I started making this cube over the summer, and it was originally based off of Evan Erwin's cube. When I started knowing enough about this to know that his cube is garbage, I decided to pull bits and pieces from everywhere and ultimately made it my own, as opposed to a direct copy of garbage.
Anyway, it is currently 570 cards but is constantly changing because we typically do at least one cube draft a week and learn quickly what sucks and what's broken (i.e. my red was godawful, needed to replace some cards, etc.)
Currently there are 72 cards of each color, 60 lands, 50 artifacts, and 100 multi-color cards.
Disenchant: I kicked these narrow cards out of the cube some time ago. I wnat my cube cards to be maindeckable, so i have neither Disenchants nor colorhosers. Perhaps replace with a CIP creature that destroys artifacts/enchantments?
Why? You don't play with sideboards? This card can see more play than others from the side.
Platinum Angel: Not reliable neough for it's mana cost. With the powerlevel of removal we have in cube, he doesn't live long enough to protect you.
How much is not enough? Usually after one-two attacks the game is over, and not much can kill an artifact with four toughness. Must-kill cards are always good when you can have them out (easy in this case).
My own quick criticism:
White:
Orim's Chant seems unplayable by almost all situations. No, it's not a time walk.
Pulse of the Fields - You can say it's recoverable and efficient, but I still won't ever play a pure lifegain spell.
Blue:
Arcane Denial - card disadvantage isn't what players usually want from their counters.
Dominate - Doesn't it cost a bit too much to still be relevant when you can cast it?
Black -
Exhume - Even if I play reanimator, I think it's too risky late-game.
Seize the Soul - seems expensive and too limited.
Grim Harvest - was too slow for our cube
Sudden Spoiling - don't you prefer another black removal instead?
Green -
Scryb Ranger seems narrow.
Saproling Burst - it didn't work well for me, mainly because in this price green can make a fattie instead of token shenanigans
Lands -
Urza's Factory seems too slow, even for control decks. You miss many better lands anyway.
Multicolored -
I think it's too large to be balanceworthy. In numbers that big, the power level differences are so huge i'd just play the stronger cards. It won't affect affect the drafts too much if you have 6 U/R cards instead of 9.
Normally i'd rather comment on singlecard discussion, but since you asked for it, i looked over your cardlist and picked out some cards that caught my eye:
thanks a ton!
Disenchant: I kicked these narrow cards out of the cube some time ago. I wnat my cube cards to be maindeckable, so i have neither Disenchants nor colorhosers. Perhaps replace with a CIP creature that destroys artifacts/enchantments?
To me, disenchant is always so easily maindeckable, as is any artifact/enchantment hate. There are so many bomb artifacts and enchantments that it's hard not to pass up.
Arcanis: He proved to be too expensive for our tastes. Excellent creature for reanimation though. But if you want a big creature for blue, try looking somewhere else. From the cards you don't have, i like Isleback Spawn A LOT.
This makes a lot of sense.
Chronozoa: I've never seen it's ability to duplicate trigger. It's not much more than a blue Hill Giant aka unplayable imo.
I have seen the ability trigger, but I suppose you are correct, even though it triggered twice, that wasn't the reason the person playing it won.
Shapesharer: He needs too much mana to do his thing. There are much bette roptions for Clone creatures available, including Clone himself who should be better than Shapesharer.
Makes sense, again.
Take Possession: Way too expensive considering that any disenchant effect can and will destroy it.
hmmm, although it has won many games, sometimes a simple Control Magic works just as well.
Throat Slitter: Okiba Gang Shinobi is rarely coming through (in fact, i'll cut him from my cube soon) and i think that the Slitter is worse than the Shinobi. Black has lots of ways to kill creatures, this one is subpar.
There was a nut black/blue deck with bitterblossom and both these cards that just owned pretty hard. I would probably take these cards out if I found some better replacements, however.
Grim Harvest: Didn't work for us. Phyrexian Reclamation does the same job, only better. Seeing that you have Reclamation i'd say cut the Harvest and see if you have anything else to add.
What would be a good replacement for GH because I already have PR?
Hammer of Bogardan: Has anyone ever bought this back from the graveyard? Even if anyone did, 8 mana for 3 damage is pretty poor.
Zo-Zu: Was meh for us but i can see him having potential. Debatable.
Fissure: While being flexible, it proved to be just a bit too expensive for us.
HoB - no one has ever played it yet because we've never seen it in draft.
Zo-Zu + Sulfuric Vortex =
Fissure - again, we have yet to see this card in action because it is a recent addition
I like your green cards, everything decent or better. I am not a fan of Vigor as he's unsplashable and his ability not nearly as relevant as one would think
.
What would you swap?
Wow, you play a lot of multicolors. Before looking at them, i am already interested in your 9 UR and UG cards
Yep, that could use some work.
...cut 2 to 3 in each color or just cut anything you think of as weak bringing your multicolor section down to ~60 to ~70 cards. I'd start by cutting anything that says "Avatar" on it's typeline then by cutting the Legendary triplecolored dragons.
Everyone seems to like the dragons; Rith and Teneb have single-handedly won so many games.
Platinum Angel: Not reliable neough for it's mana cost. With the powerlevel of removal we have in cube, he doesn't live long enough to protect you.
Certainly a valid point.
Looks good. Some lands i wouldn't want to miss and highly recommend: Academy ruins, Volrath's Stronghold, Maze of Ith.
Definitely going to swap the Urza's Factory for Maze of Ith.
Disclaimer:
Keep in mind that while posts like this one always sound very negative that me critizising ~10 to ~20 cards out of 550 cards means that i think that ~530 cardchoices are well done.
It doesn't sound negative at all to me, I've spent all the time posting this here because I'd like some help, and the least everyone could do is be truthful.
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Dominate - Doesn't it cost a bit too much to still be relevant when you can cast it?
I agree, probably should replace that.
Seize the Soul - seems expensive and too limited.
Is it, though? Kill 2 creatures and get 2 1/1s?
Scryb Ranger seems narrow.
Saproling Burst - it didn't work well for me, mainly because in this price green can make a fattie instead of token shenanigans
It didn't seem to really do what one would expect it to do.
Multicolored -
I think it's too large to be balanceworthy. In numbers that big, the power level differences are so huge i'd just play the stronger cards. It won't affect affect the drafts too much if you have 6 U/R cards instead of 9.
Yeah, definitely will be cutting a bunch of cards out of the multicolor.
Can you give me more details about your cube?
1. What strategies do you want to have in your cube? Some cubed discourage combo or even aggro as strategies. In your cube it seems you encourage multicolor.
2. What themes you want to enforce in your cube? Many cubes play subthemes such as reanimator, land destruction, counterburn, etc.
3. What do you usually play/want to play with it? Playing booster draft, sealed, solomon draft or two-headed giant variant of them can affect card choices.
I really I wish every cube owner had said these details before asking for opinions.
Edit- Forgot to response about the cards Seize the Soul - Well, you need two targetable nonblack, nonwhite creatures with another creature dying for that to happen. It doesn't seem likely to happen. Black has many better, cheaper removal IMO.
Multicolor - I can see why you may want a big multicolor section, I'm just saying you should add more G/W cards instead of some of your U/G and U/R (okay, all of the blue multicolored sections) if it's stronger, and not to bound yourself to create equal and weaker sections.
I started making this cube over the summer, and it was originally based off of Evan Erwin's cube. When I started knowing enough about this to know that his cube is garbage, I decided to pull bits and pieces from everywhere and ultimately made it my own, as opposed to a direct copy of garbage.
Garbage? It aint that bad. Like u said, it is a good place to start from and as you figure out what you want in and "out" of your cube, you make adjustments.
Kinda unfair just out and out call his cube garbage without identify reasons why you think so? Not balanced? Bad card selction? Dislike the two different multicolor sections?
I built mine similarly, first taking evan's, then getting ideas from Pringlesman's cube and using ideas from folks on this forum (there are lot of good ideas on this forum, it's solid)
Kinda unfair just out and out call his cube garbage without identify reasons why you think so? Not balanced? Bad card selction? Dislike the two different multicolor sections?
I copied his cube card for card as a starting point and no one ever played red. EVER!My cube was effectively 4 colors because his red was just so bad.
Can you give me more details about your cube?
1. What strategies do you want to have in your cube? Some cubed discourage combo or even aggro as strategies. In your cube it seems you encourage multicolor.
I do like multicolor, and I and my friends also like rewarding people who manage to get both pieces of a combo such as Scepter/Chant or Entomb/Exhume. Mostly, I want the possibilities to be endless, and sometimes people managed to even build mono color decks.
2. What themes you want to enforce in your cube? Many cubes play subthemes such as reanimator, land destruction, counterburn, etc.
Definitely reanimator and counterburn, and not land destruction. Some examples of popular decks are: G/W glare/aggro, U/B control, R/B aggro, and control decks such as U/W typically splash green for bombs like SSS and Hierarch.
3. What do you usually play/want to play with it? Playing booster draft, sealed, solomon draft or two-headed giant variant of them can affect card choices.
It's always a draft, and if we only get 4 people, then we will do a 2HG. Most of the time, it's just a typical draft.
EDIT:
Forgot to response about the cards Seize the Soul - Well, you need two targetable nonblack, nonwhite creatures with another creature dying for that to happen. It doesn't seem likely to happen. Black has many better, cheaper removal IMO.
Yeah, true...
Multicolor - I can see why you may want a big multicolor section, I'm just saying you should add more G/W cards instead of some of your U/G and U/R (okay, all of the blue multicolored sections) if it's stronger, and not to bound yourself to create equal and weaker sections.
But is it alright for balance to have more cards of one section and less of another?
After cubing with 6 people the other night, I updated the cube more than ever. It is now unpowered, something that we really liked because it's always more fun when games don't end on turn 3ish. Furthermore, if anyone has any recommendations as far as further inclusions/exclusions, that would be greatly appreciated!
Anything I took out of the cube has been crossed out and anything added was primarily from conflux
I like the cube man. Other than the Rhox Charger and the Fire at Will (which should be a Duergar Hedge-Mage IMO) the cube looks pretty solid. The only thing that I think is really missing is Mana Vault? Where is it?
Other than those few things (and the missing Power 9), the cube looks good. Looks like it'd be fun to draft.
I like the cube man. Other than the Rhox Charger and the Fire at Will (which should be a Duergar Hedge-Mage IMO) the cube looks pretty solid. The only thing that I think is really missing is Mana Vault? Where is it?
You do have a point about the Rhox Charger. I just cube drafted, had it in my deck, and it really was not as good as the other 4 drops I had - phantom centaur and ravenous baloth. For the mana vault I used to have it in, but then took it out, but could put it back in to see if it works better this time around.
Other than those few things (and the missing Power 9), the cube looks good. Looks like it'd be fun to draft.
The power 9 were originally in, however, it made many games just not even fun and people would easily get pissed off and lose interest. Thus, one of my friends suggested to take them out and pursue the more skill intensive route for longer, better, and funner games. Furthermore, it helps make cards such as Mindtwist and Tinker less broken, and thus, more fun.
I have also got Rhox Charger, but he hasn't showed up yet. He is pretty much inferior to the other green 4-drops around, but he may yet prove his worth! I like the spashability.
And yes, Duergar Hedge-Mage is insane. He can be a massive swing if both his abilities are online when you play him and he works with bounce and blink.
Arcane Denial is really good. Its drawback is significant, but the fact that it hard-counters a spell for 1U makes it good. It's the most splashable hard counter in the cube.
The Sapling looks good, but the fact that it's only a 2/5 for 5 isn't an issue?
Cliffrunner Behemoth is phenomenal if you can hit even one of its conditions, good shout.
5/3 lifelink or haste for 4 mana just seems awesome, especially considering green paired with red or white seems to be more common than green paried with blue or black.
Just looking through your cube, it seems awesome. Has Sapling of Colfenor been OK? I love that card but it looks risky in cube.
Not only is he next to impossible to get rid of, but his ability is nuts if you are in a position where he can get through. He may not be the best card, but typically people have enjoyed playing with him.
Also, Arcane Denial looks bad, what about Dream Fracture to replace it? I haven't played with either card, mind you.
My inclination is to lean on Arcane Denial as being better because it's the 2 cost vs. the 3 cost, as well as the splashability and playability of it.
My inclination is to lean on Arcane Denial as being better because it's the 2 cost vs. the 3 cost, as well as the splashability and playability of it.
Some one in cube group has suggested running denial. It does give your opponent card advantage but it has been suggested that straight hard counters make games less fun, which is no good. I haven't decided one way or the other on it, but if I do it will probably replace Counterspell (straight hard counter). Its clearly inferior but as evin erwin said, if no one wants to play your cube you just have a pile of good cards not doing anything.
Some one in cube group has suggested running denial. It does give your opponent card advantage but it has been suggested that straight hard counters make games less fun, which is no good. I haven't decided one way or the other on it, but if I do it will probably replace Counterspell (straight hard counter). Its clearly inferior but as evin erwin said, if no one wants to play your cube you just have a pile of good cards not doing anything.
Evan didn't mean take out Counterspell when he said this. If your playgroup thinks that Counterspell is too good and that it needs to be replaced with sub par cards, that's a shame. I play the Arcane Denial because it's good on its own, nobody should pull Counterspell for this card.
A Cube with no hard counters severely underpowers Blue, IMO. Even on a fun level, it adds extra tension and makes it exciting to try and squeeze a good creature through control's net. Cool stuff like Vexing Shusher or even Insist can be included to compensate.
I will track down a copy of Arcane Denial and add it, I like this as a splashable hard counter.
Evan didn't mean take out Counterspell when he said this. If your playgroup thinks that Counterspell is too good and that it needs to be replaced with sub par cards, that's a shame. I play the Arcane Denial because it's good on its own, nobody should pull Counterspell for this card.
Actually Evin would have meant counterspell in his example. If a group of players stop playing a particular cube because of a specific card. Then you are better off not having that card rather than having a stack of awesomes card no one wants to play with.
Statements like
nobody should pull Counterspell for this card.
are incorrect, there are reasons one might do so. All cubes are different. All playgroups are different. Many reasons may exist something should be done in your cube that doesn't apply to other cubes and vise versa.
However statements like
If your playgroup thinks that Counterspell is too good and that it needs to be replaced with sub par cards, that's a shame.
Are true. That would be a shame, I personally don't want to cut such a iconic card.
A Cube with no hard counters severely underpowers Blue
I never said anything about no hard counters. For that matter it would be the exact same number of hard counters. I would also be surprised if anyone's blue section could feel underpowered by losing their 1 copy of counterspell while keeping their mana drain, fow, forbid, ect.
If counterspell was cut for arcane it would because counterspell has the least amount of functionality out of all the other counterspells that are currently in our cube. The counter spell count wouldn't change it would just be -1 completely vanilla hard counter +1 not so great, splashable hard counter. The thought process this would hope to achieve with the people playing the cube is, "I don't like having my stuff countered but hey, I just got card advantages out of it so I won't ***** about it."
Look, if your playgroup stops playing with your cube because of Counterspell, don't play with that group anymore. Playing the cube without hard counters isn't playing cube.
Evan said that if an entire group of players thinks a card is degenerative and completely un-fun then it could be cut to satisfy the group because a cube that nobody plays isn't any fun. That doesn't mean you should cut every card that people don't like because they complain about their spells being countered.
Yes every cube is different but that doesn't mean that cutting Counterspell for Arcane Denial is good for the cube. Looking at this cube in particular... I don't think that cutting Counterspell is a good idea.
Personally, I don't think that taking cards out because they're too good is a good idea at all. I like the idea of adding cards like Blurred Mongoose and Vexing Shusher and Banefire instead of cutting cards like Counterspell.
The way that you worded your initial post about this made it seem like your group wanted you to replace Counterspell with Arcane Denial because the Denial was worse and they didn't like the hard counters because they were too good. Sorry, but I think this is ridiculous, weather it's true or not.
It's basically the reason I cut the power from my cube. Obviously magic is just more fun when it doesn't go "Land, Lotus, Solifuge" or something of that nature.
It's basically the reason I cut the power from my cube. Obviously magic is just more fun when it doesn't go "Land, Lotus, Solifuge" or something of that nature.
I completely disagree. This is when Magic is the Most fun! You just play a first strike creature and smile (hell, it can be any creature, really). There are so many responses to anything that a player can do in the cube that it's never degenerative. If it's so un-fun because the power cards are dominating then the cube itself has some balancing issues. There should always be an answer.
Look, if your playgroup stops playing with your cube because of Counterspell, don't play with that group anymore.
I think its cool some cube builders have the option of dropping a playgroup of 7 people because they disagree with those people then move on to a new 7 people with no problems. I however am not one of those people. I have been friends with my playgroup for years, and simply not playing with them and finding 7 people that agree with me about counterspells is not very likely going to happen, which is actually the entire point of the Evan Erwin comment. If finding a new group every time you disagreed with them was an option, taking that route seems a little more ridiculous than just nurfing one card.
Playing the cube without hard counters isn't playing cube.
If there were a standard of cards that go into "cube", every list would be the same. However it is important to point out I have yet to suggest playing with out hard counter or even decreasing my hard counter amount. You are just stating a point (hard counter must be in a playable cube), to try and win an argument that I am not making, for that matter I enjoy counters in a cube.
Evan said that if an entire group of players thinks a card is degenerative and completely un-fun then it could be cut to satisfy the group because a cube that nobody plays isn't any fun.
Even if this were his exact wording, the same logic could be applied to card effects not just the printed names on the cards. So let me take your wording, "if an entire group of players thinks -counterspell- is degenerative and completely un-fun then it could be cut to satisfy the group because a cube that nobody plays isn't any fun". Yeah, still works there, by your own interpretation of Evan's comment. However the extreme of "it could be cut to satisfy the group", does not need to be taken because in this instance we have the option of putting another cube worthy card that serves the same purpose at the same casting cost in its place. The same cannot be said in Evan's example of "winter orb", but his logic holds true and can be applied both ways.
That doesn't mean you should cut every card that people don't like because they complain about their spells being countered.
I wouldn't cut every card people didn’t like because there spells were countered, I might cut back on the cards that are doing the countering, although I never even suggested doing that. It was suggested to keep the number of counters the exact same, then slightly nurf one of them.
We have applied Evan’s logic in your words to this situation and it made sense. Now lets see when we take your logic in your words and apply it to Evan's situation. "That doesn't mean you should cut every card that people don't like because they complain about their -lands not untapping-". Once again true you wouldn't cut every card in a cube people didn't like, but you would still cut winter orb, if it promoted unfun games to the majority of your group. The difference that I think is confusing you is that Evan didn't have a wide range of 'all lands are tapped' that was bothering his group it was just one card. Had it been a large number of cards of 'all lands stay tapped' he might try to start tweaking the amount or quality of them to try and find a balance every one was happy with. Nurfing a single card but replacing it with a cube worthy card in its essence is the same logic just applied to different solutions for different problems. Evan actually illustrated this point when he mentioned the validity of replacing power (Acestral Recal -> Ancestral Visions, ect.)
Yes every cube is different but that doesn't mean that cutting Counterspell for Arcane Denial is good for the cube. Looking at this cube in particular... I don't think that cutting Counterspell is a good idea.
My point was more specifically my playgroup and not the cards themselves.
The way that you worded your initial post about this made it seem like your group wanted you to replace Counterspell with Arcane Denial because the Denial was worse and they didn't like the hard counters because they were too good. Sorry, but I think this is ridiculous, whether it's true or not.
Thinking something is ridiculous is valid. I never disagreed with that. I disagree on intentionally keeping a cube built in a way that deters the people who play it from wanting to play it. Which is at the heart of Evan’s winter orb comment.
...and because it seems to be skimmed over, read my original comment. I said "Some one in cube group has suggested". This wasn't an idea I had to keep counters out of everyones cubes. I also never said I was doing it. It was a statement made letting other cubers know the state of my playgroups mentality. I do not have a bias towards counter, this not me trying to keep counters out. My bias is directed to keep the players that cube, happy cubing, which I believe to be the point.
Cutting Counterspell is a bad idea. That's it. That's the whole point.
I don't ditch my friends and play with other people because they don't like cards in the cube. I educate them on the reasons why it's a good thing to have the cards in there that they don't like, and they understand. Once they understand the reasons why having certain cards in the cube is important, they want to play the cube still, and its win win.
There isn't a standard cube list of cards that you must include, but cutting countermagic from blue would be a bad decision. Just like removing all the artifact/enchantment and creature removal cards from the cube would be a bad idea. The player that draws a creature and a Worship wins! Everybody have fun!
I refuse to believe that every player in your playgroup thinks that Counterspell is a degenerative card that's sooooo good it needs to be cut or I'll quit cubing with you. In fact, this shouldn't be anybody's opinion, and if it is, you should change their outlook so they can see why having hard counters is important.
I don't use Evan's logic on everything. In my opinion, cutting Winter Orb is asinine because it's important for Aggro to have this option available. I don't cut cards because their "too good". My point is that even if I did, there is no way that myself or any of the good Magic players that I cube with would believe that Counterspell is one of these cards.
Okay, "someone in the group suggested" it. I still think it's a bad idea.
Happy cubing is good cubing, and removing good cards for worse ones isn't good cubing, IMO.
I see what your saying here. Pleasing the playgroup is the bottom line, and I agree with you. I'm saying that if the entire playgroup thinks that hard-counters are degenerative and need to be removed, you need to educate the group as to why this is a bad idea for the balance of the cube. Then everybody will be happy, and everyone will continue to cube.
Anyway, it is currently 570 cards but is constantly changing because we typically do at least one cube draft a week and learn quickly what sucks and what's broken (i.e. my red was godawful, needed to replace some cards, etc.)
Currently there are 72 cards of each color, 60 lands, 50 artifacts, and 100 multi-color cards.
The complete cube, unpowered as of 8/29:
10 Signets
10 Duals
10 Shocks
10 Bounce
5 Vivids
5 Fetches
Alright, I'll start doing that with red and then go back and fix up the other 3.
Why? You don't play with sideboards? This card can see more play than others from the side.
How much is not enough? Usually after one-two attacks the game is over, and not much can kill an artifact with four toughness. Must-kill cards are always good when you can have them out (easy in this case).
My own quick criticism:
White:
Orim's Chant seems unplayable by almost all situations. No, it's not a time walk.
Pulse of the Fields - You can say it's recoverable and efficient, but I still won't ever play a pure lifegain spell.
Blue:
Arcane Denial - card disadvantage isn't what players usually want from their counters.
Dominate - Doesn't it cost a bit too much to still be relevant when you can cast it?
Black -
Exhume - Even if I play reanimator, I think it's too risky late-game.
Seize the Soul - seems expensive and too limited.
Grim Harvest - was too slow for our cube
Sudden Spoiling - don't you prefer another black removal instead?
Green -
Scryb Ranger seems narrow.
Saproling Burst - it didn't work well for me, mainly because in this price green can make a fattie instead of token shenanigans
Artifacts-
No Mana Vault?
Lands -
Urza's Factory seems too slow, even for control decks. You miss many better lands anyway.
Multicolored -
I think it's too large to be balanceworthy. In numbers that big, the power level differences are so huge i'd just play the stronger cards. It won't affect affect the drafts too much if you have 6 U/R cards instead of 9.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
thanks a ton!
To me, disenchant is always so easily maindeckable, as is any artifact/enchantment hate. There are so many bomb artifacts and enchantments that it's hard not to pass up.
This makes a lot of sense.
I have seen the ability trigger, but I suppose you are correct, even though it triggered twice, that wasn't the reason the person playing it won.
Makes sense, again.
hmmm, although it has won many games, sometimes a simple Control Magic works just as well.
There was a nut black/blue deck with bitterblossom and both these cards that just owned pretty hard. I would probably take these cards out if I found some better replacements, however.
What would be a good replacement for GH because I already have PR?
HoB - no one has ever played it yet because we've never seen it in draft.
Zo-Zu + Sulfuric Vortex =
Fissure - again, we have yet to see this card in action because it is a recent addition
.
What would you swap?
Yep, that could use some work.
Everyone seems to like the dragons; Rith and Teneb have single-handedly won so many games.
Certainly a valid point.
Definitely going to swap the Urza's Factory for Maze of Ith.
It doesn't sound negative at all to me, I've spent all the time posting this here because I'd like some help, and the least everyone could do is be truthful.
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I agree, probably should replace that.
Is it, though? Kill 2 creatures and get 2 1/1s?
What do you think I should replace with?
It didn't seem to really do what one would expect it to do.
Yeah, definitely will be cutting a bunch of cards out of the multicolor.
1. What strategies do you want to have in your cube? Some cubed discourage combo or even aggro as strategies. In your cube it seems you encourage multicolor.
2. What themes you want to enforce in your cube? Many cubes play subthemes such as reanimator, land destruction, counterburn, etc.
3. What do you usually play/want to play with it? Playing booster draft, sealed, solomon draft or two-headed giant variant of them can affect card choices.
I really I wish every cube owner had said these details before asking for opinions.
Edit- Forgot to response about the cards
Seize the Soul - Well, you need two targetable nonblack, nonwhite creatures with another creature dying for that to happen. It doesn't seem likely to happen. Black has many better, cheaper removal IMO.
Multicolor - I can see why you may want a big multicolor section, I'm just saying you should add more G/W cards instead of some of your U/G and U/R (okay, all of the blue multicolored sections) if it's stronger, and not to bound yourself to create equal and weaker sections.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Garbage? It aint that bad. Like u said, it is a good place to start from and as you figure out what you want in and "out" of your cube, you make adjustments.
Kinda unfair just out and out call his cube garbage without identify reasons why you think so? Not balanced? Bad card selction? Dislike the two different multicolor sections?
I built mine similarly, first taking evan's, then getting ideas from Pringlesman's cube and using ideas from folks on this forum (there are lot of good ideas on this forum, it's solid)
GL on your cube.
AznO
Opm's Cube on MTGS
Wife's Etsy Store (Hair Accessories for Girls)
I copied his cube card for card as a starting point and no one ever played red. EVER! My cube was effectively 4 colors because his red was just so bad.
I do like multicolor, and I and my friends also like rewarding people who manage to get both pieces of a combo such as Scepter/Chant or Entomb/Exhume. Mostly, I want the possibilities to be endless, and sometimes people managed to even build mono color decks.
Definitely reanimator and counterburn, and not land destruction. Some examples of popular decks are: G/W glare/aggro, U/B control, R/B aggro, and control decks such as U/W typically splash green for bombs like SSS and Hierarch.
It's always a draft, and if we only get 4 people, then we will do a 2HG. Most of the time, it's just a typical draft.
EDIT:
Yeah, true...
But is it alright for balance to have more cards of one section and less of another?
Anything I took out of the cube has been crossed out and anything added was primarily from conflux
Other than those few things (and the missing Power 9), the cube looks good. Looks like it'd be fun to draft.
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You do have a point about the Rhox Charger. I just cube drafted, had it in my deck, and it really was not as good as the other 4 drops I had - phantom centaur and ravenous baloth. For the mana vault I used to have it in, but then took it out, but could put it back in to see if it works better this time around.
The power 9 were originally in, however, it made many games just not even fun and people would easily get pissed off and lose interest. Thus, one of my friends suggested to take them out and pursue the more skill intensive route for longer, better, and funner games. Furthermore, it helps make cards such as Mindtwist and Tinker less broken, and thus, more fun.
Have you even tried the Duergar Hedge-Mage yet? It's really good.
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And yes, Duergar Hedge-Mage is insane. He can be a massive swing if both his abilities are online when you play him and he works with bounce and blink.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I just updated the cube adding him, the vivids, mana vault, nicol bolas, and Cliffrunner Behemoth (and taking out the Charger).
Just looking through your cube, it seems awesome. Has Sapling of Colfenor been OK? I love that card but it looks risky in cube.
Also, Arcane Denial looks bad, what about Dream Fracture to replace it? I haven't played with either card, mind you.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
The Sapling looks good, but the fact that it's only a 2/5 for 5 isn't an issue?
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5/3 lifelink or haste for 4 mana just seems awesome, especially considering green paired with red or white seems to be more common than green paried with blue or black.
Not only is he next to impossible to get rid of, but his ability is nuts if you are in a position where he can get through. He may not be the best card, but typically people have enjoyed playing with him.
My inclination is to lean on Arcane Denial as being better because it's the 2 cost vs. the 3 cost, as well as the splashability and playability of it.
Some one in cube group has suggested running denial. It does give your opponent card advantage but it has been suggested that straight hard counters make games less fun, which is no good. I haven't decided one way or the other on it, but if I do it will probably replace Counterspell (straight hard counter). Its clearly inferior but as evin erwin said, if no one wants to play your cube you just have a pile of good cards not doing anything.
Evan didn't mean take out Counterspell when he said this. If your playgroup thinks that Counterspell is too good and that it needs to be replaced with sub par cards, that's a shame. I play the Arcane Denial because it's good on its own, nobody should pull Counterspell for this card.
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I will track down a copy of Arcane Denial and add it, I like this as a splashable hard counter.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Actually Evin would have meant counterspell in his example. If a group of players stop playing a particular cube because of a specific card. Then you are better off not having that card rather than having a stack of awesomes card no one wants to play with.
Statements like
are incorrect, there are reasons one might do so. All cubes are different. All playgroups are different. Many reasons may exist something should be done in your cube that doesn't apply to other cubes and vise versa.
However statements like
Are true. That would be a shame, I personally don't want to cut such a iconic card.
I never said anything about no hard counters. For that matter it would be the exact same number of hard counters. I would also be surprised if anyone's blue section could feel underpowered by losing their 1 copy of counterspell while keeping their mana drain, fow, forbid, ect.
If counterspell was cut for arcane it would because counterspell has the least amount of functionality out of all the other counterspells that are currently in our cube. The counter spell count wouldn't change it would just be -1 completely vanilla hard counter +1 not so great, splashable hard counter. The thought process this would hope to achieve with the people playing the cube is, "I don't like having my stuff countered but hey, I just got card advantages out of it so I won't ***** about it."
Evan said that if an entire group of players thinks a card is degenerative and completely un-fun then it could be cut to satisfy the group because a cube that nobody plays isn't any fun. That doesn't mean you should cut every card that people don't like because they complain about their spells being countered.
Yes every cube is different but that doesn't mean that cutting Counterspell for Arcane Denial is good for the cube. Looking at this cube in particular... I don't think that cutting Counterspell is a good idea.
Personally, I don't think that taking cards out because they're too good is a good idea at all. I like the idea of adding cards like Blurred Mongoose and Vexing Shusher and Banefire instead of cutting cards like Counterspell.
The way that you worded your initial post about this made it seem like your group wanted you to replace Counterspell with Arcane Denial because the Denial was worse and they didn't like the hard counters because they were too good. Sorry, but I think this is ridiculous, weather it's true or not.
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I completely disagree. This is when Magic is the Most fun! You just play a first strike creature and smile (hell, it can be any creature, really). There are so many responses to anything that a player can do in the cube that it's never degenerative. If it's so un-fun because the power cards are dominating then the cube itself has some balancing issues. There should always be an answer.
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We have applied Evan’s logic in your words to this situation and it made sense. Now lets see when we take your logic in your words and apply it to Evan's situation. "That doesn't mean you should cut every card that people don't like because they complain about their -lands not untapping-". Once again true you wouldn't cut every card in a cube people didn't like, but you would still cut winter orb, if it promoted unfun games to the majority of your group. The difference that I think is confusing you is that Evan didn't have a wide range of 'all lands are tapped' that was bothering his group it was just one card. Had it been a large number of cards of 'all lands stay tapped' he might try to start tweaking the amount or quality of them to try and find a balance every one was happy with. Nurfing a single card but replacing it with a cube worthy card in its essence is the same logic just applied to different solutions for different problems. Evan actually illustrated this point when he mentioned the validity of replacing power (Acestral Recal -> Ancestral Visions, ect.) My point was more specifically my playgroup and not the cards themselves. This should be taken up with those not running power. Thinking something is ridiculous is valid. I never disagreed with that. I disagree on intentionally keeping a cube built in a way that deters the people who play it from wanting to play it. Which is at the heart of Evan’s winter orb comment.
...and because it seems to be skimmed over, read my original comment. I said "Some one in cube group has suggested". This wasn't an idea I had to keep counters out of everyones cubes. I also never said I was doing it. It was a statement made letting other cubers know the state of my playgroups mentality. I do not have a bias towards counter, this not me trying to keep counters out. My bias is directed to keep the players that cube, happy cubing, which I believe to be the point.
You seem to be missing my point though.
Cutting Counterspell is a bad idea. That's it. That's the whole point.
I don't ditch my friends and play with other people because they don't like cards in the cube. I educate them on the reasons why it's a good thing to have the cards in there that they don't like, and they understand. Once they understand the reasons why having certain cards in the cube is important, they want to play the cube still, and its win win.
There isn't a standard cube list of cards that you must include, but cutting countermagic from blue would be a bad decision. Just like removing all the artifact/enchantment and creature removal cards from the cube would be a bad idea. The player that draws a creature and a Worship wins! Everybody have fun!
I refuse to believe that every player in your playgroup thinks that Counterspell is a degenerative card that's sooooo good it needs to be cut or I'll quit cubing with you. In fact, this shouldn't be anybody's opinion, and if it is, you should change their outlook so they can see why having hard counters is important.
I don't use Evan's logic on everything. In my opinion, cutting Winter Orb is asinine because it's important for Aggro to have this option available. I don't cut cards because their "too good". My point is that even if I did, there is no way that myself or any of the good Magic players that I cube with would believe that Counterspell is one of these cards.
Okay, "someone in the group suggested" it. I still think it's a bad idea.
Happy cubing is good cubing, and removing good cards for worse ones isn't good cubing, IMO.
I see what your saying here. Pleasing the playgroup is the bottom line, and I agree with you. I'm saying that if the entire playgroup thinks that hard-counters are degenerative and need to be removed, you need to educate the group as to why this is a bad idea for the balance of the cube. Then everybody will be happy, and everyone will continue to cube.
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