Lightmine field does little good as they can establish board position and drain you out with the Viscera Seer-Highborn combo. Arc Trail is good against Vamps.
i just totally love these xmas land scenarios in the red aggro decks...
let me add there a lil something in the lines of ...
T3 Land, Chieftain (opp casts lightning bolt)
T4 Land, 0cc Artifact & Rebirth, Wardriver, and Guide > Swing for 2 (opp casts pyroclasm)
and its over , dont get me wrong i love these all in decks but i dont think they will be highly competitive coz its based on luck , just my 2c
If you know you're playing against a red deck, side in Revoker and name Pyroclasm on turn 2. It's not all luck, but if you're playing the wrong game if you don't want luck to be a part of it.
@Chubbin: All versions of this deck are susceptible to being blown out by Pyroclasm and Ratchet Bomb, both of which play faster than we can win the game. Against a prepared opponent, you're gonna see post-boardwipe game states long before they get enough mana to play a Titan.
I understand that, however I don't see Chimeric Mass doing enough on an empty board.
If you know you're playing against a red deck, side in Revoker and name Pyroclasm on turn 2. It's not all luck, but if you're playing the wrong game if you don't want luck to be a part of it.
LOL i think someone needs to learn what an activated ability is...
/facepalm. Don't know why I thought Revoker was just abilities and not activated abilities. I deserve that, lol. So yea, won't work on Pyroclasm/Slagstorm, obviously
/facepalm. Don't know why I thought Revoker was just abilities and not activated abilities. I deserve that, lol. So yea, won't work on Pyroclasm/Slagstorm, obviously
I decided to put together this deck based on all of the posts I have seen so far. I definitely like the idea of the deck, there are a lot of slots open in my build that I think could be changed if needed
The deck is more focused around the Machine itself, with Trinket Mage to shuffle out the 0/1 cost artifacts. The Trigon of Thought is there as a late game draw engine, easily able to be powered out and abused, even without a proliferate engine behind it. It isn't tested, and I'm not keeping my hopes up about it, but I think it will do well in this deck.
D-Force and Comet storm round out the high powered spells, with 3 Koth instead of 4. The lack of 15+ mountains make him a bit weaker, so he was dropped to three in favor of engine pieces. Valakut is still there, since it can still provide a bit of late game reach if necessary.
I added blue for two main reasons. First, and most obvious, Trinket Mage is ridiculous in this deck, able to fetch 11 different artifacts, plus more out of the board if necessary. The second, and more concerning, is that it provides a bit of protection against the green shatterstorm. It also helps to be able to recharge the Trigon if needed.
yes goblin guide is very very good. also about jinxed idol i have it in the board for the control matchups and it really does do them trouble especially if they dont counter it. cause then it just does 2 damage to them each turn and its not like a counter spell can do anything about it. that 2 damage is really important especially when they somewhat stabilize and you either have like just 2 creatures out or you cant keep swinging out. also by the time im playing jinxed idol the opponent is at like 5 or less life and he has to answer idol. even if he plays a sweeper and kills all of our creatures hes still stuck with it. also it forces them to activate their man lands and then sac them so they dont die. usually activating the land and then having it die usually taps them out or at the very least they can only counter one thing. jinxed idol has won me a couple of games online and is pretty valuable. at the very least u get 2 dmg in for 2 mana. you can even use it as a sac outlet if u happen to steal an opponents creature or even just sac your own perilous myr and ping them for 2 more dmg.
also @ the guy playing 4 chimeric mass...why? have you really played with chimeric mass? the mana u sink into it never equals the mana you could have spent on a more aggressive approach. and the old answer "oh i can just sac it to kuldotha" is a lame excuse. thats like me saying, "im going to play golem heart. its not going to do anything but atleast i can sac it to kuldotha rebirth" might as why play the mox then if you are going to just sac an artifact.
also for SB options for this deck i have forked bolt, arc trails, some sort of creature steal, and jinxed idol. forked bolt costs w/e an uncommon costs at your store. online its like pennies. arc trail also not that much and jinxed idol costs a dollar. other than that i have either combust or reverberate in the SB for fun really. combust i just put in there cause too many people where playing baneslayer. and reverberate is just fun. you can like counter a spell with it, or if someone ramps against u, you can ramp also, or they are like im gunna play genesis wave for alot, you're like me too! also at the very least you can bolt them twice, and 6 damage is quite alot.
-chias
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am petitioning for the removal of people who whine about mythic rarity. Sig this if you agree; they should just get over it. The mythic rarity serves to protect the price of rares that due to record printings are extremely lower than what they were during say, Ravnica block. Get a job.
Okay, both your build and Christoffer Andersen's, I would say, are versions of the deck that can afford to play Mox Opal. Just for the simple fact that you guys have 18 artifacts, and 4 of them are Ornithopters. You both look like you're trying to go for an all-in "T1 play a crapload of dudes-T2 Bushwhacker/CWZ swing for huge" strategy. I personally prefer not to go all-in if I don't have to (like I said in a previous post, Pyroclasm and Ratchet Bomb make me noivous :embarrass:), but this still looks pretty awesome.
You might not like Goblin Wardriver that much, but he's actually very fast with Opals in the deck. Consider the following goldfish:
Turn 1: Mountain, Ornithopter, Memnite, Mox Opal, tap Mountain and Mox Opal to play Wardriver.
Turn 2: Mountain, tap Mox Opal to Rebirth it, tap Mountains to play kicked Bushwhacker, swing for 20. Thanks for playing.
Of course, that example is just a nuts god draw, but even without the T2 plays, you're swinging for 5. And odds are you're going to have a Guide or a Bushwhacker in hand, so the swing will often be for more than 5. (Guide makes it 8, kicked Bushwhacker makes it 11, both make it 15.) Even without a god draw, you can easily win on T3 because of Opal enabling a T1 Wardriver.
Hmm, you do make a good point. In those scenarios, Wardriver does seem helpful. I guess playtesting is really the only true way to find out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WKemba, Kha Regent [EDH]
"When you look into the eyes of a man grown old,
wonder about the secrets gone untold.
When you look into the eyes of a young child,
marvel at the innocence running wild."
Even without the crazy Mox Opal play wardriver on turn 2 followed by bushwhacker on turn 3 is still 9+ damage depending on whether you played a rebirth or guide on turn 1
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Type 2 UBControlBU UWDelverWU BWUSuperfriendsUWB
Type 2 in development WBUCounterless Solar FlareBWU
Type 2 Retired UBWControlBUW RBVampiresBR GRValakutGR GElves!G GBEldrazi GreenBG
The infect route is not clunky. Try just adding corpse cur with a throne of geth down and them at 1 poison. Draw into another cur. See how much poison you can proliferate onto them while they try to kill your corpse cur forever. play koth and smash the control mirror. Spine is indeed good, I run 3. This deck needs slag storm / pyroclasm
2nd @ PTQ San Juan 2010 [RDW]
3rd @ Provincials 2011 [Solar Flare]
1st @ GPT Orlando 2011 [Mono G Wolf Run]
T8'd @ GPT LA 2012 [UW Delver]
T8'd @ GPT Vancouver 2012 [RW Humans]
T8'd @ GPT Toronto 2012 [UWR Midrange]
Attended GP Toronto 2012, but didn't get there [UR Twin]
Currently top 8'd every GPT I ever entered
I was wondering if anyone is still playing RDW and if there are any changes they are making. I am personally going to be focusing a bit more on my kuldotha goblins as they definitely gained more from MBS. I will do more on this primer if there are those that are interested in seeing it updated.
/facepalm. Don't know why I thought Revoker was just abilities and not activated abilities. I deserve that, lol. So yea, won't work on Pyroclasm/Slagstorm, obviously
Phyrexian Revoker still shuts down Ratchet Bomb in addition to being a creature, so he's not a terrible sideboard idea.
No, it isn't just you. This will make std fun again for me. And it will beat down Valakut. Hard.
I would caution against getting overzealous about the Valakut matchup. It's still one of our better matchups since they almost have to change the way their deck plays just to stop us (and some of them aren't even running Lightning Bolt anymore), but they are taking notice of aggro's slow and steady rise. I've noticed a few Valakut sideboards packing 1 or 2 random Slagstorm in addition to 4 Pyroclasm, and some builds have sprinkled Lotus Cobra in the main as both a mana source and a trade-blocker.
Thinking about benching Shatter for Crush and Tunnel Ignus for Jinxed Idol. None of the artifacts I ever want to destroy are creatures, and Ignus seems like a win-more card that gets in the way of my main strategy and only works against Valakut and RUG/BUG Tempo.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
:symu::symb: Blue-Black Control | Red Deck Wins
Legacy
Elves
Commander
:symu::symr::symg: Riku of Two Reflections | :symb::symg::symw: Ghave, Guru of Spores
I personally wouldn't play Ignus. He dies to Valakut's removal (... yeah, i know) and just wins more. This adds 3-4 sb slots. I agree on not being too zealous, still: it's imho a very good MU. Needs more testing.
What do you board in Arc Trail for? Why did Christoffer take forked bolt over the good old lightning bolt?
Sounds pretty clunky to me. If we're talking amazing scenarios, I'd much rather ult Koth on t4.
Anyhow I also feel slagstorm/pyroclasm is very necessary to the deck. I run slag as a 4 of just because I love cards with "modes" on them.
Referring to the U/R decklist, I'm wondering if you'd be interested in prophetic prism? I know you're running moxes but I find running enemy colored decks in current standard to be a tad risky just because of the mana screw. How is trigon of thought working for you? Trinket mage is very tempting!
Hmm... Jinxed Idol. Seems like that would be a bit slow and counter-intuitive of this deck. 2CMC and sacrificing a creature just to give it to your opponent. I mean I can understand it also being Rebirth food, but it's a little expensive for that. Your opponent would have to keep it for 3 turns just to hit the same CMC:Damage ratio of Bolt, but Bolt does that much damage in 2 turns plus you'd still have the damage from the creature that you sac'd to give Idol away. I guess give it to an opponent to force them to sac a wall or something, and then when you get it back, Rebirth it?
I just don't know if it's worth it, it seems like something people would rather play against us to minimize the onslaught. Just my opinion, but I tried to Revoke a Pyroclasm, so maybe today's just not my day!
If you know you're playing against a red deck, side in Revoker and name Pyroclasm on turn 2. It's not all luck, but if you're playing the wrong game if you don't want luck to be a part of it.
SELLING A CHAMPS DORAN + LIBRARY OF ALEXANDRIA + FOIL DARK CONFIDANT
MY TRADE THREAD _/_ ALWAYS OPEN TO TRADING SOMETHING _\_ HAVE A LOOK
I understand that, however I don't see Chimeric Mass doing enough on an empty board.
LOL i think someone needs to learn what an activated ability is...
SELLING A CHAMPS DORAN + LIBRARY OF ALEXANDRIA + FOIL DARK CONFIDANT
MY TRADE THREAD _/_ ALWAYS OPEN TO TRADING SOMETHING _\_ HAVE A LOOK
Pyroclasm isn't an ability..
Meddling Mage - Here's what you were looking for.
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Island
11 Mountain
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Planeswalkers
3 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra Nalaar
3 Trinket Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Spells
3 Galvanic Blast
2 Slagstorm
2 Destructive Force
1 Comet Storm
Artifacts
3 Mox Opal
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Throne of Geth
1 Voltaic Key
3 Contagion Clasp
3 Chimeric Mass
2 Tumble Magnet
2 Lux Cannon
2 Trigon of Thought
The deck is more focused around the Machine itself, with Trinket Mage to shuffle out the 0/1 cost artifacts. The Trigon of Thought is there as a late game draw engine, easily able to be powered out and abused, even without a proliferate engine behind it. It isn't tested, and I'm not keeping my hopes up about it, but I think it will do well in this deck.
D-Force and Comet storm round out the high powered spells, with 3 Koth instead of 4. The lack of 15+ mountains make him a bit weaker, so he was dropped to three in favor of engine pieces. Valakut is still there, since it can still provide a bit of late game reach if necessary.
I added blue for two main reasons. First, and most obvious, Trinket Mage is ridiculous in this deck, able to fetch 11 different artifacts, plus more out of the board if necessary. The second, and more concerning, is that it provides a bit of protection against the green shatterstorm. It also helps to be able to recharge the Trigon if needed.
also @ the guy playing 4 chimeric mass...why? have you really played with chimeric mass? the mana u sink into it never equals the mana you could have spent on a more aggressive approach. and the old answer "oh i can just sac it to kuldotha" is a lame excuse. thats like me saying, "im going to play golem heart. its not going to do anything but atleast i can sac it to kuldotha rebirth" might as why play the mox then if you are going to just sac an artifact.
also for SB options for this deck i have forked bolt, arc trails, some sort of creature steal, and jinxed idol. forked bolt costs w/e an uncommon costs at your store. online its like pennies. arc trail also not that much and jinxed idol costs a dollar. other than that i have either combust or reverberate in the SB for fun really. combust i just put in there cause too many people where playing baneslayer. and reverberate is just fun. you can like counter a spell with it, or if someone ramps against u, you can ramp also, or they are like im gunna play genesis wave for alot, you're like me too! also at the very least you can bolt them twice, and 6 damage is quite alot.
-chias
Hmm, you do make a good point. In those scenarios, Wardriver does seem helpful. I guess playtesting is really the only true way to find out.
"When you look into the eyes of a man grown old,
wonder about the secrets gone untold.
When you look into the eyes of a young child,
marvel at the innocence running wild."
UBControlBU
UWDelverWU
BWUSuperfriendsUWB
Type 2 in development
WBUCounterless Solar FlareBWU
Type 2 Retired
UBWControlBUW
RBVampiresBR
GRValakutGR
GElves!G
GBEldrazi GreenBG
Legacy
UWStonebladeWU
EDH
GWRhys the RedeemedWG
GWURafiq of the ManyUWG
GRWMayael the AnimaWRG
In development (Post rotation):
RUGWalkersRUG
They side out singular removal for mass removal so bone hoard is hard to deal with.
not uncommon for bonehoard to be a 7/7 creature turn 4
4x Goblin Guide
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Goblin Wardriver
4x Goblin Chieftain
4x Memnite
4x Signal Pest
4x Ornithopther
2x Molten-Tail Masticore
4x Kuldotha Rebirth
2x Flame Slash
4x Lightning Bolt
Land: 20
18x Mountain
2x Teetering Peaks
Suggestions? Might replace Molten-Tail Masticore with Hero of Oxid Ridge when i get some. Same for Teetering Peaks and Contested War Zone.
I probably wouldn't be playing this deck if he didn't exist.
On another note, what are people having as side boards?
Mine is
4 Arc Trail
4 Perilous Myr
3 Jinxed Idol
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Mark of Mutiny
2nd @ PTQ San Juan 2010 [RDW]
3rd @ Provincials 2011 [Solar Flare]
1st @ GPT Orlando 2011 [Mono G Wolf Run]
T8'd @ GPT LA 2012 [UW Delver]
T8'd @ GPT Vancouver 2012 [RW Humans]
T8'd @ GPT Toronto 2012 [UWR Midrange]
Attended GP Toronto 2012, but didn't get there [UR Twin]
Currently top 8'd every GPT I ever entered
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
3 Perilous Myr
3 Jinxed Idol
3 Arc Trail
3 Tunnel Ignus
I suppose I should really pick up a playset of phyrexian revoker - Now doesn't that Jace look pretty sitting out there!
I would probably sub that in for the Tunnel Ignus' so I guess I agree with Bowzr's list in different numbers.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
The following list went 5-0 and got 2nd last FNM.
3 Hero of Oxid Ridge
3 Plated Geopede
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kargan Dragonlord
2 Spikeshot Elder
3 Ember Hauler
3 Koth
4 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Arc Trail
4 Slagstorm
2 Smoldering Spires
8 Fetch
12 Mountain
SB
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Tumble Magnet
3 Mark of Mutiny
3 Molten-Tail Masticore
My meta is 1/2 Aggro + 1/2 Control where most control players don't know what they're doing -.- but so far this list has been excellent.
Phyrexian Revoker still shuts down Ratchet Bomb in addition to being a creature, so he's not a terrible sideboard idea.
I would caution against getting overzealous about the Valakut matchup. It's still one of our better matchups since they almost have to change the way their deck plays just to stop us (and some of them aren't even running Lightning Bolt anymore), but they are taking notice of aggro's slow and steady rise. I've noticed a few Valakut sideboards packing 1 or 2 random Slagstorm in addition to 4 Pyroclasm, and some builds have sprinkled Lotus Cobra in the main as both a mana source and a trade-blocker.
3 Arc Trail
3 Shatter
3 Tunnel Ignus
4 Perilous Myr
2 Mark of Mutiny
Thinking about benching Shatter for Crush and Tunnel Ignus for Jinxed Idol. None of the artifacts I ever want to destroy are creatures, and Ignus seems like a win-more card that gets in the way of my main strategy and only works against Valakut and RUG/BUG Tempo.
:symu::symb: Blue-Black Control | Red Deck Wins
Legacy
Elves
Commander
:symu::symr::symg: Riku of Two Reflections | :symb::symg::symw: Ghave, Guru of Spores
What do you board in Arc Trail for? Why did Christoffer take forked bolt over the good old lightning bolt?
http://manashift.com/index.php/2011/02/deck-of-the-week-kuldotha-red-by-christoffer-andersen/
for reference, the decklist. Dont have the scg link here.
Anyhow I also feel slagstorm/pyroclasm is very necessary to the deck. I run slag as a 4 of just because I love cards with "modes" on them.
Referring to the U/R decklist, I'm wondering if you'd be interested in prophetic prism? I know you're running moxes but I find running enemy colored decks in current standard to be a tad risky just because of the mana screw. How is trigon of thought working for you? Trinket mage is very tempting!
Anyways this is my most current iteration:
2x necropede
4x everflowing chalice
2x sphere of the suns
2x mox opal
4x throne of geth
3x contagion clasp
3x ichor wellspring
2x spine of ish sah
1x lux cannon
4x chandra nalaar
4x lightning bolt
4x slagstorm
4x lord of shatterskull pass
2x kargan dragonlord
2x necropede
1x contagion engine
4x goblin ruinblaster
2x mark of mutiny
I just don't know if it's worth it, it seems like something people would rather play against us to minimize the onslaught. Just my opinion, but I tried to Revoke a Pyroclasm, so maybe today's just not my day!
SELLING A CHAMPS DORAN + LIBRARY OF ALEXANDRIA + FOIL DARK CONFIDANT
MY TRADE THREAD _/_ ALWAYS OPEN TO TRADING SOMETHING _\_ HAVE A LOOK