful reason, i win. it feels to me that unless you are playing jund (which they can pulse the damn guy) everytime I get to untap with him i REALLY tend to win. i think he is just to bonkers not to run even only as a one or two of. he is just so damn solid all over. like one game against jund they turn two leech, i shot it at the end of my turn two, he played thnax and i passed, he bloodbraided into blightning and i Double negative then played jace bouncing his thrinax, and he just played siege gang, sweet i EQ for two and proceed to win the game. i feel like bolt or terminate with Double and jace in hand you just win. i can barely think of any deck that can really beat that save maybe UW.
also do you guys really think Consuming Vapors or Consume the meek is bad? i mean at worst consume is a 5mana kill man land against control, and often it is much more than that. i can see Vapore being really lackluster against control decks, but it still hits wall of omens and elspeth tokens, which is something. i think the two cards are just to good against every other deck in the format to not be played. even against jund vapors is great. it hits a stag awesome. if it hits anything else that isn't 1/1 tokens it is even better. 2 for 1 removal that gains life seems pretty good right now.
In my testing the only deck that really gave me trouble was UW with counters, and the occasional nut draw jund deck. i feel this deck will; soon break through tier 2 status if someone would just pick it up lol.
and is everyone taking liliana out? i haven't yet but have been meaning to. oh and could anyone post there board for me here is mine
4 Flashfreeze
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
2 Negate
2 Pithing Needle
:symb:Vampires:symb:
:symg:Eldrazi Ramp:symg:
:symw::symu:Control:symu::symw:
:symr:Pure Flame Quest:symr:
:symw:Holy Relic Quest:symw:
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
Care to post your deck, if you haven't already? Honestly, I think grixis is great and can make it. When i perform well, I smoke all opponents. The only "real" reason I lose is because I am relatively new to standard, and I am still learning what is a threat and what is not - when to counter, when not to, etc - based on the cards circulating the meta.
Really glad to hear you're still having awesome results with the deck! Would you mind throwing up your current list?
I've been running Consuming Vapors as a 3 of lately and its been working really great for me. I haven't switched EQ to Consume the Meek yet and I'm not sure if I will yet or not
My sideboard is the same as yours except I'm running 4 Duress instead of Goblin Ruinblaster.
UBRGrixis Control
Consuming Vapors on the other hand has been a beast for me. Vapors plus turtles pretty well wrecks control matchups, and against aggro it's almost always a two for one. The life gain has been significant by both buying time and enabling larger earthquakes.
3 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Comet Storm
1 Sorin Markov
3 Double Negative
2 Negate
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
2 Consume the Meek
2 Into the Roil
4 Spreading Seas
3 See Beyond
2 Divination
3 Mountain
3 Swamp
3 Crumbling Necropolis
3 Drowned Catacomb
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Duress
4 Flashfreeze
3 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 All is Dust
1 Into the Roil
1 Negate
1 Terminate
Card choices:
Comet Storm: Win-con that just happen to function secondarily as a planeswalker killer/ late-gate resent button.
Sorin Markov: Largely untested in-game, but many people I respect (including some in this forum) tell me it's a solid inclusion. Time and testing will tell.
Into the Roil: More card filtering that happens to reset walkers going ultimate, hit Luminarch Ascension, and just utterly r@pe modern incarnations of RDW (resetting Kargan Dragonlords, Kiln Fiends, and outright killling unearthers and Devastating Summons tokens).
All is Dust: An out to Spreading Seas and its ilk, a Bant killer, and a Planeswalker sweeper. Modern control decks really hate this card.
Questionable Choices:
- No Consuming Vapors: Good against Bant, but pretty poor against everything else. Like Tokwana, I wanted this card to be good, but for the most part it has just not been able to perform. I may wish to find room in the 'board for a couple copies in the future, as I hear Bant is still pretty popular. But with space at such a premium, sacrifices must be made, and this is one of the easier ones.
- 3 Necropolis: Hitting colors has never been an issue for me. Unless they have the ability to turn sideways for 3 damage+, I want my lands entering untapped.
- Goblin Ruinblaster: It's there to kill manlands. What I haven't decided yet is if this role is better fulfilled by Doom Blade. Input on this would be greatly appreciated.
Constructive criticism welcome as always.
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Spreading Seas
4 See Beyond
3 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Double Negative
3 Consuming Vapors
2 Earthquake
2 Consume the Meek
1 Sorin Markov
4 Crumbling Necropolis
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Dragonskull Summit
3 Island
3 Mountain
2 Creeping Tarpit
2 Swamp
what do you guys think? any advice on what to change?
:symb:Vampires:symb:
:symg:Eldrazi Ramp:symg:
:symw::symu:Control:symu::symw:
:symr:Pure Flame Quest:symr:
:symw:Holy Relic Quest:symw:
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
I would board the 2 CtM and add in 1x Nicol and 1 more Sorin. That pretty much how I've been running it and its working sweetly
3 Crumbling Necropolis
3 Dragonskull Summit
3 Drowned Catacomb
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Swamp
2 Island
2 Mountain
1 Halimar Depths
3 Creeping Tarpit
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
Creatures: 8
4 Calcite Snapper
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Burst Lightning
2 Double Negative
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
Sorceries: 10
3 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Earthquake
2 Treasure Hunt
Enchantments: 4
4 Spreading Seas
Planeswalkers: 2
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Terminate
1 Double Negative
2 Cancel
1 Consume the Meek
2 Deathmark
3 Duress
3 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Earthquake
1 Pithing Needle
@Tokwana: Deck looks great, but there's alot of cards that require 2 of the same color. Comet Storm requires 2 red, Consume the Meek requires 2 black, Mind Spring requires 2 blue, Double Negative requires 2 blue and 1 red, which isn't really hard for us to get with our dual lands and trilands, but with so many people playing with tectonic edges and spreading seas, it can really hinder us and restrain us from playing our spells and creatures.
Card Choices:
Calcite Snapper: Still one of the best walls we can have in Grixis. Whenever I play him against a aggro/mid range deck, it really slows them down until I have enough mana to cruel them. He's also a great blocker for Jace. Not only does he not die to Sprouting Thrinax, but also Bloodbraid Elf, Wild Nacatl, Ranger of Eos, Knight of White Orchid (against white decks), Rhox War Monk, and a few others I can't think of.
Malakir Bloodwitch: Devastating creature against anyone who's playing with white. Knight of the Reliquary, Baneslayer Angel, Celestial Colonnade, Stirring Wildwood, and Rhox War Monk can't do anything against this chick, and you can trade with a Broodmate or it's token. It's also a great card against Vampires.
Burst Lightning: Just another burn spell for early creatures or a win-con for late game damage. Can also hit planeswalkers.
Inquisition of Kozilek: Probably the best card I have in the deck. Not only does it let you see your opponent's hand, so you can plan out your strategies and setup your board, but you can also discard a card that cost 3 or less. It hits knights, thranixes, nighthawks, ruinblasters (I love it when I discard this), martial coup (another annoying card I hate seeing), mind spring, spreading seas, stoneforge, counters, and the list goes on.
Earthquake: Another win-con other than Cruel after doing heavy damage with the Calcite Snapper and Creeping Tar Pit. It can also hit planeswalkers and is a board sweeper.
Treasure Hunt: Everytime I use Treasure Hunt, I always get at least 2 or 3 lands with an extra card. Great card to combo with Jace and Halimar Depths, and I don't really use it until late game because I usually have Jace or other stuff out to prolong the game until I cruel.
Questionable Choices:
Consuming Vapors: Used it a few times and it was too slow for me. Most of the people at my store play with aggro decks and just sac their Thranixes, Nobles, or tokens and it really does nothing for me. It's not a great card against fast aggro decks, but good against mythic bant and tap-out u/w control.
Demolish: Thinking of adding at least 1 or 2 in my SB for land destruction or something to destroy Chalices, Basilisk Collars, and Behemoth Sledge.
1 Halimar Depths: Helps me when I need it and doesn't slow me down at all. It's great with Jace and Treasure Hunt, but could only fit one in the deck because my mana base is really tight.
3 Consuming Vapors
3 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Double Negative
3 See Beyond
2 Negate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Spreading Seas
3 Terminate
2 Consume the Meek
1 Earthquake
Planeswalkers - 4
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sorin Markov
1 Mnemonic Wall
Manabase - 27
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Crumbling Necropolis
4 Dragonskull Summit
3 Drowned Catacomb
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
3 Mountain
3 Swamp
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 All is Dust
1 Liliana Vess
1 Earthquake
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
2 Telemin Performance
3 Flashfreeze
2 Negate
3 Goblin Ruinblaster
I ended up taking out the Bolas since it really was just a pet card and he did nothing to a board where I was losing. In retrospect, I would have liked having him in there because I played against only 1 matchup where he would have been a bad draw.
Taking out ITR was awkward at first but with the added card draw + counters, it was well worth it. That being said, I wish I had them since my only game losses were to turn 2 Luminarch Ascensions that I could not race with my man lands. I probably win the tournament, instead of finishing second, if I had those extra outs to Luminarch Ascensions. I also wish I had them against enemy Gideon Jura's
The sideboard was good outside of the flashfreezes. Jund is falling out of favor and it performed VERY poorly at the tournament. Everyone that played blue packed the 4 of Spreading Seas and Jund got flattened. Flashfreeze is a dead card against Polymorph as it only really counters Garruk (which is alright but pretty narrow). It's decent against Summoning trap as it gets their traps and Avenger's and Walls, but still is pretty narrow. I don't know what I'd play... maybe duress or some way to deal with Planeswalkers
As I expected, almost half the field was some form of Polymorph or Summoning Trap. The former of which is a bye since they actually do nothing to affect your game plan. I gained 15 life off my Consuming Vapors multiple times during the tournament. Also won quite a few sideboarded games on the back of turn 5 Telemin Performance for Emrakul.
The wall underperformed for me as well. I was hoping it would be Cruel #4 but often times I found myself wishing it were either Jace 4 or Sorin 2 or anything else that was less than a 4 of. Never got to Cruel with it in play and then Jace it back to my hand. Felt like a random win more card.
I played in my 9 rounds of magic:
1 Bye (how sweet to get that random round 1 bye!)
3 U/W Control (various forms)
1 Jund
3 Polymorph
1 Summoning Trap
The Polymorph matchup is pretty easy as you are just a better control deck than they are. They have to combo off eventually to beat you and you just counter their stuff while playing lands and attacking with them.
Summoning Trap is a little harder as you can't just Telemin's them outta sideboarded games but in the end, it's a good matchup. They don't do anything really relevant and if you know to kill the mana producing walls, you are in good shape.
Jund: this deck was built to crush that deck... nuff said.
U/W Control: do they, or do they not get out a quick Gideon that you can't attack into with your man lands. Sideboarded games suck since they have Ascension and you don't really have a way to deal with it. This matchup needs work as Game 1 is usually a one sided blowout in your favor, but the sideboarded games are a mess.
Let me know what you guys think... Not having real outs to Ascension is a pain and the sideboard really needs to be where you get to attack them.
I really like your decklist, but for sideboarding if you want to be where you can attack them you could try something like this
3 sedraxis specter
3 vampire nighthawk
3 abyssal persecutor
1 thraximundar
This sideboard used with my grixis control deck can change it into an all out agro deck, which catches the opponent off guard enough to generally win. More information about the deck can be found here, http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=240027
shoot me a pm or leave a message on that thread if you want any help playing with a more aggressive sideboard like that. You have to change your main deck a little bit to deal with it, but it's doable and generally can crush other decks game 2 because they sideboard for the control matchup.
Heroes of the Plane Studios is awesome.
Decks
Mono black control
BUG :symb::symu::symg:
EXT:
Time Sieve :symw::symu::symb:
T1.5
Eva Depths :symg::symb:
EDH:
Glissa, the traitor :symb::symg:
Currently dreaming up:
T2- Eldrazi BUG :symg::symu::symb:
EXT- Superfriends 2.0 :symu::symw::symr:
"I'd like to buy a bowel" - wheel of torture
A little lost in translation there. I meant a way to attack Ascensions. I agree that an aggro plan is one of them but it leaves you open to losing your good sideboard matches against other decks. I'm still looking though.
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
2 Earthquake
3 Double Negative
4 Treasure Hunt
2 Jace
Creatures:
3 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
4 Calcite Snapper
3 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Sorin Markov
1 Chandra Nalaar
I'm wondering whether Mneumonic Wall has been considered? Mid-game it gets back removal/draw when needed, then if it dies, you snatch it back with Cruel Ultimatum and get back Cruel Ultimatum the next turn? Also, I've always wondered about running Pyromancer's Ascension as an alternate finisher?
Temporarily retired from the game
Thanks a bunch to Rivenor from Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the awesome sigpic!
Rage quit reason of the moment:
Pyromancer's is a pretty sweet card, but I would have to drastically change to deck to play with it. I toyed with the idea of just making a Pyromancer deck but in the end I found it to be way to inconsistent. You really want to be taking advantage of cards like Time Warp etc if you are playing Ascensions.
This is what I'm playing now.
2 Mnemonic Wall
Planeswalkers:
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Chandra Nalaar
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Counter:
4 Double Negative
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
4 Consuming Vapors
Draw:
4 See Beyond
Discard:
4 Blightning
Other:
3 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Rite of Replication
4 Crumbling Necropolis
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Swamp
4 Island
3 Mountain
I haven't actually tested this particular build yet. I was running Into the Roil over Blightning before, so I could bounce a planeswalker when he or she was about to take lethal, but Blightning is just so damn brutal.
I went with See Beyond over Ponder because I feel it's more powerful here, allowing me to hide away Sorin/Cruel/Bolas if I draw them early game.
I'm not running any mass removal in the main at the moment. I've only played maybe two games where I've actually needed, so I only have it in the sideboard.
The one-of Rite of Replication is pretty fun. Early on, I can get a Sprouting Thrinax to trade with theirs. Mid-game, I get Broodmates. Late-game, I kick it on Mnemonic Wall.
[insert text about how good Cruel is blah blah blah]
Liliana's -2 and Jace's +0 are retarded together. On a creature-heavy field, Chandra and Sorin eat critters. On an empty field, Sorin's -3 and Chandra's -8 ends the game. Bolas just ends the game, period.
Given that many of our decks main-deck multiple solutions to Planeswalkers, I tend to prefer using the Needle to remove other threats. Dropping a Needle on Tectonic Edge against U/W control within the first three turns has really helped keep my mana-base alive. It's also not so significant a threat that they feel the need to drop an O-Ring on it. If they do... well, that's an O-Ring that won't be taking out Jace.
4 Calcite Snapper
2 Kathari Remnant
2 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
2 Sorin Markov
3 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Bituminous Blast
2 Consuming Vapors
3 Divination
4 Crumbling Necropolis
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Creeping Tarpit
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
4 Mountain
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
3 Consume the Meek
2 Pithing Needle
2 Banefire
1 Blightning
2 Haunting Echoes
2 Mind Control
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/events.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/amsterdam10ptq/0501denver