Until the "Over-Extended/Super-Extended Eternal Format" rumor is either confirmed or denied, I have taken steps to begin to develop such a format, as wizards cannot do everything to produce such a metagame, one that is necessary to keep us playing competitively with the resources we have at our disposal. I am currently using the casual forums as this is not a legal format yet, but this is my attempt to gather and localize people with the idea that this is a positive possible option. For those who ask why; I was tired of seeing the wasteful arguments and debates of players, and I felt I could take a positive step forward to the change to extended. Say it now "whatever helps you sleep at night" or w/e.
On another positive step note mishima_kazuya is of the plan to Email Wizards as a MTGS-Community, requesting ExtendedPlus/Super-Extended/Over-Extended, but if you would be interested in that, I think this would be the place to discuss important information that would need to be considered in such an email or series of emails, but only productive input please.
The current sets of this format are rumored to be as follows
People have said they heard 6th edition being a possibility for the format, but I am skeptical about that, although enlightened tutor would be nice to have
The tournament in question had the average extended Banlist (However I do not think Sensei's Divining Top should be upon the factual list for this format, as it is an eternal format that is larger than the average extended metagame, but it -as everything else here- remains to be seen). I posted this here in casual because the Richmond Games Club tournament itself was sanctioned as a casual event, and there is no place for such a format other than speculation (and the only other thing speculative about this, other than the existance of the format, is the banlist. In addition, if this format is just a rumor, it is potentially all casual material as is...but mods move the thread to an appropriate place if necessary)
Aether Vial,
Disciple of the Vault
Sensei's Divining Top,
Skullclamp
(I was going to post Primers on each deck I knew could work in this format, but its all up to discussion. and well, it is not necessary, when there is discussion of decks and decklists present and enough people asking how the decks work then maybe)
I would hope that this truly does become a new format and would appreciate input from extended players, since this might be a possible option with the new extended rules changes giving us little chance to play our cards competitively outside of legacy.
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Honestly I believe that the decks listed can be made into great competitors, but my worries as the creator of the thread (and person holding the job of explaining each deck's relationship with the format) is about decks like scapeshift Swans Madness and dragonstorm. Speaking of which if you could inform me of any decks or innovations to decks that could be competitive in this format please share them with me so that I may list them here
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
I doubt WotC will make this format. On an other site I put it like this:
Quote from me »
Why should they create an additional format, thus splitting the scarce playerbase of extended?
Not to mention, if they did, they'd invalidate their own accesibilty arguement for the new less-extended.
Now, I'll gladly let you write a prargraph or two on all these decks. But please do us all a favour and use spoiler tags.
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Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing.
We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Honestly if we can prove that this has people showing their interest in such a format, in the aftermath of what has happened to extended, we can use this with the emails people have been talking about writing to help swing things in our favor and push requests for the existance of such a format
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Honestly if we can prove that this has people showing their interest in such a format, in the aftermath of what has happened to extended, we can use this with the emails people have been talking about writing to help swing things in our favor and push requests for the existance of such a format
As with getting back Counterspell, abandon myfics or any other thing people wrote mails for.
I forsee WotC's hypothetical answer: If you casualy want to play this format, go for it.
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Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing.
We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us.
@ AllSunday- I cannot say that I agree that they are or will be almost useless. these cards have potential to still be as good as they were when goyf wasnt around. I do not think everyone who would play this format would use goyf as a fallback. It could be possible that banning tarmogoyf would lead to a positive format interaction, but then players of these decks would lose a form of solid power which was relied upon, and the deck could drop off the face of the format due to tempo in what is basically viewed as a combo combo combo meta
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Dark Ritual, Fact or Fiction, Counterspell... I like this format. It doesn't rotate, and it's missing a lot of the hugely broken stuff from the early sets.
I have been ferociously advocating for this format for months now on this forum and on others (most notably The Source and Wizards). I am pleased to see unified interest in this issue, and am certainly on board with any efforts to get the format up and running, whether through official channels (the rise of Legacy in 2004) or through grassroot means (EDH/5 Color/etc.)
That said, there are a few things that need to be done before we can really talk about decks. This does not include sending communication to Wizards, at least not yet; we need a stronger base and a better set of ideas before any such movements can be attempted. As to petitions, that's a flat out no; it's one of the least effective democratic tools at our disposal.
So what needs to be done?
1. Name the format 2. Decide on a Banlist
There are a TON of other practical and economic concerns, but they should not be addressed in this thread. Specifically, I am thinking of the economic reasons for this format's existence, its effect on Legacy, it's effect on Vintage, it's advertisement, it's card staples and prices, etc. None of that belongs here. Those are some big, macro-level considerations, and this is definitely about the nitty-gritty of the format itself.
Naming the Format
Why a name? Because "OverExtended" and "Legacy Lite" are terrible names that both slave this format to another one, and do not draw a lot of attention. Legacy, Vintage, Classic; these are good names for previously and currently existent formats. We need a similar name if we are to experience any success.
The Banlist
We need our own banlist. It is not enough to just import in another banlist, because it doesn't take cards into consideration. The way to do this is NOT to just wildly speculate about what is broken and what is not broken. It's to build some decks and test out some cards.
My advice in this capacity is to start with NO banlist at all for testing purposes. Keep Clamp/DotV/Vial/Top and see what happens. Also keep Entomb, Mind's Desire, Dark Ritual, Brainstorm, and a variety of other powerful effects. The objective is to see if a dominant archetype can emerge that is just so powerful that it would require bannings. This is the evidence-based method and it is the best way to make sure the banlist isn't just a bunch of conjecture and speculation.
"Renaissance": A Proposed Name
The name that I have taken to for this format is Renaissance. It was a name that was considered for the old Type 1.5 back in 2004, but Legacy beat it out. It's an historic name that indicates what this format is supposed to do. It's a new era of Magic representing a new era of Magic cards (MM onwards). It's an historic middle ground between the Eternal Format of Legacy and the rotating format of Extended, the midpoint between old and new, dark ages and modern; a Renaissance in the historical sense.
Of course, other names are equally possible, and suggestions definitely should be made.
Banlist Test Candidates
We need to see how these banned cards work in a deck. That means testing Affinity with Vial and Clamp and DotV, but also with new additions like Master of Etherium and other innovations. Same goes for other decks (CounterTop with Goyf, Entomb Hulk with Footsteps of the Goryo, Mind's Desire with Dark Ritual, etc.)
All in all it's a tough undertaking, but it has to be done right and it has to be done methodically. If anyone is interested in messaging me about testing or ideas, feel free to.
TBH 6th edition would be just a little rediculous, and this is just from the assessment of the cards on that list
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
On this list, the following cards will almost 100% assuredly be banned in the new format (in some cases, over 100% sure).
-Flash (Totally degenerate with Protean Hulk, and probably with other creatures. Will definitely be banned if allowed)
-Vampiric Tutor (Restricted in Vintage, Banned in old Extended, Banned in current Legacy. Sensing a pattern?)
-Goblin Recruiter (Alongside Goblin Ringleader he's nuts. Alongside Food Chain he's broken. Not needed; Goblins is fine as it is and does not need to be format warping)
-Mystical Tutor (Just banned in Legacy. If they banned it there due to ANT and Reanimator, they will definitely ban it here for the same reasons)
That means 4 more cards on the banlist which makes it that much more ugly for prospective players. What about the rest? Well, the following cards are definitely archetype defining and it might be nice to have them:
A number of strategies need these cards, or are greatly aided by them. That said, the format would not hurt for diversity without their presence, so it might not be worth it to include them at the expense of 4 additional bannings.
These cards all see, or once saw, serious play in sideboards of their day (Chill especially). It would be nice to see them return, but again, far from essential for the format's health and survival.
The other cards are just not necessary at all, and have either seen minimal play or absolutely no play. Cards in this category include:
The decks that could use these, however, will be fine without them.
Overall, the format doesn't really gain much by 6th's inclusion. The only cards that really would help are the ones in the second category above (Doomsday, Worldly Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Armageddon). Everything else either has better replacements or just won't see play.
My verdict: keep it out and avoid extra cards on the banlist.
"Renaissance": A Proposed Name
The name that I have taken to for this format is Renaissance. It was a name that was considered for the old Type 1.5 back in 2004, but Legacy beat it out. It's an historic name that indicates what this format is supposed to do. It's a new era of Magic representing a new era of Magic cards (MM onwards). It's an historic middle ground between the Eternal Format of Legacy and the rotating format of Extended, the midpoint between old and new, dark ages and modern; a Renaissance in the historical sense.
Of course, other names are equally possible, and suggestions definitely should be made.
My problem with this is that this name was already used, for a set. Do you have a list of the other names considered for Legacy?
Anyway, I like including 6th because it was historically the beginning of modern magic, with the rules change. I do agree that it contains several problematic cards.
This is the poll they had when they came up with the name for Legacy:
What should be the new name of Type 1.5?
Legacy 2963 25.5%
Traditional 2708 23.3%
Renaissance 1858 16.0%
Heritage 1207 10.4%
Throwback 655 5.6%
Ageless 572 4.9%
Comprehensive 558 4.8%
Timeless 544 4.7%
Mosaic 368 3.2%
Enduring 187 1.6%
Total 11620 100.0%
I thought this note was worth mentioning:
Finally, while we all had a good laugh over goofy names like Overextended and Hyper-Extended, we would like the format to be taken seriously.
So, 1.5 used to be considered Overextended, and now this format has the same nickname even though it's completely different. Just thought it was interesting.
If wizards does not create and support this format, I think that the dealers will. In fact I think that we may see some 2k and 5k tournaments for this format, whether Wizards announces it or not.
It is a winning proposition for large stores like SCG. It increases the value of all of the cards which don't currently have a home and by all appearances it will be very popular.
My problem with this is that this name was already used, for a set. Do you have a list of the other names considered for Legacy?
Anyway, I like including 6th because it was historically the beginning of modern magic, with the rules change. I do agree that it contains several problematic cards.
Random name ideas:
Modern
Unreserved
Heritage
It was not used for a set. It was considered as one possible name for the old Legacy format, but Legacy won out presumably because it was more appropriate for that specific format.
The name "Heritage" was thrown out on another thread on another forum, but I do not think it is the best name. First of all, it's almost an exact synonym of "Legacy". We want to separate ourselves a little from that format, not enslave ourselves to it.
Second of all, it sounds a bit old. This is not based off of the exact definition, just a general feeling when I hear the word. It lacks the punch, in my opinion, of Renaissance, as well as the new feeling that the word gives.
I suggested the possible name Modern on the Wizards thread, and it's not a bad name. My only problem with that one, however, is that it's a little misleading. MM onwards isn't quite modern Magic persay. Modern Magic really has a lot more to do with new card frames, M10 rules changes, rare symbols being colored, and so on, then with the Reserve List abolition.
It was not used for a set. It was considered as one possible name for the old Legacy format, but Legacy won out presumably because it was more appropriate for that specific format.
No one uses them, there are better effects available, so no one will lament their absence.
I preface my reply by saying yes, things have changed since these cards last saw play, and it will be up to the metagame to settle things out, but I think you are selling some of this stuff way too short.
Back when 6ED was in Standard, Cursed Totem was a huge sideboard card. Pithing Needle drops for 1 less, but Cursed Totem works for ALL such abilities, not just those of a named permanent.
Recall, too, though earlier on when there was stuff worth recursing. Bottom line is that it's blue's Regrowth... and can become more.
Forbidden Crypt, meanwhile, cries out to be broken in decks like Dredge, but built in new and different ways.
Some other cards do add power to various decks, but again, not in any meaningful capacity. Those cards include:
The decks that could use these, however, will be fine without them.
Again, not really agreeing with you here:
Ancestral Memories will abuse the library-to-graveyard mechanic (and I don't just mean with Narcomoeba). A deck is bound to emerge.
Jokulhaups would be hugely playable, and not just in Big Red. It is much cheaper than comparable effects that have come since.
Ankh of Mishra is about as cheap as that type of damage engine gets. It also comboes nicely with Parallax Wave in a deck that's blue enough to defend the kill.
Crystal Vein, though, is the big one. This format won't have access to Ancient Tomb or City of Traitors, so Vein will be the only multi-mana producer that comes into play untapped that requires no 'tron. Crystal Vein will become a $10+ uncommon if it's legal. It's two colorless mana to get a combo to go off a turn early... bottom line.
Found a few links to other forums discussing the same thing, which tells me that there are many more people actually gathering the cards to prepare. And this has my mind racing with deck ideas of my own. But for the record, this format has to happen, even if it starts as groups of players in stores making use of their investment, and anyone who would try to say otherwise can, but will be ignored...so enjoy wasting your time.
How does this look? And any suggestions? 4 Daze is because of the lack of force of will...but Im not sure what card choices I am missing out on, so I come to you all
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Holy obscure set. Well that set came out in 1995, which did not stop Wizards from suggesting it as a format name for Type 1.5 back in 2004. If they think it's still in the running, then we should definitely think the same. Besides, it's too good of a word to just toss away because of some horribly esoteric expansion.
About the name for the format, what about something not refering time but instead something geographical... maybe something as "Frontier" or something in that line, sorry, my main language is not english, so Iยดm not of any help here.
I really like that name. It hints both at the historic nature of the changes happening between Urza's Destiny and Mercadian Masques, AND at the fact that it's a groundbreaking Eternal Format. I will certainly support a format that is named "Frontier". Heck, it even sounds cool.
Back when 6ED was in Standard, Cursed Totem was a huge sideboard card. Pithing Needle drops for 1 less, but Cursed Totem works for ALL such abilities, not just those of a named permanent.
Cursed Totem only works for creatures. Pithing Needle targets everything. The only thing that Totem has on Needle is that it stops mana abilities, but the only creatures which this would effect are Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch. Given that Totem doesn't see any play whatsoever in Legacy, I do not think that a new format would change the game enough to warrant its inclusion in decks.
Recall, too, though earlier on when there was stuff worth recursing. Bottom line is that it's blue's Regrowth... and can become more.
Another bad card. There are so many better recursion engines that see play. It's just too darn expensive as a 3 mana single regrowth or a 5 mana double regrowth.
Forbidden Crypt, meanwhile, cries out to be broken in decks like Dredge, but built in new and different ways.
An awesome card that sadly sees no play. Like a quasi-Yawgmoth's Will but more expensive and more limited. This might certainly see play, but it does not really warrant allowing the whole set.
Ancestral Memories will abuse the library-to-graveyard mechanic (and I don't just mean with Narcomoeba). A deck is bound to emerge.
It's legal in 7th Edition.
Jokulhaups, Ankh, and Vein are all playable. Indeed, they are just plain good cards. But again, do they warrant allowing an entire set that comes so early? Do they warrant the inclusion of 4-5 cards that will assuredly be added to the banlist? My answer remains no. The cards in 6th edition represent an era of Magic that is NOT the Masques era onwards. These were not cards that were tested by pro players in tandem with R&D. Stuff like Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Flash, and Goblin Recruiter should never see the light of day. Stuff like Doomsday and Enlightened Tutor would add to the format, but maybe in a degenerate way (depending on Wizards' definition of 'degenerate'). The format needs to float on popularity, and one of the ways to ensure that is to have as small of a banlist as possible. That means avoiding an auto 4 inclusion if 6th gets added to the mix.
I'm not trying to be too picky here, as this would probably be the most fun format to play in. However I personally would like for Mercadian Masques and 6th to not be in the format.
Cards likeFood Chain, Kill Switch, Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero, Squee, Goblin Nabob, and Tangle Wire would also degenerate the format.
Also as far as being fun Daze, counterspell, although it's in 7. :-/, are just not. Skill based cards, yes, fun? Not even close.
At the same time I really want this format to exist, so if I would have to take the good with the bad, and I can accept that.
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(For those of you who do not know, the thread about the new Extended rules changes is here http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/95b)
On another positive step note mishima_kazuya is of the plan to Email Wizards as a MTGS-Community, requesting ExtendedPlus/Super-Extended/Over-Extended, but if you would be interested in that, I think this would be the place to discuss important information that would need to be considered in such an email or series of emails, but only productive input please.
The current sets of this format are rumored to be as follows
-Core sets-
7th Edition
8th Edition
9th Edition
10th Edition
M10 (11th edition)
M11 (12th Edition)
People have said they heard 6th edition being a possibility for the format, but I am skeptical about that, although enlightened tutor would be nice to have
-Expansion Sets-
Masques Block
Mercadian Masques
Nemesis
Prophecy
Invasion Block
Invasion
Planeshift
Apocalypse
Odyssey Block
Odyssey
Torment
Judgment
Onslaught Block
Onslaught
Legions
Scourge
Mirrodin Block
Mirrodin
Darksteel
Fifth Dawn
Kamigawa Block
Champions of Kamigawa
Betrayers of Kamigawa
Saviors of Kamigawa
Ravnica Block
Ravnica: City of Guilds
Guildpact
Dissension
Time Spiral Block
Time Spiral
Planar Chaos
Future Sight
Lorwyn
Lorwyn
Morningtide
Shadowmoor
Shadowmoor
Eventide
Alara
Shards of Alara
Conflux
Alara Reborn
Zendikar Block
Zendikar
Worldwake
Rise of the Eldrazi
Recently, my attention was brought to the podcast of DeckConstruct.com, where Alex told of a casual SuperExtended/OverExtended tournament held at the Richmond Games Club based on the rumor. http://www.deckconstruct.com/shows/dc-70-super-extended-rll-season-2-week-6 is the link to the podcast.
The tournament in question had the average extended Banlist (However I do not think Sensei's Divining Top should be upon the factual list for this format, as it is an eternal format that is larger than the average extended metagame, but it -as everything else here- remains to be seen). I posted this here in casual because the Richmond Games Club tournament itself was sanctioned as a casual event, and there is no place for such a format other than speculation (and the only other thing speculative about this, other than the existance of the format, is the banlist. In addition, if this format is just a rumor, it is potentially all casual material as is...but mods move the thread to an appropriate place if necessary)
Aether Vial,
Disciple of the Vault
Sensei's Divining Top,
Skullclamp
(I was going to post Primers on each deck I knew could work in this format, but its all up to discussion. and well, it is not necessary, when there is discussion of decks and decklists present and enough people asking how the decks work then maybe)
I would hope that this truly does become a new format and would appreciate input from extended players, since this might be a possible option with the new extended rules changes giving us little chance to play our cards competitively outside of legacy.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Now, I'll gladly let you write a prargraph or two on all these decks. But please do us all a favour and use spoiler tags.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
CG
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
As with getting back Counterspell, abandon myfics or any other thing people wrote mails for.
I forsee WotC's hypothetical answer: If you casualy want to play this format, go for it.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
That said, there are a few things that need to be done before we can really talk about decks. This does not include sending communication to Wizards, at least not yet; we need a stronger base and a better set of ideas before any such movements can be attempted. As to petitions, that's a flat out no; it's one of the least effective democratic tools at our disposal.
So what needs to be done?
1. Name the format
2. Decide on a Banlist
There are a TON of other practical and economic concerns, but they should not be addressed in this thread. Specifically, I am thinking of the economic reasons for this format's existence, its effect on Legacy, it's effect on Vintage, it's advertisement, it's card staples and prices, etc. None of that belongs here. Those are some big, macro-level considerations, and this is definitely about the nitty-gritty of the format itself.
Naming the Format
Why a name? Because "OverExtended" and "Legacy Lite" are terrible names that both slave this format to another one, and do not draw a lot of attention. Legacy, Vintage, Classic; these are good names for previously and currently existent formats. We need a similar name if we are to experience any success.
The Banlist
We need our own banlist. It is not enough to just import in another banlist, because it doesn't take cards into consideration. The way to do this is NOT to just wildly speculate about what is broken and what is not broken. It's to build some decks and test out some cards.
My advice in this capacity is to start with NO banlist at all for testing purposes. Keep Clamp/DotV/Vial/Top and see what happens. Also keep Entomb, Mind's Desire, Dark Ritual, Brainstorm, and a variety of other powerful effects. The objective is to see if a dominant archetype can emerge that is just so powerful that it would require bannings. This is the evidence-based method and it is the best way to make sure the banlist isn't just a bunch of conjecture and speculation.
"Renaissance": A Proposed Name
The name that I have taken to for this format is Renaissance. It was a name that was considered for the old Type 1.5 back in 2004, but Legacy beat it out. It's an historic name that indicates what this format is supposed to do. It's a new era of Magic representing a new era of Magic cards (MM onwards). It's an historic middle ground between the Eternal Format of Legacy and the rotating format of Extended, the midpoint between old and new, dark ages and modern; a Renaissance in the historical sense.
Of course, other names are equally possible, and suggestions definitely should be made.
Banlist Test Candidates
We need to see how these banned cards work in a deck. That means testing Affinity with Vial and Clamp and DotV, but also with new additions like Master of Etherium and other innovations. Same goes for other decks (CounterTop with Goyf, Entomb Hulk with Footsteps of the Goryo, Mind's Desire with Dark Ritual, etc.)
All in all it's a tough undertaking, but it has to be done right and it has to be done methodically. If anyone is interested in messaging me about testing or ideas, feel free to.
-ktkenshinx-
(the "?" means not sure if it will be important in the format or not)
Armageddon
Enlightened Tutor
Exile?
Tariff?
Warmth?
Ancestral Memories?
Chill
Diminishing Returns?
Flash - almost certainly banned
Mystical Tutor - almost certainly banned
Recall
Doomsday
Forbidden Crypt
Perish
Vampiric Tutor - HA!
Goblin Recruiter
Jokulhaups
Tranquil Grove?
Worldly Tutor
Ankh of Mishra
Cursed Totem
Storm Cauldron (oh wow landfall and Zendikar effect lands)
Crystal Vein
Did I miss any?
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
On this list, the following cards will almost 100% assuredly be banned in the new format (in some cases, over 100% sure).
-Flash (Totally degenerate with Protean Hulk, and probably with other creatures. Will definitely be banned if allowed)
-Vampiric Tutor (Restricted in Vintage, Banned in old Extended, Banned in current Legacy. Sensing a pattern?)
-Goblin Recruiter (Alongside Goblin Ringleader he's nuts. Alongside Food Chain he's broken. Not needed; Goblins is fine as it is and does not need to be format warping)
-Mystical Tutor (Just banned in Legacy. If they banned it there due to ANT and Reanimator, they will definitely ban it here for the same reasons)
That means 4 more cards on the banlist which makes it that much more ugly for prospective players. What about the rest? Well, the following cards are definitely archetype defining and it might be nice to have them:
Armageddon
Enlightened Tutor
Doomsday
Worldly Tutor
A number of strategies need these cards, or are greatly aided by them. That said, the format would not hurt for diversity without their presence, so it might not be worth it to include them at the expense of 4 additional bannings.
Then there are the sideboard cards:
Chill
Warmth
Perish
These cards all see, or once saw, serious play in sideboards of their day (Chill especially). It would be nice to see them return, but again, far from essential for the format's health and survival.
The other cards are just not necessary at all, and have either seen minimal play or absolutely no play. Cards in this category include:
Exile
Tariff
Recall
Forbidden Crypt
Tranquil Grove
Cursed Totem
No one uses them, there are better effects available, so no one will lament their absence.
Some other cards do add power to various decks, but again, not in any meaningful capacity. Those cards include:
Ancestral Memories (Combo and Storm)
Diminishing Returns (Combo and Storm)
Jokulhaups (Red Stax, Big Red)
Ankh of Mishra (Stax, Sligh)
Crystal Vein (Artifact-based decks)
The decks that could use these, however, will be fine without them.
Overall, the format doesn't really gain much by 6th's inclusion. The only cards that really would help are the ones in the second category above (Doomsday, Worldly Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Armageddon). Everything else either has better replacements or just won't see play.
My verdict: keep it out and avoid extra cards on the banlist.
-ktkenshinx-
However, even if it does, I doubt they will include 6th edition, simply because of the number of additional cards they'd have to ban.
Here's hoping for some new eternal format that enables the cards printed (other than just creatures) in the last 10 years to see play.
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of [High~Light Studios] for the awesome sig.
My problem with this is that this name was already used, for a set. Do you have a list of the other names considered for Legacy?
Anyway, I like including 6th because it was historically the beginning of modern magic, with the rules change. I do agree that it contains several problematic cards.
Random name ideas:
Modern
Unreserved
Heritage
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
I thought this note was worth mentioning:
So, 1.5 used to be considered Overextended, and now this format has the same nickname even though it's completely different. Just thought it was interesting.
It is a winning proposition for large stores like SCG. It increases the value of all of the cards which don't currently have a home and by all appearances it will be very popular.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
It was not used for a set. It was considered as one possible name for the old Legacy format, but Legacy won out presumably because it was more appropriate for that specific format.
The name "Heritage" was thrown out on another thread on another forum, but I do not think it is the best name. First of all, it's almost an exact synonym of "Legacy". We want to separate ourselves a little from that format, not enslave ourselves to it.
Second of all, it sounds a bit old. This is not based off of the exact definition, just a general feeling when I hear the word. It lacks the punch, in my opinion, of Renaissance, as well as the new feeling that the word gives.
I suggested the possible name Modern on the Wizards thread, and it's not a bad name. My only problem with that one, however, is that it's a little misleading. MM onwards isn't quite modern Magic persay. Modern Magic really has a lot more to do with new card frames, M10 rules changes, rare symbols being colored, and so on, then with the Reserve List abolition.
-ktkenshinx-
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Renaissance
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
I preface my reply by saying yes, things have changed since these cards last saw play, and it will be up to the metagame to settle things out, but I think you are selling some of this stuff way too short.
Back when 6ED was in Standard, Cursed Totem was a huge sideboard card. Pithing Needle drops for 1 less, but Cursed Totem works for ALL such abilities, not just those of a named permanent.
Recall, too, though earlier on when there was stuff worth recursing. Bottom line is that it's blue's Regrowth... and can become more.
Forbidden Crypt, meanwhile, cries out to be broken in decks like Dredge, but built in new and different ways.
Again, not really agreeing with you here:
Ancestral Memories will abuse the library-to-graveyard mechanic (and I don't just mean with Narcomoeba). A deck is bound to emerge.
Jokulhaups would be hugely playable, and not just in Big Red. It is much cheaper than comparable effects that have come since.
Ankh of Mishra is about as cheap as that type of damage engine gets. It also comboes nicely with Parallax Wave in a deck that's blue enough to defend the kill.
Crystal Vein, though, is the big one. This format won't have access to Ancient Tomb or City of Traitors, so Vein will be the only multi-mana producer that comes into play untapped that requires no 'tron. Crystal Vein will become a $10+ uncommon if it's legal. It's two colorless mana to get a combo to go off a turn early... bottom line.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?17205-New-Competitive-Eternal-Format-Coming&p=455720
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?17992-Overextended-Neo-Legacy-format-scenario&p=465186
http://www.mananation.com/examining-extended/ (the article is mostly about the new extended metagame, but tells readers not to hastily trade away their duals b/c of over-extended)
with that said, the discussion of combo running rampant in this format should be addressed fully
Essentially happy to be looking at the ablility to play brainstorm and riptide laboratory in my faeries deck again
[9] Creatures
2 Mistbind Clique
3 Vendillion Clique
4 Spellstutter Sprite
[2] Artifacts
2 Umezawa's Jitte
[7] Enchantments
4 Bitterblossom
3 Standstill
2 Counterspell
4 Daze
4 Smother
4 Brainstorm
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Mutavault
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Riptide Laboratory
2 Watery Grave
6 Island
2 Swamp
How does this look? And any suggestions? 4 Daze is because of the lack of force of will...but Im not sure what card choices I am missing out on, so I come to you all
merged.
blut
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Holy obscure set. Well that set came out in 1995, which did not stop Wizards from suggesting it as a format name for Type 1.5 back in 2004. If they think it's still in the running, then we should definitely think the same. Besides, it's too good of a word to just toss away because of some horribly esoteric expansion.
I really like that name. It hints both at the historic nature of the changes happening between Urza's Destiny and Mercadian Masques, AND at the fact that it's a groundbreaking Eternal Format. I will certainly support a format that is named "Frontier". Heck, it even sounds cool.
Cursed Totem only works for creatures. Pithing Needle targets everything. The only thing that Totem has on Needle is that it stops mana abilities, but the only creatures which this would effect are Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch. Given that Totem doesn't see any play whatsoever in Legacy, I do not think that a new format would change the game enough to warrant its inclusion in decks.
Another bad card. There are so many better recursion engines that see play. It's just too darn expensive as a 3 mana single regrowth or a 5 mana double regrowth.
An awesome card that sadly sees no play. Like a quasi-Yawgmoth's Will but more expensive and more limited. This might certainly see play, but it does not really warrant allowing the whole set.
It's legal in 7th Edition.
Jokulhaups, Ankh, and Vein are all playable. Indeed, they are just plain good cards. But again, do they warrant allowing an entire set that comes so early? Do they warrant the inclusion of 4-5 cards that will assuredly be added to the banlist? My answer remains no. The cards in 6th edition represent an era of Magic that is NOT the Masques era onwards. These were not cards that were tested by pro players in tandem with R&D. Stuff like Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Flash, and Goblin Recruiter should never see the light of day. Stuff like Doomsday and Enlightened Tutor would add to the format, but maybe in a degenerate way (depending on Wizards' definition of 'degenerate'). The format needs to float on popularity, and one of the ways to ensure that is to have as small of a banlist as possible. That means avoiding an auto 4 inclusion if 6th gets added to the mix.
-ktkenshinx-
Cards likeFood Chain, Kill Switch, Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero, Squee, Goblin Nabob, and Tangle Wire would also degenerate the format.
Also as far as being fun Daze, counterspell, although it's in 7. :-/, are just not. Skill based cards, yes, fun? Not even close.
At the same time I really want this format to exist, so if I would have to take the good with the bad, and I can accept that.