Creatures + Orb or Geddon is probably game a lot of times.
The Mayor continually spits out dudes without any mana necessary. Ive seen it win a lot of games. Its almost impossible to flip back under those conditions.
The classic draw-go White-blue control with a lot of counters , Wraths and only two or three finishers has not proven to be reliable here. Adding Planeswalkers or making it more midrangy helps but that is not a classic control deck as I loved it back in the day. Maybe I am too strict in what I call control or draw-go?
Just wanted to chime in support for Mayor, he is one of the better 2 drops in green for us.
I don't know why he's worked out so well for us but I'd probably only take Goyf, Fauna Shaman or Wild Mongrel over it.
Love the Mayor, that guy is insane and I can't think of many early game situations where he isn't the #1 kill on sight target.
When we were playing, my opponent would just continue to play spells and ignore him, laughing at my terrible 1/1 2-drop. Seriously, that card was damn-awful.
When we were playing, my opponent would just continue to play spells and ignore him, laughing at my terrible 1/1 2-drop. Seriously, that card was damn-awful.
You have to decide when is the right time to flip him, that's true, but once you do he is automatically incredible and so it normally seems right to remove him before he gets rolling.
You mean, skip your own turn to flip him? That's even a worse idea, IMO. I'm going to pay 2 mana for a 1/1, and then skip my turn to flip him so my opponent can kill it? That card was just awful in our group. Awful. Far and away the worst of all the wolves that we tested, including the Shepherd.
Wtwlf, I think that you are being unnecessarily dismissive. Casting instants on the opponents turn is not an incredibly onerous hurdle to leap in order to flip.
I don't play the mayor in my cube, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that when you want to flip the mayor, you arrange a sequence where forego casting things on your turn so that it flips and you are casting instants on their turn.
Green isn't really stacked with a ton of instants, but it is stacked with a bunch of bomb 3CC sorcery speed cards that I'd like to play. It's certainly possible to play instants, activation/equip costs/etc to have you not "skip a turn" to flip your Mayor, but those plays won't always be available/ideal. When they're not, you're forced to miss important plays in the curve to transform him, or settle for your 2 mana 1/1 ...neither option is very appealing.
Green isn't really stacked with a ton of instants, but it is stacked with a bunch of bomb 3CC sorcery speed cards that I'd like to play. It's certainly possible to play instants, activation/equip costs/etc to have you not "skip a turn" to flip your Mayor, but those plays won't always be available/ideal. When they're not, you're forced to miss important plays in the curve to transform him, or settle for your 2 mana 1/1 ...neither option is very appealing.
While it's true that Mayor is pretty weak against aggro decks (assuming that pumping humans isn't helpful), it's kind of like Grand Abolisher against control. It forces the control deck to play spells on it's own turn (or use a removal spell), which is inconvenient to say the least. I very commonly draft grixis in my cube, and while it's usually not an issue to just kill the guy with some random burn spell, there have been plenty of cases where I'm forced to tap out each main phase (thus blanking counter spells) to prevent him from flipping.
In addition, the card has some nice synergy with Winter Orb, Armageddon, and the like.
3rd? I hope your joking? I wouldn't put it in my top 10 Green 2 drops.
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The anthem Effect is cute but rarely relevant, I really don't see it flipping that often and even when it does, it has to live through that turn before it makes a wolf. No offense, but the card is weak on all fronts.
I'm just curious as to how many cube drafts you two have played with it? It seems that most people who have played it like it quite a bit. I've only read a single report from someone who tested him and didn't like him:
Ya I did. Along with the intimidate 3/3 and the Mayor. There were 6 werewolves in that test deck that I played against 3 other archetypes in the cube (like cube precons for testing, :p).
This testing seems a bit weird: a deck with 6 werewolves versus 3 cube precons is a strange way to test new cards.... On the other hand, it seems his playgroup has a different style than most.
Failing to curve out is pretty uncommon around here, for one reason or another. We run a really high concentration of low CC spells; even our control decks will only have 4-5 cards >3 CC.
So if you have any reports on situations/matchups/decks that he didn't perform well in, it would be interesting to hear them.
@rantipole: perhaps Mayor --> Albino Troll would be a good test swap? The troll has a similar "risk/reward" dilemma.
How is testing against cube decks from each theater a strange way to playtest cards? It's a pretty good way to playtest cards, actually. Usman does something similar and has great testing results with spoiled/new cards.
And I'm not the only one who has playtested the card and cut it. Happy Gilmore and Rant have also had bad experiences with it, and Blimpy played it and cut it at 360. Not exactly "3rd best green 2-drop" endorsements from them either.
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On the other hand, it seems his playgroup has a different style than most.
Actually, I think that the majority of my cube results and opinions on cards fall pretty well in line with the majority of other cube managers/groups and their collective experiences. There are always going to be points of difference between one group and another, but in general my results are pretty darn consistent with this community.
He is insane because if he flips he is far more powerful than any other green 2 drop and I'm willing to put up with a few awkward draws for that. It's not the end of the world if he doesn't flip on the next turn, it does suck though, but he can flip later. I really like the Grand Abolisher comparison, it really changes the way opponents play. And if he eats a removal spell I consider it a success. Decks do not curve out consistently enough in my playgroup to keep the Mayor down.
Plus he'll never leave my cube as he's insane in my favorite archetype U/G tempo, so take all my comments with a grain of slat.
He is insane because if he flips he is far more powerful than any other green 2 drop and I'm willing to put up with a few awkward draws for that.
If he flips he is more powerful than any green cube creature thats the distinction I was to draw
And honestly, if you play him with a bunch of guys out already what is the big deal about swinging and passing on the following turn -- remember that you're essentially casting Call of the Herd anyway.
If he flips he is more powerful than any green cube creature thats the distinction I was to draw
And honestly, if you play him with a bunch of guys out already what is the big deal about swinging and passing on the following turn -- remember that you're essentially casting Call of the Herd anyway.
Casting Call of the Herd? I guess you mean if he survives and your opponent doesn't play two spells?
remember that you're essentially casting Call of the Herd anyway.
No, not at all. I'm guaranteed two 3/3s with Call, and it spends no time as a 1/1 for two mana that requires my opponent to fail to play spells or me to stop curving out to do anything of value. And if my opponent Lightning Bolts one of my Elephant tokens, I lose half the value from a single card, not a full card and a turn. The Mayor is terrible compared to Call.
No, not at all. I'm guaranteed two 3/3s with Call, and it spends no time as a 1/1 for two mana that requires my opponent to fail to play spells or me to stop curving out to do anything of value. And if my opponent Lightning Bolts one of my Elephant tokens, I lose half the value from a single card, not a full card and a turn. The Mayor is terrible compared to Call.
The two aren't even in the same ballpark as far as I'm concerned. I would much rather spend my mana early and play in a way that takes advantage of Mayor rather than spend 3 and 4 mana for a vanilla 3/3. Call "Pick 15" of the Herd was awful when the relative power level of creatures was low, and especially worse by today's standards. Mayor doesn't work 100% of the time, but based on our experience and apparently many others in this thread as well, he is well deserving of a slot. You seem to have negative experiences with DFCs that you don't have control over flipping, so perhaps they just aren't right for your list.
The two aren't even in the same ballpark as far as I'm concerned. I would much rather spend my mana early and play in a way that takes advantage of Mayor rather than spend 3 and 4 mana for a vanilla 3/3. Call "Pick 15" of the Herd was awful when the relative power level of creatures was low, and especially worse by today's standards. Mayor doesn't work 100% of the time, but based on our experience and apparently many others in this thread as well, he is well deserving of a slot. You seem to have negative experiences with DFCs that you don't have control over flipping, so perhaps they just aren't right for your list.
I love Call of the Herd in my 800 card list. I wouldn't touch the Mayor with a stick... Maybe it's my playgroup as well, but I'm with wtwlf here...
Call "Pick 15" of the Herd was awful when the relative power level of creatures was low
Kind of a tangent, but Call was completely absurd when it was first printed. Did you ever play 4ED-Odyssey extended? Every deck splashed green for it. It was pretty damn silly.
I would much rather spend my mana early and play in a way that takes advantage of Mayor rather than spend 3 and 4 mana for a vanilla 3/3. Call "Pick 15" of the Herd was awful when the relative power level of creatures was low, and especially worse by today's standards. Mayor doesn't work 100% of the time, but based on our experience and apparently many others in this thread as well, he is well deserving of a slot.
Call of the Herd is a fantastic source of threats and card advantage for green that's both on curve and splashable. I play it in my powered 360 list, and so do a lot of other cube managers on this site. I'm sorry it didn't work for your group, but the card is consistent and powerful and belongs in all cubes of all sizes, IMO.
You seem to have negative experiences with DFCs that you don't have control over flipping, so perhaps they just aren't right for your list.
I know they're not right for my list. They're not right for a lot of people's lists. I want to know what the cards going into my final 40 are going to do. I don't want to play with randomly awesome or god-awful cards, that depend on my opponent playing a bad deck or getting unlucky, OR require me to stop curving out and cross my fingers that it doesn't die or flip back.
And I'm not the only one that's had poor experiences with the Wolves in the cube.
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Creatures + Orb or Geddon is probably game a lot of times.
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The Mayor continually spits out dudes without any mana necessary. Ive seen it win a lot of games. Its almost impossible to flip back under those conditions.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Since everyone has control of their own cube lists I think draw-go is here to stay.
Control decks win regularly in my cube. I won our last 6-man draft over here with superfriends control.
It really helps to have red or black removal available to relieve some of the burden on blue counterspells.
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I don't know why he's worked out so well for us but I'd probably only take Goyf, Fauna Shaman or Wild Mongrel over it.
When we were playing, my opponent would just continue to play spells and ignore him, laughing at my terrible 1/1 2-drop. Seriously, that card was damn-awful.
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You have to decide when is the right time to flip him, that's true, but once you do he is automatically incredible and so it normally seems right to remove him before he gets rolling.
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I don't play the mayor in my cube, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that when you want to flip the mayor, you arrange a sequence where forego casting things on your turn so that it flips and you are casting instants on their turn.
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While it's true that Mayor is pretty weak against aggro decks (assuming that pumping humans isn't helpful), it's kind of like Grand Abolisher against control. It forces the control deck to play spells on it's own turn (or use a removal spell), which is inconvenient to say the least. I very commonly draft grixis in my cube, and while it's usually not an issue to just kill the guy with some random burn spell, there have been plenty of cases where I'm forced to tap out each main phase (thus blanking counter spells) to prevent him from flipping.
In addition, the card has some nice synergy with Winter Orb, Armageddon, and the like.
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I'm just curious as to how many cube drafts you two have played with it? It seems that most people who have played it like it quite a bit. I've only read a single report from someone who tested him and didn't like him:
This testing seems a bit weird: a deck with 6 werewolves versus 3 cube precons is a strange way to test new cards.... On the other hand, it seems his playgroup has a different style than most.
So if you have any reports on situations/matchups/decks that he didn't perform well in, it would be interesting to hear them.
@rantipole: perhaps Mayor --> Albino Troll would be a good test swap? The troll has a similar "risk/reward" dilemma.
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And I'm not the only one who has playtested the card and cut it. Happy Gilmore and Rant have also had bad experiences with it, and Blimpy played it and cut it at 360. Not exactly "3rd best green 2-drop" endorsements from them either.
Actually, I think that the majority of my cube results and opinions on cards fall pretty well in line with the majority of other cube managers/groups and their collective experiences. There are always going to be points of difference between one group and another, but in general my results are pretty darn consistent with this community.
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Plus he'll never leave my cube as he's insane in my favorite archetype U/G tempo, so take all my comments with a grain of slat.
If he flips he is more powerful than any green cube creature thats the distinction I was to draw
And honestly, if you play him with a bunch of guys out already what is the big deal about swinging and passing on the following turn -- remember that you're essentially casting Call of the Herd anyway.
Casting Call of the Herd? I guess you mean if he survives and your opponent doesn't play two spells?
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No, not at all. I'm guaranteed two 3/3s with Call, and it spends no time as a 1/1 for two mana that requires my opponent to fail to play spells or me to stop curving out to do anything of value. And if my opponent Lightning Bolts one of my Elephant tokens, I lose half the value from a single card, not a full card and a turn. The Mayor is terrible compared to Call.
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I love Call of the Herd in my 800 card list. I wouldn't touch the Mayor with a stick... Maybe it's my playgroup as well, but I'm with wtwlf here...
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Kind of a tangent, but Call was completely absurd when it was first printed. Did you ever play 4ED-Odyssey extended? Every deck splashed green for it. It was pretty damn silly.
For the record, I have both cards in my 540.
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Well this I certainly agree with.
Call of the Herd is a fantastic source of threats and card advantage for green that's both on curve and splashable. I play it in my powered 360 list, and so do a lot of other cube managers on this site. I'm sorry it didn't work for your group, but the card is consistent and powerful and belongs in all cubes of all sizes, IMO.
I know they're not right for my list. They're not right for a lot of people's lists. I want to know what the cards going into my final 40 are going to do. I don't want to play with randomly awesome or god-awful cards, that depend on my opponent playing a bad deck or getting unlucky, OR require me to stop curving out and cross my fingers that it doesn't die or flip back.
And I'm not the only one that's had poor experiences with the Wolves in the cube.
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!