We've had some success with R/G aggro decks, and W/G aggro decks, but never with G/R or G/W. Green is always a support color, which means the GG aggro dudes never see play.
Regardless, this is pointless. There was an entire thread about why I have had trouble with green aggro, and while many people liked it a lot, I wasn't the only person who didn't find it getting drafted much. I didn't bring this up in hopes that you could all talk me back into green aggro. Explaining to my group that they should draft Jungle Lion when it hasn't been good ever when they've drafted it won't result in them drafting it. I had hoped that someone else might actually find this idea kind of cool, but instead almost all of the comments have received have been about how green aggro is actually good, and how Upheaval belongs in all cubes, and and how all the cards I was talking about were already in everybody's cubes.
Since nobody seems to be interested in discussing the thing I wanted to talk about, but instead wants to correct my opinions, I think the best thing to do is let this topic die. I will try to do this on my own, and if it works, I'll post it in my own cube topic. I'm not trying to be a problem, and I never intended for this to end up in the DKA spoiler thread, so just let it go.
Legendary Creaute - Zombie Cleric
Intimidate
Whenever a Human deals damage to you, destroy it.
Other non-Human creatures you control get +1/+1 and have undying.
5/5
Not sure how good that really is. It has some potential, but fails the terminate test pretty hard. Right now I'm thinking I'd rather have Sorin Markov than this guy for 3BBB, but I think I like Kokusho better than both.
Until them I'll be thinking in the angry dome.
EDIT: I think it isn't that good. The No Mercy ability won't matter too much at the game stage where you drop this guy, and the undying-granting ability isn't going to help all that much that late in the game, especially for the kind of deck likely to run him.
I'm not feeling the love for new Mikaeus. Seems pretty bad unless your opponent is human heavy, even then ... It's not like giving other dudes undying matters since they just kill Mikaeus first. Ok vs. Sweeper I guess.
I think there are at least two other black fatties I would run before Mikaeus, and that's at 720+. The body is subpar and the No Mercy ability is near-irrelevant. The only interesting attraction is the anthem + undying. And what kind of deck wants that effect at six mana? I feel like the body is almost a liability at that point. If it was an enchantment with the No Mercy ability and anthem + undying, its value would probably jump a ton for me.
[CARD]
Flayer of the Hatebound[/CARD] seems marginally more interesting, but the low stats and graveyard trigger kill its cubeability. Shame that undying is probably going to get restricted to nerfed or vanilla fat rather than the treatment persist got.
I think there are at least two other black fatties I would run before Mikaeus, and that's at 720+. The body is subpar and the No Mercy ability is near-irrelevant. The only interesting attraction is the anthem + undying. And what kind of deck wants that effect at six mana? I feel like the body is almost a liability at that point. If it was an enchantment with the No Mercy ability and anthem + undying, its value would probably jump a ton for me.
[CARD]
Flayer of the Hatebound[/CARD] seems marginally more interesting, but the low stats and graveyard trigger kill its cubeability. Shame that undying is probably going to get restricted to nerfed or vanilla fat rather than the treatment persist got.
If Mikaeus didn't say other creatures than I'd absolutely run him, but because he is killable I don't think he's quite worth it. I may run him for a while in the just until something better comes along spot, but he's not acually cubable.
As for Flayer, I think he's really good, but I'll have to check my red section to see if it really wants that kind of cards, but I think it doesn't.
I think there are at least two other black fatties I would run before Mikaeus, and that's at 720+. The body is subpar and the No Mercy ability is near-irrelevant. The only interesting attraction is the anthem + undying. And what kind of deck wants that effect at six mana? I feel like the body is almost a liability at that point. If it was an enchantment with the No Mercy ability and anthem + undying, its value would probably jump a ton for me.
[CARD]
Flayer of the Hatebound[/CARD] seems marginally more interesting, but the low stats and graveyard trigger kill its cubeability. Shame that undying is probably going to get restricted to nerfed or vanilla fat rather than the treatment persist got.
As for the Flayer - six mana puts it in that awkward area where it can't act as a curve topper for aggro, and midrange red decks would rather just have Inferno Titan or Crater Hellion. The fact that he does have a CC of 5R does entertain the notion of splashability, though I don't really think he's good enough at 720.
I don't know if Flayer compares favorably even to something like Firemaw Kavu; its design seems to be at least partially based on that TSP card. Getting the ETB effect is more important than getting it into the yard for the effect. And with so many ways of dealing with creatures other than straight up destruction (bounce, exile, steal, tap) you may never even get that trigger.
I wonder if undying makes it cubeable even without the damage trigger.
Disappointed with the new Mikaeus as far as Cube is concerned. No way it comes close to making the cut with me. Hopefully we get some more interesting cards later this week. To be fair, we've been really spoiled by DKA's Cube quality so far. There are entire *blocks* that don't have as many Cube cards as DKA will end up having.
Flayer of the Hatebound is a pretty interesting card. It reminds me of Chandra, the Firebrand it that it's a "red" card that doesn't go in traditional red decks. Theoretically it's at least a 3-for-1, which is pretty nice, but I still don't know if it's good enough for 6 mana. There are some really good things that cost 6.
Flayer of the Hatebound reminds me of Flametongue Kavu lol. Same body, and it has the same effect when it comes out of the graveyard as the kavu does when it etbs.
Flayer of the Hatebound and the new Mikaeus are both powerfull cards, but just too slow for cube (up to a certain size 850+?). Mikaeus costs triple black and is not gamebraking as Grave Titan or as abusable as Kukusho. Flayer remains a 4/2 for 6 mana, sure it does a lot afterwords but when you play it you get stuck with very mediocre stats.
Flayer of the Hatebound reminds me of Flametongue Kavu lol. Same body, and it has the same effect when it comes out of the graveyard as the kavu does when it etbs.
Not really - it's 5 damage, which can also go to the dome. That's a lot better, but at 6 mana and only getting the effect when the overcosted body dies makes it not for small/midsized cubes.
So I agree with Hicham for both new cards, they don't have a chance to get included in our cube.
I'd run the Flayer at 5 mana as that's a massive hole in the curve for most red sections, and he is essentially unblockable unless you want to be taking 5 to the face and staring down a 5/3. At 6 mana, he's a little on the costly side. He'll be comboed with in EDH for sure.
As for Mikaeus, he's just not what control wants, as you don't expect to be packing a bunch of other creatures to profit from his ability. If he had Undying himself I'd be considering him strongly. His anti-human ability is even relevant. But looking at his design, he's totally intended as a Commander. Misses out in cube though.
When I first read Flayer, I thought he (and all your other creatures) triggered when he entered the battlefield. I was doing some serious contemplating about that guy. Then I read carefully and saw that it's when they come in from the graveyard. Damn. So close.
Then I did the same damn thing with Mikaeus. I didn't see that it was other creatures, and I thought he was undying on his own. I was seriously considering him for the cube too, and then I re-read it again. Damn. So close.
TL;DR: If you read the cards carefully, they're not good enough.
When I first read Flayer, I thought he (and all your other creatures) triggered when he entered the battlefield. I was doing some serious contemplating about that guy. Then I read carefully and saw that it's when they come in from the graveyard. Damn. So close.
Then I did the same damn thing with Mikaeus. I didn't see that it was other creatures, and I thought he was undying on his own. I was seriously considering him for the cube too, and then I re-read it again. Damn. So close.
TL;DR: If you read the cards carefully, they're not good enough.
I lol'ed. Flayer would be so fricking good if that were the case.
Isn't the Flayer pretty terrible as printed? When i was reading it, i ws wondering why it's a Rare. 6 mana? Really? I'd sooner play the guy from Innistrad that shocks whenever a creature hits the graveyard.
Nah, it's pretty good. Flayer + Recurring Nightmare or any other reanimation seems really good.
A 5/3 for 6, that burns for 5 when it etb seems pretty good in itself.
Flayer of the Hatebound is actually good in my cube. I run Bogarden Hellkite for the purpose of a abuseable creature to sneak into play to deal 5 dmg. I can see the decks that we used to run Hellkite with, would be better served by running Flayer.. Reanimator decks would just eat this guy up!
Well, I'm running a bigger cube and I'm extremely excited about this land. Basilisk Collar still does some work for us here, and this does it for all your creatures. This card is going to be almost impossible to race and makes blocking with bigger creatures a poor plan. I can't wait to see the rest of the cycle.
Regardless, this is pointless. There was an entire thread about why I have had trouble with green aggro, and while many people liked it a lot, I wasn't the only person who didn't find it getting drafted much. I didn't bring this up in hopes that you could all talk me back into green aggro. Explaining to my group that they should draft Jungle Lion when it hasn't been good ever when they've drafted it won't result in them drafting it. I had hoped that someone else might actually find this idea kind of cool, but instead almost all of the comments have received have been about how green aggro is actually good, and how Upheaval belongs in all cubes, and and how all the cards I was talking about were already in everybody's cubes.
Since nobody seems to be interested in discussing the thing I wanted to talk about, but instead wants to correct my opinions, I think the best thing to do is let this topic die. I will try to do this on my own, and if it works, I'll post it in my own cube topic. I'm not trying to be a problem, and I never intended for this to end up in the DKA spoiler thread, so just let it go.
J
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed 3BBB
Legendary Creaute - Zombie Cleric
Intimidate
Whenever a Human deals damage to you, destroy it.
Other non-Human creatures you control get +1/+1 and have undying.
5/5
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
Not sure how good that really is. It has some potential, but fails the terminate test pretty hard. Right now I'm thinking I'd rather have Sorin Markov than this guy for 3BBB, but I think I like Kokusho better than both.
Until them I'll be thinking in the angry dome.
EDIT: I think it isn't that good. The No Mercy ability won't matter too much at the game stage where you drop this guy, and the undying-granting ability isn't going to help all that much that late in the game, especially for the kind of deck likely to run him.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
[CARD]
Flayer of the Hatebound[/CARD] seems marginally more interesting, but the low stats and graveyard trigger kill its cubeability. Shame that undying is probably going to get restricted to nerfed or vanilla fat rather than the treatment persist got.
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If Mikaeus didn't say other creatures than I'd absolutely run him, but because he is killable I don't think he's quite worth it. I may run him for a while in the just until something better comes along spot, but he's not acually cubable.
As for Flayer, I think he's really good, but I'll have to check my red section to see if it really wants that kind of cards, but I think it doesn't.
This.
I agree with the Mikaeus comment at six where I would definitely rather have Grave Titan, Kokusho, the Evening Star,Sheoldred, Whisperine One, and Ink Eyes, Servant of Oni (Though how frequently is he cast) filling out the top end. I would likely addSkeletal Vampire back before I considered Mikaeus.
As for the Flayer - six mana puts it in that awkward area where it can't act as a curve topper for aggro, and midrange red decks would rather just have Inferno Titan or Crater Hellion. The fact that he does have a CC of 5R does entertain the notion of splashability, though I don't really think he's good enough at 720.
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I wonder if undying makes it cubeable even without the damage trigger.
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Not really - it's 5 damage, which can also go to the dome. That's a lot better, but at 6 mana and only getting the effect when the overcosted body dies makes it not for small/midsized cubes.
So I agree with Hicham for both new cards, they don't have a chance to get included in our cube.
As for Mikaeus, he's just not what control wants, as you don't expect to be packing a bunch of other creatures to profit from his ability. If he had Undying himself I'd be considering him strongly. His anti-human ability is even relevant. But looking at his design, he's totally intended as a Commander. Misses out in cube though.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Then I did the same damn thing with Mikaeus. I didn't see that it was other creatures, and I thought he was undying on his own. I was seriously considering him for the cube too, and then I re-read it again. Damn. So close.
TL;DR: If you read the cards carefully, they're not good enough.
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I lol'ed. Flayer would be so fricking good if that were the case.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
A 4/2 and a 5/3 that deals 9 direct damage on its own? When I first read it, I thought Wizards had invited killem2 into their design team.
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Nah, it's pretty good. Flayer + Recurring Nightmare or any other reanimation seems really good.
A 5/3 for 6, that burns for 5 when it etb seems pretty good in itself.
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T: add 1 to your mana pool.
T, 2BW: all of your creatures gain lifelink and deathtouch.
Apparently part of a cycle. Thoughts?
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Kind of pales in comparison to Gavony Township. I'm not so sure it is that great.
I'm eagerly awaiting the RW and the BG one though.
I want to see the BG one for sure.
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