ScapeWish is an evolution of Nic Fit that forgoes White for Red, which allows us to play Scapeshift as an alternate win-con, a Burning Wish sideboard, REB, Bonfire of the Damned, and Huntmaster of the Fells. Here's what a list might look like:
One of the nice things about ScapeWish us that you have more avenues of attack than Nic Fit. You can beat down with your creatures, but you can also cast Scapeshift for Valakut and Mountains for the win. Bonfire is a simply amazing top deck that smashes Affinity, Tribal, D&T, and RUG, yet with our ramp, hard casting it for 1 or 2 isn't out of the question.
Stomping Grounds might look wierd, but it's another Mountain card to be fetching of Scapeshift, so it's better to run than a fetch land.
Badd Business's old, preliminary version of ScapeWish can be found here.
Pretty sure the latest versions are more tuned than Badd B's, though, and they do look less weak to Burn and UR Delver. (In The Source, Arianrhod seems to be one of the premier ScapeWish developers, and I don't think s/he's Badd B.)
Huntmaster and Thraghusk both make Burn rather a non-issue. I usually assemble ScapeWish within 5 turns which gives us the option to straight up race Burn. It's effectively a 1 card combo with a tutor which is just insane.
Delver is slower than Burn, so it's easy. Plus Deed hits Delver pretty hard, as does Bonfire.
I like how you can slow-roll Valakut off of a PT, and am thinking of adding another over Wood Elves for that purpose. With 5 Mountains, PT fetches 2 Valakut and the pop just loses if he doesn't have an answer. You are effectively swinging for a trampling 18. I've beat StoneBlade decks like that. Many times. A second PT would let us grab it if the first hits a STP, and would deal 12 upon being cast. For that matter, an Explorer deals 12 when he dies too after PT lands. I find it somewhat hard to keep PT around to swing, but slowrolling after he hits a STP is quite solid.
This is a very noobish question, but whats the ideal scapeshift plan? To expand, what do you need to grab with scapeshift to make sure it does 20 points when its all said and done?
For 18 damage (often good enough when the opponent cracks fetches), go for 1 Valakut and 6 Mountains (Taiga and Badlands also count).
For 36 damage, go for 2 Valakut and 6 Mountains.
To dodge an uncracked Wasteland, go for 1 Valakut and 7 Mountains (Valakut still counts Mountains even if it leaves the battlefield in response to its triggers, but it has to count Mountains in order to successfully trigger).
Yes, this means you need at least 7 lands to combo off.
Got only 5 or fewer Mountains in the deck? For 24 damage, go for 2 Valakut and 4 Mountains! (Warning: requires two unsacrificed Mountains and 8 lands on the battlefield.)
-1 Wood Elves, -1 Pernicious Deed
+1 Sakura-Tribe Elder, +1 Bonfire of the Damned
Wood Elves is good, but the Elder is often better. Bonfire has proven a better sweeper than Deed in many matchups. I'm really loving this deck, I tear most creature based decks to shreds quite easily. High Tide is probably the worst matchup, a decent clock+counterspells makes it hard to race. Affinity is also pretty bad unless I get a lucky Deed/Bonfire.
Tim asked that I make a separate thread. *shrugs*.
Anyways, the deck is a lot of fun, but still kind of unfinished. I think I can make it more resiliant than it currently is
.......okay.
That aside, while the deck has a really strong finish, I can't shake the feeling it's a lot more durdley (have no idea how you spell that) then regular nic fit, the switch between the Scapeshift deck to the regular Nic Fit deck is awkward, and you seem to kind of go all in on a said plan, whether or not that is bad I'm not sure of.
Don't really know if the deck needs the 4 GSZ, you don't really run a creature tool box of any kind, and you already have top to smooth your draws, perhaps cut one for some more disruption?
That aside, while the deck has a really strong finish, I can't shake the feeling it's a lot more durdley (have no idea how you spell that) then regular nic fit, the switch between the Scapeshift deck to the regular Nic Fit deck is awkward, and you seem to kind of go all in on a said plan, whether or not that is bad I'm not sure of.
Don't really know if the deck needs the 4 GSZ, you don't really run a creature tool box of any kind, and you already have top to smooth your draws, perhaps cut one for some more disruption?
Not sure I'd want to cut GSZ, because we are more reliant on Explorer than regular Nic Fit is. Also, I frequently find myself searching for Primeval to break a stalled board. I'd love to make it less durdley, but I'm not sure how. The real issue is that the ScapeWish package simply takes up so much space, but there's no way around that I'm pretty sure.
I've actually not been too impressed with the tops and was thinking about cutting of of them for some disruption, maybe a Thoughtseize? What did you have in mind?
Scapewish is probably the best version of Nic Fit just due to the fact that Scapeshift is an auto win. Always have loved this deck. I like Wood Elves over the tribe elder though. As Ariorhod has said many times on the source, the fact that he comes in and gets an untapped land, which can either go to play a top that turn or whatever, plus he chumps or is flashback therapy fodder. None of which Sakura Tribe Elder can do, except chump plus ramp.
Scapewish is probably the best version of Nic Fit just due to the fact that Scapeshift is an auto win. Always have loved this deck. I like Wood Elves over the tribe elder though. As Ariorhod has said many times on the source, the fact that he comes in and gets an untapped land, which can either go to play a top that turn or whatever, plus he chumps or is flashback therapy fodder. None of which Sakura Tribe Elder can do, except chump plus ramp.
If Elder's 2 CMC allows it to come down a turn faster than Elves, then the two cards provide mana at the same rate, but Elder doesn't use up your T3 resources.
If the CMC doesn't effect the turn you cast it on, both cards cost you two mana.
As a result, the only real difference IMO is that you must sac Elder and you don't have to sac Elves. This makes Cabal therapy sad, but that's really a corner case - you had to draw a singleton/doubleton (as if you have GSZ and Cabal Therapy in the GY you fetch Explorer), and have an unused Therapy in the graveyard. On the other hand, Elder is noticeably better in a starting hand, giving us another card to use on T2. Obviously we would prefer to open with Explorer and Cabal, but if that's in our opener, it's likely neither Elder nor Elves will be a significant player. The times I find that Elder/Elves is something I want is in a slower opening hand, which usually doesn't have much to do on turn 2 besides a land drop as we cast our 1-drop on the first turn. In this situation, Elder gives us 4 mana on turn 3, while if we cast Elves turn 3 we have only 1 free mana to use. I don't really like either card though.
Went to a tournament at the LGS today. Won the tournament with remarkable ease. Four rounds of Swiss and then we had a Top 4 playoffs. I ran the list in the OP with the changes I mentioned previously.
Round 1: Maverick
I spilled soda on my notes for this game, but I won 2 and lost 1. The one loss was due mainly to my deck refusing to yield me a Scapeshift/Wish. Maverick simply doesn't have the clock to race us, and very little ways to interact with us besides Wasteland.
Score: 1-0, 2-1
Round 2: Mono Red Casual
Game 1: I win the roll and mull away Explorer+6 lands. I open Taiga Explorer and he plays a Mountain and a Dragonmaster Outcast. I play a Swamp, attack, and he obliges to block, so I take two Forests. I then drop a land, cast Wood Elves grabbing a Taiga and drop SDT. He plays Lightning Greaves and another Dragonmaster. I cast Huntmaster and he goes Mountain, Geosurge, Tatsuma, the Dragon's Fang, and yet another Outcast. I activate SDT and move GSZ to the top. On my turn, I cast GSZ for Explorer and swing in (20-16). He plays his fifth Mountain and a Crucible of Fire. I activate SDT, seeing a land, Bonfire, and Burning Wish, and decide to practice SDT manipulation. I move Bonfire to the top, followed by Wish and then the land. I activate the top again, hold priority, and draw in response. I miracle the Bonfire, intending to kill my explorer, but then realize that shuffles away my Wish. I catch myself and wipe his board, then move Wish to the top, followed by the land, and then SDT. I draw Burning Wish and swing, then on my next turn draw my seventh land and Wish for Scapeshift.
SB: None
Game 2 isn't worth typing. Just beat him up with a T3 Thragtusk.
Score: 2-0, 4-1
Round 3: ANT
I lose the roll and mull into Wood Elves, Cabal, Taiga, Swamp, Thrag, GSZ. He open Delta go, so I try Cabal blindly naming Pierce. He shows Lotus Petal, LED, DRitual, Flusterstorm, and lands. He plays an Island, cracks the Delta, drops the artifacts, casts DRit and then Ad Nausium, responding by using LED. He proceeds to flip FoW, Cruel Tutor, PiF, Flusterstorm, FoW.
He draws a land, a Petal, EtW, and four rituals, and I lose to 12 goblins. I note to myself that had I been on the play I had a shot at topdecking Bonfire on turn 3 before he can kill me, so I should never concede to EtW on the play.
Game 3: I draw a hand with 2 Cabal, 2 Explorer, Scapeshift, and 2 lands. Cabal holds him off and a T3 Scapeshift kills him.
Score: 3-0, 6-2
Round 4: Death and Taxes
He is the only other undefeated player, so we draw into the top 4.
Score: 3-0-1, 7-3-1
Semifinals: Junk with SFM, KotR, and Explorer
I don't fully remember what happened, but basically we both ramped hard and he had KotR x2, Batterskull, and Deathrite on the table by turn 7, when I cast Scapeshift for the win. I could have cast it on turn 5 but I used SDT to keep it out of my hand in hopes of not revealing the nature of my deck, as I had a few creatures of my own. When he is in a manifestly better position I Scapeshift for the win and he winces. I didn't sideboard. Game 2 was a gruel fest with plenty of discard and removal on both sides. I am forced to use my first Wish on Damnation since he has lethal on board and I am at 6 lands. Two turns later I draw another Wish and win.
Finals: UB Reanimator
Game 1: I lose the die roll and concede after a turn 1 Gristel
SB: -2 Deed, -1 Bonfire of the Damned, -3 SDT, +3 Thoughtseize, +3 REB
Game 2: I keep a hand with Thoughtseize, Burning Wish, Phyrexian Tower, and Explorer.
I open with Explorer, he plays a Sea and passes. I drop Tower, sac the Explorer and cast Thoughtseize which gets forced (20-19). He Entombs Gristel at EOT, and on his turn plays another Sea and then Exhumes him. On my turn, I sac Explorer again and cast Burning Wish. He responds by drawing and lets it resolve, frowning (20-12). I take and cast Innocent Blood. He draws again (20-5) and it resolves. I cast Huntmaster of the Fells (22-5) and SDT. He plays three Lotus Petals and casts Show and Tell putting Blazing Archon onto the field. I use SDT and see my top two cards are Bonfires. On my turn I cast the first for x=5 which gets hit by 1 Daze and two Spell Pierce. I end my turn, and he attacks with the Archon. My next turn, I again try Bonfire for x=5 and this time it resolves.
Afterwards he explained that on his first drawing he drew a Daze and no other counters, and on the second he drew two Pierces. Although he could cast them all, I had exactly 5 mana left after casting Innocent Blood.
Game 3: He mulls to 5 and I to 6. He opens with a Fetchland for a Sea and passes (20-19), and I play Taiga and Explorer. He plays a Sea and drops a Petal. I drop Badlands and cast Cabal Therapy naming Reanimate. He reveals Jin Gitaxias, Reanimate, and a land, so I swing with Explorer (20-18). He casts Show and Tell. I have REB in hand, but instead opt to let it resolve, as I also have a PT and can simply kill Jin with the REB. I fetch two Valakut and do so. On my turn, I flashback Cabal Therapy sacrificing Explorer naming nonsense, and grab Mountains #3 and 4. PT swings, dealing 6 by himself and 12 of Valakut triggers after grabing two Taigas for game.
Notes:
1) You want to cast Burning Wish for Scapeshift. It could be more effective to drop some of the wish targets for real sb cards. Innocent Blood, Scapeshift, Reanimate, Pulse, and Damnation were the only things I ever grabbed or thought about. Also, Ruin is probably not needed with Damnation on the board.
2) Decks like Maverick and regular Nic Fit are easy wins. They simply struggle to keep up with our clock. Nic Fit can be grueling if they have heavy discard, but all we need to do is topdeck Scapeshift/Wish to win.
3) This deck is very good.
4) Bonfire proved to be quite useful, as a sweeper, a way to kill Explorer, and as a finisher
5) Wood Elves vs Elder never made a difference.
6) Mulling aggressively works, and land-light hands are rarely a problem. In a couple of my matches I only hit two natural land drops.
7) Scapeshift is simply amazing.
I recently dropped 1 huntmaster, 1 wood elves for 2 Abrupt Decays and have liked it so far. Junk is making a comeback, and its a really tough matchup for this deck. Target discard, with knight (fetching waste) and lily (who they just +1 till they can 6 her) makes it almost impossible to with with scapeshift. And then they bring in Teeg game 2/3 if they dont maindeck it. Decay deals with lily and knight, breaks counterbalance, and is a useful card against 80% of the decks being played.
Volrath's Stronghold is awesome, especially with phyrexian tower, you can dodge terminus/StPS. There a lot of games where I only have like 3-4 mountains out and 6 lands total so primetime needs a few turns to gets the damage in. Fetch up the 2 towers, and you can just recur prime every turn even through removal, if if they have removal that turn, you can just play thragtusk every turn until you win.
Virtue's ruin is needed for mav/junk. Teeg is hard for us to deal with. Deed is our only out to him, and those decks sometimes bring in pithing needle or revoker.
The pulverize, is just cause theres always like 3-5 MUD players in this area.
2 Fetch lands, make top better and help you color fix in thei first few turns. 2 Is pretty much the most you can fit in though.
Yes, Bonfire is awesome.
-2 Thoughtseize for +2 Extirpates, I could go either way, but I like having some GY hate, and extirpate is great against Miracles or combo decks as well.
After playing Rector Nic fit with moat and baneslayers, and GB nic fit for a while (haven't played BUG fit). I have to say this is definitely the most competitive variant, and by far the LEAST durdley.
@Raggedjoe: Congrats on the success! Siding out tops, doesn't seem right. Why side them out in the combo matchups, over say huntmaster, or tribe elders?
The Combo decks I faced goldfish faster than we do, so I figured that we couldn't afford to be in a position where we need SDT. Looking back, you are probably right that I should have dropped Huntmaster instead.
What do you think of replacing one Huntmaster with a Broodmate Dragon or a Thrun?
I've actually not been too impressed with the tops and was thinking about cutting of of them for some disruption, maybe a Thoughtseize? What did you have in mind?
I would never cut top from this deck, it is essential and there just isnt any substitute. This deck would love more thoughtseizes and more abrupt decays in it, but there just isnt room.
The Combo decks I faced goldfish faster than we do, so I figured that we couldn't afford to be in a position where we need SDT. Looking back, you are probably right that I should have dropped Huntmaster instead.
What do you think of replacing one Huntmaster with a Broodmate Dragon or a Thrun?
Oh yes dedicated combo decks definitely goldfish faster than us. But against a combo deck, we arent RUG, we can't play a one drop and then tempo out the combo deck. And we cant try to out goldfish them. We need to stall them first, then lock them out of the win, then play a wincon ourselves. Top isnt useful till like turn 3+ when your looking into locking your oppenent out of the win, and then looking to win ourselves.
So we dont really need up to 3 huntmasters, when a GSZ will find one when we its time for us to win.
Basically, you want to therapy/thoughtseize or keep mana open for a REB for the first few turns. Next goal (where you need top) is to totally rip their hard apart with multiple therapys/seizes, or burning wish>slaughter games their combo pieces. And then you can GSZ for a threat, or hit 7 lands and win.
As far as Broodmate/thrun goes. Id say no, in the like "jund nic fit" decks they are good, but not needed with scapeshift. Im biased, personally I just hate thrun, he has never performed well for me in any nic fit variant. Primetitan wins the game much better than broodmate in this list. And if for some reason you cant valakut for the win, grabing phyrexian tower+volraths stronghold is really strong. GY hate AND wasteland is needed to stop you from just casting a ewit or thragtusk every turn.
I agree with that Sensei's stop SHOULD NOT be cut from this deck. So many times does it help smooth us out and make our plays much, much better.
I've played a few games with your list RaggedJoe and I gotta say that decks running x4 hymn are pretty hard to go up against. Junk is the only deck I've lost to with this deck and I think that they have access to x4 Hymn somewhere in the 75.
Also; How do you guys feel about keeping openers like this: Veteran Explorer, Sensei's top, Green Sun's, Badlands, Mountain, Volrath's stronghold, Thragtusk. I've tried them before and sometimes they work great and other times they fall short.
I actually have only used Reanimate vs Reanimator/S&T. With 11 effective discard effects post board, it's easy to get a Gristel to hit the bin. And Gristel is really good.
Bonfire is my favorite card in this deck. It kills dudes, hits 'walkers, finishes opponents, and kills Explorer. It basically does everything. Definitely play 3+Bonfire. I'm thinking of trying out the following list:
I doubt this is the reason buuut. When you're playing against another reanimator deck it's pretty good. It is probably there for more grindy games. I think that 3 wood elves and 4 explorer is fine with 4 green sun's. If it ever becomes a problem what would you add?
I doubt this is the reason buuut. When you're playing against another reanimator deck it's pretty good. It is probably there for more grindy games. I think that 3 wood elves and 4 explorer is fine with 4 green sun's. If it ever becomes a problem what would you add?
This is actually why I do it. Or S&T. Or DR-Dredge.
One of the nice things about ScapeWish us that you have more avenues of attack than Nic Fit. You can beat down with your creatures, but you can also cast Scapeshift for Valakut and Mountains for the win. Bonfire is a simply amazing top deck that smashes Affinity, Tribal, D&T, and RUG, yet with our ramp, hard casting it for 1 or 2 isn't out of the question.
Stomping Grounds might look wierd, but it's another Mountain card to be fetching of Scapeshift, so it's better to run than a fetch land.
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Pretty sure the latest versions are more tuned than Badd B's, though, and they do look less weak to Burn and UR Delver. (In The Source, Arianrhod seems to be one of the premier ScapeWish developers, and I don't think s/he's Badd B.)
Delver is slower than Burn, so it's easy. Plus Deed hits Delver pretty hard, as does Bonfire.
I like how you can slow-roll Valakut off of a PT, and am thinking of adding another over Wood Elves for that purpose. With 5 Mountains, PT fetches 2 Valakut and the pop just loses if he doesn't have an answer. You are effectively swinging for a trampling 18. I've beat StoneBlade decks like that. Many times. A second PT would let us grab it if the first hits a STP, and would deal 12 upon being cast. For that matter, an Explorer deals 12 when he dies too after PT lands. I find it somewhat hard to keep PT around to swing, but slowrolling after he hits a STP is quite solid.
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Hazezon Tamar EDH
For 36 damage, go for 2 Valakut and 6 Mountains.
To dodge an uncracked Wasteland, go for 1 Valakut and 7 Mountains (Valakut still counts Mountains even if it leaves the battlefield in response to its triggers, but it has to count Mountains in order to successfully trigger).
Yes, this means you need at least 7 lands to combo off.
Got only 5 or fewer Mountains in the deck? For 24 damage, go for 2 Valakut and 4 Mountains! (Warning: requires two unsacrificed Mountains and 8 lands on the battlefield.)
-1 Wood Elves, -1 Pernicious Deed
+1 Sakura-Tribe Elder, +1 Bonfire of the Damned
Wood Elves is good, but the Elder is often better. Bonfire has proven a better sweeper than Deed in many matchups. I'm really loving this deck, I tear most creature based decks to shreds quite easily. High Tide is probably the worst matchup, a decent clock+counterspells makes it hard to race. Affinity is also pretty bad unless I get a lucky Deed/Bonfire.
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That said the deck looks like a blast to play, I get to play Thragtusk in ALL THE FORMATS.
Anyways, the deck is a lot of fun, but still kind of unfinished. I think I can make it more resiliant than it currently is
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.......okay.
That aside, while the deck has a really strong finish, I can't shake the feeling it's a lot more durdley (have no idea how you spell that) then regular nic fit, the switch between the Scapeshift deck to the regular Nic Fit deck is awkward, and you seem to kind of go all in on a said plan, whether or not that is bad I'm not sure of.
Don't really know if the deck needs the 4 GSZ, you don't really run a creature tool box of any kind, and you already have top to smooth your draws, perhaps cut one for some more disruption?
Sure it doesn't kill Champion, but it does kill basically everything else for 1R
Not sure I'd want to cut GSZ, because we are more reliant on Explorer than regular Nic Fit is. Also, I frequently find myself searching for Primeval to break a stalled board. I'd love to make it less durdley, but I'm not sure how. The real issue is that the ScapeWish package simply takes up so much space, but there's no way around that I'm pretty sure.
I've actually not been too impressed with the tops and was thinking about cutting of of them for some disruption, maybe a Thoughtseize? What did you have in mind?
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If Elder's 2 CMC allows it to come down a turn faster than Elves, then the two cards provide mana at the same rate, but Elder doesn't use up your T3 resources.
If the CMC doesn't effect the turn you cast it on, both cards cost you two mana.
As a result, the only real difference IMO is that you must sac Elder and you don't have to sac Elves. This makes Cabal therapy sad, but that's really a corner case - you had to draw a singleton/doubleton (as if you have GSZ and Cabal Therapy in the GY you fetch Explorer), and have an unused Therapy in the graveyard. On the other hand, Elder is noticeably better in a starting hand, giving us another card to use on T2. Obviously we would prefer to open with Explorer and Cabal, but if that's in our opener, it's likely neither Elder nor Elves will be a significant player. The times I find that Elder/Elves is something I want is in a slower opening hand, which usually doesn't have much to do on turn 2 besides a land drop as we cast our 1-drop on the first turn. In this situation, Elder gives us 4 mana on turn 3, while if we cast Elves turn 3 we have only 1 free mana to use. I don't really like either card though.
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Round 1: Maverick
I spilled soda on my notes for this game, but I won 2 and lost 1. The one loss was due mainly to my deck refusing to yield me a Scapeshift/Wish. Maverick simply doesn't have the clock to race us, and very little ways to interact with us besides Wasteland.
Score: 1-0, 2-1
Round 2: Mono Red Casual
Game 1: I win the roll and mull away Explorer+6 lands. I open Taiga Explorer and he plays a Mountain and a Dragonmaster Outcast. I play a Swamp, attack, and he obliges to block, so I take two Forests. I then drop a land, cast Wood Elves grabbing a Taiga and drop SDT. He plays Lightning Greaves and another Dragonmaster. I cast Huntmaster and he goes Mountain, Geosurge, Tatsuma, the Dragon's Fang, and yet another Outcast. I activate SDT and move GSZ to the top. On my turn, I cast GSZ for Explorer and swing in (20-16). He plays his fifth Mountain and a Crucible of Fire. I activate SDT, seeing a land, Bonfire, and Burning Wish, and decide to practice SDT manipulation. I move Bonfire to the top, followed by Wish and then the land. I activate the top again, hold priority, and draw in response. I miracle the Bonfire, intending to kill my explorer, but then realize that shuffles away my Wish. I catch myself and wipe his board, then move Wish to the top, followed by the land, and then SDT. I draw Burning Wish and swing, then on my next turn draw my seventh land and Wish for Scapeshift.
SB: None
Game 2 isn't worth typing. Just beat him up with a T3 Thragtusk.
Score: 2-0, 4-1
Round 3: ANT
I lose the roll and mull into Wood Elves, Cabal, Taiga, Swamp, Thrag, GSZ. He open Delta go, so I try Cabal blindly naming Pierce. He shows Lotus Petal, LED, DRitual, Flusterstorm, and lands. He plays an Island, cracks the Delta, drops the artifacts, casts DRit and then Ad Nausium, responding by using LED. He proceeds to flip FoW, Cruel Tutor, PiF, Flusterstorm, FoW.
SB: -3 SDT, -1 Bonfire, -2 Deeds, +3 REB, +3 Thoughtseize
He draws a land, a Petal, EtW, and four rituals, and I lose to 12 goblins. I note to myself that had I been on the play I had a shot at topdecking Bonfire on turn 3 before he can kill me, so I should never concede to EtW on the play.
Game 3: I draw a hand with 2 Cabal, 2 Explorer, Scapeshift, and 2 lands. Cabal holds him off and a T3 Scapeshift kills him.
Score: 3-0, 6-2
Round 4: Death and Taxes
He is the only other undefeated player, so we draw into the top 4.
Score: 3-0-1, 7-3-1
Semifinals: Junk with SFM, KotR, and Explorer
I don't fully remember what happened, but basically we both ramped hard and he had KotR x2, Batterskull, and Deathrite on the table by turn 7, when I cast Scapeshift for the win. I could have cast it on turn 5 but I used SDT to keep it out of my hand in hopes of not revealing the nature of my deck, as I had a few creatures of my own. When he is in a manifestly better position I Scapeshift for the win and he winces. I didn't sideboard. Game 2 was a gruel fest with plenty of discard and removal on both sides. I am forced to use my first Wish on Damnation since he has lethal on board and I am at 6 lands. Two turns later I draw another Wish and win.
Finals: UB Reanimator
Game 1: I lose the die roll and concede after a turn 1 Gristel
SB: -2 Deed, -1 Bonfire of the Damned, -3 SDT, +3 Thoughtseize, +3 REB
Game 2: I keep a hand with Thoughtseize, Burning Wish, Phyrexian Tower, and Explorer.
I open with Explorer, he plays a Sea and passes. I drop Tower, sac the Explorer and cast Thoughtseize which gets forced (20-19). He Entombs Gristel at EOT, and on his turn plays another Sea and then Exhumes him. On my turn, I sac Explorer again and cast Burning Wish. He responds by drawing and lets it resolve, frowning (20-12). I take and cast Innocent Blood. He draws again (20-5) and it resolves. I cast Huntmaster of the Fells (22-5) and SDT. He plays three Lotus Petals and casts Show and Tell putting Blazing Archon onto the field. I use SDT and see my top two cards are Bonfires. On my turn I cast the first for x=5 which gets hit by 1 Daze and two Spell Pierce. I end my turn, and he attacks with the Archon. My next turn, I again try Bonfire for x=5 and this time it resolves.
Afterwards he explained that on his first drawing he drew a Daze and no other counters, and on the second he drew two Pierces. Although he could cast them all, I had exactly 5 mana left after casting Innocent Blood.
Game 3: He mulls to 5 and I to 6. He opens with a Fetchland for a Sea and passes (20-19), and I play Taiga and Explorer. He plays a Sea and drops a Petal. I drop Badlands and cast Cabal Therapy naming Reanimate. He reveals Jin Gitaxias, Reanimate, and a land, so I swing with Explorer (20-18). He casts Show and Tell. I have REB in hand, but instead opt to let it resolve, as I also have a PT and can simply kill Jin with the REB. I fetch two Valakut and do so. On my turn, I flashback Cabal Therapy sacrificing Explorer naming nonsense, and grab Mountains #3 and 4. PT swings, dealing 6 by himself and 12 of Valakut triggers after grabing two Taigas for game.
Notes:
1) You want to cast Burning Wish for Scapeshift. It could be more effective to drop some of the wish targets for real sb cards. Innocent Blood, Scapeshift, Reanimate, Pulse, and Damnation were the only things I ever grabbed or thought about. Also, Ruin is probably not needed with Damnation on the board.
2) Decks like Maverick and regular Nic Fit are easy wins. They simply struggle to keep up with our clock. Nic Fit can be grueling if they have heavy discard, but all we need to do is topdeck Scapeshift/Wish to win.
3) This deck is very good.
4) Bonfire proved to be quite useful, as a sweeper, a way to kill Explorer, and as a finisher
5) Wood Elves vs Elder never made a difference.
6) Mulling aggressively works, and land-light hands are rarely a problem. In a couple of my matches I only hit two natural land drops.
7) Scapeshift is simply amazing.
Changes to the list: None.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
2x Eternal Witness
2x Huntmaster of the Fells
2x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan
Instants:
2x Abrupt Decay
Sorceries:
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Burning Wish
2x Bonfire of the Damned
2x Scapeshift
3x Sensei's Divining Top
Enchantments:
3x Pernicious Deed
Lands:
4x Taiga
2x Verdent Catacombs
3x Badlands
2x Bayou
3x Forest
4x Mountain
2x Swamp
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Volrath's Stronghold
4x Red Elemental Blast
2x Extirpate
1x Thoughtseize
1x Virtue's Ruin
1x Pulverize
1x Slaughter Games
1x Damnation
1x Innocent Blood
1x Reanimate
1x Scapeshift
1x Maelstorm Pulse
I recently dropped 1 huntmaster, 1 wood elves for 2 Abrupt Decays and have liked it so far. Junk is making a comeback, and its a really tough matchup for this deck. Target discard, with knight (fetching waste) and lily (who they just +1 till they can 6 her) makes it almost impossible to with with scapeshift. And then they bring in Teeg game 2/3 if they dont maindeck it. Decay deals with lily and knight, breaks counterbalance, and is a useful card against 80% of the decks being played.
Volrath's Stronghold is awesome, especially with phyrexian tower, you can dodge terminus/StPS. There a lot of games where I only have like 3-4 mountains out and 6 lands total so primetime needs a few turns to gets the damage in. Fetch up the 2 towers, and you can just recur prime every turn even through removal, if if they have removal that turn, you can just play thragtusk every turn until you win.
Virtue's ruin is needed for mav/junk. Teeg is hard for us to deal with. Deed is our only out to him, and those decks sometimes bring in pithing needle or revoker.
The pulverize, is just cause theres always like 3-5 MUD players in this area.
2 Fetch lands, make top better and help you color fix in thei first few turns. 2 Is pretty much the most you can fit in though.
Yes, Bonfire is awesome.
-2 Thoughtseize for +2 Extirpates, I could go either way, but I like having some GY hate, and extirpate is great against Miracles or combo decks as well.
After playing Rector Nic fit with moat and baneslayers, and GB nic fit for a while (haven't played BUG fit). I have to say this is definitely the most competitive variant, and by far the LEAST durdley.
@Raggedjoe: Congrats on the success! Siding out tops, doesn't seem right. Why side them out in the combo matchups, over say huntmaster, or tribe elders?
What do you think of replacing one Huntmaster with a Broodmate Dragon or a Thrun?
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Thoughtseize sounds legit, Abrupt Decay mayhap?
I would never cut top from this deck, it is essential and there just isnt any substitute. This deck would love more thoughtseizes and more abrupt decays in it, but there just isnt room.
Oh yes dedicated combo decks definitely goldfish faster than us. But against a combo deck, we arent RUG, we can't play a one drop and then tempo out the combo deck. And we cant try to out goldfish them. We need to stall them first, then lock them out of the win, then play a wincon ourselves. Top isnt useful till like turn 3+ when your looking into locking your oppenent out of the win, and then looking to win ourselves.
So we dont really need up to 3 huntmasters, when a GSZ will find one when we its time for us to win.
Basically, you want to therapy/thoughtseize or keep mana open for a REB for the first few turns. Next goal (where you need top) is to totally rip their hard apart with multiple therapys/seizes, or burning wish>slaughter games their combo pieces. And then you can GSZ for a threat, or hit 7 lands and win.
As far as Broodmate/thrun goes. Id say no, in the like "jund nic fit" decks they are good, but not needed with scapeshift. Im biased, personally I just hate thrun, he has never performed well for me in any nic fit variant. Primetitan wins the game much better than broodmate in this list. And if for some reason you cant valakut for the win, grabing phyrexian tower+volraths stronghold is really strong. GY hate AND wasteland is needed to stop you from just casting a ewit or thragtusk every turn.
Sealed:
M13 Pre-Release: 4-0-1
RTR Pre- Release: 5-1
Standard:
Bant Control: 25-4-6
I've played a few games with your list RaggedJoe and I gotta say that decks running x4 hymn are pretty hard to go up against. Junk is the only deck I've lost to with this deck and I think that they have access to x4 Hymn somewhere in the 75.
Also; How do you guys feel about keeping openers like this: Veteran Explorer, Sensei's top, Green Sun's, Badlands, Mountain, Volrath's stronghold, Thragtusk. I've tried them before and sometimes they work great and other times they fall short.
Sealed:
M13 Pre-Release: 4-0-1
RTR Pre- Release: 5-1
Standard:
Bant Control: 25-4-6
Bonfire is my favorite card in this deck. It kills dudes, hits 'walkers, finishes opponents, and kills Explorer. It basically does everything. Definitely play 3+Bonfire. I'm thinking of trying out the following list:
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wood Elves
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
2 Scapeshift
I've been not too thrilled by Huntmaster. He just doesn't do much because he never transforms.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Sealed:
M13 Pre-Release: 4-0-1
RTR Pre- Release: 5-1
Standard:
Bant Control: 25-4-6
This is actually why I do it. Or S&T. Or DR-Dredge.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Sealed:
M13 Pre-Release: 4-0-1
RTR Pre- Release: 5-1
Standard:
Bant Control: 25-4-6