For one mana cost/or 2 life, removing a win condition from opponents deck is enough for me to at least say its viable. Especially with as many decks run dual or tri condition decks. Yes I still have used one or two cards to get rid of one relevant to the game. Theres strength in that no removal card has been made that can turn one pick their hand and remove a win condition with one other card in your hand. All i have to do is sit behind a turn four phyrexian obliterator and watch you attack me and sacrifice your permanents. Before flying is mentioned, im running control.
what do people think of boros as a deck after NPH?
It's probably going to come down to how much Sword and/or Batterskull affect the Caw matchup. Right now, a Sword on one of your guys is pretty hard to answer, but you can't answer a Sword from Caw very well either.Their deck is probably structured better than yours, in terms of digging for that Sword (or a Mystic).
Surgical extraction is taking up Four places in my deck to cancel out a potential 16 cards i can remove from theirs for only one mana, or even two life, i can do that. Who said I couldnt run creatures in my deck to win. The problem with all of the cards you've mentioned failed before, was the fact that you couldn't turn one play them ive played hours of proxy matches with a group of around 10 people playing any cards they want, and won much more often than not to the caw blades that are going to "crush" as soon as the new equipments hit the set. Surgical extraction works great when it hits, but im not relying on it, its not the card that wins me games, its the card that prevents the opponent who im playing to win games.
wow, really don't want to have the Surgical Extraction discussion again. There's an abundance of argumentation on this and its well understood why its bad. And then there's the historical proof. Year after year these cards come and go and none of them is ever useful as a general purpose answer. These are purely niche cards with very narrow specific uses.
Its a skill test basically. Some people don't understand the arguments when presented on paper and will just have to find out for themselves when they play and then lose. Alot. Lose alot. You'll find out.
i'll just try to summarize it, very briefly, one last time. Its not the cards in their deck that are a problem. Its the cards in their hand and in play. Thats really all you need to know to understand why Surgical Extraction is not suitable as a general purpose answer.
wow, really don't want to have the Surgical Extraction discussion again. There's an abundance of argumentation on this and its well understood why its bad. And then there's the historical proof. Year after year these cards come and go and none of them is ever useful as a general purpose answer. These are purely niche cards with very narrow specific uses.
Its a skill test basically. Some people don't understand the arguments when presented on paper and will just have to find out for themselves when they play and then lose. Alot. Lose alot. You'll find out.
i'll just try to summarize it, very briefly, one last time. Its not the cards in their deck that are a problem. Its the cards in their hand and in play. Thats really all you need to know to understand why Surgical Extraction is not suitable as a general purpose answer.
Despise, i can see EXACTLY what is in your hand, discard that stoneforge/jace/gideon, Surgical Extraction, now you cant play any of them, its now the beginning of your FIRST turn, you haven't dropped SINGLE land yet. Ive never said extraction has ever been even remotely good in the past, I'm saying this one card is going to make it workable because it increases your options turn one, and makes the rest of the game easier.
It's clear you won't believe us, but everyone arguing against SE is correct.
Here's what you can do: prove us wrong. Take your Despise/Surgical Extraction deck to a SCG and top 8 with it. Not an FNM. Not a Win-a-box. A real tournament with real players.
Until then, you're arguing against years of data that says that discard + extraction doesn't work despite how good it may look to some people.
I remember trying to do the same thing with thoughtseize and extirpate back in the day. That was back when MBC was actually pretty viable as a tier 1 deck. Back when damnation - korlash, heir to blockade - shriekmaw, etc were around, and it still didn't work. It was a sb card against reveillark at best.
The reason is because it's such a narrow card. MBC wants to strip your current answers either from your hand or from the board. Sure you can totally boot any wincon from their deck/hand completely, but unless it's in their hand it doesn't really do much.
for example, say against caw go I get lucky enough to t1 rip a SoFaF then surgical extraction it. Cool, no more sword (I'd say this is best case scenario). The opponent now has 7 cards on his turn 1 as opposed to my 5. Did I hurt them? yes, but my t1 discard spell did most of the work there, surgical extraction just put me at an early game disadvantage with the POSSIBILITY of helping me out in the long run.
The fact is this is BEST CASE SCENARIO. It's not going to always be nearly as effective (if you can really call it that effective). At best it's a SB card against vengevine.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Big thanks to DarkNightCavalier from heroes of the planes studios for the sig!
The fact is that what's in your hand matters far more than what's in your library, and that's why discard on its own is good while Extraction isn't. So you remove that single Stoneforge, then get rid of the rest? You Blightninged yourself to discard that Stoneforge when you could have just have it discarded for the same effect. It's the same reason why mill is bad - nobody cares if you milled away threats, because as long as they have a threat in hand, it's still more dangerous.
so yea, I dunno if it will be caw-go on top after the new set hits, but it will deffinitely be some sort of stoneforge/equipment tutor package. Whether it be esper, mono w, w/r, etc.
Simple fact is the new sword and batterskull just put the whole package over the top. Stoneforge can now effectively tutor and cheat into play an aggressive answer for just about anything your opponent can put on the table.
I wouldn't be suprised to see a lot of players including hammer of ruin in their equipment line-up as well now. It seems like it could become really good as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Big thanks to DarkNightCavalier from heroes of the planes studios for the sig!
I dunno. I've been playing for a few years myself and this set doesnt really bother me at all. Of course I don't play at an extremely competitive level either...
EVERY SINGLE SET that's released I always hear the same stuff about "iT ez BroKenz!!!". I've said this before and I'll say it again, there is a balance of power. There are always going to be those few cards in a format that are just more above and beyond the other cards in the format and are played more. This will ALWAYS happen.
The fact is, there will always be a shift as well. One deck will dominate for awhile, people will figure out what wins against it, then that deck will take over for awhile. Before caw-blade people were up in arms with valakut decks. Awhile back people were all about jund. Before that it was 5c control. Before that it was fae. I even remember kithkin taking over for awhile somewhere in there. This has gone on for ages. It's not that certain things are broken, it's just the player's nature of wanting to go with the "sure thing" because they want to win at these big tournaments. Then people look at the top 8 of these tournaments and see a bunch of the same deck and say "well this must be the most powerful deck, Imma play it too". Meanwhile the real deck builders are already testing and working on beating it while staying ahead of the jank. Sometimes they come up with something, sometimes they fall back on the roots until they get those 1 or 2 cards that make it work when the next set hits.
Seems like there's always going to be that one tier 1 deck that dominates. The only times that this seems less so is off a fresh block rotation where there aren't that many cards in standard.
However I also remember the times of affinity and dredge. i will kindly eat my words if new phyrexia brings magic into those types of times. However I just don't really see that happening.
I present the following question under the above presented pretense. Also this does not concern itself with the deck being debated by the quoted poster and instead is simply relevant to the statement made.
What exactly constitutes a real tournament? Are you implying that only with a significant level of placing among a large sampling of players matters (IE attendance must be greater than X value)? Or is it perhaps the level of status conveyed from placing well at one event over another, likely due to other well known attendees? Maybe the amount of said prizes awarded to those who win?
I find it funny that in most circles of competitive play, from local to national, the most prevalent decks are those deemed the top decks. Yet regardless of how well you might place regularly in said environment it doesn't count unless it's SCG or other like large event.
Anyway without getting to far off track.
I'd say it's simply to early to tell how NPH will change standard. Any speculation is likely about as relevant as divining the answer via tea leaves. Sure some cards are going to be extremely likely to see competitive play but some won't be quite as obvious. Just think of how many SoM or MBS seemed likely for top spots before the sets went live but saw little or no play.
g-CAW will be the deck to beat. Standard UW control with hawks and mystics and swords, with a green splash for beast within and Bop´s.
T1: Forest, Bop.
T2: island, beast within opponent´s single land.
T3: island, Jace, unsummon 3/3 token.
you are left with a Bop, 3 lands and Jace. Opponent has 1 land in play and his turn to take.. gg..
What is Bop?
Looks great to break a land turn 2.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“And if at first you don't succeed / Then dust yourself off and try again / You can dust it off and try again, try again.”
:symw::symb:Steel Wb Weenie
I present the following question under the above presented pretense. Also this does not concern itself with the deck being debated by the quoted poster and instead is simply relevant to the statement made.
What exactly constitutes a real tournament? Are you implying that only with a significant level of placing among a large sampling of players matters (IE attendance must be greater than X value)? Or is it perhaps the level of status conveyed from placing well at one event over another, likely due to other well known attendees? Maybe the amount of said prizes awarded to those who win?
A "real" tournament would be a 5K, an Invitational, a PTQ, a Grand Prix, or a Pro Tour. Basically the magic number you're looking for is probably around 100. If you're under 100 people you have a small sample size.
The real decks are top 8'ing through 500 people fields (ie StarCityGames events). Or better yet a Grand Prix, whose attendance can be in the thousands (especially in America).
//
I predict the meta looks like:
Stoneforge Mystic decks
Valakut
Some of the new combo decks
I think aggro takes a harsh hit from Batterskull seeing print.
A "real" tournament would be a 5K, an Invitational, a PTQ, a Grand Prix, or a Pro Tour. Basically the magic number you're looking for is probably around 100. If you're under 100 people you have a small sample size.
The real decks are top 8'ing through 500 people fields (ie StarCityGames events). Or better yet a Grand Prix, whose attendance can be in the thousands (especially in America).
I think it's more a matter of rounds. Of course, this is a direct result of number of players so your point stands, but it's the rounds that separate wheat from chaff. Going 4 rounds at an FNM with a bad deck is possible. Going 8+ rounds at a SCG5k with a bad deck is significantly less likely.
Not only does 8 rounds mean a bad deck's inconsistency will become more obvious, but the player level at a bigger tournament tends to be higher. It is possible and in some places, likely, to play 2-3 rounds of very bad players or bad decks at an FNM. That only leaves 2-3 rounds against good players. That can make an otherwise respectable 4-1 FNM an actual 2-1 with 2 effective BYEs. Of course, everyone who posts FNM results plays in the most competitive FNMs ever with lots of Pros and 2000+ rated people
There are other considerations as well. Did you start 0-2 and finish 5-3 or 6-2? That's a lot different than starting 5-0 and finishing 5-3. Losing those first 2 puts you in the jungle with both worse players and worse decks. Starting 5-0 puts you at the top tables against better players. That's a lot different than beating scrubs for 5 rounds after losing your first 2.
i agree. the difficulty of a tournament is primarily a function of the number of rounds. the difficulty of winning a top8 may be related to WHO attended the tournament, but making the cut to top8 is really an endurance contest.
a large tournament has 8 or more rounds. this corresponds to about 250 people or more. sufficiently large tournaments (Grand Prix, for example) can have TWICE as many rounds over 2 days.
what we look for as evidence of potency is a deck that can 6 or more rounds at a big tournament with some consistency. Anybody can get lucky matchups or nut draws for a couple of rounds and this is why nobody even thinks of using FNM or MTGO daily events (i.e. 3 or 4 round tournaments) to measure a deck's potency.
and i'll tell you something. its been A LONG TIME since a mono-black deck performed well at multiple large events.
I think it's more a matter of rounds. Of course, this is a direct result of number of players so your point stands, but it's the rounds that separate wheat from chaff. Going 4 rounds at an FNM with a bad deck is possible. Going 8+ rounds at a SCG5k with a bad deck is significantly less likely.
I will certainly agree with that point. Though the same deck performance statistics can be garnered from the results of a decent sample of smaller round events as well.
Just the same though I find it a tad elitist to encapsulate only attendee's of such events as "real players". Discounting all other arena's of competitive play seems foolish to me. Remember T1 decks don't just pop out of no where someone has to design and test them some where before they make it to said big events. Anyway I'll leave it at that as not to derail the thread any further.
I'm surprised how much people are underrating MBC. Yes obliterator may not be an "I win" card like, say, jace or tarmogoyf, but it's a 5/5 trampler that pro-black creatures can't block profitably. That in and of itself is huge. and it *can* beat cawblade, for one simple reason: we have more answers than they have threats. They tutor up a sword turn two with mystic? We rip it out with duress/IoK. Try to equip a hawk? Kill it in response. Jace, Gideon? Vampire hexmage and hex parasite say hi. And also bye, because the walker is dead. RUG? all I need to do is kill one Titan and stick it on a mimic vat. GG.
And then there is torpor orb. This card is going to force cawblade to maindeck artifact/enchantment hate, because otherwise we rob the deck of it's two biggest sources of CA. Oh, and it shuts off primeval Titan, all the living weapons, and any other ETB triggers we may face. It's almost worth a maindeck slot.
Dont discount MBC in this meta yet - it can dish out a lot of damage, simply by denying you a way to win.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
I'm surprised how much people are underrating MBC. Yes obliterator may not be an "I win" card like, say, jace or tarmogoyf, but it's a 5/5 trampler that pro-black creatures can't block profitably. That in and of itself is huge. and it *can* beat cawblade, for one simple reason: we have more answers than they have threats. They tutor up a sword turn two with mystic? We rip it out with duress/IoK. Try to equip a hawk? Kill it in response. Jace, Gideon? Vampire hexmage and hex parasite say hi. And also bye, because the walker is dead. RUG? all I need to do is kill one Titan and stick it on a mimic vat. GG.
And then there is torpor orb. This card is going to force cawblade to maindeck artifact/enchantment hate, because otherwise we rob the deck of it's two biggest sources of CA. Oh, and it shuts off primeval Titan, all the living weapons, and any other ETB triggers we may face. It's almost worth a maindeck slot.
Dont discount MBC in this meta yet - it can dish out a lot of damage, simply by denying you a way to win.
Finishers have never been an issue for MBC in this format. Pre-NPH offers Grave Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Myr Battlespehere, Precursor Golem, Abyssal Persecutor, and if you'd like to scrape the bottom of the barrel, Malakir Bloodwitch. The issue is everything else. Beyond Mind Sludge, there is little to no incentive to be playing monoblack right now.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We are the middle children of history. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War is a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.
Finishers have never been an issue for MBC in this format. Pre-NPH offers Grave Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Myr Battlespehere, Precursor Golem, Abyssal Persecutor, and if you'd like to scrape the bottom of the barrel, Malakir Bloodwitch. The issue is everything else. Beyond Mind Sludge, there is little to no incentive to be playing monoblack right now.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
It saddens me greatly that you're right. Tom Lapille in his article a couple of days ago when he spoiled Obliterator was like "Dear reader, you may have noticed our crack team of designers gave black a lot of love this set lolol." I'm just like. No, what you gave BLUE with Worldwake was love. Everyone else now is getting sloppy seconds because of the fantastic lovemaking session that produced (whether intentionally or not) the best PW that will ever be printed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Beauty of mine, sit before me. Let me peruse you and remember you... always like this.
It saddens me greatly that you're right. Tom Lapille in his article a couple of days ago when he spoiled Obliterator was like "Dear reader, you may have noticed our crack team of designers gave black a lot of love this set lolol." I'm just like. No, what you gave BLUE with Worldwake was love. Everyone else now is getting sloppy seconds because of the fantastic lovemaking session that produced (whether intentionally or not) the best PW that will ever be printed.
We still have to deal with the Planeswalker Jitte equivalent. We've almost gotten the Skullclamp over with though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
That was pretty interesting. But dropping a warship on me is cheating. Take it back!
This set didn't give MBC anything, because the only new stuff that cares about you being MONO black is the equipment and the obliterator, which aren't really meant for control. It remains true after NPH that the only reasons to go mono black for a control deck are Mind Sludge and a more consistent ability to hit turn 1 IoK/Duress/Despise. If you're running Inkmoth or Tec Edge, maybe Tezz's Gambit replaces Sign in Blood, I'll have to try it out. That's pretty much it.
MBC will still smoke alot of FNM's because creature removal is alot more important there, and JTMS (as well as counterspells) is pretty unimpressive against a whole swath of creature aggro decks where you'd much rather just have more removal and BSZ's. It should also be good against this Splinter Twin combo because all the removal is live and interrupts the combo, as well as the heavy discard being quite good there. But it'll get destroyed at a 5K, as results have shown -- there you are gonna need PW removal and counterspells quite often over the course of 9 rounds.
Oh, and Mental Misstep will see a lot more play than people realize.
i doubt it theres only 12 commonly played (and might soon bee played) cards that misstep works on 2-3 are burn so hey you still lose two. 3 of them are discard so hey ether pay one U to counter it pay two to counter it or just take the discard and keep the dead card.3 are creatures, glint hawk (which sees play in only quest), goblin guide which you just spent two life turn 0 to prevent two dmg and a possible 8th card, and the last one hex parasite, well mana leak is prob a better option. the rest being draw spells and basic utility spells what seriously a spell pirce is better ojust let them have that preordain. at most in standard misstep will see sb play. misstep seems to be alot better in legacy
Modern
R/ Boros W/
U/ Eldrazi-Post G/
Top 8'd:
2x Tcg Player Qualifiers
1x MWS Series Trial
Top'16:
PTQ Austin
PTQ Paris
Extended:
RIP
Legacy: Zoo
"I am the beast of America"
Props to Hakai Studios for the banner
It's probably going to come down to how much Sword and/or Batterskull affect the Caw matchup. Right now, a Sword on one of your guys is pretty hard to answer, but you can't answer a Sword from Caw very well either.Their deck is probably structured better than yours, in terms of digging for that Sword (or a Mystic).
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
Its a skill test basically. Some people don't understand the arguments when presented on paper and will just have to find out for themselves when they play and then lose. Alot. Lose alot. You'll find out.
i'll just try to summarize it, very briefly, one last time. Its not the cards in their deck that are a problem. Its the cards in their hand and in play. Thats really all you need to know to understand why Surgical Extraction is not suitable as a general purpose answer.
Despise, i can see EXACTLY what is in your hand, discard that stoneforge/jace/gideon, Surgical Extraction, now you cant play any of them, its now the beginning of your FIRST turn, you haven't dropped SINGLE land yet. Ive never said extraction has ever been even remotely good in the past, I'm saying this one card is going to make it workable because it increases your options turn one, and makes the rest of the game easier.
Here's what you can do: prove us wrong. Take your Despise/Surgical Extraction deck to a SCG and top 8 with it. Not an FNM. Not a Win-a-box. A real tournament with real players.
Until then, you're arguing against years of data that says that discard + extraction doesn't work despite how good it may look to some people.
The reason is because it's such a narrow card. MBC wants to strip your current answers either from your hand or from the board. Sure you can totally boot any wincon from their deck/hand completely, but unless it's in their hand it doesn't really do much.
for example, say against caw go I get lucky enough to t1 rip a SoFaF then surgical extraction it. Cool, no more sword (I'd say this is best case scenario). The opponent now has 7 cards on his turn 1 as opposed to my 5. Did I hurt them? yes, but my t1 discard spell did most of the work there, surgical extraction just put me at an early game disadvantage with the POSSIBILITY of helping me out in the long run.
The fact is this is BEST CASE SCENARIO. It's not going to always be nearly as effective (if you can really call it that effective). At best it's a SB card against vengevine.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
Simple fact is the new sword and batterskull just put the whole package over the top. Stoneforge can now effectively tutor and cheat into play an aggressive answer for just about anything your opponent can put on the table.
I wouldn't be suprised to see a lot of players including hammer of ruin in their equipment line-up as well now. It seems like it could become really good as well.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
I dunno. I've been playing for a few years myself and this set doesnt really bother me at all. Of course I don't play at an extremely competitive level either...
EVERY SINGLE SET that's released I always hear the same stuff about "iT ez BroKenz!!!". I've said this before and I'll say it again, there is a balance of power. There are always going to be those few cards in a format that are just more above and beyond the other cards in the format and are played more. This will ALWAYS happen.
The fact is, there will always be a shift as well. One deck will dominate for awhile, people will figure out what wins against it, then that deck will take over for awhile. Before caw-blade people were up in arms with valakut decks. Awhile back people were all about jund. Before that it was 5c control. Before that it was fae. I even remember kithkin taking over for awhile somewhere in there. This has gone on for ages. It's not that certain things are broken, it's just the player's nature of wanting to go with the "sure thing" because they want to win at these big tournaments. Then people look at the top 8 of these tournaments and see a bunch of the same deck and say "well this must be the most powerful deck, Imma play it too". Meanwhile the real deck builders are already testing and working on beating it while staying ahead of the jank. Sometimes they come up with something, sometimes they fall back on the roots until they get those 1 or 2 cards that make it work when the next set hits.
Seems like there's always going to be that one tier 1 deck that dominates. The only times that this seems less so is off a fresh block rotation where there aren't that many cards in standard.
However I also remember the times of affinity and dredge. i will kindly eat my words if new phyrexia brings magic into those types of times. However I just don't really see that happening.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
The most absurd card atm that our team has tested is batterskull.
:symw::symb:Steel Wb Weenie
I present the following question under the above presented pretense. Also this does not concern itself with the deck being debated by the quoted poster and instead is simply relevant to the statement made.
What exactly constitutes a real tournament? Are you implying that only with a significant level of placing among a large sampling of players matters (IE attendance must be greater than X value)? Or is it perhaps the level of status conveyed from placing well at one event over another, likely due to other well known attendees? Maybe the amount of said prizes awarded to those who win?
I find it funny that in most circles of competitive play, from local to national, the most prevalent decks are those deemed the top decks. Yet regardless of how well you might place regularly in said environment it doesn't count unless it's SCG or other like large event.
Anyway without getting to far off track.
I'd say it's simply to early to tell how NPH will change standard. Any speculation is likely about as relevant as divining the answer via tea leaves. Sure some cards are going to be extremely likely to see competitive play but some won't be quite as obvious. Just think of how many SoM or MBS seemed likely for top spots before the sets went live but saw little or no play.
Di-Counters: custom life counters Facebook page
What is Bop?
Looks great to break a land turn 2.
:symw::symb:Steel Wb Weenie
A "real" tournament would be a 5K, an Invitational, a PTQ, a Grand Prix, or a Pro Tour. Basically the magic number you're looking for is probably around 100. If you're under 100 people you have a small sample size.
The real decks are top 8'ing through 500 people fields (ie StarCityGames events). Or better yet a Grand Prix, whose attendance can be in the thousands (especially in America).
//
I predict the meta looks like:
Stoneforge Mystic decks
Valakut
Some of the new combo decks
I think aggro takes a harsh hit from Batterskull seeing print.
And Kibler's UB Poison might gain popularity.
I think it's more a matter of rounds. Of course, this is a direct result of number of players so your point stands, but it's the rounds that separate wheat from chaff. Going 4 rounds at an FNM with a bad deck is possible. Going 8+ rounds at a SCG5k with a bad deck is significantly less likely.
Not only does 8 rounds mean a bad deck's inconsistency will become more obvious, but the player level at a bigger tournament tends to be higher. It is possible and in some places, likely, to play 2-3 rounds of very bad players or bad decks at an FNM. That only leaves 2-3 rounds against good players. That can make an otherwise respectable 4-1 FNM an actual 2-1 with 2 effective BYEs. Of course, everyone who posts FNM results plays in the most competitive FNMs ever with lots of Pros and 2000+ rated people
There are other considerations as well. Did you start 0-2 and finish 5-3 or 6-2? That's a lot different than starting 5-0 and finishing 5-3. Losing those first 2 puts you in the jungle with both worse players and worse decks. Starting 5-0 puts you at the top tables against better players. That's a lot different than beating scrubs for 5 rounds after losing your first 2.
a large tournament has 8 or more rounds. this corresponds to about 250 people or more. sufficiently large tournaments (Grand Prix, for example) can have TWICE as many rounds over 2 days.
what we look for as evidence of potency is a deck that can 6 or more rounds at a big tournament with some consistency. Anybody can get lucky matchups or nut draws for a couple of rounds and this is why nobody even thinks of using FNM or MTGO daily events (i.e. 3 or 4 round tournaments) to measure a deck's potency.
and i'll tell you something. its been A LONG TIME since a mono-black deck performed well at multiple large events.
I will certainly agree with that point. Though the same deck performance statistics can be garnered from the results of a decent sample of smaller round events as well.
Just the same though I find it a tad elitist to encapsulate only attendee's of such events as "real players". Discounting all other arena's of competitive play seems foolish to me. Remember T1 decks don't just pop out of no where someone has to design and test them some where before they make it to said big events. Anyway I'll leave it at that as not to derail the thread any further.
Di-Counters: custom life counters Facebook page
And then there is torpor orb. This card is going to force cawblade to maindeck artifact/enchantment hate, because otherwise we rob the deck of it's two biggest sources of CA. Oh, and it shuts off primeval Titan, all the living weapons, and any other ETB triggers we may face. It's almost worth a maindeck slot.
Dont discount MBC in this meta yet - it can dish out a lot of damage, simply by denying you a way to win.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Finishers have never been an issue for MBC in this format. Pre-NPH offers Grave Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Myr Battlespehere, Precursor Golem, Abyssal Persecutor, and if you'd like to scrape the bottom of the barrel, Malakir Bloodwitch. The issue is everything else. Beyond Mind Sludge, there is little to no incentive to be playing monoblack right now.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
It saddens me greatly that you're right. Tom Lapille in his article a couple of days ago when he spoiled Obliterator was like "Dear reader, you may have noticed our crack team of designers gave black a lot of love this set lolol." I'm just like. No, what you gave BLUE with Worldwake was love. Everyone else now is getting sloppy seconds because of the fantastic lovemaking session that produced (whether intentionally or not) the best PW that will ever be printed.
We still have to deal with the Planeswalker Jitte equivalent. We've almost gotten the Skullclamp over with though.
MBC will still smoke alot of FNM's because creature removal is alot more important there, and JTMS (as well as counterspells) is pretty unimpressive against a whole swath of creature aggro decks where you'd much rather just have more removal and BSZ's. It should also be good against this Splinter Twin combo because all the removal is live and interrupts the combo, as well as the heavy discard being quite good there. But it'll get destroyed at a 5K, as results have shown -- there you are gonna need PW removal and counterspells quite often over the course of 9 rounds.
i doubt it theres only 12 commonly played (and might soon bee played) cards that misstep works on 2-3 are burn so hey you still lose two. 3 of them are discard so hey ether pay one U to counter it pay two to counter it or just take the discard and keep the dead card.3 are creatures, glint hawk (which sees play in only quest), goblin guide which you just spent two life turn 0 to prevent two dmg and a possible 8th card, and the last one hex parasite, well mana leak is prob a better option. the rest being draw spells and basic utility spells what seriously a spell pirce is better ojust let them have that preordain. at most in standard misstep will see sb play. misstep seems to be alot better in legacy
Sig and avy made the good folks at heros of the plane studios
quotes