LoA won't be unbanned. Don't forget wizards is trying to (yeah, trying) keep cards with a huge $-value out of legacy. (see Mana Drain, for example. That card woudn't break the format, I think.)
Well they must not be doing their job as Grim Tutor is worth over $100 and is legal in legacy. Really though I don't think the perceived value of any card should affect it's legality in any format.
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Of all the cards listed there are two I would like to see reinstated.
With the speed of decks in the format, I wold like to see the return of Black Vise. Decks these days either empty their hand quickly or play enough counter-magic to stop the artifact. I understand that for a single mana you get a damage machine, but it seems unlikely to be as degenerate as in times past.
The other card I would love to see reinstated is Balance. Balance is fast enough that it can offer an answer to any archetype, yet provide enough parity to make it... well... balanced, in such a fast and furious format.
Note on Grim Tutor: I could easily see this card being in XE. I see XE being as close to A/B/UL as a core set ever has. With many cards being color-fixed, I see this as a return to the way core sets were before they were diluted. I'm pretty confident that the Ravnica shock-lands will be replacing the pain lands, if for any reason so as to generalize the card names (no more Yavimaya or LLanowar mentioned in a core set). Fork becomes Twin Cast, Mana Flare becomes Heartbeat of Spring, Titania Song = March of the Machines, Deflection = Shunt. Psionic Blast = Char, Demonic Tutor = Grim Tutor. Look at the power level of some of the cards we know are in XE - Incinerate, Troll Ascetic even Time Stop and Platinum Angel , which may end up as trade fodder, but the complexity and power of those card actually cause me to look forward to XE. Diabolic Tutor may remain the mainstay, but I could see Grim Tutor replacing it.
Balance and Vise are both too distorting and powerful. Vise kill every kind of control deck, while balance is just stupid.
yup balance and black vise = too powerful.
here let me demo how it would run.
1st turn = swamp + dark ritual + 3 black vise. on your upkeep take 9.
hehe.
or how about this beauty.
1st turn = chrome mox + mox diamond + 2 lotus petals + balance ... go...
oh i got rid of all your lands, creatures, and hand turn 1... :-p...
or how about this beauty.
1st turn = chrome mox + mox diamond + 2 lotus petals + balance ... go...
oh i got rid of all your lands, creatures, and hand turn 1... :-p...
...Getting rid of someone's land and creatures on turn one isn't EXACTLY what I would call impressive, and getting rid of someone's hand at the same time as your own and having no way to capitalize is similarly impressive.
My one and only wish, is for Dream Halls. I love the card and I want to do wicked wicked things for free.
This is the one card I'd beg for. I use it in a U/G Emperor deck with Eurekas, Show and Tell, and draw sevens. Totally sick, worth building around, and not unstoppable, why ban it?
So, Black Vise is much too powerful (not that I disagree), but allowing 4x Strip Mine is acceptable? Yikes.
Mind Over Matter is garbage. The only deck it could conceivably fit into is Solidarity, but Solidarity is all about instants, and a 6cc enchantment is pretty awful in a deck like that. So, yes, it should be unbanned.
Land Tax is not that great unless you build the deck around it. Any deck built around it is glacial, although there are many cards that have good interactions with it (Scroll Rack, I'm looking at you). It could definitely be unbanned.
Gush is questionable. It would make 'Tog a force, very possibly, but 'Tog would still have to not lose before it could Gush into lethal. If there were a normal blue control deck, I could see Gush played there, but aside from that...I just don't see many decks playing it. It could probably be unbanned.
Replenish would be ok to bring back, as there is a LOT of graveyard hate out there, it is a 4cc sorcery, and there are many ways to work around combo in general.
There are other cards that *could* be considered, but overall, those are the only ones I would be comfortable with.
I think Gush should stay banned, that card can do a lot of nutty things. It'd probably find it's home in threshold, 'tog or some random blue control deck. Library should definitely stay banned, 4 libraries in a deck isn't even funny.
The only card that I could see being unbanned would be Mind Over Matter.
Even the simple Land Tax can be abused with Shadow creatures. I've seen some pretty mean Turn 3-4 turn kills with Empyrial Armor that just gets ridiculous with Land Tax. Discard probably won't hurt this deck either.
Other cards like Earthcraft, Dream Halls, Balance, Black Vise, or Yawgmoth's Will, there's just no way that the unbanning of these cards is fair unless they unban almost everything, allowing many new broken decks to fight it out against each other. I personally would be very happy to play the old Academy deck if Tolarian Academy and Time Spiral were unbanned.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
The problem with cards like Balance isn't that they aren't fair and balanced in most decks, it's that decks that have developed throughout the history of magic break them in half through synergies not necessarily obvious when the problem cards were printed. Balance is completely and totally unfair when played by Ancient Tomb decks (amongst a couple others I'd imagine).
As far as Lands:
- They can already skimp on mana since theirs is better than yours.
- They have fewer lands on the table at any one time since their sac theirs to play threats.
- They can afford to lose their own due to crucible and moxen.
For creatures:
- What creatures? They don't need creatures. They win through manlands and artifacts. 1W = wrath of god with the kill effect being a sacrifice.
For cards in hand:
- Again, what cards in hand? These decks can abuse Uba Mask, Bottled Cloister, and the fact that they generally don't have a hand past turn 4 to negate any sort of card advantage that you can produce.
I don't know if dream halls would be more degenerate then solidarity, but it would do something that no one likes to see. Enable a massive, nearly neverending turn that isn't quite "infinite". To play a dream halls combo means that you have to manually do all of the crap involved in it, because it can't truly go "infinite", so you can't arbitrarily choose a random large number, and this leads to mind numbing 30 minute long turns. This is can sometimes be as damage to the game as a powerful combo.
I don't know if dream halls would be more degenerate then solidarity, but it would do something that no one likes to see. Enable a massive, nearly neverending turn that isn't quite "infinite". To play a dream halls combo means that you have to manually do all of the crap involved in it, because it can't truly go "infinite", so you can't arbitrarily choose a random large number, and this leads to mind numbing 30 minute long turns. This is can sometimes be as damage to the game as a powerful combo.
That being said, I still miss playing the card.
speaking about massive never ending games, i think they should BAN Shaharazad. it is a fun card i admit; however, it can make the game drag on forever.:rolleyes:
I think they should unban Replenish. There's no reason to keep it banned. It's slower than goblins or solidarity, it's not broken whatsoever.
Other card I like is Vampiric Tutor. Many people see it too dangerous, but i think it's ok.
Card disadvantage and life loss balance it. But maybe imperial seal instead v tutor because is strictly worse.
I think they should unban Replenish. There's no reason to keep it banned. It's slower than goblins or solidarity, it's not broken whatsoever.
....
Other cards i see no reason to be banned are Mind Over Matter, Skullclamp and Land Tax.
The only card i think should be banned is Protean Hulk.
i do believe replenish should be unbanned, and you might as well take off mind over matter and land tax. skull clamp i do think should stay banned, but it majorly delays the game.
Problem with Skullclamp and Gush is that they would make Gobbo and Threshold even more dominant than they are now. I don't think that would be any good for the format.
Gobs I could see running skullclamp but it would dilute the goblin concentration of the deck, so that's still debatable. As for threshold, I really don't see them running it considering the low number of creature that would it could target.
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The reasons:
There are better combos, like high tide, lackey/vial and flash/hulk.
It's a bit slow. It costs 4 mana and it needs a lot of enchantments in your graveyard. It's easily disruptable (Fow, Duress, Counterspell, Daze) and easily hatable (Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt).
It was banned because it broke standard and extended, but we can't use other formats as reference.
Legacy decks can deal easily against Replenish. More easily than you can deal against vial, solidarity and flash/hulk.
You can make a Loam/Replenish deck, but it's still a fair deck.
I don't see any reason why replenish is banned now.
banning hulk is not the solution against the new flash/hulk deck.
This combo is just the fastest combo with flash. I'm sure there are more combo's with it. So after banning hulk, you need to ban another creature, and again, and again, untill it's ballanced.
Just ban flash, if the deck is really that crazy like people say.
I don't agree. I think the problems would be solved if hulk is banned.
I think the format needs the unbanning of Replenish and Mind Over Matter. Come on, they aren't broken. Compare them to flash, lackey, vial, reset, etc and you'll see these cards aren't broken, and if a card isn't broken, it shouldn't stay banned.
There weren't any changes in the last year. It's the time to unban something.
Gobs I could see running skullclamp but it would dilute the goblin concentration of the deck, so that's still debatable. As for threshold, I really don't see them running it considering the low number of creature that would it could target.
Did you happen to play in 1.5 whenever it was legal in goblins? It was a freaking house.
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I am curious to what you guys think would happen if they banned Tendrils of Agony, and to a lesser extent brainfreeze. While I do not think the card is busted nor am I advocating its banning but, I know I am sick of seeing all the storm based combos, and I think it would be an interesting change for the format.
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Calvin and Hobbes Cube Tutor
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Well they must not be doing their job as Grim Tutor is worth over $100 and is legal in legacy. Really though I don't think the perceived value of any card should affect it's legality in any format.
With the speed of decks in the format, I wold like to see the return of Black Vise. Decks these days either empty their hand quickly or play enough counter-magic to stop the artifact. I understand that for a single mana you get a damage machine, but it seems unlikely to be as degenerate as in times past.
The other card I would love to see reinstated is Balance. Balance is fast enough that it can offer an answer to any archetype, yet provide enough parity to make it... well... balanced, in such a fast and furious format.
Note on Grim Tutor: I could easily see this card being in XE. I see XE being as close to A/B/UL as a core set ever has. With many cards being color-fixed, I see this as a return to the way core sets were before they were diluted. I'm pretty confident that the Ravnica shock-lands will be replacing the pain lands, if for any reason so as to generalize the card names (no more Yavimaya or LLanowar mentioned in a core set). Fork becomes Twin Cast, Mana Flare becomes Heartbeat of Spring, Titania Song = March of the Machines, Deflection = Shunt. Psionic Blast = Char, Demonic Tutor = Grim Tutor. Look at the power level of some of the cards we know are in XE - Incinerate, Troll Ascetic even Time Stop and Platinum Angel , which may end up as trade fodder, but the complexity and power of those card actually cause me to look forward to XE. Diabolic Tutor may remain the mainstay, but I could see Grim Tutor replacing it.
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yup balance and black vise = too powerful.
here let me demo how it would run.
1st turn = swamp + dark ritual + 3 black vise. on your upkeep take 9.
hehe.
or how about this beauty.
1st turn = chrome mox + mox diamond + 2 lotus petals + balance ... go...
oh i got rid of all your lands, creatures, and hand turn 1... :-p...
...Getting rid of someone's land and creatures on turn one isn't EXACTLY what I would call impressive, and getting rid of someone's hand at the same time as your own and having no way to capitalize is similarly impressive.
This is the one card I'd beg for. I use it in a U/G Emperor deck with Eurekas, Show and Tell, and draw sevens. Totally sick, worth building around, and not unstoppable, why ban it?
RON PAUL
R[ƎVO˩]UTION
The Philosophy of Liberty
Mind Over Matter is garbage. The only deck it could conceivably fit into is Solidarity, but Solidarity is all about instants, and a 6cc enchantment is pretty awful in a deck like that. So, yes, it should be unbanned.
Land Tax is not that great unless you build the deck around it. Any deck built around it is glacial, although there are many cards that have good interactions with it (Scroll Rack, I'm looking at you). It could definitely be unbanned.
Gush is questionable. It would make 'Tog a force, very possibly, but 'Tog would still have to not lose before it could Gush into lethal. If there were a normal blue control deck, I could see Gush played there, but aside from that...I just don't see many decks playing it. It could probably be unbanned.
Replenish would be ok to bring back, as there is a LOT of graveyard hate out there, it is a 4cc sorcery, and there are many ways to work around combo in general.
There are other cards that *could* be considered, but overall, those are the only ones I would be comfortable with.
Even the simple Land Tax can be abused with Shadow creatures. I've seen some pretty mean Turn 3-4 turn kills with Empyrial Armor that just gets ridiculous with Land Tax. Discard probably won't hurt this deck either.
Other cards like Earthcraft, Dream Halls, Balance, Black Vise, or Yawgmoth's Will, there's just no way that the unbanning of these cards is fair unless they unban almost everything, allowing many new broken decks to fight it out against each other. I personally would be very happy to play the old Academy deck if Tolarian Academy and Time Spiral were unbanned.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)As far as Lands:
- They can already skimp on mana since theirs is better than yours.
- They have fewer lands on the table at any one time since their sac theirs to play threats.
- They can afford to lose their own due to crucible and moxen.
For creatures:
- What creatures? They don't need creatures. They win through manlands and artifacts. 1W = wrath of god with the kill effect being a sacrifice.
For cards in hand:
- Again, what cards in hand? These decks can abuse Uba Mask, Bottled Cloister, and the fact that they generally don't have a hand past turn 4 to negate any sort of card advantage that you can produce.
That being said, I still miss playing the card.
speaking about massive never ending games, i think they should BAN
Shaharazad. it is a fun card i admit; however, it can make the game drag on forever.:rolleyes:
Other card I like is Vampiric Tutor. Many people see it too dangerous, but i think it's ok.
Card disadvantage and life loss balance it. But maybe imperial seal instead v tutor because is strictly worse.
Other cards i see no reason to be banned are Mind Over Matter, Skullclamp and Land Tax.
The only card i think should be banned is Protean Hulk.
i do believe replenish should be unbanned, and you might as well take off mind over matter and land tax. skull clamp i do think should stay banned, but it majorly delays the game.
protean hulk shouldnt be banned.
The reasons:
There are better combos, like high tide, lackey/vial and flash/hulk.
It's a bit slow. It costs 4 mana and it needs a lot of enchantments in your graveyard. It's easily disruptable (Fow, Duress, Counterspell, Daze) and easily hatable (Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt).
It was banned because it broke standard and extended, but we can't use other formats as reference.
Legacy decks can deal easily against Replenish. More easily than you can deal against vial, solidarity and flash/hulk.
You can make a Loam/Replenish deck, but it's still a fair deck.
I don't see any reason why replenish is banned now.
Bazaar was unbanned before in legacy not sure on why it is now banned.
also what is the deal with stuff being banned because of a cost issue? a lot of great cards and decks in legacy are very inexpensive.
More playable, but also broken.
DCI should unban:
Replenish
Mind Over Matter
Land Tax
Maybe Vampiric Tutor or Imperial Seal
I don't agree. I think the problems would be solved if hulk is banned.
I think the format needs the unbanning of Replenish and Mind Over Matter. Come on, they aren't broken. Compare them to flash, lackey, vial, reset, etc and you'll see these cards aren't broken, and if a card isn't broken, it shouldn't stay banned.
There weren't any changes in the last year. It's the time to unban something.
Did you happen to play in 1.5 whenever it was legal in goblins? It was a freaking house.
Sadly no, but I guess it's nice to hear about it from first hand experience :p.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor