This is my build I am gonna try and test once I get all the cards. I am going more for stock on planewalkers and spells than lots of creatures. Chandra + Volt Charge seems fun so I added 2 in the main. I didnt want a playset though thinking it would be inconsistent so I went with Brimstone Volley as another 2 of. Morbid should be really easy with Daybreak Ranger. Only thing i am worry about is my land count which is at 22. I kinda want 23 or 24. I might just put Kruin Outlaw to 2 and add another land. Its possible to take all them out for Elves for more mana acceleration.
I havent tested any of this yet so it might just flop lol.
I probably will end up doing that. Just wanna see how far the Chandra idea will go though before I take her out. I probably cut the Charges for the extra trail and/or volley or even another shock since it is such a situational play.
I ask them why the plunge and they say "Oh its for a turn 2 Outlaw, or a turn 3 Instigator gang". But then I see to do that by turn 3 they have only 2 cards in hand, and I am sitting on two incinerates, and I just burn the gang on one turn, burn the gang on another, an then they are left with no hand, and on the field I have a Mayor, and in the following turns I drop Outlaw, and Gang and I swing for the win by turn 6.
Then they go and say they "Combo'd" out and that I was lucky that I won. How is playing Lunge then Outlaw Comboing out?
This just fully proves to me that Werewolves are NOT aggro, and should never be played as such. I mean those decks were really, really really bad. And it was two separate people with that list. Makes me wonder if they got the list from somewhere, and if they did, who in there right mind would think that was a good idea.
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"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
Oh, control is the meta eh? (before looking at that, I want you to think about how you just defined an entire metagame of Magic:The Gathering after 1 SCG Open and the Philladelphia Grudge match, and think about how utterly ridiculous it is that you claim you realize the metagame right now and how you think FMR completely counters it since it's "all control" (lol at all top 8 decks being control RIGHT?!?))
On the top 8 of that list, 4 are control: Solar Flare, RUG, U/B Control, U/W Blade. And if you're playtesting on MOL, you'll realize that Solar Flare is by far the deck to beat right now, not to mention the full of control on every other mini-champ you attend.
For anyone that is REALLY playtesting the deck, your statement is completely baseless, and i'm not sure if this kind of attitude will lead us to anything.
FMR is a must have into the deck, period. Going opposite is just going back to start. Not sure why we are even arguing about this card.
For statements like "Wolves are not aggro"!!!, "Enviroment is not control based", "Let's play Infernal Plunge to get a faster Kruin" (then get it removed, giving opponents CA), just shows me that the debate here won't improve the deck on anything.
Maybe when some other player piloting Wolves get a place in a competition, we netdeck his list and start from there (geez!).
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Namely, using Noxious Revival to get back Moonmist. I've created a deck that looks a lot like most other decks here, less some Daybreak Rangers and removal to include 4 Revivals and Moonmist. Also 4 Kessig Wolf Run. The game plan is to try to lose as few turns as possible waiting for my wolves to turn; get my wolves onto the field quickly (when appropriate) and attack as much as possible, even if it means turning back immediately (after playing Mayor & Moonmist on the same turn, for instance).
Unfortunately I can't actually start testing until later tonight, any thoughts?
Okay well while you guys stick with solidifying the RG decklist, I'm going to concentrate on ironing out RuG. It still seems really solid to me, especially with the turn 4 wins that Phyrexian Metamorph can give me. Turn 2 Mayor, flips, Turn 3 Phyrexian Metamorph, Turn 4 win. Here's the decklist I'm gonna playtest with for a while.
I don't have the sideboard built just yet, but I have 3 Ancient Grudges, 3 Full Moon's Rise, the 4th mana leak and negate. Not too sure what to fill it in with just yet. This is my first attempt at trying the list bobwayne's way, with FMR in the side and with a burn in it's place. I actually beat RDW with it. Mayhaps that's because I haven't got hit with a Hero of Oxid Ridge yet...
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"I will show you...the greatest nightmare!" - Nightmare, Soul Calibur 2
In 10 matches, I've got the combo 3 times in 10 matches. Albeit it takes some luck, like the opponent not having a 2/3rd turn drop, but it still works with like a turn 5 moonmist or something of the like.
I've just learned that Solar Flare is the deck to beat. Either you win fast, or you don't win. Elesh Norn whomps this deck into oblivion. The counter magic also seems to do okay against this. It blocks the Unburial Rites for at least a turn, and hopefully that's all you need.
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"I will show you...the greatest nightmare!" - Nightmare, Soul Calibur 2
so if you're not running black, consider sword of feast and famine as quite possibly the 2nd best card in the deck, only behind moonmist. this is because you can wear them out of cards to make transformation easier, then lock them to 1 card in hand each turn so they can't transform your werewolves back. each turn they draw a land, all your werewolves transform. it's awesome.
i've found that supplementing this with black discard like liliana, mind rot, and despise gives you a lot more control over your wolves by reducing your opponent's control over them. this is essential for competitive play since the most important part of playing werewolves is making them into werewolves and keeping them there. red and green have very few ways to interact with the opponent to help this.
On the top 8 of that list, 4 are control: Solar Flare, RUG, U/B Control, U/W Blade. And if you're playtesting on MOL, you'll realize that Solar Flare is by far the deck to beat right now, not to mention the full of control on every other mini-champ you attend.
For anyone that is REALLY playtesting the deck, your statement is completely baseless, and i'm not sure if this kind of attitude will lead us to anything.
FMR is a must have into the deck, period. Going opposite is just going back to start. Not sure why we are even arguing about this card.
For statements like "Wolves are not aggro"!!!, "Enviroment is not control based", "Let's play Infernal Plunge to get a faster Kruin" (then get it removed, giving opponents CA), just shows me that the debate here won't improve the deck on anything.
Maybe when some other player piloting Wolves get a place in a competition, we netdeck his list and start from there (geez!).
Oh, you mean like Patrick Chapin? The innovator? Someone that creates decklists as a job essentially?
The person with ZERO FULL MOON'S RISE?
Yeah guys, yeah. Let's netdeck that and start there.
I ask them why the plunge and they say "Oh its for a turn 2 Outlaw, or a turn 3 Instigator gang". But then I see to do that by turn 3 they have only 2 cards in hand, and I am sitting on two incinerates, and I just burn the gang on one turn, burn the gang on another, an then they are left with no hand, and on the field I have a Mayor, and in the following turns I drop Outlaw, and Gang and I swing for the win by turn 6.
Then they go and say they "Combo'd" out and that I was lucky that I won. How is playing Lunge then Outlaw Comboing out?
This just fully proves to me that Werewolves are NOT aggro, and should never be played as such. I mean those decks were really, really really bad. And it was two separate people with that list. Makes me wonder if they got the list from somewhere, and if they did, who in there right mind would think that was a good idea.
Too bad we are some of the only voices of reason in this thread, because sadly this will keep continuing.
I wasn't even going to post anymore in this thread, because when/if I Top 32 with my list, I just want to come back and post it and not even have any other words with it.
I know FMR is a bad card. Keep playing it if you want, less competition for me. Xover and I will play a good version of werewolves while you do that, okay?
P.S. Saying U/W blade and RUG are control decks shows EXACTLY how you know nothing of deck building.
Saying Caw-Blade was a control deck ALSO shows me that you know nothing. RUG has ALWAYS been midrange, just because there are counter spells doesn't mean it's control, k? Blade has ALWAYS been a tempo deck. That's what it's called. A tempo deck. Now it's pushing even more towards midrange with Geist-Blade. Also, please, PLEASE count the showings of those decks compared to the top 2 (mono red), illusions, humans, G/W tokens, and wolf-run red, kay? Then come back and tell me you know something about the metagame, because I will once again tell you that you don't.
Man, I just can't stop editing this post because I just can't get over how you just keep trying to refute my statements with ZERO evidence. Here's the actual top 8 decklists since this guy wants to lie to try and show he's the best, k?
Mono Red 1st place David Doberne StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Mono Red 2nd place Scott Tompkins StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
U/W Illusions3rd place Todd Anderson StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
U/W Blade 4th place Ricky Allaer StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
U/W Aggro 5th place Court Schuett StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Tempered Steel 6th place Greg Norris StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Tempered Steel 7th place Ari Lax StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Solar Flare 8th place William Allman StarCityGames.com Standard Open
SOLAR FLARE, DECK TO BEAT! So many control decks!!! How will our wolves ever get through the field of countless control decks?
What I posted wasn't a list of top 8, it was a count of the SHOWING of decks, you know Solar Flare-6 Mono Red-5 etc. etc. and I guess you didn't even SEE the top 8 since you said RUG was in it (wasn't even close) and U/B control. So you've been talking about a top 8 you've obviously never even seen, and yet you think bringing out these baseless arguments will prove me wrong when I've posted TIME AND TIME again on this thread showing WHY it's a bad card BECAUSE of the results I just posted, BECAUSE professional magic players agree with me, and BECAUSE I have played the deck more than you have and I know that it is a bad card after reaching close to 70 tests with the deck.
In the top 20 for the SCG open, there were 4 control decks (probably to you at least, 3 solar flare and 1 U/B Tezz, which I don't count because it relies on infect and artifacts far too much). RUG wasn't in the top 20. U/B control wasn't in the top 20. I don't even know what you were referring to in your post because this has been the ONLY major tournament other than the grudge match, which didn't have as many people as it did at the open.
so if you're not running black, consider sword of feast and famine as quite possibly the 2nd best card in the deck, only behind moonmist. this is because you can wear them out of cards to make transformation easier, then lock them to 1 card in hand each turn so they can't transform your werewolves back. each turn they draw a land, all your werewolves transform. it's awesome.
i've found that supplementing this with black discard like liliana, mind rot, and despise gives you a lot more control over your wolves by reducing your opponent's control over them. this is essential for competitive play since the most important part of playing werewolves is making them into werewolves and keeping them there. red and green have very few ways to interact with the opponent to help this.
In all honesty black lasks ways to interact with your opponents to help flip ur wolves either. The format has 1. Single 1 drop for hand disroption. The next best two are both double black in the costs, and 1 of them makes you discard as well. The aman base would be horrendous especially since one of your best werewolves is a double red. Using mind rot competes with playing daybreak ranger, and kruin, and it would also copete with liliana.
If black had better hand disruption I would be all for it, but it is horrible right now
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"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
I am obviously playing a burn heavy deck. One major thing that is different is the Shrine's in the deck. I haven't had a chance to test this version out yet but I am going to be able to soon and I'll let you know the results.
Things I'm thinking:
Could Stromkirk Noble have a place in the deck until Dark ascension brings us more 1 drops?
Should I take out shock to fit another Brimstone Volley and moonmist?
Is Incinerate better than shock in this deck?
How can I fit in Ancient Grudge into the sideboard?
I am obviously playing a burn heavy deck. One major thing that is different is the Shrine's in the deck. I haven't had a chance to test this version out yet but I am going to be able to soon and I'll let you know the results.
Things I'm thinking:
Could Stromkirk Noble have a place in the deck until Dark ascension brings us more 1 drops?
Should I take out shock to fit another Brimstone Volley and moonmist?
Is Incinerate better than shock in this deck?
How can I fit in Ancient Grudge into the sideboard?
Any criticism is welcome.
why the shrine? if u want room for the grudge..id swap those out..but add the grudge to the SB of course..u could MB the FMR..
why the shrine? if u want room for the grudge..id swap those out..but add the grudge to the SB of course..u could MB the FMR..
It's one of the "new additions" to the deck that I haven't had a chance to test as of yet. I am fairly certain it's just a "win more" card however, on the occasions that I lose, my opponent usually has 5 life or so left and I just need that last bit of reach to get through. Not too many decks run answers to the Shrine so I thought it would be a beautiful card due to the large quantities of red spells that I have in this deck.
As a disclaimer, I haven't playtested much, and I'm no pro at this game by any means, so feel free to ignore me.
I'm not sure I like shrine too much, to be honest. IMO you could go one of two ways with this:
More burns - As in, replace the three Shrines with two shocks and a brimstone volley.
More creatures - Try 3 Phyrexian Metamorphs maybe? Copying an Outlaw or a Mayor and having them never flip is so good (if you copy a werewolf card on it's werewolf side, the copy will never untransform).
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The not good MTG player.
Everyone should go play Skullgirls when it comes out: www.skullgirls.com
I actually kind of like the idea of Shrine of Burning Rage in the deck, I think it can work, giving the deck a little more reach. I would not put it in as of right now, but in the future it might be a possibility.
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"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
@Rorshock
I like the more burns approach but Shrines are turning out to be 5+ damage consistently which is equal to what I end up getting out of Brimstone Volley so I see them as two sides of the same coin.
I do however really like the idea of a phyrexian metamorph on a mayor. I have been considering taking out the instigator gangs for them but I haven't been gutsy enough to do it yet.
@Xover
I'm really starting to think the shrines in the deck will be a serious win condition with how much red we actually play in the deck. At the very worst it's 1 damage every turn that it's out which adds up fast when all the burn spells, waifs and outlaws are added in.
@Rorshock
I like the more burns approach but Shrines are turning out to be 5+ damage consistently which is equal to what I end up getting out of Brimstone Volley so I see them as two sides of the same coin.
I do however really like the idea of a phyrexian metamorph on a mayor. I have been considering taking out the instigator gangs for them but I haven't been gutsy enough to do it yet.
@Xover
I'm really starting to think the shrines in the deck will be a serious win condition with how much red we actually play in the deck. At the very worst it's 1 damage every turn that it's out which adds up fast when all the burn spells, waifs and outlaws are added in.
Yeah the version I run, runs 21 red spells, compared to 16 green spells so it could very much work. The issue is what do I take out, because I very much want my 22 creatures, and my burn spells, which means that I might cut the garruks to run them. That in itself is a very tough call because Garrul has been a very very very very very good card in my deck. I would have to do some massive testing with different builds to see if I really need it or if it is really a Win more card like you were alluding.
tough, tough decision.
This would most likely be my deck list with them in
"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
Yeah the version I run, runs 21 red spells, compared to 16 green spells so it could very much work. The issue is what do I take out, because I very much want my 22 creatures, and my burn spells, which means that I might cut the garruks to run them. That in itself is a very tough call because Garrul has been a very very very very very good card in my deck. I would have to do some massive testing with different builds to see if I really need it or if it is really a Win more card like you were alluding.
tough, tough decision.
This would most likely be my deck list with them in
Still kind of iffy on it but cannot knock it until I test it
This is probably wrong, but I was just thinking, is going from 22 to 20 creatures really that big a deal? 10% loss of creatures I guess is meaningful, but Gatstaf is not that great a card anyway is he?
Does the Shrine not just water the deck down a little? We are pretty "all in" as it were with the wolves, and they need all the support they can get. Does a deck this fragile really have space for a card like that? Exception being burn spells for controlling the opponent's critters, of course. Feels like Shrine is almost trying to create an alternate win condition of sorts.
Got my cards in today. Played 3 practice games. So far only two observations.
I absolutely love the transform mechanic. It creates another facet to an already great game, almost like a built in mini-game. And when those wolves flip over, I felt like it was time for the theme music you hear in action shows/animation to start playing.
Also, I know I had read it in this thread before, but it's just a whole new kinda awesome to actually see Kruin and Gang work together. Swing in with a 3/3 and 5/5 and win the entire friggin' game. Two dudes, one swing, 20 to 0 - the end.
Yeah, it's going to be tough getting them to the point where it's consistent/reliable, but I am sure on board with doing my part to make it happen.
Yeah the version I run, runs 21 red spells, compared to 16 green spells so it could very much work. The issue is what do I take out, because I very much want my 22 creatures, and my burn spells, which means that I might cut the garruks to run them. That in itself is a very tough call because Garrul has been a very very very very very good card in my deck. I would have to do some massive testing with different builds to see if I really need it or if it is really a Win more card like you were alluding.
tough, tough decision.
This would most likely be my deck list with them in
Still kind of iffy on it but cannot knock it until I test it
I would drop the 2 gatstaf..and re-add the garruk..im pretty sure that is what u said u lost to add the shrines..id also say only at most 3 instigators ..id -1 instigator +1 shock..
I would drop the 2 gatstaf..and re-add the garruk..im pretty sure that is what u said u lost to add the shrines..id also say only at most 3 instigators ..id -1 instigator +1 shock..
Garstafs when transformed have been ridiculous for me so far so its hard seeing them go, but you may be right. I do like running no less than 20 creatures though so Instigators will stay in as a 4 of. I am never mad when I draw them, but going to a 2 of garruk or just maybe a 2 of shock might be better for curve sake. Never have been dissapointed when I have drawn them and replacing a 2 drop creature with a 1 one drop burn spell might be better. Or maybe go 2 of Gatstaf, 2 of Intigator, 2 of shock and problem solved maybe.
Again very tough choice. But I have done about 3 matches with shrines and they are kind of ridiculous. People worry about Board wipes in this deck and hey Shrines are a pretty damn good answer to them. Oh wipe my board nice. I have 6 lands, a shrine with 4 counters on it, my up keep, 2 shocks and your at 7 life. Nice.
I had someone rage quit today when he saw me play turn 1 Waif, turn 2 Shrine of Burning rage, turn 3 Kruin Outlaw, turn 4 Incinerate, Moonmist. may have been a little overkill but. Said shrines with Werewolves were not fair and just up and quit. It was kind of funny.
"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
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4 Birds of Paradise
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Reckless Waif
3 Kruin Outlaw
3 Daybreak Ranger
Spells:
4 Incinerate
3 Shock
3 Moonmist
2 Brimstone Volley
2 Volt Charge
2 Arc Trail
2 Chandra, the Firebrand
2 Garruk Relentless
Land
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Rootbound Crag
5 Forest
7 Mountain
This is my build I am gonna try and test once I get all the cards. I am going more for stock on planewalkers and spells than lots of creatures. Chandra + Volt Charge seems fun so I added 2 in the main. I didnt want a playset though thinking it would be inconsistent so I went with Brimstone Volley as another 2 of. Morbid should be really easy with Daybreak Ranger. Only thing i am worry about is my land count which is at 22. I kinda want 23 or 24. I might just put Kruin Outlaw to 2 and add another land. Its possible to take all them out for Elves for more mana acceleration.
I havent tested any of this yet so it might just flop lol.
-2 Chandra, the firebrand
+2 land
+1 arc trail
+1 brimstone volley
Standard:
:sympw::sympr:Metalcraft:sympw::sympr:
RGWerewolvesRG
Extended:
GWExtended ElvesGW
RGWNayaRGW
I probably will end up doing that. Just wanna see how far the Chandra idea will go though before I take her out. I probably cut the Charges for the extra trail and/or volley or even another shock since it is such a situational play.
And When I saw this I was like WHY!?!?!?!
Ok Birds of Paradise I understand, but Infernal Plunge Really???
I ask them why the plunge and they say "Oh its for a turn 2 Outlaw, or a turn 3 Instigator gang". But then I see to do that by turn 3 they have only 2 cards in hand, and I am sitting on two incinerates, and I just burn the gang on one turn, burn the gang on another, an then they are left with no hand, and on the field I have a Mayor, and in the following turns I drop Outlaw, and Gang and I swing for the win by turn 6.
Then they go and say they "Combo'd" out and that I was lucky that I won. How is playing Lunge then Outlaw Comboing out?
This just fully proves to me that Werewolves are NOT aggro, and should never be played as such. I mean those decks were really, really really bad. And it was two separate people with that list. Makes me wonder if they got the list from somewhere, and if they did, who in there right mind would think that was a good idea.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
On the top 8 of that list, 4 are control: Solar Flare, RUG, U/B Control, U/W Blade. And if you're playtesting on MOL, you'll realize that Solar Flare is by far the deck to beat right now, not to mention the full of control on every other mini-champ you attend.
For anyone that is REALLY playtesting the deck, your statement is completely baseless, and i'm not sure if this kind of attitude will lead us to anything.
FMR is a must have into the deck, period. Going opposite is just going back to start. Not sure why we are even arguing about this card.
For statements like "Wolves are not aggro"!!!, "Enviroment is not control based", "Let's play Infernal Plunge to get a faster Kruin" (then get it removed, giving opponents CA), just shows me that the debate here won't improve the deck on anything.
Maybe when some other player piloting Wolves get a place in a competition, we netdeck his list and start from there (geez!).
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/sf/163
Namely, using Noxious Revival to get back Moonmist. I've created a deck that looks a lot like most other decks here, less some Daybreak Rangers and removal to include 4 Revivals and Moonmist. Also 4 Kessig Wolf Run. The game plan is to try to lose as few turns as possible waiting for my wolves to turn; get my wolves onto the field quickly (when appropriate) and attack as much as possible, even if it means turning back immediately (after playing Mayor & Moonmist on the same turn, for instance).
Unfortunately I can't actually start testing until later tonight, any thoughts?
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Rootbound Crag
3 Sulfur Falls
3 Hinterland Harbor
2 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Mountain
3 Forest
1 Island
4 Reckless Waif
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Gatstaf Shepherd
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Kruin Outlaw
3 Instigator Gang
3 Mana Leak
3 Negate
3 Incinerate
4 Brimstone Volley
4 Moonmist
I don't have the sideboard built just yet, but I have 3 Ancient Grudges, 3 Full Moon's Rise, the 4th mana leak and negate. Not too sure what to fill it in with just yet. This is my first attempt at trying the list bobwayne's way, with FMR in the side and with a burn in it's place. I actually beat RDW with it. Mayhaps that's because I haven't got hit with a Hero of Oxid Ridge yet...
In your experience, how realistic is this?
Remember, kids: Never fight with Flashback, 'cause Flashback always wins.
In 10 matches, I've got the combo 3 times in 10 matches. Albeit it takes some luck, like the opponent not having a 2/3rd turn drop, but it still works with like a turn 5 moonmist or something of the like.
I've just learned that Solar Flare is the deck to beat. Either you win fast, or you don't win. Elesh Norn whomps this deck into oblivion. The counter magic also seems to do okay against this. It blocks the Unburial Rites for at least a turn, and hopefully that's all you need.
i've found that supplementing this with black discard like liliana, mind rot, and despise gives you a lot more control over your wolves by reducing your opponent's control over them. this is essential for competitive play since the most important part of playing werewolves is making them into werewolves and keeping them there. red and green have very few ways to interact with the opponent to help this.
Oh, you mean like Patrick Chapin? The innovator? Someone that creates decklists as a job essentially?
The person with ZERO FULL MOON'S RISE?
Yeah guys, yeah. Let's netdeck that and start there.
Too bad we are some of the only voices of reason in this thread, because sadly this will keep continuing.
I wasn't even going to post anymore in this thread, because when/if I Top 32 with my list, I just want to come back and post it and not even have any other words with it.
I know FMR is a bad card. Keep playing it if you want, less competition for me. Xover and I will play a good version of werewolves while you do that, okay?
P.S. Saying U/W blade and RUG are control decks shows EXACTLY how you know nothing of deck building.
Saying Caw-Blade was a control deck ALSO shows me that you know nothing. RUG has ALWAYS been midrange, just because there are counter spells doesn't mean it's control, k? Blade has ALWAYS been a tempo deck. That's what it's called. A tempo deck. Now it's pushing even more towards midrange with Geist-Blade. Also, please, PLEASE count the showings of those decks compared to the top 2 (mono red), illusions, humans, G/W tokens, and wolf-run red, kay? Then come back and tell me you know something about the metagame, because I will once again tell you that you don't.
Man, I just can't stop editing this post because I just can't get over how you just keep trying to refute my statements with ZERO evidence. Here's the actual top 8 decklists since this guy wants to lie to try and show he's the best, k?
Mono Red 1st place David Doberne StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Mono Red 2nd place Scott Tompkins StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
U/W Illusions3rd place Todd Anderson StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
U/W Blade 4th place Ricky Allaer StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
U/W Aggro 5th place Court Schuett StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Tempered Steel 6th place Greg Norris StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Tempered Steel 7th place Ari Lax StarCityGames.com Standard Open 2011-10-02 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Solar Flare 8th place William Allman StarCityGames.com Standard Open
SOLAR FLARE, DECK TO BEAT! So many control decks!!! How will our wolves ever get through the field of countless control decks?
What I posted wasn't a list of top 8, it was a count of the SHOWING of decks, you know Solar Flare-6 Mono Red-5 etc. etc. and I guess you didn't even SEE the top 8 since you said RUG was in it (wasn't even close) and U/B control. So you've been talking about a top 8 you've obviously never even seen, and yet you think bringing out these baseless arguments will prove me wrong when I've posted TIME AND TIME again on this thread showing WHY it's a bad card BECAUSE of the results I just posted, BECAUSE professional magic players agree with me, and BECAUSE I have played the deck more than you have and I know that it is a bad card after reaching close to 70 tests with the deck.
In the top 20 for the SCG open, there were 4 control decks (probably to you at least, 3 solar flare and 1 U/B Tezz, which I don't count because it relies on infect and artifacts far too much). RUG wasn't in the top 20. U/B control wasn't in the top 20. I don't even know what you were referring to in your post because this has been the ONLY major tournament other than the grudge match, which didn't have as many people as it did at the open.
In all honesty black lasks ways to interact with your opponents to help flip ur wolves either. The format has 1. Single 1 drop for hand disroption. The next best two are both double black in the costs, and 1 of them makes you discard as well. The aman base would be horrendous especially since one of your best werewolves is a double red. Using mind rot competes with playing daybreak ranger, and kruin, and it would also copete with liliana.
If black had better hand disruption I would be all for it, but it is horrible right now
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
4 x Reckless Waif
4 x Mayor of Avabruck
4 x Kruin Outlaw
2 x Instigator Gang
3 x Daybreak Ranger
2 x Hero of Oxid ridge
Spells: 16
3 x Moonmist
3 x Brimstone Volley
4 x Incinerate
2 x Shock
3 x Shrine of Burning Rage
2 x Garruk Relentless
Lands: 23
4 x Copperline Gorge
4 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Kessig Wolf Run
7 x Mountain
6 x Forest
2 x Kessig Cagebreaker
3 x Arc Trail
3 x Full Moon’s Rise
2 x Creeping Corrosion
3 x Beast within
2 x Nihil Spellbomb
I am obviously playing a burn heavy deck. One major thing that is different is the Shrine's in the deck. I haven't had a chance to test this version out yet but I am going to be able to soon and I'll let you know the results.
Things I'm thinking:
Could Stromkirk Noble have a place in the deck until Dark ascension brings us more 1 drops?
Should I take out shock to fit another Brimstone Volley and moonmist?
Is Incinerate better than shock in this deck?
How can I fit in Ancient Grudge into the sideboard?
Any criticism is welcome.
why the shrine? if u want room for the grudge..id swap those out..but add the grudge to the SB of course..u could MB the FMR..
It's one of the "new additions" to the deck that I haven't had a chance to test as of yet. I am fairly certain it's just a "win more" card however, on the occasions that I lose, my opponent usually has 5 life or so left and I just need that last bit of reach to get through. Not too many decks run answers to the Shrine so I thought it would be a beautiful card due to the large quantities of red spells that I have in this deck.
As a disclaimer, I haven't playtested much, and I'm no pro at this game by any means, so feel free to ignore me.
I'm not sure I like shrine too much, to be honest. IMO you could go one of two ways with this:
More burns - As in, replace the three Shrines with two shocks and a brimstone volley.
More creatures - Try 3 Phyrexian Metamorphs maybe? Copying an Outlaw or a Mayor and having them never flip is so good (if you copy a werewolf card on it's werewolf side, the copy will never untransform).
Everyone should go play Skullgirls when it comes out:
www.skullgirls.com
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
I like the more burns approach but Shrines are turning out to be 5+ damage consistently which is equal to what I end up getting out of Brimstone Volley so I see them as two sides of the same coin.
I do however really like the idea of a phyrexian metamorph on a mayor. I have been considering taking out the instigator gangs for them but I haven't been gutsy enough to do it yet.
@Xover
I'm really starting to think the shrines in the deck will be a serious win condition with how much red we actually play in the deck. At the very worst it's 1 damage every turn that it's out which adds up fast when all the burn spells, waifs and outlaws are added in.
Yeah the version I run, runs 21 red spells, compared to 16 green spells so it could very much work. The issue is what do I take out, because I very much want my 22 creatures, and my burn spells, which means that I might cut the garruks to run them. That in itself is a very tough call because Garrul has been a very very very very very good card in my deck. I would have to do some massive testing with different builds to see if I really need it or if it is really a Win more card like you were alluding.
tough, tough decision.
This would most likely be my deck list with them in
4 Reckless Waif
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Kruin Outlaw
4 Daybreak Ranger
4 Instigator Gang
2 Gatstaf Shepherd
Artifacts (2)
2 Shrine of Burning Rage
Spells (13)
4 Moonmist
4 Brimstone Volley
3 Incinerate
2 Shock
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Kessig Wolf-Run
7 Mountain
6 Forest
3 Full Moon's Rise
2 Dismember
2 Arc Trail
2 Beast Within
2 Naturalize
2 Torpor Orb
2 Creeping Corrosion
Still kind of iffy on it but cannot knock it until I test it
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
This is probably wrong, but I was just thinking, is going from 22 to 20 creatures really that big a deal? 10% loss of creatures I guess is meaningful, but Gatstaf is not that great a card anyway is he?
Does the Shrine not just water the deck down a little? We are pretty "all in" as it were with the wolves, and they need all the support they can get. Does a deck this fragile really have space for a card like that? Exception being burn spells for controlling the opponent's critters, of course. Feels like Shrine is almost trying to create an alternate win condition of sorts.
I absolutely love the transform mechanic. It creates another facet to an already great game, almost like a built in mini-game. And when those wolves flip over, I felt like it was time for the theme music you hear in action shows/animation to start playing.
Also, I know I had read it in this thread before, but it's just a whole new kinda awesome to actually see Kruin and Gang work together. Swing in with a 3/3 and 5/5 and win the entire friggin' game. Two dudes, one swing, 20 to 0 - the end.
Yeah, it's going to be tough getting them to the point where it's consistent/reliable, but I am sure on board with doing my part to make it happen.
I would drop the 2 gatstaf..and re-add the garruk..im pretty sure that is what u said u lost to add the shrines..id also say only at most 3 instigators ..id -1 instigator +1 shock..
Garstafs when transformed have been ridiculous for me so far so its hard seeing them go, but you may be right. I do like running no less than 20 creatures though so Instigators will stay in as a 4 of. I am never mad when I draw them, but going to a 2 of garruk or just maybe a 2 of shock might be better for curve sake. Never have been dissapointed when I have drawn them and replacing a 2 drop creature with a 1 one drop burn spell might be better. Or maybe go 2 of Gatstaf, 2 of Intigator, 2 of shock and problem solved maybe.
Again very tough choice. But I have done about 3 matches with shrines and they are kind of ridiculous. People worry about Board wipes in this deck and hey Shrines are a pretty damn good answer to them. Oh wipe my board nice. I have 6 lands, a shrine with 4 counters on it, my up keep, 2 shocks and your at 7 life. Nice.
I had someone rage quit today when he saw me play turn 1 Waif, turn 2 Shrine of Burning rage, turn 3 Kruin Outlaw, turn 4 Incinerate, Moonmist. may have been a little overkill but. Said shrines with Werewolves were not fair and just up and quit. It was kind of funny.
So new update to the deck
4 Reckless Waif
4 Kruin Outlaw
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Daybreak Ranger
3 Instigator Gang
2 Gatstaf Sheperd
Artifacts (2)
2 Shrine of Burning Rage
Spells (14)
4 Moonmist
4 Brimstone Volley
3 Incinerate
3 Shock
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Kessig Wolf-Run
7 mountain
6 Forest
3 Full Moon's Rise
2 Dismember
2 Arc Trail
2 Beast Within
2 Naturalize
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Torpor Orb
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"