I was going to mention Choke. If you run a couple Horizon Canopies and a couple Savannah, that combination with Moxen should support a tiny splash for Choke. At least it worked well enough for such a Stax deck to take first at a SCG open a few years back.
Castle does get neutered by Humility, but Factory gets neutered by Moat (though Elspeth can help).
We are just NEVER going to be the agro deck in any matchup...
Edit: also... it may seem odd, and it would be an interesting sideboard, but if you do transform into the agro deck, i'd say throw out some gaddock teegs to stop both of the for mentioned cards
Well, I'm not saying I want to transform into aggro deck, I just want more pressure options. Against something like miracles, I would probably board out 2-3 Moat and Humility each, for Anti-Control answers like Faith's Fetters, Idyllic to look for Orings, etc. This is the other reason why I'm contemplating Gargoyle Castle. Also Karn.
I was going to mention Choke. If you run a couple Horizon Canopies and a couple Savannah, that combination with Moxen should support a tiny splash for Choke. At least it worked well enough for such a Stax deck to take first at a SCG open a few years back.
Choke is interesting indeed. Outpost + Savannah is still very synergistic, I may consider this. Thanks
What's the purpose of Gargoyle Castle in a deck focused on Humility? Seems like 4x Mishra's Factory is much better.
Here is my Logic. Berks, you may be correct, and I agree Factory > all, because technically, after your Humility your factory is still 2/2. And Gargoyles are better with just moat in play. Crucible of Worlds allows you to sit behind Moat/Humility lock and make a small army of Gargoyles.
You can either Oring your own Humility then swing with gargoyles, or your opponent will be less inclined to get rid of Humility of they are staring at a few Gargoyles. Not saying that I would ever do that, but vs. Most Aggro and combo decks, you get a lock out, then I run 4 elspeths to nearly garauntee I'll see one to start chipping away at Life Totals.
The 2x Gargoyle Castle is a way to dodge counterspells and to put pressure on opposing Planeswalkers in the Control Mirror, post-board. Moat/Humility are kind of dead v. control decks that rely on JTMS to win. So I may board out 2/2, 3/3 even, for more proactive answers a la Batterskull, etc.
Why ratchet bomb instead of powder keg? In our matchup with affinity, powder keg destroys their artifact lands. I guess ratchet bomb would be good for planeswalkers but that would take 4+ turns to accumulate for the most dangerous walkers. Im looking around for some humilites to try out dutchstaxx it looks good. Right now im running geddonstax with 2 Wurmcoil Engine and 1 batterskull, i love the interaction with smokestacks, buried ruin, and wurmcoil engine and the new Trading Post land seems work well with them aswell.
I like both, really. However, Humility/Moat lock stops all aggro in its tracks. Plus Wasteland/Ghost Quarter|Crucible Lock eats Affinity for breakfast.
The reason why I'm leaning towards Ratchet Bomb instead of Powder Keg is indeed the possibility of killing PWs/Enchants.
Mostly to kill Delvers/Mongoose and X Entreat the Angels Tokens game 2-3. I know it takes both a while to get to 4 counters, but it's Stax haha... And they come in vs. Slow control matches anyway.
i would really recommend against the kjeldoran outpost i get the feeling you're going to wish it was a basic land most of the time, especially when your opponent is sitting on a wasteland, or if you're trying out the chokes maybe a Savannah? also more suppression fields really hurt control decks with tops, fetches, and planeswalkers... Phyrexian Revoker isn't too bad either, he is both aggressive and disruptive (like a kid who hits puberty early... ok bad joke~)
i would really recommend against the kjeldoran outpost i get the feeling you're going to wish it was a basic land most of the time, especially when your opponent is sitting on a wasteland, or if you're trying out the chokes maybe a Savannah? also more suppression fields really hurt control decks with tops, fetches, and planeswalkers... Phyrexian Revoker isn't too bad either, he is both aggressive and disruptive (like a kid who hits puberty early... ok bad joke~)
Yeah, If I try Choke + Savannah, I might drop the outpost. I don't want to be vulnerable to wasteland more than I am, before crucible is out anyways.
i personally run 1 savannah, 1 horizon canopy and the 4 moxen and don't have problem splashing for my 3x choke and 3x krosan grips in the sideboard. note that savannah is easily tutored for with flagstone of trokair which i run as a 4 of. i often play a 2nd flagstones to get it to trigger, or wastland it, or smokestack.
i personally run 1 savannah, 1 horizon canopy and the 4 moxen and don't have problem splashing for my 3x choke and 3x krosan grips in the sideboard. note that savannah is easily tutored for with flagstone of trokair which i run as a 4 of. i often play a 2nd flagstones to get it to trigger, or wastland it, or smokestack.
All this talk (excitement) about Choke, I adjusted my build to accommodate G splash. I read the primers of Dutch Stax on TheSource, and I think I'll go back to the drawing board, so to speak. I guess I'm going about at the Control/ U/W miracle match all wrong. Choke makes sense. The SB of this style of deck should compliment and make your bad matches stronger, not "transform" to anything else, like other decks do.
Thanks all for helping me with this deck, I've never been a control player I love this deck cause it's non-blue control (I always go against mainstream). Anyways, here is an adjusted list...
I thought people tended to drop a City if they didn't want/need to run 8x 2-lands. Why did you choose to drop a Tomb instead of a City?
In general, I like this a lot more. I like running more copies of fewer cards. =) 2 Trinispheres is pretty daring. I've always tried to build Stax with an eye towards landing as many first turn Chalices and Trinispheres as possible. I get that the list is tight and something's gotta give, though. If I were to cut something, it might be an Elspeth. She's needed late in the game, when you have drawn more cards (i.e. are more likely to have drawn an Elspeth). Trinisphere is best early, when you haven't drawn as many cards (i.e. you want more copies to increase the chances of finding one). If you get extra Trinispheres, just cast them as backup and for Stax fodder.
As an aside, I love non-blue control. My favorite deck happens to be Death and Taxes. As an additional benefit, if you've gotten fancy Guru Plains or anything for Stax, you can reuse them in D&T. =)
I thought people tended to drop a City if they didn't want/need to run 8x 2-lands. Why did you choose to drop a Tomb instead of a City?
In general, I like this a lot more. I like running more copies of fewer cards. =) 2 Trinispheres is pretty daring. I've always tried to build Stax with an eye towards landing as many first turn Chalices and Trinispheres as possible. I get that the list is tight and something's gotta give, though. If I were to cut something, it might be an Elspeth. She's needed late in the game, when you have drawn more cards (i.e. are more likely to have drawn an Elspeth). Trinisphere is best early, when you haven't drawn as many cards (i.e. you want more copies to increase the chances of finding one). If you get extra Trinispheres, just cast them as backup and for Stax fodder.
As an aside, I love non-blue control. My favorite deck happens to be Death and Taxes. As an additional benefit, if you've gotten fancy Guru Plains or anything for Stax, you can reuse them in D&T. =)
I suppose if I leave the MD batterskull, I can:
-1 Elspeth
+1 3sphere
Idea behind Tomb vs. City, It's mainly cause of the 4 Horizon Canopy, but I can adjust that as well.
All my plains are the full art unhinged :D, I run Unhinged Island in Spiral Tide, but Beta Mountain (Dark) in Gobs, Beta basics in ANT/Lands (also all dark)..,
This way you also free up a sideboard slot. EDIT: 4 Canopies also seems like a lot. I might rather have another Tomb. It would still be 13 land sources of W. I think my Geddon Stax list has around 11 land sources of W, but it doesn't have any WW costs. Are your 14 land sources necessary to run all the WW cards?
And yeah, I run Unhinged basics in all my serious decks. I just said Guru lands cause they're famous and stuff. /shrug
anyone thought about using Abolish if your not splashing green? Just in case you don't have a trinisphere in play you can always do this, and even if you don't you expect to play 3 for your spells already. This is a sb card at best however.
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This way you also free up a sideboard slot. EDIT: 4 Canopies also seems like a lot. I might rather have another Tomb. It would still be 13 land sources of W. I think my Geddon Stax list has around 11 land sources of W, but it doesn't have any WW costs. Are your 14 land sources necessary to run all the WW cards?
And yeah, I run Unhinged basics in all my serious decks. I just said Guru lands cause they're famous and stuff. /shrug
Yeah, I'm trying to Maximize chances of having 2WW on turn 2 or if someone counters Mox Diamond/Chalice @ 0, I'm not cold to disruption.
anyone thought about using Abolish if your not splashing green? Just in case you don't have a trinisphere in play you can always do this, and even if you don't you expect to play 3 for your spells already. This is a sb card at best however.
Abolish is great, however, the reason of Krosan Grip is a catch all... I've lost to miracle player who boarded into Counterbalance leaving Entreat the Angels on top of Library via Divining Top... Hits Oring, Crucible, then just bided his time to Disenchant Humility then EoT Entreat... Was very frustrating.
K-grip would have given me a chance at least, like seeing him leave JTMS on top to counter my 4 drops, then at right time k-grip.
anyone thought about using Abolish if your not splashing green? Just in case you don't have a trinisphere in play you can always do this, and even if you don't you expect to play 3 for your spells already. This is a sb card at best however.
if not splashing green i'd say the best disenchant style card would be aura of silence since it also goes along with the taxing game plan... also it's an amazing card for the mirror, and really good for affinity
Edit: and good for enchantress if anyone still plays that
if not splashing green i'd say the best disenchant style card would be aura of silence since it also goes along with the taxing game plan... also it's an amazing card for the mirror, and really good for affinity
Edit: and good for enchantress if anyone still plays that
I've had a hard time with Aura of silence because of it's WW cost, and I've preferred using Patrician's Scorn or Seal of Cleansing. Affinity is not something I consider in SB slots, because the matchup is so good.
I had quite an interesting match versus a RG aggro deck last night. He used Rancor to circumvent my Smokestack. I was very impressed by this counter-strategy, as it forced me to bring my Stack to two counters to kill any of his permanents. Luckily I could do it thanks to Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai, I also o-ringed the Rancor and then won the game.
That made me think that I could try out a green aggro-control deck with a Stax shell, using lots of creatures and rancor, plus the Stax artifacts. Could be cool.
ALSO, I've been playing with two Trading Posts, and I must say I was very impressed with the results. It would net me lots of life, create a lineup of Smokestack fodder, and draw me a card when I don't need the smokestack anymore or when I draw Crucible to replace Post. All in all, great addition!
I see a lot of Karmic Justice in the sideboards but I can't figure out why. Is this card any good? Against what kind of deck? Thanks (:
It's something to board in against Krosan Grips or Ancient grudges. Primarily though, it stops Pernicious Deed absolutely destroying you.
I have no idea if it's any good: it's probably too narrow. I guess it could be used if your meta is full of Rock decks with Deed, but if that's the case, Stax is a pretty poor choice of deck, and Karmic Justice isn't powerful enough to offset that.
Mostly for containing splash damage for anti-Enchantress/Affinity hate. Things like Serenity that would blow up most of our lock pieces. To be honest I haven't seen nearly as much of the card in recently posted lists, but like all sideboard choices it's a meta consideration.
Thanks for the tips. Now I have played several times on cockatrice the deck and I really like it but recently I had to face Gaddock Teeg and I lost every time :/ He's a tough one and there was nothing I could do about him.
Thanks for the tips. Now I have played several times on cockatrice the deck and I really like it but recently I had to face Gaddock Teeg and I lost every time :/ He's a tough one and there was nothing I could do about him.
or if you can get off a chalice for 2 early enough
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Lots of decks that would play Teeg also play Zenith, and Chalice won't stop Zenith (for Teeg). Of course, getting Chalices out early is a good thing anyway, and would stop any Teegs in their hand.
Thanks for the tips. Now I have played several times on cockatrice the deck and I really like it but recently I had to face Gaddock Teeg and I lost every time :/ He's a tough one and there was nothing I could do about him.
if Gaddock Teeg is your biggest worry at the moment, (depending on your build) you can have a sideboard with 2-3 Nevermore if you have a white heavy deck... it's also an all around answer to <insert-annoying-spell-here> not bad against combo... otherwise you can also up your karakas count to 2 maindeck, and bump up the oblivion ring count?
This is my favorite legacy deck and from time to time I check up on new sets to see if they printed anything that I could add to improve on it. I recall the main weaknesses of this deck are dealing with heavy permission and heavy discard. The deck doesn't run anything to fix the draws, so often times you have to send to the bin some real meat and potatoes when they cast a discard effect.
If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard Loxodon Smiter, put it onto the battlefield instead of putting it into your graveyard.
Wins the game after 5 attacks
Now if you start running a version of the deck with Smiter, you probably want to cut out Mishra's Factory since you now have to support W and G while running 4x Ancient Tomb and 4x City of Traitors. You might then take advantage of your new mana flexibility by running a maindeck Sylvan Library to help deal with draw consistency issues.
That said, if you want to maindeck this build, it might not be as effective as you want it to be against blue. It's very rare that they're able to counter your creatures when you land Trinisphere/Stax, and if you cast the Loxodon Smiter without control of the game it will get removed easily. At least you can get Mishra's Factory back after they remove it by using Crucible of Worlds. So my initial feeling is that reforming the mana base to support green is best suited for making it easier to consistently cast effective sideboard cards like Choke. And maindecking Smiter is probably not the best build. But I'd like to hear more thoughts on this.
It's an interesting idea, but I'm pretty sure I prefer the builds with Humility and Trading Post. Keep in mind the casting cost of Knight of the Reliquary was considered the dealbreaker when it was being tested, and IMO it fits even better into a deck of utility lands and Crucibles.
In short I agree; this doesn't make me want to invest in maindeck green mana costs.
It's an interesting idea, but I'm pretty sure I prefer the builds with Humility and Trading Post. Keep in mind the casting cost of Knight of the Reliquary was considered the dealbreaker when it was being tested, and IMO it fits even better into a deck of utility lands and Crucibles.
In short I agree; this doesn't make me want to invest in maindeck green mana costs.
This sums it up pretty well. I would rather make my use of Green mana for Sylvan Library or something useful that shores up Stax's weaknesses.
This may be common knowledge, but it took me by surprise when it happened to me and I didn't see anything in the thread about it so I figured I'd post: Cavern of Souls prevents creatures from being countered by Chalice of the Void! So keep that in mind. Even if you play a turn 1 Chalice for 1, your opponent can still go Cavern -> Goblin Lackey. Even more evidence for the superiority of the Humility version, I think.
This may be common knowledge, but it took me by surprise when it happened to me and I didn't see anything in the thread about it so I figured I'd post: Cavern of Souls prevents creatures from being countered by Chalice of the Void! So keep that in mind. Even if you play a turn 1 Chalice for 1, your opponent can still go Cavern -> Goblin Lackey. Even more evidence for the superiority of the Humility version, I think.
Having tried the Magus/Armageddon Stax build, and the Trading Post/Elspeth/Humility build, I don't think it makes a difference. Cavern of Souls is difficult to deal with either way. In either case, we're looking to get something on the board that deflates creatures (Humility) or taxes creatures (Magus). And Armageddon Stax probably has more varied ways of destroying a Cavern.
People keep saying the Humility build is better placed than Magus+Armageddon in the current meta. I don't think it is unless we're talking about 4 Humility + 3/4 Moat: actual Dutch Stax, which is one of the most expensive legacy decks ever thought up.
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Castle does get neutered by Humility, but Factory gets neutered by Moat (though Elspeth can help).
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Well, I'm not saying I want to transform into aggro deck, I just want more pressure options. Against something like miracles, I would probably board out 2-3 Moat and Humility each, for Anti-Control answers like Faith's Fetters, Idyllic to look for Orings, etc. This is the other reason why I'm contemplating Gargoyle Castle. Also Karn.
Choke is interesting indeed. Outpost + Savannah is still very synergistic, I may consider this. Thanks
Here is my Logic. Berks, you may be correct, and I agree Factory > all, because technically, after your Humility your factory is still 2/2. And Gargoyles are better with just moat in play. Crucible of Worlds allows you to sit behind Moat/Humility lock and make a small army of Gargoyles.
You can either Oring your own Humility then swing with gargoyles, or your opponent will be less inclined to get rid of Humility of they are staring at a few Gargoyles. Not saying that I would ever do that, but vs. Most Aggro and combo decks, you get a lock out, then I run 4 elspeths to nearly garauntee I'll see one to start chipping away at Life Totals.
The 2x Gargoyle Castle is a way to dodge counterspells and to put pressure on opposing Planeswalkers in the Control Mirror, post-board. Moat/Humility are kind of dead v. control decks that rely on JTMS to win. So I may board out 2/2, 3/3 even, for more proactive answers a la Batterskull, etc.
I like both, really. However, Humility/Moat lock stops all aggro in its tracks. Plus Wasteland/Ghost Quarter|Crucible Lock eats Affinity for breakfast.
The reason why I'm leaning towards Ratchet Bomb instead of Powder Keg is indeed the possibility of killing PWs/Enchants.
Mostly to kill Delvers/Mongoose and X Entreat the Angels Tokens game 2-3. I know it takes both a while to get to 4 counters, but it's Stax haha... And they come in vs. Slow control matches anyway.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
i would really recommend against the kjeldoran outpost i get the feeling you're going to wish it was a basic land most of the time, especially when your opponent is sitting on a wasteland, or if you're trying out the chokes maybe a Savannah? also more suppression fields really hurt control decks with tops, fetches, and planeswalkers... Phyrexian Revoker isn't too bad either, he is both aggressive and disruptive (like a kid who hits puberty early... ok bad joke~)
BW Haakon, Stromgald Scourge: Tribal Knights BW
UWG Roon Astral Slide: Cycling and Sliding Based Deck UWG
Yeah, If I try Choke + Savannah, I might drop the outpost. I don't want to be vulnerable to wasteland more than I am, before crucible is out anyways.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
All this talk (excitement) about Choke, I adjusted my build to accommodate G splash. I read the primers of Dutch Stax on TheSource, and I think I'll go back to the drawing board, so to speak. I guess I'm going about at the Control/ U/W miracle match all wrong. Choke makes sense. The SB of this style of deck should compliment and make your bad matches stronger, not "transform" to anything else, like other decks do.
Thanks all for helping me with this deck, I've never been a control player I love this deck cause it's non-blue control (I always go against mainstream). Anyways, here is an adjusted list...
Thoughts?
3 Smokestack
4 Mox Diamond
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
1 Batterskull
Enchantements
4 Moat
4 Humility
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Land
4 City of Traitors
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Savannah
7 Plains
3 Choke
2 Trinisphere
1 Idyllic Tutor
3 Armageddon
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Krosan Grip
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
In general, I like this a lot more. I like running more copies of fewer cards. =) 2 Trinispheres is pretty daring. I've always tried to build Stax with an eye towards landing as many first turn Chalices and Trinispheres as possible. I get that the list is tight and something's gotta give, though. If I were to cut something, it might be an Elspeth. She's needed late in the game, when you have drawn more cards (i.e. are more likely to have drawn an Elspeth). Trinisphere is best early, when you haven't drawn as many cards (i.e. you want more copies to increase the chances of finding one). If you get extra Trinispheres, just cast them as backup and for Stax fodder.
As an aside, I love non-blue control. My favorite deck happens to be Death and Taxes. As an additional benefit, if you've gotten fancy Guru Plains or anything for Stax, you can reuse them in D&T. =)
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I suppose if I leave the MD batterskull, I can:
-1 Elspeth
+1 3sphere
Idea behind Tomb vs. City, It's mainly cause of the 4 Horizon Canopy, but I can adjust that as well.
All my plains are the full art unhinged :D, I run Unhinged Island in Spiral Tide, but Beta Mountain (Dark) in Gobs, Beta basics in ANT/Lands (also all dark)..,
Guru is pretty sweet though.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
And yeah, I run Unhinged basics in all my serious decks. I just said Guru lands cause they're famous and stuff. /shrug
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
Yeah, I'm trying to Maximize chances of having 2WW on turn 2 or if someone counters Mox Diamond/Chalice @ 0, I'm not cold to disruption.
Abolish is great, however, the reason of Krosan Grip is a catch all... I've lost to miracle player who boarded into Counterbalance leaving Entreat the Angels on top of Library via Divining Top... Hits Oring, Crucible, then just bided his time to Disenchant Humility then EoT Entreat... Was very frustrating.
K-grip would have given me a chance at least, like seeing him leave JTMS on top to counter my 4 drops, then at right time k-grip.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
if not splashing green i'd say the best disenchant style card would be aura of silence since it also goes along with the taxing game plan... also it's an amazing card for the mirror, and really good for affinity
Edit: and good for enchantress if anyone still plays that
BW Haakon, Stromgald Scourge: Tribal Knights BW
UWG Roon Astral Slide: Cycling and Sliding Based Deck UWG
I've had a hard time with Aura of silence because of it's WW cost, and I've preferred using Patrician's Scorn or Seal of Cleansing. Affinity is not something I consider in SB slots, because the matchup is so good.
I had quite an interesting match versus a RG aggro deck last night. He used Rancor to circumvent my Smokestack. I was very impressed by this counter-strategy, as it forced me to bring my Stack to two counters to kill any of his permanents. Luckily I could do it thanks to Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai, I also o-ringed the Rancor and then won the game.
That made me think that I could try out a green aggro-control deck with a Stax shell, using lots of creatures and rancor, plus the Stax artifacts. Could be cool.
ALSO, I've been playing with two Trading Posts, and I must say I was very impressed with the results. It would net me lots of life, create a lineup of Smokestack fodder, and draw me a card when I don't need the smokestack anymore or when I draw Crucible to replace Post. All in all, great addition!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
It's something to board in against Krosan Grips or Ancient grudges. Primarily though, it stops Pernicious Deed absolutely destroying you.
I have no idea if it's any good: it's probably too narrow. I guess it could be used if your meta is full of Rock decks with Deed, but if that's the case, Stax is a pretty poor choice of deck, and Karmic Justice isn't powerful enough to offset that.
Also, what Ecophagy said. =)
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
Karakas and o-ring are decent answers.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
or if you can get off a chalice for 2 early enough
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
if Gaddock Teeg is your biggest worry at the moment, (depending on your build) you can have a sideboard with 2-3 Nevermore if you have a white heavy deck... it's also an all around answer to <insert-annoying-spell-here> not bad against combo... otherwise you can also up your karakas count to 2 maindeck, and bump up the oblivion ring count?
BW Haakon, Stromgald Scourge: Tribal Knights BW
UWG Roon Astral Slide: Cycling and Sliding Based Deck UWG
This is my favorite legacy deck and from time to time I check up on new sets to see if they printed anything that I could add to improve on it. I recall the main weaknesses of this deck are dealing with heavy permission and heavy discard. The deck doesn't run anything to fix the draws, so often times you have to send to the bin some real meat and potatoes when they cast a discard effect.
Loxodon Smiter
Now if you start running a version of the deck with Smiter, you probably want to cut out Mishra's Factory since you now have to support W and G while running 4x Ancient Tomb and 4x City of Traitors. You might then take advantage of your new mana flexibility by running a maindeck Sylvan Library to help deal with draw consistency issues.
That said, if you want to maindeck this build, it might not be as effective as you want it to be against blue. It's very rare that they're able to counter your creatures when you land Trinisphere/Stax, and if you cast the Loxodon Smiter without control of the game it will get removed easily. At least you can get Mishra's Factory back after they remove it by using Crucible of Worlds. So my initial feeling is that reforming the mana base to support green is best suited for making it easier to consistently cast effective sideboard cards like Choke. And maindecking Smiter is probably not the best build. But I'd like to hear more thoughts on this.
In short I agree; this doesn't make me want to invest in maindeck green mana costs.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
This sums it up pretty well. I would rather make my use of Green mana for Sylvan Library or something useful that shores up Stax's weaknesses.
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Having tried the Magus/Armageddon Stax build, and the Trading Post/Elspeth/Humility build, I don't think it makes a difference. Cavern of Souls is difficult to deal with either way. In either case, we're looking to get something on the board that deflates creatures (Humility) or taxes creatures (Magus). And Armageddon Stax probably has more varied ways of destroying a Cavern.
People keep saying the Humility build is better placed than Magus+Armageddon in the current meta. I don't think it is unless we're talking about 4 Humility + 3/4 Moat: actual Dutch Stax, which is one of the most expensive legacy decks ever thought up.