Never to early to start discussing power level and pick hierarchy.
Path to Exile - W
Instant (Uncommon)
Remove target creature from the game. Its controller may search his or her library for a basic land card, put it into play tapped, then shuffle his or her library.
Obviously a high pick. Extra nasty on pesky unearthers. I don't see the drawback as being particularly bad. Early game maybe, but late game not so much. First pickable.
Scepter of Dominance - 1WW
Artifact (Uncommon)
{W}, {T}: Tap target permanent.
Tapping down is the next best thing to removal. The double white keeps it out of splash players hands (or should). I pick Naya BM and Sticher first from time to time, and wouldn't have a problem doing the same with this if the pack dictated it to be the best choice.
Wall of Reverence - 3W
Creature - Wall (Rare)
Defender, flying
At the end of your turn, gain life equal to the power of a creature you control.
1/6
This card seems like a real pain in it. It stops all fliers in the format, gains its controller at least 1 life per turn, and often more. And I'm not keen on using what little removal can hit take care of it, on it. How high should you take a pain in the ass? I'm not sure its first worthy yet. But all those reasons make it tempting.
Scepter of Insight - 1UU
Artifact (Uncommon)
{3}{U}, {T}: Draw a card.
A little slow, CC on par with Jayemdae Tome Card Advantage wins games, the boost from this card is invaluable late game. 3rd-4th.
Unsummon - U
Instant (Common)
Return target creature to its owner's hand.
Cheap solid bounce. How high are these picked in 10th?
Worldly Counsel - 1U
Instant (Common) Domain - Look at the top X cards of your library, where X is the number of basic land types among lands you control. Put one of those cards into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library.
I didn't play limited during Invasion, but this looks like a flimsy spell. I'm not a fan of putting anything on the bottom of my library willingly.
Scepter of Fugue - BB
Artifact (Uncommon)
{1}{B}, {T}: Target player discards a card. Play this ability only during your turn.
Colored Disrupting Scepter. There are much better things to do with your mana early game, when you would want to utilize this. Late game it's almost worthless. Unless your opponent stalls on land and can't drop their high CC cards.
Sedraxis Alchemist - 2B
Creature - Zombie Wizard (Uncommon)
When Sedraxis Alchemist comes into play, if you control a blue permanent, you may return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand.
2/2
Tempo screw at three spot is great. Comes on a creature is better. Optimally on turn 3 puts you in a great spot. LA little less powerful late game, but will still screw with your opponents. 5th-7th
Fiery Fall deals 5 damage to target creature.
Instant (Common)
Basic landcycling {1}{R} ({1}{R}, Discard this card: Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.)
A great new ability on a great removal spell. I can't see myself ever cycling this, but it may happen. High pick Naya fat killer. First in most cases.
Might of Alara - G
Instant (Common) Domain - Target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn for each basic land type among lands you control.
Unlike Counsel, this card looks wonderful. Easily becomes Giant Growth, and if not, we all played Gather Courage without convoke from time to time.
Exploding Borders - 2RG
Sorcery (Common)
Search your library for a basic land card and put that card into play tapped. Then shuffle your library. Domain - Exploding Borders deals X damage to target player, where X is the number of basic land types among lands you control.
Looks to slow. Does the Domain ability trigger after the land is in play? Regardless, slow. I want to do something better on t4.
Fusion Elemental - WUBRG
Creature - Elemental (Uncommon) Fusion Elemental is like riding a pony, which probably doesn't sound dangerous, except that in this case the pony is 300 feet tall and covered in chainsaws, and to get on the pony you have to take an elevator with sixteen live cougars.
8/8
Can I get verification on that flavor text? If you have a nuts 5C.dec going, is vanillia 8/8 what you need? I don't know how to take this card at the moment.
Outlander Cycle
Pro colors bears are fine. Filler/SB creatures of course.
Mana Cylix - 1
Artifact (Common)
{1}, {T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Fixing is fixing. This card is percicly what you need when you can't pull that early third color. Take them when you see them.
Obelisk of Alara - 6
Artifact (Rare)
{1}{W}, {T}: You gain 5 life.
{1}{U}, {T}: Draw a card, then discard a card.
{1}{B}, {T}: Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
{1}{R}, {T}: Obelisk of Alara deals 3 damage to target player.
{1}{G}, {T}: Target creature gets +4/+4 until end of turn.
Nuts. Compeletey nuts. Slam it.
Exotic Orchard
Land (Rare)
{T}: Add to your mana pool one mana of any color that a land an opponent controls could produce.
Dear WOTC, check my FCC submissions, kthx. Good card, another high pick, seeing as we take shardlands high.
I can't completely tell without looking at the other cards in Conflux, but I think you're REALLY undervaluing Path to Exile. This isn't just 'first pickable', it's very very easily first pick. It's a 1 mana INSTANT SPEED removal that gets rid of absolutely everything that it can target without the other effects attached to the card such as Unearth, Sprouting Thrinax, etc. Way better than Fiery Fall at the very least.
1 mana. Removed from game. INSTANT.
The drawback can even be used to your advantage early game when you can really use that land by casting it on your own creature with combat damage on. Mana accel/fixing on their turn? Cool. By that same reasoning, it's definitely not a 'use on anything' removal early game but you can easily 2-for-1 a lot of times to make up for it.
path to exile is pretty average in limited. rampant growthing your opponent in this format is kind of a big deal. Also, the cost of a removal spell isn't entirely relevant in limited (as shown by fiery fall).
I don't see the drawback as being particularly bad.
Don't forget the drawback also colour-fixes the opponent. That could be quite bad. (Not that it stops the spell being occasionally first-pickable, but it might make it quite challenging to work out when to cast it.)
I pick Naya BM and Sticher first from time to time, and wouldn't have a problem doing the same with this if the pack dictated it to be the best choice.
I wouldn't have a problem first picking Jhessian Lookout if the pack dictated it to be the best choice.
See what you did there?
How high should you take a pain in the ass? I'm not sure its first worthy yet.
Windmill slam first pick! Look at it this way: what if Clearwater Goblet had flying and could block?
I'm not a fan of putting anything on the bottom of my library willingly.
Would you be happier if it read "Look at the bottom X cards of your library, where X is the number of basic land types among lands you control. Put one of those cards into your hand and the rest back on the bottom of your library."?
(Hint: that's the same card in the vast majority of cases. When it isn't, it's usually worse!)
Tempo screw at three spot is great. Comes on a creature is better.
"Comes on a creature" is what makes it a tempo boost. You wouldn't play Resounding Wave on turn three, would you?
The real question with this card is how relevant a vanilla 2/2 will be, since that determines its power level. Ogre Savant was great in RGD since it could often be persuaded to actually hit. Failing that it could often block in a relevant way.
I also quite like the potential interaction with Call to Heel, but since the Alchemist isn't a Common I don't expect it to come up often.
I can't see myself ever cycling this, but it may happen.
Gary Wise once remarked that far too few players were prepared to play Skinthinner face up on turn two. Same applies here: people will hold onto it too much when they should be using it to pre-emptively cycle out of potential manascrew.
Red is so silly. Not a great card.
These are the interesting ones, though! Clearly not great, but is it playable? Such spells are in some formats. With Unsummon in the format I'm not liking its chances, but at two power with Haste for two mana it cannot be immediately ruled out of contention.
Looks to slow. Does the Domain ability trigger after the land is in play? Regardless, slow. I want to do something better on t4.
Yes, slow... But wait! If this card is bad it will go late and could form the basis of an entire archetype! This could be very cool!
Get three colours out. Explode Borders you for four. Explode borders again for five later. Now my 5C deck only has to do eleven damage to finish you, on top of which I have all my colours!
Not 100% sure it's viable, but I definitely want to try that!
I don't know how to take this card at the moment.
I think it's pretty obviously not a high pick even for 5C. If 5C is so strong that everyone wants it you'll be too busy picking your fixing and hoovering up the best splashable stuff from all five colours to worry about cards like this. And if 5C isn't massively overdrafted then one of the signals that it's open will be getting stuff like this late.
My guess is that if I saw one P2/P1 when I was in 5C it would be correct to try to table it.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the rest of the Basic Landcycler cycle. If they're half as strong as the Red one they're going to be critical to the format. (Though maybe the smart money would be on the White one saying "Gain 6 life"! ;))
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Don't forget the drawback also colour-fixes the opponent. That could be quite bad. (Not that it stops the spell being occasionally first-pickable, but it might make it quite challenging to work out when to cast it.)
I'd never cast this if I saw my opponent stalled on two colors. That casting cost is an illusion.Its important to note that this is WHITE land search (and accel at EOOT) if need be. Pricey, but relevant. I'll tank my Squire to enable War Monk drop.
Windmill slam first pick! Look at it this way: what if Clearwater Goblet had flying and could block?
No MD5 experience. MOL days started at CHK.
Would you be happier if it read "Look at the bottom X cards of your library, where X is the number of basic land types among lands you control. Put one of those cards into your hand and the rest back on the bottom of your library."?
(Hint: that's the same card in the vast majority of cases. When it isn't, it's usually worse!)
That sounds like a way better card actually.
Gary Wise once remarked that far too few players were prepared to play Skinthinner face up on turn two. Same applies here: people will hold onto it too much when they should be using it to pre-emptively cycle out of potential manascrew.
Hold out till turn 4 if you can. Max.
These are the interesting ones, though! Clearly not great, but is it playable? Such spells are in some formats. With Unsummon in the format I'm not liking its chances, but at two power with Haste for two mana it cannot be immediately ruled out of contention.
What haste? What 2 power? It's an enchantment.
Yes, slow... But wait! If this card is bad it will go late and could form the basis of an entire archetype! This could be very cool!
Get three colours out. Explode Borders you for four. Explode borders again for five later. Now my 5C deck only has to do eleven damage to finish you, on top of which I have all my colours!
Not 100% sure it's viable, but I definitely want to try that!
That's pushing some boundaries. I dunno. It take sup the 4 spot, which is lacking in numbers in the first place.
I think it's pretty obviously not a high pick even for 5C. If 5C is so strong that everyone wants it you'll be too busy picking your fixing and hoovering up the best splashable stuff from all five colours to worry about cards like this. And if 5C isn't massively overdrafted then one of the signals that it's open will be getting stuff like this late.
My guess is that if I saw one P2/P1 when I was in 5C it would be correct to try to table it.
Agreed
Random letters because message was to short: iluahgfgfigbf
People seem to be OK with Mana Cylix. To me, it looks like an only slightly improved Lush Growth. What am I missing? It's still a one-mana investment for just fixing, not acceleration. How is it THAT much better than the unplayable trash that is Lush Growth, in a Bant deck for example?
Pseudofate, regarding Worldly Counsel, unless you've manipulated your deck in some way during the game, putting cards on the bottom of your library is a zero sum game. Think of a shuffled, unmanipulated deck as a black box full of cards. Whenever you draw a card, reach into the box without looking and pick whatever card you want. The order is irrelevant. The only time you lose with Worldly Counsel is when two of your best cards are on top...and in that case, you still get to draw the better one! I'd say in most cases, the card is about as good as Counsel of the Soratami. Yes, there are situations where one is better than the other, but on average, you probably get the same net benefit, since Counsel is pretty likely to draw at least one blank.
People seem to be OK with Mana Cylix. To me, it looks like an only slightly improved Lush Growth. What am I missing?
You're not entirely wrong, but the "slight improvement" is maybe a bit larger than you're giving it credit for.
Two key points:
1) Any one mana is enough to cast Cylix. Lush Growth only works if you already have :symg:.
2) Cylix gives you access to all colours (so up to +4), whereas Lush Growth only ever gives access to and (so at most +2 colours).
Factor in that Lush Growth is most likely just finding your splash colour the majority of the time (because you will relatively seldom have trouble finding a second main colour) and Lush Growth would be better off as a land of your splash colour (almost as much fixing, +1 mana source, cheaper to cast).
Cylix, by contrast, is worthwhile in decks running 4-5 colours as an easy and safe source of the 4th or 5th colour. People rating it highly are (not unreasonably) predicting a format in which this is commonplace.
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@Exploding Borders My guess is that if I saw one P2/P1 when I was in 5C it would be correct to try to table it.
Pack 2 Conflux? Will this be a sanctioned format? I thought it's always 1-1-2 (first set-first set-second set) or SSC? Is there something that says they'll be playing SCC?
People seem to be OK with Mana Cylix. To me, it looks like an only slightly improved Lush Growth. What am I missing? It's still a one-mana investment for just fixing, not acceleration. How is it THAT much better than the unplayable trash that is Lush Growth, in a Bant deck for example?
Pseudofate, regarding Worldly Counsel, unless you've manipulated your deck in some way during the game, putting cards on the bottom of your library is a zero sum game. Think of a shuffled, unmanipulated deck as a black box full of cards. Whenever you draw a card, reach into the box without looking and pick whatever card you want. The order is irrelevant. The only time you lose with Worldly Counsel is when two of your best cards are on top...and in that case, you still get to draw the better one! I'd say in most cases, the card is about as good as Counsel of the Soratami. Yes, there are situations where one is better than the other, but on average, you probably get the same net benefit, since Counsel is pretty likely to draw at least one blank.
I don't like Mana Cylix myself... however it does allow you fix ANY color (which Lush Growth doesn't) and doesn't provide for 2 for 1s. Lush Growth is awful... Mana Cylix is okay is 5c control. It'll make the Ultimatum's and splash spells more playable... I don't think it's a high pick unless you're desperate for mana fixing. However the one slot is really lite in this format (barring Naya=Nacatl or Bant=Squire) so it may be a fine card in the one slot.
I NEVER played Worldly Counsel-ever! However I'd play Counsel of the Soratami everyday. Maybe because of the domain theme the Worldly one will be better, but it's definitely not a high pick. Gift of the Gargantuan is more playable than Worldly and sometimes Gift doesn't even make the cut.
Nothing spoiled so far makes me think that SSC will play very differently than SSS other than archetype adjustments, so I can see Cylix replacing some Panoramas in the 4-5 color "Pick all the best cards" deck. Good point that in most cases, Lush Growth is about as good as throwing in a Mountain or Plains, and will often be worse than that. I still see Cylix as the kind of card you'd rather table than proactively draft, especially since you'll know going into Pack 3 just how much mana fixing help you'll need, and it's far from an auto-include.
Worldy Counsel basically cycles in the mid to late game. I admit now that it is not as good as Counsel, since Counsel is fine on Turn 3 (especially in slow Core Sets) but Counsel is not good in the early game. On second thought, I don't like it at all. Drawing one card in the late game and being worse in the early game is a bad deal.
Scepter of dominance - good card. About the right price, but 1WW means you can't splash for it. But much better than trip noose in white obviously.
Wall of reverence - Not just a 'pain in the ass'. It's a bomb. I think it's first pickable. Straight up. Hard to remove. A turn 4 creature that is hard to remove, and can win you races just by gaining you 2 or 3 or more every turn, or just put games out of reach that way... even if you don't block with it... plus it does block almost all flyers in the format.
Scepter of insight - yeah... about like Jayemdae Tome. Playable in the right deck, but not great card. Remember you've paid 7 mana before it's replaced itself.
Worldly counsel. Good card. It was better in invasion, but it's still good here. It's a weakened impulse, but picking best of 3 is good effect. In 5 color it's amazing.
Fiery fall - what does it cost though? If it land cycles for 1R, then I assume it's hella-expensive to cast.
Maniacal rage - Initially poo-pooed in Invasion block... but shortly after it came out... people were using it to wreck people with the right archetypes. +2/+2 enchantments are actually quite good in the right deck.
Might of Alara - good card.
Exploding borders - fetch a tapped land, then deal up to 5 damage? For 4 mana? Hmmmm... late game it's lava axe with accel... Midgame it's accel that deals no damage.
Probably playable as a mana fixer for domain, then if you're a domain deck, acts as a mini lava axe when you don't need fixing anymore. Only good in domain I think.
fusion elemental - not sure... domain 8/8 black body for 5 is good... but I dunno.
Pro color bears are insanely good in any format.
Cylix is good because it hits all colors, and costs colorless. Period. With fatestitcher, it's really really good in domain.
I'm definitely leery about the drawback on Path to Exile for limited. Lands are really good in limited. It's terrible early game and gets better as the game drags on, but it's cheap effective, and hits everything. It's going to get played, but I think there will be picks higher than it on color. I don't think I'll be drafting it often, because people are going to value it too highly initially.
All the Scepters are saucy, esp. the white and black ones. I'm sure I'm not the only one salivating about using the white one with Filligree Sages. The black one helps you deal with late game bombs, which is really important in this format, especially if you're playing something like BR aggro, where the card should be amazing.
Wall is stupid ridiculous. Think of it as removal (blocks almost anything) plus decent recurring free lifegain. Sign me up.
Unsummon will just be a lousy replacement for Call to Heel for Esper decks. Bant might like having a cheap creature removal spell though.
Counsel seems spicy in the five-color deck, which gets quite a bit stronger in Conflux. You're going to have to be picking your panoramas higher, because you lose a pack of them, but this card's significantly better than GotG, because you can fetch a spell too. It's probably worth it even if you're just playing three colors. Almost Impulse is still really good.
Sedraxis Alchemist suffers from the fact that there aren't a ton of good blue two drops (is Tidehollow Strix about it?), so he's not going to tempo your opponent overmuch. Still, blue likes racing with flyers, and he helps win that race, so he'll get played, even if he's not a high pick. If you have bounce spells, he's better.
People are not acknowledging how ridiculously amazing Fiery Fall is. Being able to cycle for any basic land is just stupid ridiculous for the five color deck. The added fact that it's not a dead topdeck lategame when your manabase is stabilized just makes it ridiculous. If I needed fixing going into the last pack, I could easily see first picking this.
Might of Alara is meh. You've already got Sigil Blessing and Res. Roar, which are both significantly better. The deck which optimizes this card, 5-color, has bigger creatures anyway, so it's not as significant. I'll be fine taking this as a giant growth in shard decks, but it should be in the midpicks.
Exploding Borders costs one more than it should. As is, you're only playing it if you really, really need the fixing. 90% of the time, you'd just rather be playing an obelisk a turn earlier.
Fusion Elemental is really, really good. Not hard to cast in five color and absolutely dominant when he hits. This is exactly the finisher five color wants.
The outlanders are absolutely amazing, especially in anything aggressive. There are so many multicolored creatures out there, they're almost always going to have pro-something-in-your-opponent's-deck. If I can cast them reliably, I'm happy picking these mid to high. Definitely significantly stronger than just filler.
Mana Cylix is crappy last ditch fixing in the last pack when you don't have enough. It will get played far more than it should, just because the amount of fixing decreases so much when we lose a pack of Alara (it seems).
Exotic Orchard is extremely sexy in 5-color, pretty mediocre in a standard shard deck. Just depends on the needs of your deck going into the last pack. High or mid pick.
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I don't think the Wall of Reverence is THAT ridiculous. I mean, I've played MD5 and alot of CCC, with Honden of the Cleansing Fire. Sure, it was ridiculous if you resolved a Goblet for 4 or 5 counters, that was pretty much impossible to race, and multiple Hondens were also similarly ridiculous. But I just don't see the wall gaining that much life. Maybe in Naya 5power+ archetype it would be quite good.
Also, Hondens were hard to remove, and Goblet wasn't usually played unless you can get at least 3 counters out of it. The wall is also a creature so that makes it not as durable. Is a 1/6 Flying Wall that gains 2-3 life per turn windmill slam first pick? I don't think so. I think it's a good card, but not THAT good.
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Sedraxis Alchemist suffers from the fact that there aren't a ton of good blue two drops (is Tidehollow Strix about it?), so he's not going to tempo your opponent overmuch. Still, blue likes racing with flyers, and he helps win that race, so he'll get played, even if he's not a high pick. If you have bounce spells, he's better.
Other two drops include deft duelist and maybe etherium sculptor and dont forget about the new outlanders...Also since this is draft even if you have to play it on turn four after a turn three Kathari Screecher, Esper Battlemage or Rhox War Monk there is just a better chance that your opponent played something that you could bounce
Other two drops include deft duelist and maybe etherium sculptor and dont forget about the new outlanders...Also since this is draft even if you have to play it on turn four after a turn three Kathari Screecher, Esper Battlemage or Rhox War Monk there is just a better chance that your opponent played something that you could bounce
There are 8 cards in ALA that could trigger Alchemist on t3
Is Turn 3 really the best time to be playing an Alchemist, even if you have a Blue creature?
If I'm going to bounce something, I want to:
1) Bounce something expensive, so that my opponent has to spend a whole turn re-playing it
2) Bounce something to let me get in a lethal or crippling attack
3) Create some kind of 2-for-1 (unlikely in this set, not many Auras)
I guess it can be good for your tempo to bounce something on Turn 3, but it's like a zero sum game because whatever your opponent plays next can probably block the 2/2 that you played on Turn 3.
I don't think Turn 3 tempo is the best use for the guy. Just save him and make him count later.
The alchemist bounces the multitude of tokens that are created, especially Dragon token from Broodmate! I would almost never play this guy on turn 2...
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I don't think the Wall of Reverence is THAT ridiculous. I mean, I've played MD5 and alot of CCC, with Honden of the Cleansing Fire.
Honden of cles Sure, it was ridiculous if you resolved a Goblet for 4 or 5 counters, that was pretty much impossible to race, and multiple Hondens were also similarly ridiculous. But I just don't see the wall gaining that much life. Maybe in Naya 5power+ archetype it would be quite good.
[card]
Honden of cleansing fire[/card] is only good as a "combo" engine.
As a 2 life a turn enchantment, it sucks, because it doesn't DO anything to board position.
yeah, it's incredible if you get 2 shrines into play, (4 life apiece per turn with 2, 6 life apiece per turn with 3), but that's COMBO, with other shrines, and the card by itself sucks.
They don't actually affect the board.
-
The 1/6 wall for 4 is relevant by itself because it affects board position, then shuts down attack from low toughness creatures and most flyers can't get past it...
THEN the BONUS is that it gains you life/turn that correlates with the stage of the game (i.e. early, it might get you 1 or 2 life a turn... late, it gets you maybe much more life because you will have bigger creatures).
It doesn't require a "combo" piece with it, because all limited decks will play creatures with greater than 1 power, and most will play creatures with 3 or more power as well.
Also, Hondens were hard to remove, and Goblet wasn't usually played unless you can get at least 3 counters out of it. The wall is also a creature so that makes it not as durable. Is a 1/6 Flying Wall that gains 2-3 life per turn windmill slam first pick? I don't think so. I think it's a good card, but not THAT good.
You can't think of the wall as a life gain engine.
Pure life gain cards are usually bad.
This is more like bottle gnomes with steroids and wings, that can't be burned away.
Im guessing you never drafted Kamigawa dcartist since Honden of Cleansing Fire was a high pick and was almost always played in any white deck even if you didnt have another Honden. Unconditional lifegain every turn is extremely anoying to play against and in a format as slow as Kamigawa was with incredible defensive white creatures like Kabuto Moth and Kitsune Blademaster a turn 4 Honden could quite easily give you ~20 life, which obviously is awesome for a 4 mana investment.
The reason the card was a high pick was obviously to power up with other hondens, but that didnt mean it was jank if it was your only one.
Im guessing you never drafted Kamigawa dcartist since Honden of Cleansing Fire was a high pick and was almost always played in any white deck even if you didnt have another Honden. Unconditional lifegain every turn is extremely anoying to play against and in a format as slow as Kamigawa was with incredible defensive white creatures like Kabuto Moth and Kitsune Blademaster a turn 4 Honden could quite easily give you ~20 life, which obviously is awesome for a 4 mana investment.
The reason the card was a high pick was obviously to power up with other hondens, but that didnt mean it was jank if it was your only one.
One shot lifegain is bad, repeated lifegain is good.
Repeated lifegain is a tempo advantage. Gaining 2 life every turn is about the same as blocking or tapping down a 2/2 every turn. One shot lifegain is generally a waste of a card, as almost any repeated lifegain gives you more over the course of the game than any one shot spell does.
But is still doesn't help win the game, hence why no pure lifegain spell is ever a "bomb" per se.
Let's not kid ourselves, it's not like the wall is the "bane of aggro" or something. It gains 2-3 life per turn, and blocks out a couple of attacks, but because it's a creature, it's much easier to remove than Honden or Goblet (both of which were high picks in their respective environments, and basically did nothing but gain life and didn't even affect the board, so I'm not sure where you are getting the notion that pure life gain cards are crap from, considering you not only have to take board position into account, but also the game state. Aside: you went from "As a 2 life a turn enchantment, it sucks, because it doesn't DO anything to board position." to "Honden doesn't affect the board, and it was GOOD" in the span of one post, I found that pretty funny).
Because it's a creature, you can even just swing into it and deal some damage afterwards with like a Soul's Fire or something to kill it. And I never said it wasn't a good card, I only maintained that I don't think it's that much of a "windmill slam" like everyone else seems to be implying. I'm pretty sure I would take solid removal over this all the time, with the exception of when I'm in a specific archetype where the wall can be nuts.
Plus, it's a freaking rare.
As for that general rule, it's not a bad one, that is, until WotC prints something that is one shot and gains 20 life for 1 mana (and without suspend). I think it's about context, more so than any rules.
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Let's not kid ourselves, it's not like the wall is the "bane of aggro" or something. It gains 2-3 life per turn, and blocks out a couple of attacks, but because it's a creature, it's much easier to remove than Honden or Goblet (both of which were high picks in their respective environments, and basically did nothing but gain life and didn't even affect the board, so I'm not sure where you are getting the notion that pure life gain cards are crap from, considering you not only have to take board position into account, but also the game state. Aside: you went from "As a 2 life a turn enchantment, it sucks, because it doesn't DO anything to board position." to "Honden doesn't affect the board, and it was GOOD" in the span of one post, I found that pretty funny).
Life gain cards that do nothing else are generally poor.
Yes, life gain theoretically is good, but most of the cards that do it SUCK. I don't think anybody disagrees with that.
As for the Honden Shrine being good with 2 a turn life gain, I'm just assuming it was, because I'm told it was a relevant card. Good if you say it was. Bad if you say it was. I don't care. The wall looks categorically far better (outside of "combo with other shrine" situations).
The wall is a card that would already be playable without the life gain, is going to be a great card gaining you usually a minimum of the same 2 life a turn.
Because it's a creature, you can even just swing into it and deal some damage afterwards with like a Soul's Fire or something to kill it.
In which case the wall saved you 3 damage to the head AND on top of that, ATE a 3 damage removal card from your opponent...
plus whatever life he gained you on earlier turns.
not bad for a 4 cc creature. It traded for a REMOVAL CARD plus gained you tempo and life.
And I never said it wasn't a good card, I only maintained that I don't think it's that much of a "windmill slam" like everyone else seems to be implying. I'm pretty sure I would take solid removal over this all the time, with the exception of when I'm in a specific archetype where the wall can be nuts.
Plus, it's a freaking rare.
As for that general rule, it's not a bad one, that is, until WotC prints something that is one shot and gains 20 life for 1 mana (and without suspend). I think it's about context, more so than any rules.
Agreed. It's a good general rule about life gain cards.
It's one of the most heavily quoted rules around for beginner players: Cards that simply gain you life while doing nothing else to the game are almost universally bad.
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Obviously a high pick. Extra nasty on pesky unearthers. I don't see the drawback as being particularly bad. Early game maybe, but late game not so much. First pickable.
Tapping down is the next best thing to removal. The double white keeps it out of splash players hands (or should). I pick Naya BM and Sticher first from time to time, and wouldn't have a problem doing the same with this if the pack dictated it to be the best choice.
This card seems like a real pain in it. It stops all fliers in the format, gains its controller at least 1 life per turn, and often more. And I'm not keen on using what little removal can hit take care of it, on it. How high should you take a pain in the ass? I'm not sure its first worthy yet. But all those reasons make it tempting.
A little slow, CC on par with Jayemdae Tome Card Advantage wins games, the boost from this card is invaluable late game. 3rd-4th.
Cheap solid bounce. How high are these picked in 10th?
I didn't play limited during Invasion, but this looks like a flimsy spell. I'm not a fan of putting anything on the bottom of my library willingly.
Colored Disrupting Scepter. There are much better things to do with your mana early game, when you would want to utilize this. Late game it's almost worthless. Unless your opponent stalls on land and can't drop their high CC cards.
Tempo screw at three spot is great. Comes on a creature is better. Optimally on turn 3 puts you in a great spot. LA little less powerful late game, but will still screw with your opponents. 5th-7th
A great new ability on a great removal spell. I can't see myself ever cycling this, but it may happen. High pick Naya fat killer. First in most cases.
Red is so silly. Not a great card.
Unlike Counsel, this card looks wonderful. Easily becomes Giant Growth, and if not, we all played Gather Courage without convoke from time to time.
Looks to slow. Does the Domain ability trigger after the land is in play? Regardless, slow. I want to do something better on t4.
Can I get verification on that flavor text? If you have a nuts 5C.dec going, is vanillia 8/8 what you need? I don't know how to take this card at the moment.
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Pro colors bears are fine. Filler/SB creatures of course.
Fixing is fixing. This card is percicly what you need when you can't pull that early third color. Take them when you see them.
Nuts. Compeletey nuts. Slam it.
Dear WOTC, check my FCC submissions, kthx. Good card, another high pick, seeing as we take shardlands high.
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1 mana. Removed from game. INSTANT.
The drawback can even be used to your advantage early game when you can really use that land by casting it on your own creature with combat damage on. Mana accel/fixing on their turn? Cool. By that same reasoning, it's definitely not a 'use on anything' removal early game but you can easily 2-for-1 a lot of times to make up for it.
Don't forget the drawback also colour-fixes the opponent. That could be quite bad. (Not that it stops the spell being occasionally first-pickable, but it might make it quite challenging to work out when to cast it.)
I wouldn't have a problem first picking Jhessian Lookout if the pack dictated it to be the best choice.
See what you did there?
Windmill slam first pick! Look at it this way: what if Clearwater Goblet had flying and could block?
Would you be happier if it read "Look at the bottom X cards of your library, where X is the number of basic land types among lands you control. Put one of those cards into your hand and the rest back on the bottom of your library."?
(Hint: that's the same card in the vast majority of cases. When it isn't, it's usually worse!)
"Comes on a creature" is what makes it a tempo boost. You wouldn't play Resounding Wave on turn three, would you?
The real question with this card is how relevant a vanilla 2/2 will be, since that determines its power level. Ogre Savant was great in RGD since it could often be persuaded to actually hit. Failing that it could often block in a relevant way.
I also quite like the potential interaction with Call to Heel, but since the Alchemist isn't a Common I don't expect it to come up often.
Gary Wise once remarked that far too few players were prepared to play Skinthinner face up on turn two. Same applies here: people will hold onto it too much when they should be using it to pre-emptively cycle out of potential manascrew.
These are the interesting ones, though! Clearly not great, but is it playable? Such spells are in some formats. With Unsummon in the format I'm not liking its chances, but at two power with Haste for two mana it cannot be immediately ruled out of contention.
Yes, slow... But wait! If this card is bad it will go late and could form the basis of an entire archetype! This could be very cool!
Get three colours out. Explode Borders you for four. Explode borders again for five later. Now my 5C deck only has to do eleven damage to finish you, on top of which I have all my colours!
Not 100% sure it's viable, but I definitely want to try that!
I think it's pretty obviously not a high pick even for 5C. If 5C is so strong that everyone wants it you'll be too busy picking your fixing and hoovering up the best splashable stuff from all five colours to worry about cards like this. And if 5C isn't massively overdrafted then one of the signals that it's open will be getting stuff like this late.
My guess is that if I saw one P2/P1 when I was in 5C it would be correct to try to table it.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the rest of the Basic Landcycler cycle. If they're half as strong as the Red one they're going to be critical to the format. (Though maybe the smart money would be on the White one saying "Gain 6 life"! ;))
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It's clearly much worse (almost unplayable) on turn 1-3 in constructed... Better on turn 5 onward...
In constructed, that means it's infinitely worse than STP (in constructed, what happens turns 1-3 really determines the game).
In limited, that means it's quite comparable to STP, since turns 5 onward are just as important as turns 1-3, 1-4.
Pseudofate, regarding Worldly Counsel, unless you've manipulated your deck in some way during the game, putting cards on the bottom of your library is a zero sum game. Think of a shuffled, unmanipulated deck as a black box full of cards. Whenever you draw a card, reach into the box without looking and pick whatever card you want. The order is irrelevant. The only time you lose with Worldly Counsel is when two of your best cards are on top...and in that case, you still get to draw the better one! I'd say in most cases, the card is about as good as Counsel of the Soratami. Yes, there are situations where one is better than the other, but on average, you probably get the same net benefit, since Counsel is pretty likely to draw at least one blank.
You're not entirely wrong, but the "slight improvement" is maybe a bit larger than you're giving it credit for.
Two key points:
1) Any one mana is enough to cast Cylix. Lush Growth only works if you already have :symg:.
2) Cylix gives you access to all colours (so up to +4), whereas Lush Growth only ever gives access to and (so at most +2 colours).
Factor in that Lush Growth is most likely just finding your splash colour the majority of the time (because you will relatively seldom have trouble finding a second main colour) and Lush Growth would be better off as a land of your splash colour (almost as much fixing, +1 mana source, cheaper to cast).
Cylix, by contrast, is worthwhile in decks running 4-5 colours as an easy and safe source of the 4th or 5th colour. People rating it highly are (not unreasonably) predicting a format in which this is commonplace.
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Pack 2 Conflux? Will this be a sanctioned format? I thought it's always 1-1-2 (first set-first set-second set) or SSC? Is there something that says they'll be playing SCC?
I don't like Mana Cylix myself... however it does allow you fix ANY color (which Lush Growth doesn't) and doesn't provide for 2 for 1s. Lush Growth is awful... Mana Cylix is okay is 5c control. It'll make the Ultimatum's and splash spells more playable... I don't think it's a high pick unless you're desperate for mana fixing. However the one slot is really lite in this format (barring Naya=Nacatl or Bant=Squire) so it may be a fine card in the one slot.
I NEVER played Worldly Counsel-ever! However I'd play Counsel of the Soratami everyday. Maybe because of the domain theme the Worldly one will be better, but it's definitely not a high pick. Gift of the Gargantuan is more playable than Worldly and sometimes Gift doesn't even make the cut.
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Worldy Counsel basically cycles in the mid to late game. I admit now that it is not as good as Counsel, since Counsel is fine on Turn 3 (especially in slow Core Sets) but Counsel is not good in the early game. On second thought, I don't like it at all. Drawing one card in the late game and being worse in the early game is a bad deal.
Wall of reverence - Not just a 'pain in the ass'. It's a bomb. I think it's first pickable. Straight up. Hard to remove. A turn 4 creature that is hard to remove, and can win you races just by gaining you 2 or 3 or more every turn, or just put games out of reach that way... even if you don't block with it... plus it does block almost all flyers in the format.
Scepter of insight - yeah... about like Jayemdae Tome. Playable in the right deck, but not great card. Remember you've paid 7 mana before it's replaced itself.
Worldly counsel. Good card. It was better in invasion, but it's still good here. It's a weakened impulse, but picking best of 3 is good effect. In 5 color it's amazing.
Fiery fall - what does it cost though? If it land cycles for 1R, then I assume it's hella-expensive to cast.
Maniacal rage - Initially poo-pooed in Invasion block... but shortly after it came out... people were using it to wreck people with the right archetypes. +2/+2 enchantments are actually quite good in the right deck.
Might of Alara - good card.
Exploding borders - fetch a tapped land, then deal up to 5 damage? For 4 mana? Hmmmm... late game it's lava axe with accel... Midgame it's accel that deals no damage.
Probably playable as a mana fixer for domain, then if you're a domain deck, acts as a mini lava axe when you don't need fixing anymore. Only good in domain I think.
fusion elemental - not sure... domain 8/8 black body for 5 is good... but I dunno.
Pro color bears are insanely good in any format.
Cylix is good because it hits all colors, and costs colorless. Period. With fatestitcher, it's really really good in domain.
Exotic orchard - Probably good in domain.
Obelisk of alara - Agreed. Great card.
I didn't realize there was a error on the printable spoiler I pasted here.
It costs 5R. That's a lot, and would probably factor much more into cycling it than I previously though.
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All the Scepters are saucy, esp. the white and black ones. I'm sure I'm not the only one salivating about using the white one with Filligree Sages. The black one helps you deal with late game bombs, which is really important in this format, especially if you're playing something like BR aggro, where the card should be amazing.
Wall is stupid ridiculous. Think of it as removal (blocks almost anything) plus decent recurring free lifegain. Sign me up.
Unsummon will just be a lousy replacement for Call to Heel for Esper decks. Bant might like having a cheap creature removal spell though.
Counsel seems spicy in the five-color deck, which gets quite a bit stronger in Conflux. You're going to have to be picking your panoramas higher, because you lose a pack of them, but this card's significantly better than GotG, because you can fetch a spell too. It's probably worth it even if you're just playing three colors. Almost Impulse is still really good.
Sedraxis Alchemist suffers from the fact that there aren't a ton of good blue two drops (is Tidehollow Strix about it?), so he's not going to tempo your opponent overmuch. Still, blue likes racing with flyers, and he helps win that race, so he'll get played, even if he's not a high pick. If you have bounce spells, he's better.
People are not acknowledging how ridiculously amazing Fiery Fall is. Being able to cycle for any basic land is just stupid ridiculous for the five color deck. The added fact that it's not a dead topdeck lategame when your manabase is stabilized just makes it ridiculous. If I needed fixing going into the last pack, I could easily see first picking this.
Maniacal rage is just a better Lightning Talons. Talons got played, Rage will be played.
Might of Alara is meh. You've already got Sigil Blessing and Res. Roar, which are both significantly better. The deck which optimizes this card, 5-color, has bigger creatures anyway, so it's not as significant. I'll be fine taking this as a giant growth in shard decks, but it should be in the midpicks.
Exploding Borders costs one more than it should. As is, you're only playing it if you really, really need the fixing. 90% of the time, you'd just rather be playing an obelisk a turn earlier.
Fusion Elemental is really, really good. Not hard to cast in five color and absolutely dominant when he hits. This is exactly the finisher five color wants.
The outlanders are absolutely amazing, especially in anything aggressive. There are so many multicolored creatures out there, they're almost always going to have pro-something-in-your-opponent's-deck. If I can cast them reliably, I'm happy picking these mid to high. Definitely significantly stronger than just filler.
Mana Cylix is crappy last ditch fixing in the last pack when you don't have enough. It will get played far more than it should, just because the amount of fixing decreases so much when we lose a pack of Alara (it seems).
Obelisk of Alara.... durrrrr..... I'm in awe.
Exotic Orchard is extremely sexy in 5-color, pretty mediocre in a standard shard deck. Just depends on the needs of your deck going into the last pack. High or mid pick.
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Path to exile is the nuts.
Accelerate out of those dragon fodder token right into domain at instant W speed... if you need it.
Also, Hondens were hard to remove, and Goblet wasn't usually played unless you can get at least 3 counters out of it. The wall is also a creature so that makes it not as durable. Is a 1/6 Flying Wall that gains 2-3 life per turn windmill slam first pick? I don't think so. I think it's a good card, but not THAT good.
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Other two drops include deft duelist and maybe etherium sculptor and dont forget about the new outlanders...Also since this is draft even if you have to play it on turn four after a turn three Kathari Screecher, Esper Battlemage or Rhox War Monk there is just a better chance that your opponent played something that you could bounce
There are 8 cards in ALA that could trigger Alchemist on t3
Cathartic Adept - Weak 23rd card.
Sphinx Herald - Unplayable
Etherium Sculptor - Filler/Esper Accel
Jhessian Lookout - 22nd 23rd, filler
Deft Duelist - Solid
Thoughtcutter Agent - 23rd
Tidehollow Strix - Money
Jhessian Infiltrator - Fine card
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If I'm going to bounce something, I want to:
1) Bounce something expensive, so that my opponent has to spend a whole turn re-playing it
2) Bounce something to let me get in a lethal or crippling attack
3) Create some kind of 2-for-1 (unlikely in this set, not many Auras)
I guess it can be good for your tempo to bounce something on Turn 3, but it's like a zero sum game because whatever your opponent plays next can probably block the 2/2 that you played on Turn 3.
I don't think Turn 3 tempo is the best use for the guy. Just save him and make him count later.
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[card]
Honden of cleansing fire[/card] is only good as a "combo" engine.
As a 2 life a turn enchantment, it sucks, because it doesn't DO anything to board position.
yeah, it's incredible if you get 2 shrines into play, (4 life apiece per turn with 2, 6 life apiece per turn with 3), but that's COMBO, with other shrines, and the card by itself sucks.
They don't actually affect the board.
-
The 1/6 wall for 4 is relevant by itself because it affects board position, then shuts down attack from low toughness creatures and most flyers can't get past it...
THEN the BONUS is that it gains you life/turn that correlates with the stage of the game (i.e. early, it might get you 1 or 2 life a turn... late, it gets you maybe much more life because you will have bigger creatures).
It doesn't require a "combo" piece with it, because all limited decks will play creatures with greater than 1 power, and most will play creatures with 3 or more power as well.
You can't think of the wall as a life gain engine.
Pure life gain cards are usually bad.
This is more like bottle gnomes with steroids and wings, that can't be burned away.
The reason the card was a high pick was obviously to power up with other hondens, but that didnt mean it was jank if it was your only one.
Great, thanks for making my case to Apex then.
Honden doesn't affect the board, and it was GOOD.
Only makes an argument for the wall being good.
One shot lifegain is bad, repeated lifegain is good.
Repeated lifegain is a tempo advantage. Gaining 2 life every turn is about the same as blocking or tapping down a 2/2 every turn. One shot lifegain is generally a waste of a card, as almost any repeated lifegain gives you more over the course of the game than any one shot spell does.
But is still doesn't help win the game, hence why no pure lifegain spell is ever a "bomb" per se.
Because it's a creature, you can even just swing into it and deal some damage afterwards with like a Soul's Fire or something to kill it. And I never said it wasn't a good card, I only maintained that I don't think it's that much of a "windmill slam" like everyone else seems to be implying. I'm pretty sure I would take solid removal over this all the time, with the exception of when I'm in a specific archetype where the wall can be nuts.
Plus, it's a freaking rare.
As for that general rule, it's not a bad one, that is, until WotC prints something that is one shot and gains 20 life for 1 mana (and without suspend). I think it's about context, more so than any rules.
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Life gain cards that do nothing else are generally poor.
Yes, life gain theoretically is good, but most of the cards that do it SUCK. I don't think anybody disagrees with that.
As for the Honden Shrine being good with 2 a turn life gain, I'm just assuming it was, because I'm told it was a relevant card. Good if you say it was. Bad if you say it was. I don't care. The wall looks categorically far better (outside of "combo with other shrine" situations).
The wall is a card that would already be playable without the life gain, is going to be a great card gaining you usually a minimum of the same 2 life a turn.
In which case the wall saved you 3 damage to the head AND on top of that, ATE a 3 damage removal card from your opponent...
plus whatever life he gained you on earlier turns.
not bad for a 4 cc creature. It traded for a REMOVAL CARD plus gained you tempo and life.
Agreed. It's a good general rule about life gain cards.
It's one of the most heavily quoted rules around for beginner players: Cards that simply gain you life while doing nothing else to the game are almost universally bad.