Modern isn't for everyone, myself included. But it doesn't mean its a "bad format" its just not Legacy and an impossible expectation to live up too. I've already witnessed many players who dipped their toes into modern who have hopped for a Legacy experience come to the realization that if you want a Legacy experience, you have to play Legacy.
I'll hold off on my snide comments that I typically reserve for Modern trolls and try to address this honestly.
There are reasons to play Modern instead of or in addition to Legacy:
1) PTQ or FNM support is important to you. Probably the former, unless you really enjoy getting those FNM promos (or maybe your local game stores don't support Legacy but do support Modern through FNM).
2) You cannot afford to get into Legacy but you can afford to get into Modern. The choice now between the most expensive top tier decks is probably $800-$1200 for Modern and $1500-$2000 for Legacy, or perhaps a few hundred dollars at the low end for competitive builds in either format. Legacy is admittedly more expensive, but a player looking to buy a deck all at once would probably prefer it as a much more solid investment given the stability of card prices (i.e. if you can pay $1200 for a Modern deck, it's unlikely that $2000 is a dealbreaker if you wanted to get into Legacy). More likely, the type of person who falls under this category is someone who has been playing for a while (perhaps up to 10 years), but is not a true old-schooler.
3) You prefer a format in which the DCI regulates the balance, rather than one in which the card pool is sufficient to check itself. Not much to say about this. This is a reason why a lot of former Modern players have discovered they'd rather play Legacy; conversely, it's also a reason why people who have ridiculous comments in the Legacy B&R discussion threads are politely told to try Modern instead.
4) You think Force of Will is a "stupid" card. I've heard this from time to time, and as ridiculous as the comment is, that's up to the discretion of the player. Note you can substitute Force of Will for whatever card you may dislike in Legacy.
5) Your favorite archetype is not competitive in Legacy but is competitive in Modern. I'm not familiar with the variety of viable archetypes in Modern, which I'm sure is more than that available in Standard but significantly less than that available in Legacy. Given that there are several dozen Legacy archetypes that can take down a large tournament and probably over a hundred that can play competitively at your local gaming store, it's unlikely that you can't find an archetype you may enjoy. Nonetheless, if you played Magic very recently and grew to enjoy something when it was available in a recent Standard environment, you may find that deck underpowered in Legacy but viable or fringe-viable in Modern. (I'm not sure there are examples since I don't keep up with the Modern metagame, but I'm sure there are examples.)
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
I'll hold off on my snide comments that I typically reserve for Modern trolls and try to address this honestly.
There are reasons to play Modern instead of or in addition to Legacy:
1) PTQ or FNM support is important to you. Probably the former, unless you really enjoy getting those FNM promos (or maybe your local game stores don't support Legacy but do support Modern through FNM).
2) You cannot afford to get into Legacy but you can afford to get into Modern. The choice now between the most expensive top tier decks is probably $800-$1200 for Modern and $1500-$2000 for Legacy, or perhaps a few hundred dollars at the low end for competitive builds in either format. Legacy is admittedly more expensive, but a player looking to buy a deck all at once would probably prefer it as a much more solid investment given the stability of card prices (i.e. if you can pay $1200 for a Modern deck, it's unlikely that $2000 is a dealbreaker if you wanted to get into Legacy). More likely, the type of person who falls under this category is someone who has been playing for a while (perhaps up to 10 years), but is not a true old-schooler.
3) You prefer a format in which the DCI regulates the balance, rather than one in which the card pool is sufficient to check itself. Not much to say about this. This is a reason why a lot of former Modern players have discovered they'd rather play Legacy; conversely, it's also a reason why people who have ridiculous comments in the Legacy B&R discussion threads are politely told to try Modern instead.
4) You think Force of Will is a "stupid" card. I've heard this from time to time, and as ridiculous as the comment is, that's up to the discretion of the player. Note you can substitute Force of Will for whatever card you may dislike in Legacy.
5) Your favorite archetype is not competitive in Legacy but is competitive in Modern. I'm not familiar with the variety of viable archetypes in Modern, which I'm sure is more than that available in Standard but significantly less than that available in Legacy. Given that there are several dozen Legacy archetypes that can take down a large tournament and probably over a hundred that can play competitively at your local gaming store, it's unlikely that you can't find an archetype you may enjoy. Nonetheless, if you played Magic very recently and grew to enjoy something when it was available in a recent Standard environment, you may find that deck underpowered in Legacy but viable or fringe-viable in Modern. (I'm not sure there are examples since I don't keep up with the Modern metagame, but I'm sure there are examples.)
Modern doesn't have anywhere near the number of viable decks as Legacy does. That's why they keep banning cards and so far, it hasn't worked.
They banned Kitty to try to make aggro viable and it's still not. You can play Goblins in Legacy but not in Modern.
I could keep going on but hopefully I've made my point.
The only things Modern has over Legacy is.
1. FNM support
2. Cost of entry
And even #2 isn't that much less for the top tier decks. Yes, the land base in Modern is dirt cheap, but even the fetches, which haven't been reprinted, are pricey.
The format just isn't as diverse or rich and the only reasons I can see playing it instead of Legacy is 1 and 2 above.
Welcome to Legacy and playing the best magic around. Maverick is a fine choice and the meta is shifting where Maverick can be quite strong.
Modern isn't for everyone, myself included. But it doesn't mean its a "bad format" its just not Legacy and an impossible expectation to live up too. I've already witnessed many players who dipped their toes into modern who have hopped for a Legacy experience come to the realization that if you want a Legacy experience, you have to play Legacy.
The Legacy community is strong group and quite welcoming of new players. On Legacy nights I bring 4-6 decks to encourage others to play. Happy to welcome a new member to the Legacy family.
Welcome aboard. I don't get to play legacy much at all (these days), but I never regret the buy in. I started playing in 94, but sold all my stuff in 99. This included a playset of all duals, moats, tabernacles, a stack of forces and wastelands and such... The friend who bought it from me still has them in the binders I sold them in. In 2005 I started the long process of buying back in to Magic (specifically legacy). At first I only played mono-blue, because I didn't want to shell out $15 for a dual, hahaha. I eventually did buy them back, and I'm glad I didn't wait too long in retrospect.
Now I have an awesome legacy collection that includes everything besides the P3k stuff, but I look back fondly to the two times when I was starting fresh. As Maro is wont to say, "restriction breeds creativity." There is a thrill to playing with what is available that is notably absent from proxies or cockatrice. Maybe I'm some weird anachronism, but I like the sweat and toil of brewing and also the sweat and toil of having spent real resources on obtaining the cards in said brew. Legacy is actually the perfect format for brewing and for 'investing' in cards.
Maverick is a nice place to start. A lot of the cards are newer, and may already be in the collections of modern players. The old staples aren't in danger of loosing value either. If you like the maverick style, you can also branch out into bant, junk, or naya by getting a few new duals and fetches (which will also hold value). The way you go will depend on the playstyle you prefer. If maverick tickles the itch, you'll just have to occasionally buy a few singles for new sets as you see fit. It's actually an awesome place to be, and why I love legacy. Your decks can evolve over time based on the acquisition of new cards, and the cards generally don't tank in value. I'd say this is the hidden secret of legacy. Standard is kept fresh by rotations, and while legacy can see shifts with the printing of new cards, each individual player has sort of a 'personal journey' that keeps things fresh.
I started off with a mono-blue stasis deck in 2005 (don't laugh). Then I moved to a mono-blue stifle naught control deck (stop laughing). When I got my hands on some duals and goyf I went to thresh, which the morphed into a natural order bant build. I had fun the whole time, and I never dropped like 2k on a deck at once, which seems to be everyone's first complaint. In my opinion the problem with legacy is not really the price, but people's expectation that enjoying a format can only mean stomping large tournaments.
Legacy is by its nature is best suited to people who take the long view. I've spent thousands on cards over the years. Unless I were to sell off my collection, I would never recoup the money I put into it. I just love this game, and have fun playing and brewing. If your goal is to make money, or even make your money back, I recommend reading Kibler's articles on the state of competitive play. It requires a ridiculous time and money commitment to do so, and is achieved by very few. Frankly, my time is better spent focusing on my regular job and playing magic for fun. It's what funded my playing and collection over the years not winnings.
I'm not going to tell you how to enjoy yourself with this game, but just remember to keep your expectations in check in regards to money. The game can be expensive, and difficult to result in a net monetary gain even for the world's best. One thing us legacy players have is that we don't have to chase card pricing trends like standard, and ones we do buy tend to keep stable or increase in value.
I know it may seem daunting at the beginning, but the journey can be just as fun (or more) as the destination. As far as the cost, take the long view and make smart purchases, and you won't break the bank. Also, if you're a good player, chances are that you're smart and can get a decent job (I understand this is certainly not automatic in this day and age). That's where the real 'EV' is. Spend what your budget will allow, make good life choices, and have fun. If this sounds at all like your outlook, I think legacy will give you countless hours of joy.
I'm a Legacy guy, so I agree with out on all counts. Hence why I said "Modern isn't for everyone, myself included."
But I try to hold back my biases and open myself to the possibility that there are some players out there that do want to play a nerfed' out format. So in context Modern is not a "Bad format" for guys that want a nerf'd out non-rotating format.
So as long as Modern doesn't resemble anything like Legacy, those dudes can keep their nerf'd out format. That's how I have made my peace with Modern.
I'm a Legacy guy, so I agree with out on all counts. Hence why I said "Modern isn't for everyone, myself included."
But I try to hold back my biases and open myself to the possibility that there are some players out there that do want to play a nerfed' out format. So in context Modern is not a "Bad format" for guys that want a nerf'd out non-rotating format.
So as long as Modern doesn't resemble anything like Legacy, those dudes can keep their nerf'd out format. That's how I have made my peace with Modern.
I'm aware you're a Legacy guy. What I posted was meant more in addition to what you said, not a contradiction (i.e., here are some more reasons you may want to play Modern even though Legacy is much better).
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
Your are leaving out the most important difference: You probably won't get combo'ed out on T1, T2, or T3 in Modern unless you run into a god hand infect deck. That's a huge difference between the formats. I would venture to say that players hate of losing that quick in Legacy was a big driver to adding that guideline in Modern
Though I doubt your arrogance is actually representative for the Legacy crowd, this superiority complex might also deterr some Magic players. Not the first time I read something along this notion, which saddens me greatly.
I'm sorry if you read that as arrogance. It's more that wizards directly controls standard. They define the format. The biggest decision they seem to want is: "should I, or shouldn't I block"
There are so many potential ways to play magic and I find standard, at least now, tries to keep the game as simple and inviting as possible to the point the game focus is purely on the red zone. Having taught people to play magic years, the red zone game was where I always started. It's the easiest to understand. Decision making slowly gets tacked on with burn (creature v player) and eventually understanding resources with control. Standard as an environment rarely gets to the deeper game concepts.
The superiority complex I suppose you are seeing is nothing more then a deep love of the game. I don't no any legacy players who would not jump on the chance to bring in more players, lend out decks, teach the game, etc.
I won't even hide the fact that I hate standard. But even I will play it from time to time (especially when my old cards get reprinted.) It's just stopped being an enjoyable format for me when there tend to be 4 viable decks, and one is strictly the best.
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I'm sorry if you read that as arrogance. It's more that wizards directly controls standard. They define the format. The biggest decision they seem to want is: "should I, or shouldn't I block"
There are so many potential ways to play magic and I find standard, at least now, tries to keep the game as simple and inviting as possible to the point the game focus is purely on the red zone. Having taught people to play magic years, the red zone game was where I always started. It's the easiest to understand. Decision making slowly gets tacked on with burn (creature v player) and eventually understanding resources with control. Standard as an environment rarely gets to the deeper game concepts.
The superiority complex I suppose you are seeing is nothing more then a deep love of the game. I don't no any legacy players who would not jump on the chance to bring in more players, lend out decks, teach the game, etc.
I won't even hide the fact that I hate standard. But even I will play it from time to time (especially when my old cards get reprinted.) It's just stopped being an enjoyable format for me when there tend to be 4 viable decks, and one is strictly the best.
Well, I'm probably an odd deck in that respect.
I grew up playing this game when there was nothing. No Vintage, no Legacy, no Standard, nothing. I played Magic. And I played it with everything it had to offer. I played aggro, control, combo, whatever.
Then the game started to solidify itself and we got the distinct formats (type I type II, then type 1, type 1.5 and Standard, then Vintage, Legacy and Standard and now Modern) and I had to start learning how to play different games for each format.
As a result, I don't have a hatred of any one format because each one serves a different purpose. Standard is essentially to introduce new players to the game and/or give players a place to play that doesn't cost a large investment up front, even though in the long run, Standard is the most expensive format, though most people don't realize that.
I enjoy playing Standard because it's the most even format. I can put together almost any deck and have a decent chance of winning. You can't really do that in Legacy. Some decks are just plain bad or some matchups just suck. There is no way around that. And while Standard does have its dog from time to time (RDW against a slow control deck is a tough matchup) for the most part, you're rarely out of the game early.
But it doesn't have the excitement of Legacy and Vintage. That's the trade off. Still, I can play both formats and have a good time as long as I put myself in the right frame of mind.
At the end of the day, it's all Magic. Heck, even Legacy has burn decks that are, comparatively speaking, pretty mindless, especially if you're going to compare them to Doomsday. Not all Legacy is Einstein Magic.
And let me tell you something. Ever try playing Battle of Wits in Standard? Just putting the deck together is a brain teaser. I actually piloted that 243 card nightmare to a top 8 finish one night at an FNM. If you think it's easy, try it sometime. The deck never plays the same way twice and you're always thinking on your feet.
That's why I can have a nice night out regardless of what I'm playing. 19 years of Magic has allowed me that much. So in a way, I kind of feel sorry for those who can only enjoy ONE format, or ONE deck.
I actually played battle of wits in odessey era standard, though it tended to play out the same. As it stands I want to revisit it both for current standard and legacy. Don't get me wrong though, I love the game as I've been in it for 20 years. But I think over those years I evolved as a player. Standard as a format no longer interests me, though I do dabble when inspired to do so. If anything I used to strong of a word by using "hatred".
Perhaps I should get back on that battle of wits plan. It would be up there with winning in draft with door to nothingness.
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And the sleeves, having so many equal sleeves, the horror, the HORROR!!!
You shuffle it in sections. I even had a custom card dispenser made for the deck so that the cards don't topple over. One of these days I'm going to take a photo of it and post it here.
Back on topic. Format at risk? Hopefully, not for a very long time.
In the meantime, this Saturday I'm playing Dredge. Yippie!
Standard is a fine environment I used to dread playing it, but enjoy it now (yeah durdle control!), mostly because I draft a lot and sometimes play Block
Standard is how I teach new players how to play, at my LGS on Friday I am one of the 2 control players in the room, but we have about 6-10 "casual" players who bring their brew decks (all Aggro)
As for Legacy I can say it is fine on the East Coast, the last Legacy Open almost had more players than the Standard Open!
Now I can go back to building Mike Keller's AI deck from the last NELC
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
Your are leaving out the most important difference: You probably won't get combo'ed out on T1, T2, or T3 in Modern unless you run into a god hand infect deck. That's a huge difference between the formats. I would venture to say that players hate of losing that quick in Legacy was a big driver to adding that guideline in Modern
Oh, so it does happen in modern? That's cool. Tell me more about how Legacy is nothing but T1 combos. Belcher won the last SCG right?
And the sleeves, having so many equal sleeves, the horror, the HORROR!!!
Anyone who's going to have a problem with a 220+ card deck's sleeves is violating the DCI floor rules pertaining to competitive play.
We're here to play "Magic: The Gathering" not "Who-has-the-most-pristine-FNM-Sleeves: The game."
You shuffle it in sections. I even had a custom card dispenser made for the deck so that the cards don't topple over. One of these days I'm going to take a photo of it and post it here.
I thought this was illegal, since a deck had to be standing on it's own?
I also made a custom holder for the deck too.
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What's the big deal? You could have played multiple Righteous Avengers for years now.
Oh, so it does happen in modern? That's cool. Tell me more about how Legacy is nothing but T1 combos. Belcher won the last SCG right?
Anyone who's going to have a problem with a 220+ card deck's sleeves is violating the DCI floor rules pertaining to competitive play.
We're here to play "Magic: The Gathering" not "Who-has-the-most-pristine-FNM-Sleeves: The game."
I thought this was illegal, since a deck had to be standing on it's own?
I also made a custom holder for the deck too.
I don't think anybody at my FNM cares if it is.
In fact, they LOVE when I bring the deck in to play and actually hope they get paired up with me.
Your are leaving out the most important difference: You probably won't get combo'ed out on T1, T2, or T3 in Modern unless you run into a god hand infect deck. That's a huge difference between the formats. I would venture to say that players hate of losing that quick in Legacy was a big driver to adding that guideline in Modern
Sure, t1/2/3 wins happen, sure belcher/spanish inquisition exists, except belcher has a literal 50% of winning, IE, my chance of winning hinges on a damn coin flip and no disruption, and Spanish Inquisition is both obscure and difficult to play. Can ANT, TES, S&T varieties go off T1/2/3, sure, except the % on those decks going off that earlier are much lower than either Belcher or Spanish Inquisition. If it was that much of a problem, Wizards would have long ago banned Dark Ritual, Rite of Flame, Seething Song, Burning Wish, Show and Tell and Lion's Eye Diamond. The fact all of those decks lose to a well placed Force of Will, or in the case of S&T, very rarely go off T1 (the only variant that can is Omni-Tell, but those hands literally have no protection and lose to Daze).
If you really don't believe me, look up the SCG Invitational from last march, IE, the one where Maverick made up 6 of the top 8 (including 1st and 2nd), or for a period of three months, burn managed to be one of the top decks.
In my area (Twin Cities), there are monthly dual land tournaments, as well as smaller tournaments about 4 day per week, within a 30 minute drive.
I feel sorry for people that say legacy has been declining in their area, or can't find somewhere to play. It just makes me thankful that I get to pull out my decks and play as often as I feel like!
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Legacy Decks UBG Reanimator RUB Delver R Burn UR Delver UBW Tin Fins UBGR ANT
Your are leaving out the most important difference: You probably won't get combo'ed out on T1, T2, or T3 in Modern unless you run into a god hand infect deck. That's a huge difference between the formats. I would venture to say that players hate of losing that quick in Legacy was a big driver to adding that guideline in Modern
I would venture to say this is just another reason to play a format with access to: FoW, daze, stifle, cabal therapy, chant and more!
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Maverick -- Storm Click here for trade thread
Trade thread under reconstruction. Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
Modern is likely to be a boon to Legacy. Honestly I didn't really consider Legacy until I bought into Modern. Now I have a significant number of Legacy staples, short of duals and am buying into a single deck to start.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
I'll hold off on my snide comments that I typically reserve for Modern trolls and try to address this honestly.
There are reasons to play Modern instead of or in addition to Legacy:
1) PTQ or FNM support is important to you. Probably the former, unless you really enjoy getting those FNM promos (or maybe your local game stores don't support Legacy but do support Modern through FNM).
2) You cannot afford to get into Legacy but you can afford to get into Modern. The choice now between the most expensive top tier decks is probably $800-$1200 for Modern and $1500-$2000 for Legacy, or perhaps a few hundred dollars at the low end for competitive builds in either format. Legacy is admittedly more expensive, but a player looking to buy a deck all at once would probably prefer it as a much more solid investment given the stability of card prices (i.e. if you can pay $1200 for a Modern deck, it's unlikely that $2000 is a dealbreaker if you wanted to get into Legacy). More likely, the type of person who falls under this category is someone who has been playing for a while (perhaps up to 10 years), but is not a true old-schooler.
3) You prefer a format in which the DCI regulates the balance, rather than one in which the card pool is sufficient to check itself. Not much to say about this. This is a reason why a lot of former Modern players have discovered they'd rather play Legacy; conversely, it's also a reason why people who have ridiculous comments in the Legacy B&R discussion threads are politely told to try Modern instead.
4) You think Force of Will is a "stupid" card. I've heard this from time to time, and as ridiculous as the comment is, that's up to the discretion of the player. Note you can substitute Force of Will for whatever card you may dislike in Legacy.
5) Your favorite archetype is not competitive in Legacy but is competitive in Modern. I'm not familiar with the variety of viable archetypes in Modern, which I'm sure is more than that available in Standard but significantly less than that available in Legacy. Given that there are several dozen Legacy archetypes that can take down a large tournament and probably over a hundred that can play competitively at your local gaming store, it's unlikely that you can't find an archetype you may enjoy. Nonetheless, if you played Magic very recently and grew to enjoy something when it was available in a recent Standard environment, you may find that deck underpowered in Legacy but viable or fringe-viable in Modern. (I'm not sure there are examples since I don't keep up with the Modern metagame, but I'm sure there are examples.)
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingModern doesn't have anywhere near the number of viable decks as Legacy does. That's why they keep banning cards and so far, it hasn't worked.
They banned Kitty to try to make aggro viable and it's still not. You can play Goblins in Legacy but not in Modern.
I could keep going on but hopefully I've made my point.
The only things Modern has over Legacy is.
1. FNM support
2. Cost of entry
And even #2 isn't that much less for the top tier decks. Yes, the land base in Modern is dirt cheap, but even the fetches, which haven't been reprinted, are pricey.
The format just isn't as diverse or rich and the only reasons I can see playing it instead of Legacy is 1 and 2 above.
Welcome aboard. I don't get to play legacy much at all (these days), but I never regret the buy in. I started playing in 94, but sold all my stuff in 99. This included a playset of all duals, moats, tabernacles, a stack of forces and wastelands and such... The friend who bought it from me still has them in the binders I sold them in. In 2005 I started the long process of buying back in to Magic (specifically legacy). At first I only played mono-blue, because I didn't want to shell out $15 for a dual, hahaha. I eventually did buy them back, and I'm glad I didn't wait too long in retrospect.
Now I have an awesome legacy collection that includes everything besides the P3k stuff, but I look back fondly to the two times when I was starting fresh. As Maro is wont to say, "restriction breeds creativity." There is a thrill to playing with what is available that is notably absent from proxies or cockatrice. Maybe I'm some weird anachronism, but I like the sweat and toil of brewing and also the sweat and toil of having spent real resources on obtaining the cards in said brew. Legacy is actually the perfect format for brewing and for 'investing' in cards.
Maverick is a nice place to start. A lot of the cards are newer, and may already be in the collections of modern players. The old staples aren't in danger of loosing value either. If you like the maverick style, you can also branch out into bant, junk, or naya by getting a few new duals and fetches (which will also hold value). The way you go will depend on the playstyle you prefer. If maverick tickles the itch, you'll just have to occasionally buy a few singles for new sets as you see fit. It's actually an awesome place to be, and why I love legacy. Your decks can evolve over time based on the acquisition of new cards, and the cards generally don't tank in value. I'd say this is the hidden secret of legacy. Standard is kept fresh by rotations, and while legacy can see shifts with the printing of new cards, each individual player has sort of a 'personal journey' that keeps things fresh.
I started off with a mono-blue stasis deck in 2005 (don't laugh). Then I moved to a mono-blue stifle naught control deck (stop laughing). When I got my hands on some duals and goyf I went to thresh, which the morphed into a natural order bant build. I had fun the whole time, and I never dropped like 2k on a deck at once, which seems to be everyone's first complaint. In my opinion the problem with legacy is not really the price, but people's expectation that enjoying a format can only mean stomping large tournaments.
Legacy is by its nature is best suited to people who take the long view. I've spent thousands on cards over the years. Unless I were to sell off my collection, I would never recoup the money I put into it. I just love this game, and have fun playing and brewing. If your goal is to make money, or even make your money back, I recommend reading Kibler's articles on the state of competitive play. It requires a ridiculous time and money commitment to do so, and is achieved by very few. Frankly, my time is better spent focusing on my regular job and playing magic for fun. It's what funded my playing and collection over the years not winnings.
I'm not going to tell you how to enjoy yourself with this game, but just remember to keep your expectations in check in regards to money. The game can be expensive, and difficult to result in a net monetary gain even for the world's best. One thing us legacy players have is that we don't have to chase card pricing trends like standard, and ones we do buy tend to keep stable or increase in value.
I know it may seem daunting at the beginning, but the journey can be just as fun (or more) as the destination. As far as the cost, take the long view and make smart purchases, and you won't break the bank. Also, if you're a good player, chances are that you're smart and can get a decent job (I understand this is certainly not automatic in this day and age). That's where the real 'EV' is. Spend what your budget will allow, make good life choices, and have fun. If this sounds at all like your outlook, I think legacy will give you countless hours of joy.
Cheers,
Backseat Critic
I'm a Legacy guy, so I agree with out on all counts. Hence why I said "Modern isn't for everyone, myself included."
But I try to hold back my biases and open myself to the possibility that there are some players out there that do want to play a nerfed' out format. So in context Modern is not a "Bad format" for guys that want a nerf'd out non-rotating format.
So as long as Modern doesn't resemble anything like Legacy, those dudes can keep their nerf'd out format. That's how I have made my peace with Modern.
I'm aware you're a Legacy guy. What I posted was meant more in addition to what you said, not a contradiction (i.e., here are some more reasons you may want to play Modern even though Legacy is much better).
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingYour are leaving out the most important difference: You probably won't get combo'ed out on T1, T2, or T3 in Modern unless you run into a god hand infect deck. That's a huge difference between the formats. I would venture to say that players hate of losing that quick in Legacy was a big driver to adding that guideline in Modern
I'm sorry if you read that as arrogance. It's more that wizards directly controls standard. They define the format. The biggest decision they seem to want is: "should I, or shouldn't I block"
There are so many potential ways to play magic and I find standard, at least now, tries to keep the game as simple and inviting as possible to the point the game focus is purely on the red zone. Having taught people to play magic years, the red zone game was where I always started. It's the easiest to understand. Decision making slowly gets tacked on with burn (creature v player) and eventually understanding resources with control. Standard as an environment rarely gets to the deeper game concepts.
The superiority complex I suppose you are seeing is nothing more then a deep love of the game. I don't no any legacy players who would not jump on the chance to bring in more players, lend out decks, teach the game, etc.
I won't even hide the fact that I hate standard. But even I will play it from time to time (especially when my old cards get reprinted.) It's just stopped being an enjoyable format for me when there tend to be 4 viable decks, and one is strictly the best.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Well, I'm probably an odd deck in that respect.
I grew up playing this game when there was nothing. No Vintage, no Legacy, no Standard, nothing. I played Magic. And I played it with everything it had to offer. I played aggro, control, combo, whatever.
Then the game started to solidify itself and we got the distinct formats (type I type II, then type 1, type 1.5 and Standard, then Vintage, Legacy and Standard and now Modern) and I had to start learning how to play different games for each format.
As a result, I don't have a hatred of any one format because each one serves a different purpose. Standard is essentially to introduce new players to the game and/or give players a place to play that doesn't cost a large investment up front, even though in the long run, Standard is the most expensive format, though most people don't realize that.
I enjoy playing Standard because it's the most even format. I can put together almost any deck and have a decent chance of winning. You can't really do that in Legacy. Some decks are just plain bad or some matchups just suck. There is no way around that. And while Standard does have its dog from time to time (RDW against a slow control deck is a tough matchup) for the most part, you're rarely out of the game early.
But it doesn't have the excitement of Legacy and Vintage. That's the trade off. Still, I can play both formats and have a good time as long as I put myself in the right frame of mind.
At the end of the day, it's all Magic. Heck, even Legacy has burn decks that are, comparatively speaking, pretty mindless, especially if you're going to compare them to Doomsday. Not all Legacy is Einstein Magic.
And let me tell you something. Ever try playing Battle of Wits in Standard? Just putting the deck together is a brain teaser. I actually piloted that 243 card nightmare to a top 8 finish one night at an FNM. If you think it's easy, try it sometime. The deck never plays the same way twice and you're always thinking on your feet.
That's why I can have a nice night out regardless of what I'm playing. 19 years of Magic has allowed me that much. So in a way, I kind of feel sorry for those who can only enjoy ONE format, or ONE deck.
I just think they're missing out on so much.
Perhaps I should get back on that battle of wits plan. It would be up there with winning in draft with door to nothingness.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
You shuffle it in sections. I even had a custom card dispenser made for the deck so that the cards don't topple over. One of these days I'm going to take a photo of it and post it here.
Back on topic. Format at risk? Hopefully, not for a very long time.
In the meantime, this Saturday I'm playing Dredge. Yippie!
Standard is how I teach new players how to play, at my LGS on Friday I am one of the 2 control players in the room, but we have about 6-10 "casual" players who bring their brew decks (all Aggro)
As for Legacy I can say it is fine on the East Coast, the last Legacy Open almost had more players than the Standard Open!
Now I can go back to building Mike Keller's AI deck from the last NELC
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
Oh, so it does happen in modern? That's cool. Tell me more about how Legacy is nothing but T1 combos. Belcher won the last SCG right?
Anyone who's going to have a problem with a 220+ card deck's sleeves is violating the DCI floor rules pertaining to competitive play.
We're here to play "Magic: The Gathering" not "Who-has-the-most-pristine-FNM-Sleeves: The game."
I thought this was illegal, since a deck had to be standing on it's own?
I also made a custom holder for the deck too.
I don't think anybody at my FNM cares if it is.
In fact, they LOVE when I bring the deck in to play and actually hope they get paired up with me.
Think it might be for the easy win?
Sure, t1/2/3 wins happen, sure belcher/spanish inquisition exists, except belcher has a literal 50% of winning, IE, my chance of winning hinges on a damn coin flip and no disruption, and Spanish Inquisition is both obscure and difficult to play. Can ANT, TES, S&T varieties go off T1/2/3, sure, except the % on those decks going off that earlier are much lower than either Belcher or Spanish Inquisition. If it was that much of a problem, Wizards would have long ago banned Dark Ritual, Rite of Flame, Seething Song, Burning Wish, Show and Tell and Lion's Eye Diamond. The fact all of those decks lose to a well placed Force of Will, or in the case of S&T, very rarely go off T1 (the only variant that can is Omni-Tell, but those hands literally have no protection and lose to Daze).
If you really don't believe me, look up the SCG Invitational from last march, IE, the one where Maverick made up 6 of the top 8 (including 1st and 2nd), or for a period of three months, burn managed to be one of the top decks.
I feel sorry for people that say legacy has been declining in their area, or can't find somewhere to play. It just makes me thankful that I get to pull out my decks and play as often as I feel like!
UBG Reanimator
RUB Delver
R Burn
UR Delver
UBW Tin Fins
UBGR ANT
I would venture to say this is just another reason to play a format with access to: FoW, daze, stifle, cabal therapy, chant and more!
Maverick -- Storm
Click here for trade threadTrade thread under reconstruction.
Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
Modern could never replace Legacy.
The formats are completely different. Its like saying unicycles will replace airplanes.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10498534#post10498534
Pretty much this. WOTC has made it clear that modern will not have a tier 1 combo archtype that isn't creature reliant.
Legacy has the "fair decks," vs "unfair decks," dynamic that makes the format fluid and extremely diverse.
Insufficient randomization, it is a judge warning and quite common among Battle decks
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord