The more I think about it, the more I don't see why a B/U HexDepths list couldn't be a serious contender in this format. I'm posting this here because I'm not designing the deck, I've just been thinking that with the success of Show and Tell decks, HexDepths might be able to hold its own. I mean, it can be a turn faster then Show and Tell, even going off on turn 2 if you Dark Ritual, and can make use of a blue counter suite. I even considered some build using Lightning Greaves, but thought that might be a dead draw too often. The only real problem I see is Wasteland. Thoughts?
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Decks:
Modern: Jund
Legacy: Pox
EDH: Chainer Reanimation and The Dragon Show, with Zirilan of the Claw
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Wasteland and STP are too widely played for this to work, but it could be good if you could find a shell that wants this as a plan B.
I've seen Nic Fit with scapeshift use Hex Depth once in awhile. They get their lands, scapeshift, get a dark depths, then remove the counters with the hexmage.
Not without mental misstep. Swords eats the combo alive. Also, wasteland is still a card that completely negates the combo. Don't see the combo making a splash in legacy very soon if ever.
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You know, Grim Discovery conveniently recovers both halves of the combo if they do stop it. It's a BB, land drop, and an attack phase combo too. Not particularly hard to pull off.
You can just toss it in a normal Black based aggro/disruption deck too, and just beat face with Nighthawks, Gatekeepers, and whatever until you find your combo.
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After reading this thread I threw together a quick Hex/Depths deck on cockatrice last night. I splashed in green with some bayous to allot for Into the North, because as far as I can tell, cycling cards aside, thats the most efficient card that lets me fish for Depths. I also included a set of Fog and a set of Lotus Petals. I only managed to get Marit Lage out on turn 3, and I was up against a Blighted Agent deck (which is everywhere these days) and lost before I could swing. This happened 3 games in a row, in the exact same way.
After reading this thread I threw together a quick Hex/Depths deck on cockatrice last night. I splashed in green with some bayous to allot for Into the North, because as far as I can tell, cycling cards aside, thats the most efficient card that lets me fish for Depths. I also included a set of Fog and a set of Lotus Petals. I only managed to get Marit Lage out on turn 3, and I was up against a Blighted Agent deck (which is everywhere these days) and lost before I could swing. This happened 3 games in a row, in the exact same way.
Living Wish was actually the tutor of choice for junk depths back when it was a Deck to Beat. Searching both halves of the combo or acting as a nifty toolbox. Splashing white in the deck also allowed access to Knight of the Reliquary for additional tutoring and an alternate gameplan (beatdown).
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Legacy UGX Turbo Eldrazi BUG Team America W Death and Taxes RX Godo Mud
Well, it's more than just Wasteland + Swords (although that does make up a rather large piece of it). Terminus, Jace, and Liliana all answer Dark Depths, and none of them were around when the combo first emerged. Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze helps stop any recursion, as well.
Interesting points. I wonder if it might be worth trying in the sideboard of Pox. I already have Hexmage in the SB as kind of a meta-call against all the walker-happy players around here, so it wouldn't be a huge leap.
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Decks:
Modern: Jund
Legacy: Pox
EDH: Chainer Reanimation and The Dragon Show, with Zirilan of the Claw
I've seen Nic Fit with scapeshift use Hex Depth once in awhile. They get their lands, scapeshift, get a dark depths, then remove the counters with the hexmage.
Except why do that when Nic Fit can Scapeshift for Valakut and just kill you?
I think that if you're going to run it in the current meta, you want to be in BUG or Junk. Either way I'd be running a Wish toolbox.
I think as a deck it cant work for the above listed reasons, but as a component of something like the gate it's perfectly doable. The depths combo also teams up well with the rest of blacks good stuff, since most are low CMC for dark confidant.
Hexmage is actually pretty strong on her own. Can kill a walker at instant speed, can eat a lot of utility creatures like confidant and snapcaster. So if your deck has an aggro plan / ground game you can support her just as a beater.
Urborg, Tomb is pretty decent in that it can turn your wastelands into swamps as needed.
Most of the deck also combos really well with crucible/Dark confidant/discard suite.
Well, it's more than just Wasteland + Swords (although that does make up a rather large piece of it). Terminus, Jace, and Liliana all answer Dark Depths, and none of them were around when the combo first emerged. Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze helps stop any recursion, as well.
Agree with most of this, but just wanted to say that if your Marit Lage is ever answered by Jace or Liliana (or any other sorcery-speed ability), something went very wrong.
Jace doesn't answer the combo, and wasteland can be played around. Liliana stops it (assuming Hexmage as your only creature in play), but then you just sack Hexmage to kill Liliana, then recur your hexmage.
The popular decks right now just have too many good answers against this right now for it to be good.
Every deck in the format has some form of answer for most every other deck in the format. Hex Depths has access to plenty of disruption, plenty of backup plans, and plenty of opportunities to splash for even more possibilities. Hex doesn't even have to be the primary wincon.
I think that the Thespian's Stage/Dark Depths combo does have some game, but it's all about finding the right shell. DDT isn't going to cut it. Something like Junk might want it, since it's a free win if you already run KOTR (and possibly Loam for recursion or Sylvan Safekeeper for protection). Or, perhaps this slides in to the old NO Bant lists as a leaner combo.
Lands can also use it to close out the game by casting Intution for Loam, Depths, and Stage.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
To all the people talking about wasteland and swords. If you can afford it you don't have to go for the earliest marit lage possible. you can bide your time to not get blown out. And in my own experience I have never seen anyone running swords to plowshares in my area, that might just be because this is a legacy light area which is fairly sad for me but a different story and thread all together.
IMO if you just play the deck as a combo it will be very bad. If you play the combo pieces in a Loam, it could be pretty nice. I'm testing out a 4C Loam with 1 Dark Depths, 1 Thespian Stage with Living Wish as toolbox.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the vast majority of Lands players will put in Stage/Depths for at least one tournament, just to see how it plays.
I'm personally really excited to try it out in my Lands build. If it's not too fragile, it can be a strong way to end games immediately after establishing control of the game; the deck doesn't have one of those right now... I can't tell you how many times I've lost games after having had control, just because my Tar-pit(s) couldn't close it out before my opponent ripped an answer.
That's likely the only upper-tier deck that would want to play it, though. Most decks that do the "kill with really big creature" trick would probably prefer Emrakul... You never know, though.
Modern: Jund
Legacy: Pox
EDH: Chainer Reanimation and The Dragon Show, with Zirilan of the Claw
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
I've seen Nic Fit with scapeshift use Hex Depth once in awhile. They get their lands, scapeshift, get a dark depths, then remove the counters with the hexmage.
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You can just toss it in a normal Black based aggro/disruption deck too, and just beat face with Nighthawks, Gatekeepers, and whatever until you find your combo.
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Living Wish was actually the tutor of choice for junk depths back when it was a Deck to Beat. Searching both halves of the combo or acting as a nifty toolbox. Splashing white in the deck also allowed access to Knight of the Reliquary for additional tutoring and an alternate gameplan (beatdown).
UGX Turbo Eldrazi
BUG Team America
W Death and Taxes
RX Godo Mud
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Modern: Jund
Legacy: Pox
EDH: Chainer Reanimation and The Dragon Show, with Zirilan of the Claw
Except why do that when Nic Fit can Scapeshift for Valakut and just kill you?
I think that if you're going to run it in the current meta, you want to be in BUG or Junk. Either way I'd be running a Wish toolbox.
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BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
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Hexmage is actually pretty strong on her own. Can kill a walker at instant speed, can eat a lot of utility creatures like confidant and snapcaster. So if your deck has an aggro plan / ground game you can support her just as a beater.
Urborg, Tomb is pretty decent in that it can turn your wastelands into swamps as needed.
Most of the deck also combos really well with crucible/Dark confidant/discard suite.
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Agree with most of this, but just wanted to say that if your Marit Lage is ever answered by Jace or Liliana (or any other sorcery-speed ability), something went very wrong.
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
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GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
Every deck in the format has some form of answer for most every other deck in the format. Hex Depths has access to plenty of disruption, plenty of backup plans, and plenty of opportunities to splash for even more possibilities. Hex doesn't even have to be the primary wincon.
I think that the Thespian's Stage/Dark Depths combo does have some game, but it's all about finding the right shell. DDT isn't going to cut it. Something like Junk might want it, since it's a free win if you already run KOTR (and possibly Loam for recursion or Sylvan Safekeeper for protection). Or, perhaps this slides in to the old NO Bant lists as a leaner combo.
Lands can also use it to close out the game by casting Intution for Loam, Depths, and Stage.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
I'm personally really excited to try it out in my Lands build. If it's not too fragile, it can be a strong way to end games immediately after establishing control of the game; the deck doesn't have one of those right now... I can't tell you how many times I've lost games after having had control, just because my Tar-pit(s) couldn't close it out before my opponent ripped an answer.
That's likely the only upper-tier deck that would want to play it, though. Most decks that do the "kill with really big creature" trick would probably prefer Emrakul... You never know, though.
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver