I expect faeries to be big post rotation. So sideboard will be some amount of Volcanic Fallout, Autumn's Veil with others to be decided possibly more burn for RDW/other creature decks.
Right now living end is pretty tough, but that will be gone soon.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like this to occur and validate you.
I used to love running this deck. One of my MVP cards,that you may want to try, isshared animosity. It may seem like a "win-more". But it's more like a "win-more quickly".
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@nightmare - I like the marauders a lot but I think the most obvious card to take out for them is Wren's Run Vanquisher. I may test it, but I like that the vanquisher doesn't vanish, even though it doesn't do the two direct to face or creature. As far as other dual lands/man lands - Turns 1-3 are so important with this deck I wouldn't want to be stuck with awkward hands like 2 rootbound crag and a filter land, I think it may be better to use filters over the crags, but I have crags :P. Same goes for man lands, Raging Ravine is really, really good, so I may put two in. Once again I wouldn't want to run too many CIPT lands for same reason as above.
@ducksoup and Blitz - Shared animosity looks like fun and you're right - a quick win more. The only card I could see dropping for it would be the sarkhan and the burst lightnings. I think I will give it a try and see how it goes.
As far as the battle-axe, I actually don't like it in this deck. Turn 3 I want to drop a ram-gang or giantbaiting, and turn 4 I drop non-warrior creatures (bloodbraid/liege). It would actually slow the deck down significantly I think. Would be good late game - but I don't want the late game to arrive
The birds seem slow for this deck and would be really bad drawn after turn 4 or 5. I like the Rip-Clan Crasher as an option over Wren's Run Vanquisher. I do like the easier casting cost of vanquisher (assuming I have elf in hand). I think I will give that substitution a try as well though.
I have been testing this deck on MTGO and I like it a lot. I played RDW in standard for past few months and this feels just as fast, if not faster. RDW has better T1-2, but Turn 3-5 with this deck can just be absurd, and warrior creatures are more resilient than RDW creatures.
Thanks again for all the input, all feedback is welcome.
why liege, i would go chameleon colossus over him for sure...counts as a warrior so he will get trample anyway, also can be revealed with wrens (don't drop this it is one of the strongest green creatures ever printed!).Additionally late game he can be pumped up to enormous proportions.
besides that it looks awesome, marauders is a card i think you should also test...coming into play as a 4/4 trample is ridiculous
I wonder what I would drop for the marauders if not wren's run (I agree about her being incredible)? Can't drop ram gang. I like having 8 one drops, especially the nettles, great 2/2 for 1cmc and they love to conspire.
I have been considering the colossus as well. Being pumped and revealing for wren's are both strong. The liege is usually pretty sick, too, though. Bloodbraid is 5/4 haste, tattermunge is 4/3, double pumps boggart ram gang and giantbaiting tokens. I think it is a really tough call. The liege is a lot better than he looks once you play with him.
um... how about good cards... Cyclops Gladiator would be better than that and i might not even, scratch that would not even play him.
Manic Vandal night end up being a good sideboard card. Viashino Slaughtermaster + Colossal Might = fun times
there are not to many other new warriors that are really any good that you should run in this kind of deck.
and yes i am surprised Chameleon Colossus is not in there and yes take out the lieges for him... he is so much better
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like this to occur and validate you.
Hm. I don't know that colossus is that much better, or surely better at all than liege at all.
Liege pumps everyone else the turn he comes in and if you had a decent start that usually puts them at critically low life. You have to pump more into colossus to make him better, and it puts it all in one creature, where as liege spreads the pumps over more creatures. I can see why the colossus looks better, but play with liege and you'll see where I'm coming from. 14 creatures (4tattermunge, 4 ram-gang, 4 bloodbraid, 2 other leiges) get +2/+2!! as soon as he comes down. You usually don't even have to attack with liege to win.
I am going to try colossus since so many think it is better, but I am doubtful.
Hm. I don't know that colossus is that much better, or surely better at all than liege at all.
Liege pumps everyone else the turn he comes in and if you had a decent start that usually puts them at critically low life. You have to pump more into colossus to make him better, and it puts it all in one creature, where as liege spreads the pumps over more creatures. I can see why the colossus looks better, but play with liege and you'll see where I'm coming from. 14 creatures (4tattermunge, 4 ram-gang, 4 bloodbraid, 2 other leiges) get +2/+2!! as soon as he comes down. You usually don't even have to attack with liege to win.
I am going to try colossus since so many think it is better, but I am doubtful.
It is true that the liege gives bonuses that you see with other creatures when it comes into play however the colossus does so much more.
1: out of play it can fuel the turn 2 vanquisher.
2: in play it's a 4/4 or more likely a 5/5 with trample if you have the paragon in play that can pump it's self to stupid levels.
3: it has PRO BLACK which is the most important thing about him.
4: unlike the liege he is a warrior.
There are other reason but see alone justify him over the liege.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like this to occur and validate you.
If you want a bit of interesting tech, how about joraga warcaller in there? you're already packing 16 elves in the original list. As a 2 or 3 of, he could get absolutely insane.
Is Obsidian Battle-Axe not worth consideration? Turns any of your top decks into a lot of hasty damage.
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I've run a deck similar to this and although its not a warrior, Bloodbraid Elf is a great 3/2 haste body that gets another creature. I also thought Obsidian Battle-Ax was really strong.
I like your deck list RetroVirus! It is more of a midrange deck than the original, but I think it is the perfect deck for the battle axe, which does seem really strong. I don't think the battle axe fits as well in my "all-in" version, please keep us updated on the testing with your deck. I think your sideboard is really good too. The stable stags and fallouts to fight faeries, and the baloth is a great creature - plus Jund will probably be showing up a lot in extended post-rotation in October.
Joraga war caller seems like a nice card early or late. I am going to try this and see how it compares to oringinal:
I basically replaced the tattermunge maniacs with the war-callers and the lieges with the colossus. Taking out the maniac I am more comfortable playing the colossus over the Liege.
I still think that the battle axe is unnecessary in this version, since turns three and four are where you want to do a ton of damage by playing boggart ram-gang /Giantbaiting into bloodbraid or colossus. I'm curious to see if this version is as fast as the original. I like that there are more elves for wren's run vanquisher and also more warriors.
I basically replaced the tattermunge maniacs with the war-callers and the lieges with the colossus. Taking out the maniac I am more comfortable playing the colossus over the Liege.
This is going to be a slower deck.
War-callers are pretty useless as a 1 drop. they're only playable as a 3 drop really. you've already got 2 really good 3 drops. You need the 1 drop more for your curve and tattermunge fits perfectly.
Liege will kill faster than the colossus. Wether or not the colossus is better really depends on how many of their creatures are black. With so many creatures coming out so fast in this deck the Liege is probably better.
Dermatology is really great. I'm smarter than all my peers.
Dermatology is really great. I'm smarter than all my peers.
Have you been hacking me? No, because if you had you'd know I though derm was for slackers who don't want to work. IM4Life
On the war-caller and colossus again - I think that these two cards rely on the paragon a little too much. Yeah the colossus is great but without trample he can just be chumped unless you're playing against MB vamps or something. If i had 8 paragons, i think that the colossus and war caller would be better, but obviously this is not the case. The liege gives you 3 more creature pumps, and they can be ridiculous if you have any of aforementioned G and R creatures out. So if you leave liege in, the tattermunge wins over the warcaller. If you use colossus, use the warcaller.
On the war-caller and colossus again - I think that these two cards rely on the paragon a little too much. Yeah the colossus is great but without trample he can just be chumped unless you're playing against MB vamps or something. If i had 8 paragons, i think that the colossus and war caller would be better, but obviously this is not the case. The liege gives you 3 more creature pumps, and they can be ridiculous if you have any of aforementioned G and R creatures out. So if you leave liege in, the tattermunge wins over the warcaller. If you use colossus, use the warcaller.
I mentioned the war caller because in the original list, there are 16 other elves, which is reason enough to run him. he does have good synergy with paragon, but paragon isn't necessary and neither is the warcaller. That is why I only suggested 2 or 3.
On the war-caller and colossus again - I think that these two cards rely on the paragon a little too much. Yeah the colossus is great but without trample he can just be chumped unless you're playing against MB vamps or something. If i had 8 paragons, i think that the colossus and war caller would be better, but obviously this is not the case. The liege gives you 3 more creature pumps, and they can be ridiculous if you have any of aforementioned G and R creatures out. So if you leave liege in, the tattermunge wins over the warcaller. If you use colossus, use the warcaller.
I kind of disagree with your statment. Mainly because the warcaller is great, but should not be half the 1 drops in an aggro deck. I think personally a mix would work out better. 3 warcaller and 2-3 tattermunge. That way you can still reliably drop a 1 drop aggro guy and contiune the aggression and still get the insane pump out of the caller.
I've always thought the ramgang was decent. But not quite to the level for me to play it. To me this is where I would make my change. Maybe put in a few Goblin Bushwhackers or something. Dunno though.
I think personally a mix would work out better. 3 warcaller and 2-3 tattermunge. That way you can still reliably drop a 1 drop aggro guy and contiune the aggression and still get the insane pump out of the caller.
I don't even think you can count warcaller as a 1 drop. hes just a 1/1 for 1 if you play him first turn. at that point can't be pumped by paragon and liege only pumps him once. hes pretty awful unless you pay 3 or 5 mana for him.
if you pay 3 mana for him you get... less than you get for a ramgang. ramgang gives you 3/3 haste wither that hits for 3 immediately and hits for 5 next turn if you put a liege out. warcaller comes out and pumps 2 guys (best case assuming you play a creature first and second turn) and a 2/2 non-haste. it may sound better in the long run but this is a blitz deck and ramgang is better because he gets the extra 3 damage in on turn 3 that helps you up for a turn 5/6 kill. its way easier to get a 3/3 through on turn 3 than a 2/2 on turn 4. He also goes really well with bloodbraid whereas warcaller sucks with bloodbraid.
if you play him turn 5... ok then hes good, but not any better than the liege. hes like a 5 cost liege.
so basically warcaller just doesn't have a place in this deck. there are better cards to play that will win the game faster no matter how many times you can kick him.
I kind of disagree with your statment. Mainly because the warcaller is great, but should not be half the 1 drops in an aggro deck. I think personally a mix would work out better. 3 warcaller and 2-3 tattermunge. That way you can still reliably drop a 1 drop aggro guy and contiune the aggression and still get the insane pump out of the caller.
I've always thought the ramgang was decent. But not quite to the level for me to play it. To me this is where I would make my change. Maybe put in a few Goblin Bushwhackers or something. Dunno though.
I like this idea. Hes cheaper than sarkan and he comes out as a 3/2 with a paragon out. nice little finisher. maybe take out a sarkan and/or a giant baiting for 1 or 2 of them.
sarkan has a built in win condition but its not very likely he'll go undamaged for 2 turns. the bushwacker does the same pump sarkan does and he gives you and extra creature that will hit for another 2 or 3 damage. could be worth it.
I like this idea. Hes cheaper than sarkan and he comes out as a 3/2 with a paragon out. nice little finisher. maybe take out a sarkan and/or a giant baiting for 1 or 2 of them.
sarkan has a built in win condition but its not very likely he'll go undamaged for 2 turns. the bushwacker does the same pump sarkan does and he gives you and extra creature that will hit for another 2 or 3 damage. could be worth it.
I'm not going to lie to you. Sarkan's true value in this deck is not his finisher. It's the first and second abilities that are most appealing. I've only used his finisher one time to break a stalemate. I was loosing in board position but my opp feared a baiting so didn't swing in. Miscalculations from my opponents are not something I rely on.
I like the little wacker, but for it to work it looks like the deck needs to change considerably. The one drops are full to the brim. I don't want this to be an over extend deck that just looses to sweepers. Right now we need to do T1 1 drop, T2 Paragon, T3 multi drops, T4 Drop and Swing and set up the win, or just win. Maybe the wacker could go there in T4 slot. BUT rolling one with a BBE is really lame. Even lamer then hitting a Warcaller. At least the Warcaller can get pumped by paragon or an Oran-Rief and be a lord.
BUT rolling one with a BBE is really lame. Even lamer then hitting a Warcaller. At least the Warcaller can get pumped by paragon or an Oran-Rief and be a lord.
the little wacker is a warrior too, so exactly as lame as bloodbraid into warcaller. And you can play him turn 3 with a tattermuge/nettle sentinel. you're right though. I'd rather draw or a ramgang or a giantbaiting over a bushwacker turn 3 or any turn. And sarkan vol doesn't mess up bloodbraid. Maybe the bushwacker is not needed.
I feel like sarkan could be replaced. His pump is decent and he can steal a blocker to finish someone off, but theres probably a more effective card that can go there. I'd much rather play a turn 4 bloodbraid or leige than a sarkan. He just feels like he doesn't fit the deck's super aggressive style. Like everyone else is busy kicking ass and sarkan is just standing over in the corner being awkward.
Here is what I am going to try out:
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Bramblewood Paragon
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Boartusk Liege
3 Giantbaiting
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Burst Lightning
Planeswalkers
1 Sarkhan Vol
4 Rootbound Crag
10 Forest
9 Mountain
I expect faeries to be big post rotation. So sideboard will be some amount of Volcanic Fallout, Autumn's Veil with others to be decided possibly more burn for RDW/other creature decks.
Right now living end is pretty tough, but that will be gone soon.
Modern
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sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
@nightmare - I like the marauders a lot but I think the most obvious card to take out for them is Wren's Run Vanquisher. I may test it, but I like that the vanquisher doesn't vanish, even though it doesn't do the two direct to face or creature. As far as other dual lands/man lands - Turns 1-3 are so important with this deck I wouldn't want to be stuck with awkward hands like 2 rootbound crag and a filter land, I think it may be better to use filters over the crags, but I have crags :P. Same goes for man lands, Raging Ravine is really, really good, so I may put two in. Once again I wouldn't want to run too many CIPT lands for same reason as above.
@ducksoup and Blitz - Shared animosity looks like fun and you're right - a quick win more. The only card I could see dropping for it would be the sarkhan and the burst lightnings. I think I will give it a try and see how it goes.
As far as the battle-axe, I actually don't like it in this deck. Turn 3 I want to drop a ram-gang or giantbaiting, and turn 4 I drop non-warrior creatures (bloodbraid/liege). It would actually slow the deck down significantly I think. Would be good late game - but I don't want the late game to arrive
The birds seem slow for this deck and would be really bad drawn after turn 4 or 5. I like the Rip-Clan Crasher as an option over Wren's Run Vanquisher. I do like the easier casting cost of vanquisher (assuming I have elf in hand). I think I will give that substitution a try as well though.
I have been testing this deck on MTGO and I like it a lot. I played RDW in standard for past few months and this feels just as fast, if not faster. RDW has better T1-2, but Turn 3-5 with this deck can just be absurd, and warrior creatures are more resilient than RDW creatures.
Thanks again for all the input, all feedback is welcome.
besides that it looks awesome, marauders is a card i think you should also test...coming into play as a 4/4 trample is ridiculous
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10800035#post10800035
I have been considering the colossus as well. Being pumped and revealing for wren's are both strong. The liege is usually pretty sick, too, though. Bloodbraid is 5/4 haste, tattermunge is 4/3, double pumps boggart ram gang and giantbaiting tokens. I think it is a really tough call. The liege is a lot better than he looks once you play with him.
um... how about good cards... Cyclops Gladiator would be better than that and i might not even, scratch that would not even play him.
Manic Vandal night end up being a good sideboard card.
Viashino Slaughtermaster + Colossal Might = fun times
there are not to many other new warriors that are really any good that you should run in this kind of deck.
and yes i am surprised Chameleon Colossus is not in there and yes take out the lieges for him... he is so much better
Liege pumps everyone else the turn he comes in and if you had a decent start that usually puts them at critically low life. You have to pump more into colossus to make him better, and it puts it all in one creature, where as liege spreads the pumps over more creatures. I can see why the colossus looks better, but play with liege and you'll see where I'm coming from. 14 creatures (4tattermunge, 4 ram-gang, 4 bloodbraid, 2 other leiges) get +2/+2!! as soon as he comes down. You usually don't even have to attack with liege to win.
I am going to try colossus since so many think it is better, but I am doubtful.
It is true that the liege gives bonuses that you see with other creatures when it comes into play however the colossus does so much more.
1: out of play it can fuel the turn 2 vanquisher.
2: in play it's a 4/4 or more likely a 5/5 with trample if you have the paragon in play that can pump it's self to stupid levels.
3: it has PRO BLACK which is the most important thing about him.
4: unlike the liege he is a warrior.
There are other reason but see alone justify him over the liege.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
if we could only fit in a couple oran riefs
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10800035#post10800035
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/boab/51
I just moved to a new place that does extended regularly and have been looking for a cheap deck to start out with. I'll start out with:
2 Raging Ravine
4 Fire-lit Thicket
6 Forest
8 Mountain
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Bramblewood Paragon
4 Keldon Marauders
2 Chameleon Colossus
2 Marsi's Twinclaws
4 Flame Javelin
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Obsidian Battle-Axe
1 Banefire
4 Great Sable Stag
4 Volcanic Fallout
4 Obstinate Baloth
2 Windstorm
Joraga war caller seems like a nice card early or late. I am going to try this and see how it compares to oringinal:
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Joraga War Caller
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Bramblewood Paragon
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Chameleon Colossus
3 Giangbaiting
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Burst Lightning
Planeswalkers
1 Sarkhan Vol
Land
4 Rootbound Crag
11 Forest
8 Mountains
4 Volcanic Fallout
4 Great Sable Stag
4 Obstinate Baloth
1 Banefire
2 Windstorm
I basically replaced the tattermunge maniacs with the war-callers and the lieges with the colossus. Taking out the maniac I am more comfortable playing the colossus over the Liege.
I still think that the battle axe is unnecessary in this version, since turns three and four are where you want to do a ton of damage by playing boggart ram-gang /Giantbaiting into bloodbraid or colossus. I'm curious to see if this version is as fast as the original. I like that there are more elves for wren's run vanquisher and also more warriors.
This is going to be a slower deck.
War-callers are pretty useless as a 1 drop. they're only playable as a 3 drop really. you've already got 2 really good 3 drops. You need the 1 drop more for your curve and tattermunge fits perfectly.
Liege will kill faster than the colossus. Wether or not the colossus is better really depends on how many of their creatures are black. With so many creatures coming out so fast in this deck the Liege is probably better.
Dermatology is really great. I'm smarter than all my peers.
Have you been hacking me? No, because if you had you'd know I though derm was for slackers who don't want to work. IM4Life
On the war-caller and colossus again - I think that these two cards rely on the paragon a little too much. Yeah the colossus is great but without trample he can just be chumped unless you're playing against MB vamps or something. If i had 8 paragons, i think that the colossus and war caller would be better, but obviously this is not the case. The liege gives you 3 more creature pumps, and they can be ridiculous if you have any of aforementioned G and R creatures out. So if you leave liege in, the tattermunge wins over the warcaller. If you use colossus, use the warcaller.
I mentioned the war caller because in the original list, there are 16 other elves, which is reason enough to run him. he does have good synergy with paragon, but paragon isn't necessary and neither is the warcaller. That is why I only suggested 2 or 3.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I kind of disagree with your statment. Mainly because the warcaller is great, but should not be half the 1 drops in an aggro deck. I think personally a mix would work out better. 3 warcaller and 2-3 tattermunge. That way you can still reliably drop a 1 drop aggro guy and contiune the aggression and still get the insane pump out of the caller.
I've always thought the ramgang was decent. But not quite to the level for me to play it. To me this is where I would make my change. Maybe put in a few Goblin Bushwhackers or something. Dunno though.
How does this look?
3 Joraga War Caller
2 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Burst Lightning
4 Bramblewood Paragon
4 Keldon Marauders
3 Giantbaiting
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Chameleon Colossus
1 Sarkhan Vol
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
2 Rootbound Crag
8 Forest
7 Mountain
lol wut? ramgang is stupid retarded overpowered in this deck. no way you can take it out for warcaller
I don't even think you can count warcaller as a 1 drop. hes just a 1/1 for 1 if you play him first turn. at that point can't be pumped by paragon and liege only pumps him once. hes pretty awful unless you pay 3 or 5 mana for him.
if you pay 3 mana for him you get... less than you get for a ramgang. ramgang gives you 3/3 haste wither that hits for 3 immediately and hits for 5 next turn if you put a liege out. warcaller comes out and pumps 2 guys (best case assuming you play a creature first and second turn) and a 2/2 non-haste. it may sound better in the long run but this is a blitz deck and ramgang is better because he gets the extra 3 damage in on turn 3 that helps you up for a turn 5/6 kill. its way easier to get a 3/3 through on turn 3 than a 2/2 on turn 4. He also goes really well with bloodbraid whereas warcaller sucks with bloodbraid.
if you play him turn 5... ok then hes good, but not any better than the liege. hes like a 5 cost liege.
so basically warcaller just doesn't have a place in this deck. there are better cards to play that will win the game faster no matter how many times you can kick him.
Why is Warcaller good with only 15 other elves?
I like this idea. Hes cheaper than sarkan and he comes out as a 3/2 with a paragon out. nice little finisher. maybe take out a sarkan and/or a giant baiting for 1 or 2 of them.
sarkan has a built in win condition but its not very likely he'll go undamaged for 2 turns. the bushwacker does the same pump sarkan does and he gives you and extra creature that will hit for another 2 or 3 damage. could be worth it.
I'm not going to lie to you. Sarkan's true value in this deck is not his finisher. It's the first and second abilities that are most appealing. I've only used his finisher one time to break a stalemate. I was loosing in board position but my opp feared a baiting so didn't swing in. Miscalculations from my opponents are not something I rely on.
I like the little wacker, but for it to work it looks like the deck needs to change considerably. The one drops are full to the brim. I don't want this to be an over extend deck that just looses to sweepers. Right now we need to do T1 1 drop, T2 Paragon, T3 multi drops, T4 Drop and Swing and set up the win, or just win. Maybe the wacker could go there in T4 slot. BUT rolling one with a BBE is really lame. Even lamer then hitting a Warcaller. At least the Warcaller can get pumped by paragon or an Oran-Rief and be a lord.
the little wacker is a warrior too, so exactly as lame as bloodbraid into warcaller. And you can play him turn 3 with a tattermuge/nettle sentinel. you're right though. I'd rather draw or a ramgang or a giantbaiting over a bushwacker turn 3 or any turn. And sarkan vol doesn't mess up bloodbraid. Maybe the bushwacker is not needed.
I feel like sarkan could be replaced. His pump is decent and he can steal a blocker to finish someone off, but theres probably a more effective card that can go there. I'd much rather play a turn 4 bloodbraid or leige than a sarkan. He just feels like he doesn't fit the deck's super aggressive style. Like everyone else is busy kicking ass and sarkan is just standing over in the corner being awkward.
Except the Warcaller can be a lord if it's pumped.