I hate to sound like a jerk, but to be honest I would prefer if atleast some of the legacy events were replaced by modern or standard events. Those latter 2 formats are so much more reasonable and accessible for many players to play. A viable legacy deck can cost thousands, with the lands costing upwards past $100 EACH. As a younger player and like many other players I know, it's not practical for me to spend hundreds of dollars on a manabase alone. I hope to some day be able to play legacy, but it's just so expensive >_>
It's unfortunate that more people can't play Legacy, but rising costs aren't a problem exclusive to Legacy: it's a problem that has pervaded every format in Magic, including casual ones like EDH.
To get a top tier Legacy deck, you'll have to pay probably a minimum of $300 (Dredge) to a maximum of probably $1500-2000 (Esper Stoneblade), depending on how savvy you are with shopping. I'm excluding outliers like Burn and 43 Lands which see fringe play. In the middle are other fun decks like Elves and Goblins which probably cost $500 or so (quick estimate off the top of my head).
Standard will probably set you back $500 or more a top tier deck (again, I'm not familiar with the Standard meta, so there might be cheaper options available), but that's a figure I've seen thrown around a lot. That deck will probably be worth $50 in 2 years time.
Modern was created to provide a non-rotating format without the high barriers of entry imposed by the reserved list, which was a noble goal: half the Legacy fun with perhaps a quarter of the cost, if you will. It has unfortunately failed at the goal.
Two years ago, I was jamming Zoo in every format I could, not due to budget reasons, but because it was the best deck. I probably would have won a Black Lotus with it, except I punted like an idiot in the top 8. Regardless, it was arguably the best deck in the format, and it would have set me back $600-800 to construct starting from nothing at the time. Six months later, Modern was created, and a crappy version of that deck without the dual lands (and other stuff) would have cost $900! Unfortunately, Modern has raised the costs of a lot of cross-format staples. It is still cheaper than Legacy, but not by much: a Modern Jund deck probably would cost 75-80% of what a Legacy Jund deck does. You can still build your cheap "not-real-Magic" deck like Eggs, just like you can build a Legacy Dredge deck, but your deck is very likely to be rendered useless by a ban. The ship has sailed on getting into that format cheaply, which is fine if you already have all the fetchlands, Goyfs, Thoughtseizes, Vendilion Clique, Dark Confidants, etc., but a significant problem if you have nothing.
I hope you find the best format for your budget and your interests. If it happens to be Legacy, the community will still be here to greet you with open arms.
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
Lastly, I'd honestly say Fetch lands are more important than Dual Lands. Most decks do not *need* four of a dual land (maybe two is enough in many cases) and frankly you could get away with running Shocks so long as you had the fetches.
I'd say most decks don't even want four of a particular dual: the only exceptions I can think of are Reanimator and Maverick.
Shocks are not ideal, but they are very close to optimal while being only a fraction of the cost. In a deck like Belcher, that two damage will matter 0.000001% of the time. However, there are three types of decks where I would argue they are an inadequate substitute:
1) Daze decks like RUG Delver, where the damage can add up really quickly.
2) Elves, where damage can be painful when used with Quirion Ranger (applies to a lesser extent with Maverick, but Scryb Ranger is not an important part of that deck).
3) Ad Nauseam decks, or to a lesser extent, Reanimator decks, where life is used as a resource.
I think the best bang for your buck if you want to play a 2-3 colored deck would be to get the fetchlands, use shocklands in appropriate decks, and slowly work in a mix of dual lands (so you can fetch shocklands when the liability won't hurt).
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And still no matter how you look at it, a person has to spend $160 in one shot to get that underground sea. It's not like modern where even the fetchlands go to $33ish at most.
If I were to start making a legacy deck right now, it would take me about 2 years without spending on any other formats to create a fun, top tier deck. I wouldn't call that an ignorant search for 'immediate gratification', it's just I would rather put my hard earned money towards modern, which I'll actually be able to play sooner than years down the road. I'm 18 years old, working as a delivery guy, and going to college next year. If I put $130 (or I'm sorry, $160) towards an original dual, I'll be sitting on it for the next X years doing nothing with it. A magic card without a deck around it is simply a piece of cardboard, or at best a trading piece at which point I would have rather just spent the money on the cards I'm trading it for in the first place. I can't afford to buy magic cards and sit on them until they increase in value and then sell it/trade it for more than I spent sometime later.
All I'm saying is that for a huge portion of people trying to play Magic the Gathering, Legacy is not a viable option.
Stop eyeing the Astons Martins and grab a Kia. Underground Seas aren't the only way to get there and it'll give you something to work towards.
He has a point. You can build Sam Black Zombies (good luck playing it correctly though) for cheap. Other than duals and thoughtseizes its really cheap. Nic Fit is pretty damn cheap as well other than duals. My only suggestion is that If you arent playing blue, then play black. Disruption is key in this format. People try to do broken things and you need to have at least a fighting chance against that.
He didnt say that you wanted gratification to play legacy. He said it because you thought that Legacy Opens should be changed to standard or modern. You can find plenty of standard and modern events everywhere. Legacy is much more difficult to find a tournament for. Which is why Legacy players get angry when standard or modern players say that SCG should change legacy opens.
Its not that they should, more so that they will.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
Have you? Or are you hiding in a cave un-aware that SCG already has started to replace legacy sundays with other formats this year alone. None of which are modern. Next year expect even less Legacy days, replaced by even more standard/modern/sealed.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Have you? Or are you hiding in a cave un-aware that SCG already has started to replace legacy sundays with other formats this year alone. None of which are modern. Next year expect even less Legacy days, replaced by even more standard/modern/sealed.
Since you're so well informed
Why don't you go ahead and tell us how many Legacy events SCG has cancelled, their dates, the locations, the attendance the last time an event was held there.
Are you in this thread because you're interested in Legacy, or are you one of those that just want to see the world burn? Because it seems that you are more interested in posting to see your own 'dogmatic strawman' words rather having a REAL dialogue.
NB: I wish that the Legacy sub-forums has the same rules of the Modern sub-forums protects the discussions from going south.
Have you? Or are you hiding in a cave un-aware that SCG already has started to replace legacy sundays with other formats this year alone. None of which are modern. Next year expect even less Legacy days, replaced by even more standard/modern/sealed.
I apologize. I forgot it was April Fools'. Well played, sir.
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Why don't you go ahead and tell us how many Legacy events SCG has cancelled, their dates, the locations, the attendance the last time an event was held there.
Are you in this thread because you're interested in Legacy, or are you one of those that just want to see the world burn? Because it seems that you are more interested in posting to see your own 'dogmatic strawman' words rather having a REAL dialogue.
NB: I wish that the Legacy sub-forums has the same rules of the Modern sub-forums protects the discussions from going south.
First off im not bashing legacy, I play it. Im just saying, as the thread title is about, is that the format is at risk. WOTC and scg are dropping support to the format. We get less and less legacy gp/scgopens.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25452_StarCityGamescom-Organized-Play-Update.html
star city changed some weekends to no longer have legacy on sunday already this year and I would only expect more of this as time goes on. It only makes sense with weekends like indy with over 400 players for standard and only around 100-200 players for legacy. Why wouldn't they change sundays to a format that draws more players, they make more money that way. This is pure fundamental logic that you cannot deny.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
They only changed it for areas that are traditionally weak in support of legacy. And look how well it worked for them. 200 less players the second day. ..
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25452_StarCityGamescom-Organized-Play-Update.html
star city changed some weekends to no longer have legacy on sunday already this year and I would only expect more of this as time goes on. It only makes sense with weekends like indy with over 400 players for standard and only around 100-200 players for legacy. Why wouldn't they change sundays to a format that draws more players, they make more money that way. This is pure fundamental logic that you cannot deny.
The other twenty-one Sundays still feature Legacy Opens, and we have no intention of abandoning our support of the format. However, one of the key factors in the success of StarCityGames.com's Organized Play programs has been our willingness to try new things. Experimenting with alternate formats in a handful of locations is simply another example of that.
A quote from that article you posted.
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Don't just have an idea - have all of them.
-Niv-Mizzet
They only changed it for areas that are traditionally weak in support of legacy. And look how well it worked for them. 200 less players the second day. ..
Holy cow, from 377 players on Saturday down to 179 on Sunday. They didn't even break even. Basically, they got a below average Legacy turnout, except they don't manage to sell or buy cards from any Legacy players on Sunday, and they are unable to grow Legacy interest in the region.
Epic fail.
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I mean honestly, everything in this world is "at risk". Life is fleeting and everything falls apart. Is Legacy at risk in the next year or two? I don't see it. 5 years from now? Possibly, but what does pontificating about that now do? Nothing. Quite Lliterally, this thread is pointless.
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Currently Running:
:symb::symu::symg: BUG Tempo
:symb::symg::symw: JUNK
:symg::symr::symb: JUND
Currently Building:
:symu::symw: Miracle Control
:symb::symu::symr: ANT
There actually zero facts that support a Legacy is dying claim.
The only argument I have heard that legacy will die is because cards will be destroyed and the reserve list will stop wizards from printing anymore.
This is the biggest piece of horse **** I've ever heard. These arguments are all rooted in theory crafting and fear mongering. The reality is that there are a finite number of ANY card AND not being on the reserve list doesn't guarantee a reprint or access to a reprint.
All I have are REAL personal experiences that Legacy is growing and becoming more popular. In the last 2 months I've attended 3 local events. 2/3 years ago these events were lucky to break 20 players. The last 2 months have boasted 41 players, 72 players and 42 players(capped) I see new faces at my LGS. Last weekend 3 players I know from other formats made their legacy debut. 2 of them placing top 8/42 players. I know guys trading off their standard for legacy. (Rotation is coming and every year a certain number of players migrate to legacy)
Legacy may get more expensive and exclusive but it will not die.
First off im not bashing legacy, I play it. Im just saying, as the thread title is about, is that the format is at risk. WOTC and scg are dropping support to the format. We get less and less legacy gp/scgopens.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25452_StarCityGamescom-Organized-Play-Update.html
star city changed some weekends to no longer have legacy on sunday already this year and I would only expect more of this as time goes on. It only makes sense with weekends like indy with over 400 players for standard and only around 100-200 players for legacy. Why wouldn't they change sundays to a format that draws more players, they make more money that way. This is pure fundamental logic that you cannot deny.
Here's some more pure fundamental logic rooted in finances for ya: It is majorly against WOTC's financial interests for no strong/popular format which uses cards from the inception of the game to exist. The short-term applications of Standard help encourage people to buy new product, but the long-term assurance customers have that their cardboard will never be useless cannot be underestimated either. This role has been played by early days "simply Magic", has been played by Vintage, is currently being played by Legacy, and may someday way down the line be played by a morphed Legacy without dual lands--just an off the cuff example--or whatever, but the spirit will remain, and the torch certainly won't be carried by some format that effectively has a 5,500 card banned list (training wheels regulation doesn't help either).
Here's some more pure fundamental logic rooted in finances for ya: It is majorly against WOTC's financial interests for no strong/popular format which uses cards from the inception of the game to exist. The short-term applications of Standard help encourage people to buy new product, but the long-term assurance customers have that their cardboard will never be useless cannot be underestimated either.
What happens when those customers who own non-Modern cards become a small minority? Let's say 10 or 15 years down the road, assuming the game stays healthy and growing, only 1% of players really own many Legacy cards of value. That's probably pretty close to accurate. Doesn't it make more sense to have an "Eternal" format where they can control the supply and profit from reprints as well as new sets? Financially speaking, Modern (or something like it) is a no brainer to fill that role you're talking about.
It's unfortunate that more people can't play Legacy, but rising costs aren't a problem exclusive to Legacy: it's a problem that has pervaded every format in Magic, including casual ones like EDH.
To get a top tier Legacy deck, you'll have to pay probably a minimum of $300 (Dredge) to a maximum of probably $1500-2000 (Esper Stoneblade), depending on how savvy you are with shopping. I'm excluding outliers like Burn and 43 Lands which see fringe play. In the middle are other fun decks like Elves and Goblins which probably cost $500 or so (quick estimate off the top of my head).
Standard will probably set you back $500 or more a top tier deck (again, I'm not familiar with the Standard meta, so there might be cheaper options available), but that's a figure I've seen thrown around a lot. That deck will probably be worth $50 in 2 years time.
Modern was created to provide a non-rotating format without the high barriers of entry imposed by the reserved list, which was a noble goal: half the Legacy fun with perhaps a quarter of the cost, if you will. It has unfortunately failed at the goal.
Two years ago, I was jamming Zoo in every format I could, not due to budget reasons, but because it was the best deck. I probably would have won a Black Lotus with it, except I punted like an idiot in the top 8. Regardless, it was arguably the best deck in the format, and it would have set me back $600-800 to construct starting from nothing at the time. Six months later, Modern was created, and a crappy version of that deck without the dual lands (and other stuff) would have cost $900! Unfortunately, Modern has raised the costs of a lot of cross-format staples. It is still cheaper than Legacy, but not by much: a Modern Jund deck probably would cost 75-80% of what a Legacy Jund deck does. You can still build your cheap "not-real-Magic" deck like Eggs, just like you can build a Legacy Dredge deck, but your deck is very likely to be rendered useless by a ban. The ship has sailed on getting into that format cheaply, which is fine if you already have all the fetchlands, Goyfs, Thoughtseizes, Vendilion Clique, Dark Confidants, etc., but a significant problem if you have nothing.
I hope you find the best format for your budget and your interests. If it happens to be Legacy, the community will still be here to greet you with open arms.
I don't understand how Modern has failed it's goal? Could you explain?
Thoughtseize, jace TMS, tarmogoyf, etc are expensive because of modern and not because of legacy. This in effect gives modern an almost higher then legacy entry.
Recently bloodbraid elf banned. Looks like eggs is going to be the next casualty. There are no "balancing cards" in modern so the course of action is banning cards to create the desired format. This leads to players being unable to play the cards they want to in the attempt to create a format specific clock. This means you can't always do something in modern that you want to; in essence killing some of the fun.
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------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
What happens when those customers who own non-Modern cards become a small minority? Let's say 10 or 15 years down the road, assuming the game stays healthy and growing, only 1% of players really own many Legacy cards of value. That's probably pretty close to accurate. Doesn't it make more sense to have an "Eternal" format where they can control the supply and profit from reprints as well as new sets? Financially speaking, Modern (or something like it) is a no brainer to fill that role you're talking about.
I'd agree with you that Modern is more financially stable than Legacy in the long run (mostly because of the reserved list). However, I don't see Modern becoming the eternal format of choice in at least another five years at least. The real issue Wizards is having right now is finding a balance with Modern's card pool that neither seems too broken nor too underpowered. IMO, they've gone a bit too far towards the underpowered end of the spectrum, which is why I've been working on getting into Legacy. Even with built-in financial sustainability, Modern needs to find a more stable, positive identity than being the 'banhammer happy' format like Weapon X said.
Thoughtseize, jace TMS, tarmogoyf, etc are expensive because of modern and not because of legacy. This in effect gives modern an almost higher then legacy entry.
Recently bloodbraid elf banned. Looks like eggs is going to be the next casualty. There are no "balancing cards" in modern so the course of action is banning cards to create the desired format. This leads to players being unable to play the cards they want to in the attempt to create a format specific clock. This means you can't always do something in modern that you want to; in essence killing some of the fun.
Are you joking? First Jace is banned. Thoughtseize has been over the 30$ mark for YEARS now, along with Tarmogoyf's price tag. Modern has JUST blown up as a format since the last Pro Tour, as you can see from MTGStocks. Why don't you actually do some research instead of spewing out random facts you clearly know nothing about?
Legacy wont die, it'll just become the next vintage when legacy pre-modern stapples prices are too high, so newcomers will get to modern or standard eventually.
Don't worry, legacy will never die, it'll just become some kind of 'elite format' like vintage, wich is, in my honest opinion, faaaar worse than dying ^^.
I'm going to have to ask you to explain what you just wrote, even if I don't challenge your hypothetical that Legacy will become the next Vintage, by which I assume you mean "effectively a dead format". (For the record, I strongly refute that notion, but this has been discussed to death already on this thread by a number of posters, including myself.) How is that "faaaar worse than dying ^^"? We still get to play with more or less the same player base as currently exists (even ignoring the fact that the Legacy player base is in fact expanding)? Sounds pretty sweet to me. Is the catch that we have to continue to hear from Modern players about how Legacy will continue to die, the same way that we incessantly have to answer the doorbell to listen to Jehovah's Witnesses tell us how the end of the world is come? I mean, technically, the world will suffer the same inevitable "entropic death" which Legacy doomsayers love to spout as a talking point, which probably started when some high schooler pulled it out of his introductory physics book.
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Are you joking? First Jace is banned. Thoughtseize has been over the 30$ mark for YEARS now, along with Tarmogoyf's price tag. Modern has JUST blown up as a format since the last Pro Tour, as you can see from MTGStocks. Why don't you actually do some research instead of spewing out random facts you clearly know nothing about?
I posted this before, and I did the research.
Before modern was announced. Goyf was 50, Bob and thought seize were 20. Modern was announced spring of 2011.
That is the result of a Google Trends search for Force of Will. Most interesting is how queries peak in October and March and have been steadily increasing that way over the past five years. If interest in Force of Will is at a record high, interest in Legacy must be at a record high. The problem with Legacy is certainly not due to a lack of popularity.
note: I'm note sure how accurately Force of Will on Google relates to magic. Many cards do not have as well defined a graph as Force of Will gets.
It's unfortunate that more people can't play Legacy, but rising costs aren't a problem exclusive to Legacy: it's a problem that has pervaded every format in Magic, including casual ones like EDH.
To get a top tier Legacy deck, you'll have to pay probably a minimum of $300 (Dredge) to a maximum of probably $1500-2000 (Esper Stoneblade), depending on how savvy you are with shopping. I'm excluding outliers like Burn and 43 Lands which see fringe play. In the middle are other fun decks like Elves and Goblins which probably cost $500 or so (quick estimate off the top of my head).
Standard will probably set you back $500 or more a top tier deck (again, I'm not familiar with the Standard meta, so there might be cheaper options available), but that's a figure I've seen thrown around a lot. That deck will probably be worth $50 in 2 years time.
Modern was created to provide a non-rotating format without the high barriers of entry imposed by the reserved list, which was a noble goal: half the Legacy fun with perhaps a quarter of the cost, if you will. It has unfortunately failed at the goal.
Two years ago, I was jamming Zoo in every format I could, not due to budget reasons, but because it was the best deck. I probably would have won a Black Lotus with it, except I punted like an idiot in the top 8. Regardless, it was arguably the best deck in the format, and it would have set me back $600-800 to construct starting from nothing at the time. Six months later, Modern was created, and a crappy version of that deck without the dual lands (and other stuff) would have cost $900! Unfortunately, Modern has raised the costs of a lot of cross-format staples. It is still cheaper than Legacy, but not by much: a Modern Jund deck probably would cost 75-80% of what a Legacy Jund deck does. You can still build your cheap "not-real-Magic" deck like Eggs, just like you can build a Legacy Dredge deck, but your deck is very likely to be rendered useless by a ban. The ship has sailed on getting into that format cheaply, which is fine if you already have all the fetchlands, Goyfs, Thoughtseizes, Vendilion Clique, Dark Confidants, etc., but a significant problem if you have nothing.
I hope you find the best format for your budget and your interests. If it happens to be Legacy, the community will still be here to greet you with open arms.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingI'd say most decks don't even want four of a particular dual: the only exceptions I can think of are Reanimator and Maverick.
Shocks are not ideal, but they are very close to optimal while being only a fraction of the cost. In a deck like Belcher, that two damage will matter 0.000001% of the time. However, there are three types of decks where I would argue they are an inadequate substitute:
1) Daze decks like RUG Delver, where the damage can add up really quickly.
2) Elves, where damage can be painful when used with Quirion Ranger (applies to a lesser extent with Maverick, but Scryb Ranger is not an important part of that deck).
3) Ad Nauseam decks, or to a lesser extent, Reanimator decks, where life is used as a resource.
I think the best bang for your buck if you want to play a 2-3 colored deck would be to get the fetchlands, use shocklands in appropriate decks, and slowly work in a mix of dual lands (so you can fetch shocklands when the liability won't hurt).
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingStop eyeing the Astons Martins and grab a Kia. Underground Seas aren't the only way to get there and it'll give you something to work towards.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Its not that they should, more so that they will.
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Have you recently suffered a blow to the head?
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingHave you? Or are you hiding in a cave un-aware that SCG already has started to replace legacy sundays with other formats this year alone. None of which are modern. Next year expect even less Legacy days, replaced by even more standard/modern/sealed.
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Since you're so well informed
Why don't you go ahead and tell us how many Legacy events SCG has cancelled, their dates, the locations, the attendance the last time an event was held there.
Are you in this thread because you're interested in Legacy, or are you one of those that just want to see the world burn? Because it seems that you are more interested in posting to see your own 'dogmatic strawman' words rather having a REAL dialogue.
NB: I wish that the Legacy sub-forums has the same rules of the Modern sub-forums protects the discussions from going south.
"The Modern forum is for people who want to play the Modern Format. Posting for the sole purpose of bashing Modern will be infracted."
I apologize. I forgot it was April Fools'. Well played, sir.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingFirst off im not bashing legacy, I play it. Im just saying, as the thread title is about, is that the format is at risk. WOTC and scg are dropping support to the format. We get less and less legacy gp/scgopens.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25452_StarCityGamescom-Organized-Play-Update.html
star city changed some weekends to no longer have legacy on sunday already this year and I would only expect more of this as time goes on. It only makes sense with weekends like indy with over 400 players for standard and only around 100-200 players for legacy. Why wouldn't they change sundays to a format that draws more players, they make more money that way. This is pure fundamental logic that you cannot deny.
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
The other twenty-one Sundays still feature Legacy Opens, and we have no intention of abandoning our support of the format. However, one of the key factors in the success of StarCityGames.com's Organized Play programs has been our willingness to try new things. Experimenting with alternate formats in a handful of locations is simply another example of that.
A quote from that article you posted.
-Niv-Mizzet
Holy cow, from 377 players on Saturday down to 179 on Sunday. They didn't even break even. Basically, they got a below average Legacy turnout, except they don't manage to sell or buy cards from any Legacy players on Sunday, and they are unable to grow Legacy interest in the region.
Epic fail.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the Buylisting:symb::symu::symg: BUG Tempo
:symb::symg::symw: JUNK
:symg::symr::symb: JUND
Currently Building:
:symu::symw: Miracle Control
:symb::symu::symr: ANT
The only argument I have heard that legacy will die is because cards will be destroyed and the reserve list will stop wizards from printing anymore.
This is the biggest piece of horse **** I've ever heard. These arguments are all rooted in theory crafting and fear mongering. The reality is that there are a finite number of ANY card AND not being on the reserve list doesn't guarantee a reprint or access to a reprint.
All I have are REAL personal experiences that Legacy is growing and becoming more popular. In the last 2 months I've attended 3 local events. 2/3 years ago these events were lucky to break 20 players. The last 2 months have boasted 41 players, 72 players and 42 players(capped) I see new faces at my LGS. Last weekend 3 players I know from other formats made their legacy debut. 2 of them placing top 8/42 players. I know guys trading off their standard for legacy. (Rotation is coming and every year a certain number of players migrate to legacy)
Legacy may get more expensive and exclusive but it will not die.
Here's some more pure fundamental logic rooted in finances for ya: It is majorly against WOTC's financial interests for no strong/popular format which uses cards from the inception of the game to exist. The short-term applications of Standard help encourage people to buy new product, but the long-term assurance customers have that their cardboard will never be useless cannot be underestimated either. This role has been played by early days "simply Magic", has been played by Vintage, is currently being played by Legacy, and may someday way down the line be played by a morphed Legacy without dual lands--just an off the cuff example--or whatever, but the spirit will remain, and the torch certainly won't be carried by some format that effectively has a 5,500 card banned list (training wheels regulation doesn't help either).
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
What happens when those customers who own non-Modern cards become a small minority? Let's say 10 or 15 years down the road, assuming the game stays healthy and growing, only 1% of players really own many Legacy cards of value. That's probably pretty close to accurate. Doesn't it make more sense to have an "Eternal" format where they can control the supply and profit from reprints as well as new sets? Financially speaking, Modern (or something like it) is a no brainer to fill that role you're talking about.
I don't understand how Modern has failed it's goal? Could you explain?
Recently bloodbraid elf banned. Looks like eggs is going to be the next casualty. There are no "balancing cards" in modern so the course of action is banning cards to create the desired format. This leads to players being unable to play the cards they want to in the attempt to create a format specific clock. This means you can't always do something in modern that you want to; in essence killing some of the fun.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
I'd agree with you that Modern is more financially stable than Legacy in the long run (mostly because of the reserved list). However, I don't see Modern becoming the eternal format of choice in at least another five years at least. The real issue Wizards is having right now is finding a balance with Modern's card pool that neither seems too broken nor too underpowered. IMO, they've gone a bit too far towards the underpowered end of the spectrum, which is why I've been working on getting into Legacy. Even with built-in financial sustainability, Modern needs to find a more stable, positive identity than being the 'banhammer happy' format like Weapon X said.
Currently Playing and/or Building:
Legacy:
BUG Shardless BUG BUG
BUG Team America BUG
UBRG Cabal ANT UBRG
Are you joking? First Jace is banned. Thoughtseize has been over the 30$ mark for YEARS now, along with Tarmogoyf's price tag. Modern has JUST blown up as a format since the last Pro Tour, as you can see from MTGStocks. Why don't you actually do some research instead of spewing out random facts you clearly know nothing about?
I'm going to have to ask you to explain what you just wrote, even if I don't challenge your hypothetical that Legacy will become the next Vintage, by which I assume you mean "effectively a dead format". (For the record, I strongly refute that notion, but this has been discussed to death already on this thread by a number of posters, including myself.) How is that "faaaar worse than dying ^^"? We still get to play with more or less the same player base as currently exists (even ignoring the fact that the Legacy player base is in fact expanding)? Sounds pretty sweet to me. Is the catch that we have to continue to hear from Modern players about how Legacy will continue to die, the same way that we incessantly have to answer the doorbell to listen to Jehovah's Witnesses tell us how the end of the world is come? I mean, technically, the world will suffer the same inevitable "entropic death" which Legacy doomsayers love to spout as a talking point, which probably started when some high schooler pulled it out of his introductory physics book.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingI posted this before, and I did the research.
Before modern was announced. Goyf was 50, Bob and thought seize were 20. Modern was announced spring of 2011.
Check it out yourself smarty pants
http://www.blacklotusproject.com
That is the result of a Google Trends search for Force of Will. Most interesting is how queries peak in October and March and have been steadily increasing that way over the past five years. If interest in Force of Will is at a record high, interest in Legacy must be at a record high. The problem with Legacy is certainly not due to a lack of popularity.
note: I'm note sure how accurately Force of Will on Google relates to magic. Many cards do not have as well defined a graph as Force of Will gets.
http://www.google.com/trends/explore?hl=en-US#q=magic%3A%20the%20gathering&cmpt=q > interest in Magic: the Gathering. Then again, none of us are going around entering 'magic the gathering' into Google. Also, pre-2007 was a totally different internet...I feel like every search carried more weight back then.
Legacy:
RWBG Goblins
RRR Burn
WBU Affinity
UBR Sac-Land Tendrils!
BBBPox
Next possible deck: D&T, but that just wouldn't be right.
Modern: R Goblins (work in progress)
Standard: I only care about standard when Goblins is a deck.
Limited: I only care about limited when Goblins are in the set.
Pauper:
RGoblins
URCloudpost
other decks
Goblins.