okay so I am starting to finally get my act together and piece together this deck so I had a few questions as this deck would be my baptism into the legacy format.
1) in a control mirror or a storm deck would you get top and counterbalance out as quickly as possible? even if it meant tapping out since you can daze or fow?
2) would you consider the turn two dreadnought stifle pass turn play smart or would you hold off until you could protect it more?
basically i am just wondering how aggressively or responsively youd play since the Ur version of the deck does not run cards to neuter the opponents hand. I ahve a few more questions but those are the most pressing and i often wonder how long i can hold out and just attack with factorys until risking a dreadnought stifle and beckoning a counterwar against a deck with more counterspells/goyfs.
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"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
—Ertai, wizard adept
okay so I am starting to finally get my act together and piece together this deck so I had a few questions as this deck would be my baptism into the legacy format.
1) in a control mirror or a storm deck would you get top and counterbalance out as quickly as possible? even if it meant tapping out since you can daze or fow?
2) would you consider the turn two dreadnought stifle pass turn play smart or would you hold off until you could protect it more?
basically i am just wondering how aggressively or responsively youd play since the Ur version of the deck does not run cards to neuter the opponents hand. I ahve a few more questions but those are the most pressing and i often wonder how long i can hold out and just attack with factorys until risking a dreadnought stifle and beckoning a counterwar against a deck with more counterspells/goyfs.
has anyone ever answered you?
Okay first off are you talking about the Ur or the Urg version?
but here are some general answers.One you should check out the official primer on the source.When it comes to Urg jv is possibly the best to talk to.If you need Ur advice me or rood is the person to talk to.
but yeah to your question.In a storm matchup knowing your going against storm your first play is always to get out a countertop lock...once you have them locked you can win at your leisure never risk a dreadnought and give them that one turn its all they need.same thing goes for the countertop mirror.You are always the better control deck and you have a 12/12 to break though clogged lines.
and when it comes to knowing when you want to cast the nought.usually you want to cast it when you have some counters in hand...but it is a must answer spell so if you need to semi wrath cast it and watch them gangblock it.and more question write them on here or the source.
Thanks a lot and since you asked, yes you're the first one to answer me. Over the months I have been learning and becoming a much better at piloting this and I did accept that there is no 'best time' to do things. You're advice makes sense my biggest problem still is that I tend to be more defensive forgetting that this can become more of an aggro deck then I give it credit for (a 12/12 trample is nothing to laugh at).
Anyway thanks and cheers
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"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
—Ertai, wizard adept
Is this still a competetive deck? I want to make it because it's so powerful but i never see it in the top 16's and stuff are there reasons it's not being played?
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Standard: Esper Spirits-WUB
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG
Idk, its still powerful to kind of answer your question.
Honestly, qasali pridemage and krosan grip are a beating. Those cards are the main downfall of this deck, but if played well it can still reel in wins.
Well im very new to the whole legacy format, and me and my playtesting group have jsut fully proxied up a few legacy decks to try and get a feel for the format, and dreadstill has quickly become my favorite deck. Unfortunately though the very standard mono white stax deck has been giving me huge issues. It dosent seem to matter what he pulls, every card hurts me and it seems once my counter-wall runs out, im practically defenseless against the lockdown. I should also add that we have done no sideboarding, but i was thinking of adding tyrogen predator for an extra beater as well as some artifact hate (another huge part of the meta we've created is affinity as well), is that getting to close to threshhold? Any advice would be appriciated
Well im very new to the whole legacy format, and me and my playtesting group have jsut fully proxied up a few legacy decks to try and get a feel for the format, and dreadstill has quickly become my favorite deck. Unfortunately though the very standard mono white stax deck has been giving me huge issues. It dosent seem to matter what he pulls, every card hurts me and it seems once my counter-wall runs out, im practically defenseless against the lockdown. I should also add that we have done no sideboarding, but i was thinking of adding tyrogen predator for an extra beater as well as some artifact hate (another huge part of the meta we've created is affinity as well), is that getting to close to threshhold? Any advice would be appriciated
Well im very new to the whole legacy format, and me and my playtesting group have jsut fully proxied up a few legacy decks to try and get a feel for the format, and dreadstill has quickly become my favorite deck. Unfortunately though the very standard mono white stax deck has been giving me huge issues. It dosent seem to matter what he pulls, every card hurts me and it seems once my counter-wall runs out, im practically defenseless against the lockdown. I should also add that we have done no sideboarding, but i was thinking of adding tyrogen predator for an extra beater as well as some artifact hate (another huge part of the meta we've created is affinity as well), is that getting to close to threshhold? Any advice would be appriciated
Stax, The Rock, Landstill, and any other good deck that has lots of removal are the bane of Dreadstill, which by its nature is a 2-for-1 waiting to happen. The good matchups are decks that want to create a single event on their side and ride it to victory because Dreadstill is better at stopping a single event than any other deck in the format.
I'm not sure what to cut, i don't wanna go below 3 daze.
That list is long 1 card, 22 lands listed. For that you probably want to go to 3 Wasteland or 3 Mishra's. A lot of people suggest going 3/3 on those in the 3 color lists with an extra colored mana source.
If you want to go to 3 Sensei's Divining Top then you probably are talking cutting either a Counterbalance or a Spell Snare. Some lists do both and add 1 Trickbind also to help the blue mirror. You could also probably choose to go with 3 Standstill, particularly if you are adverse to going to 3 Counterbalance.
That list is long 1 card, 22 lands listed. For that you probably want to go to 3 Wasteland or 3 Mishra's. A lot of people suggest going 3/3 on those in the 3 color lists with an extra colored mana source.
If you want to go to 3 Sensei's Divining Top then you probably are talking cutting either a Counterbalance or a Spell Snare. Some lists do both and add 1 Trickbind also to help the blue mirror. You could also probably choose to go with 3 Standstill, particularly if you are adverse to going to 3 Counterbalance.
Ah yes, there are actually 22 lands in the deck, i guess i'll test going down to 2 spell snare first, then 3 CB. The only reason i don't wanna go down to 3 CB is because the entire reason of going to 3 tops was to get countertop online shortly, but perhaps i won't need it that often. Thank you for the help.
Ah yes, there are actually 22 lands in the deck, i guess i'll test going down to 2 spell snare first, then 3 CB. The only reason i don't wanna go down to 3 CB is because the entire reason of going to 3 tops was to get countertop online shortly, but perhaps i won't need it that often. Thank you for the help.
If you split 3/3 on SDT and CB you get the combo into play more often than if you split 2/4. That's because SDT finds you Counterbalance quicker than you'd normally fish it.
The deck definitely wants to have the option of CounterTop available as often as possible so your move to 3 SDT is a good one.
I've done well in two vintage tourneys with versions of dreadnought (vmask and ub) but I'm going to play Legacy this weekend. One card I've been considering to make up for the lost tutors is Dizzy Spell. Has anyone tried this in counternought or noughtbalance, and thoughts?
Edit: Reason I mention it is that in addition to the transmute (keys like stife, nought, and top), it can help confidants or factories (or whatever small creatures are in the flavor) block when your opponent would not expect you to sacrifice them as a chump, and it's blue, so it pitches to force.
I'm trying to keep it pretty budget right now which is why I'm not splashing any colors and why I'm using a 3/3 split between Stifle and Vision Charm rather than 4/2 (I already own 3 Stifle). SDT at 2 is partially for that reason and partially because Tricket Mage can find it.
Would Trickbind be better than Vision Charm? I see most lists using Trickbind, but Vision Charm costs less and can protect the Dreadnought, so I'm not sure.
I'm trying to stay somewhat budget, but I still want to make it competitive, so if something is needed, I can make the investment.
I'm trying to keep it pretty budget right now which is why I'm not splashing any colors and why I'm using a 3/3 split between Stifle and Vision Charm rather than 4/2 (I already own 3 Stifle). SDT at 2 is partially for that reason and partially because Tricket Mage can find it.
Would Trickbind be better than Vision Charm? I see most lists using Trickbind, but Vision Charm costs less and can protect the Dreadnought, so I'm not sure.
I'm trying to stay somewhat budget, but I still want to make it competitive, so if something is needed, I can make the investment.
You only have 11 2cc spells in that list unless I'm missing something. That means one of two things, either you should up your 2cc count, which Trickbind does nicely, or you should run at least 3 Spell Snare in your counter set.
Would it matter which kind? Other than a split for pithing needle purposes? I am transitioning from standand and have scalding tarns available. Would these fill the role seemlessly? Or is this another avenue i'm not seeing?
I guess it would depend on what your manabase looks like. If you have any basic lands other than Islands, you'll obviously want the appropriate fetchland, but if you manabase is just Islands and Dual Lands, than anything that searches for Islands will do the same thing.
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Edit: going to take this opportunity to post my updated decklist.
I was so amazed by this deck that I just had to build it.
I started about a month ago and now have everything minus 2 force of wills, which is still key to the deck.
I must say that not only do I win alot but this deck gives me a great avenue to the most fun part of legacy. Opponents are often blown away by my ability to switch play styles in the middle of the game. I mulligan very timidly, keeping the most god aweful hands and because of that I have really pulled some amazing wins.
Examples from the past 2 weeks.
I overextended with 2 mishras, some islands and a standstill in play. My opponents pops it to reanimate iona, which I draw 3 lands (Need those FOWs) My turn comes, I play land, pass. He swings ,im at 7. My turn I lay a third factory and a relic, swing for 4, hes at 4. He could reanimate a haster in his graveyard except iv got a relic and 6 damage on the board. He scoops. I win with a iono on the board.
I was so amazed by this deck that I just had to build it.
I started about a month ago and now have everything minus 2 force of wills, which is still key to the deck.
I must say that not only do I win alot but this deck gives me a great avenue to the most fun part of legacy. Opponents are often blown away by my ability to switch play styles in the middle of the game. I mulligan very timidly, keeping the most god aweful hands and because of that I have really pulled some amazing wins.
Examples from the past 2 weeks.
I overextended with 2 mishras, some islands and a standstill in play. My opponents pops it to reanimate iona, which I draw 3 lands (Need those FOWs) My turn comes, I play land, pass. He swings ,im at 7. My turn I lay a third factory and a relic, swing for 4, hes at 4. He could reanimate a haster in his graveyard except iv got a relic and 6 damage on the board. He scoops. I win with a iono on the board.
How? From what I understand the plays went like this
His: Reanimate ion
you: pass
his: swing, you at 7
you: swing, him at 4
Going to build it for the 1.5 tourny at my local store in july.
I'm expecting a heavy aggro meta. Thinking running 2 firespout maindeck to control early zoo, merfolk, goblins etc.
Whats the most recent updates if any to the deck?
Was also thinking about splashing white for Meddling mage, Swords and maybe wrath to control aggro or is that a bad idea?
Please help me out! thanks:D
Firespout main deck is a meta call. It's a wonderful card in a Zoo, Merfolk, Goblins heavy meta. There's a good argument for putting in two Tropical Islands for Islands if you're going to do that so you have the option of having Firespout hit flyers against the tough outliers like Fairy Stompy and Faeries, it's also really nice to be able to kill a Sower of Temptation or Vendilion Clique.
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1) in a control mirror or a storm deck would you get top and counterbalance out as quickly as possible? even if it meant tapping out since you can daze or fow?
2) would you consider the turn two dreadnought stifle pass turn play smart or would you hold off until you could protect it more?
basically i am just wondering how aggressively or responsively youd play since the Ur version of the deck does not run cards to neuter the opponents hand. I ahve a few more questions but those are the most pressing and i often wonder how long i can hold out and just attack with factorys until risking a dreadnought stifle and beckoning a counterwar against a deck with more counterspells/goyfs.
"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
—Ertai, wizard adept
Legacy: UW Miracle, U MUC, UW StoneBlade, U Merfolk, R Burn, & UB Reanimator
EDH: U Azami, Lady of Scrolls & URG Riku of Two Reflections
Casual: UR Dragonstorm, UB Dralnu-Teachings, U NinjaFae, & UR Izzet EDH
has anyone ever answered you?
Okay first off are you talking about the Ur or the Urg version?
but here are some general answers.One you should check out the official primer on the source.When it comes to Urg jv is possibly the best to talk to.If you need Ur advice me or rood is the person to talk to.
but yeah to your question.In a storm matchup knowing your going against storm your first play is always to get out a countertop lock...once you have them locked you can win at your leisure never risk a dreadnought and give them that one turn its all they need.same thing goes for the countertop mirror.You are always the better control deck and you have a 12/12 to break though clogged lines.
and when it comes to knowing when you want to cast the nought.usually you want to cast it when you have some counters in hand...but it is a must answer spell so if you need to semi wrath cast it and watch them gangblock it.and more question write them on here or the source.
Anyway thanks and cheers
"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
—Ertai, wizard adept
Legacy: UW Miracle, U MUC, UW StoneBlade, U Merfolk, R Burn, & UB Reanimator
EDH: U Azami, Lady of Scrolls & URG Riku of Two Reflections
Casual: UR Dragonstorm, UB Dralnu-Teachings, U NinjaFae, & UR Izzet EDH
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG
Honestly, qasali pridemage and krosan grip are a beating. Those cards are the main downfall of this deck, but if played well it can still reel in wins.
That is a hard match. Have you tried Hurkyl's Recall or maybe even Annul to help with their artifacts? To destroy the artifacts there is always Krosan Grip" target="blank">Krosan Grip and Shattering Spree" target="blank">Shattering Spree. Toss in some graveyard hate like Relic of Progenitus" target="blank">Relic of Progenitus or Tormod's crypt so you can stop them from reusing all their lands from the gy?
"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
—Ertai, wizard adept
Legacy: UW Miracle, U MUC, UW StoneBlade, U Merfolk, R Burn, & UB Reanimator
EDH: U Azami, Lady of Scrolls & URG Riku of Two Reflections
Casual: UR Dragonstorm, UB Dralnu-Teachings, U NinjaFae, & UR Izzet EDH
Stax, The Rock, Landstill, and any other good deck that has lots of removal are the bane of Dreadstill, which by its nature is a 2-for-1 waiting to happen. The good matchups are decks that want to create a single event on their side and ride it to victory because Dreadstill is better at stopping a single event than any other deck in the format.
Would this be a good place to start
3x Trinket mage
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
3x Spellsnare
4x Stifle
2x Trickbind
4x Standstill
2x Sensei's divining top
4x Mishra's factory
2x Misty rainforest
4x Scalding tarn
3x wasteland
1x Watery grave
1x Volcanic island
1x Tropical island
The only card of the 49 that does not fit is Watery Grave.
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Trinket Mage
2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
Art/Ench (12):
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Standstill
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
I'm not sure what to cut, i don't wanna go below 3 daze.
That list is long 1 card, 22 lands listed. For that you probably want to go to 3 Wasteland or 3 Mishra's. A lot of people suggest going 3/3 on those in the 3 color lists with an extra colored mana source.
If you want to go to 3 Sensei's Divining Top then you probably are talking cutting either a Counterbalance or a Spell Snare. Some lists do both and add 1 Trickbind also to help the blue mirror. You could also probably choose to go with 3 Standstill, particularly if you are adverse to going to 3 Counterbalance.
Ah yes, there are actually 22 lands in the deck, i guess i'll test going down to 2 spell snare first, then 3 CB. The only reason i don't wanna go down to 3 CB is because the entire reason of going to 3 tops was to get countertop online shortly, but perhaps i won't need it that often. Thank you for the help.
If you split 3/3 on SDT and CB you get the combo into play more often than if you split 2/4. That's because SDT finds you Counterbalance quicker than you'd normally fish it.
The deck definitely wants to have the option of CounterTop available as often as possible so your move to 3 SDT is a good one.
Edit: Reason I mention it is that in addition to the transmute (keys like stife, nought, and top), it can help confidants or factories (or whatever small creatures are in the flavor) block when your opponent would not expect you to sacrifice them as a chump, and it's blue, so it pitches to force.
13 Island
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Mutavault
4 Trinket Mage
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
Enchantments: 8
4 Counterbalance
4 Standstill
Artifact: 3
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ponder
Instants: 17
3 Stifle
3 Vision Charm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
I'm trying to keep it pretty budget right now which is why I'm not splashing any colors and why I'm using a 3/3 split between Stifle and Vision Charm rather than 4/2 (I already own 3 Stifle). SDT at 2 is partially for that reason and partially because Tricket Mage can find it.
Would Trickbind be better than Vision Charm? I see most lists using Trickbind, but Vision Charm costs less and can protect the Dreadnought, so I'm not sure.
I'm trying to stay somewhat budget, but I still want to make it competitive, so if something is needed, I can make the investment.
[180 classic cube]
You only have 11 2cc spells in that list unless I'm missing something. That means one of two things, either you should up your 2cc count, which Trickbind does nicely, or you should run at least 3 Spell Snare in your counter set.
That should even up my 2 cmc spells and help damage mana bases more.
[180 classic cube]
Would it matter which kind? Other than a split for pithing needle purposes? I am transitioning from standand and have scalding tarns available. Would these fill the role seemlessly? Or is this another avenue i'm not seeing?
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Edit: going to take this opportunity to post my updated decklist.
4x Trinket Mage
3x Phyrexian Dreadnought
Instants: 19
4x Force of will
3x Daze
3x Trickbind
4x Brainstorm
3x Stifle
2x Spell Snare
Sorceries: 2
2x Ponder
4x Counterbalance
4x Standstill
2x Sensei's Divining top
1x Engineered Explosives
Land: 21
6x Island
2x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Flooded Strand
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Wasteland
3x Blood Moon
4x Red Elemental Blast
3x Blue Elemental Blast
3x Relic of Progenitus
1x Pithing Needle
1x Engineered Explosives
[180 classic cube]
Going to build it for the 1.5 tourny at my local store in july.
I'm expecting a heavy aggro meta. Thinking running 2 firespout maindeck to control early zoo, merfolk, goblins etc.
Whats the most recent updates if any to the deck?
Was also thinking about splashing white for Meddling mage, Swords and maybe wrath to control aggro or is that a bad idea?
Please help me out! thanks:D
I started about a month ago and now have everything minus 2 force of wills, which is still key to the deck.
I must say that not only do I win alot but this deck gives me a great avenue to the most fun part of legacy. Opponents are often blown away by my ability to switch play styles in the middle of the game. I mulligan very timidly, keeping the most god aweful hands and because of that I have really pulled some amazing wins.
Examples from the past 2 weeks.
I overextended with 2 mishras, some islands and a standstill in play. My opponents pops it to reanimate iona, which I draw 3 lands (Need those FOWs) My turn comes, I play land, pass. He swings ,im at 7. My turn I lay a third factory and a relic, swing for 4, hes at 4. He could reanimate a haster in his graveyard except iv got a relic and 6 damage on the board. He scoops. I win with a iono on the board.
How? From what I understand the plays went like this
His: Reanimate ion
you: pass
his: swing, you at 7
you: swing, him at 4
Why would he scoop?
My H/W list
Because I forgot to mention that iono was under the effect of animate dead and thus had -1 to power.
I have more examples or some good wins , As soon as I get some time I will post.
Firespout main deck is a meta call. It's a wonderful card in a Zoo, Merfolk, Goblins heavy meta. There's a good argument for putting in two Tropical Islands for Islands if you're going to do that so you have the option of having Firespout hit flyers against the tough outliers like Fairy Stompy and Faeries, it's also really nice to be able to kill a Sower of Temptation or Vendilion Clique.