Backround (Skip if you don't care, I don't mind) - Many years after selling my collection I have come back to magic to find the game better than ever. One of the most appealing things to me is limited and I am particularly interested in is cube thanks to the users here. For the most part I am getting bargin rares and staple C/U. But I have had a lot of donations, as well as the occasionaly spluge on classics I can't resist (Sol Ring, Demonic Tutor, Wheel of Fortune, Balnce etc.)
While I don't have the whole list done yet I am trying to figure out how to best use the limited space I have for creatures in blue. My spell list is pretty stantard full of counters, card selection/draw, nasty enchantments.
Is the drake really that good in cube? I like 3 CC to either go agro or be able to dropa threat and leave counter man open, but the dragon is a house if left unchecked and much better at blocking and killing opponents midrangy stuff?
The other factor is that trading away the drake could like get me a handful of great cube cards I am missing isn all colors, blue is likely to be the strongest no matter what budget I seem to give it.
On a side note Isee most lists without a single blue 1 drop creature. I assume Delver of Secrets is being added to most and with that I would argue phantasmal bear allow great suppost of a X/u Agro, or a x/U tempo style. Both of which I love and would pull some of the power of blue out of the control decks.
@Sea Drake: I love me some Sea Drake, but the tempo bump is huge (some people even refuse to run Daze). Even aggro decks don't want to go 1drop-2drop-3drop-2drop, and it is certainly eliminated from midrange, tempo, and control decks.
@Serendib: Has been squeezed by some solid additions to the blue creature pool, but should still be a staple.
@ Phant Dragon: A four drop that dies to ever piece of removal, plus so very, very common repeatable effects? I'll take Dungeon Geists at -2/-2.
@ Delver: Not in cube. I don't need a 3/2 on turn four, and I can't pack my decks with enough instants and sorceries to ensure that he will be a 3/2 in time to matter...especially the aggro decks that want him.
@ Phant Bear: I think Bear is a must if you support blue aggro at all. Enclave Cryptologist is currently the most popular blue one drop, btw.
Not many people play Sea Drake. It's very, very good with early power. However, the drawback is a little too severe for today's standards, when it is easily killed. It will see play, but I don't rate it highly any more.
Serendib Efreet is a fine creature at any cube size. It avoids burn by having 4 toughness and is huge for the cost. It's great for and against aggro and the life-loss is minimal. It's a blue card I look to splash for in aggro.
Phantasmal Dragon can't compete with other blue four-drops. Not by a long margin, actually. It's too fragile for a finisher, for too little upside. Opponents' Icy effects or any targeted removal will end in massive tempo loss, and it's only +1/+1 above the curve compared to 4/4 fliers for 4, which don't see play.
The other factor is that trading away the drake could like get me a handful of great cube cards I am missing isn all colors, blue is likely to be the strongest no matter what budget I seem to give it.
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I assume Delver of Secrets is being added to most and with that I would argue phantasmal bear allow great suppost of a X/u Agro, or a x/U tempo style. Both of which I love and would pull some of the power of blue out of the control decks.
I wouldn't make that assumption. Delver is terrible without significant ability to control your top card. In cube aggro, the chances of that instant/sorcery being on top are lessened. It's a miss for cube.
As for Phantasmal Bear - he's an OK card, for sure. You won't suffer tempo loss on your investment because he costs U. Most effects fall into the bracket of 'would've killed him anyway', which makes him infinitely better than the Dragon. It's playable if you want to push blue aggro. My preference in blue is for strong cards that are playable in any archetype - there're enough of them for even big cubes - and Bear isn't one of them.
I love Serendib Efreet. The other two cards you list are OK, but there are way better midrange flyers in blue. I would run all of these before I'd consider those two:
Sea Drake is great when you can play it off moxen or artifact mana and kinda meh if you have to play it off lands. It fits a more aggro/tempo blue strategy that you really have to commit to if you want to support it in your cube. The Dragon is nothng special for cube; I don't want my beefy flyer to die to Icy Manipulator or Fireslinger.
Most cubes do not run a lot of blue 1-drops because blue is the least aggressive color and because most of its 1-drop creatures are unimpressive. Most are passing on Delver of Secrets because it will be hard to flip it reliably. Cube is not constructed where you are running 4 Ponders to set up the flip on t2. Delver is just going to be too inconsistent. Phantasmal Bear is only good if you are really pushing blue tempo hard.
The best 1-drop creature for blue is Enclave Cryptologist. I think a lot of cubes with 450 or more cards are running that creature.
I agree with the others, though I am still going to be testing Delver of Secrets (which is not a popular card due to said differences between constructed and limited deckbuilding options). I run a lot of other blue tempo/aggressive cards - which may arguably make him worse in practice, with a higher proportion of creatures in blue.
On the other hand, I think that with the right kind of support, you can make it good. If you include more library manipulation, he gets better. It doesn't have to be in blue, either. It could be running Crystal Ball, or Sylvan Library, or whatever.
I actually don't care much for Phantasmal Bear, since it's a non-evasive 2/2 that is easy to kill and is non-synergistic with equipment. I would concentrate on the plethora of better 2-mana evasive guys like Looter il-Kor, and maybe even Invisible Stalker.
Sea Drake can be good, but the tempo setback is pretty severe; limiting it's applications.
Serendib Efreet on the other hand is a creature I really like. The 4 toughnes keeps it out of Bolt range, and 3 power and evasion is nice for 2U. It doesn't have drawbacks that prevent me from playing it in any particular archetype. Even control likes having a creature that can come down with those stats that early.
The drawback on the Phantasmal Dragon is too extreme for a 4 mana investment. It just dies to too much stuff.
The 1-drops are pretty lackluster. Delver has a hard time flipping in an environment like this; cube decks that want aggressive 1-drops don't run a ton of non-creature cards. And the Bear is even more fragile than typical 2-power 1-drops. Blue aggro is a good archetype, and can thrive without adding in cards that are only good in that one deck. There's no reason to detract from blue's excellent control suite to support a deck with bad cards when it's perfectly playable without them.
Thanks for the feedback. I was leaning to drop the drake for trades and I wasn't planning on the dragon, but now I think I will drop the bear too. Here is my current list of creatures I plan on running.
Delver of Secrets
Rootwater Theif
Serendib efreet
Phantasmal Image
Waterfront Bouncher
Thought Courier
Mindshreiker
Man-o-War
Jushi Apprentice
Invisible Stalker
Spellstutter Sprite
Thornwind Faeries
Tower Geists
Dungeon Geists
Mulldrifter
Beguiller of Wills
Draining Whelk
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Sphinx of Lost Truths
What really surpises me is the love of enclave cryptologist. He seems fundementally worse than a looter unless you have put 7 mana into him. Plus he can never be useful in combat.
What really surpises me is the love of enclave cryptologist. He seems fundementally worse than a looter unless you have put 7 mana into him. Plus he can never be useful in combat.
All the leveler creatures look bad until you play them. Once you do you see how strong they are. Cryptologist in particular comes online faster than a regular looter in addition to being a useful mana dump once your hand is low which gives it the edge over Merfolk Looter and co.
What really surpises me is the love of enclave cryptologist. He seems fundementally worse than a looter unless you have put 7 mana into him. Plus he can never be useful in combat.
Why Enclave is awesome:
No other looters can loot on turn 2, which is amazingly useful.
No other looters can be late game Card drawing machines. One drops that aren't horrible on turn 10? Sign me up!
Never useful in combat? The power of a chump blocker in a control deck (especially when said chumper is not dead versus non aggro decks) is large. Plus, 5 swords in every cube.
Ok I guess I didn't see the turn 2 aspect. But a chump blocker is not really something I am excted out for a cube card. At least being able to run over for one or kill a fast 2/1.
As for the swords, I don't have any at the moment, but I will certainly have plenty of equiment to make it worht it.
Maybe I will just go ahead and try it as it is a cheap pick up.
Thanks for the feedback. I was leaning to drop the drake for trades and I wasn't planning on the dragon, but now I think I will drop the bear too. Here is my current list of creatures I plan on running.
Delver of Secrets Rootwater Thief - This card is very low impact, try Coralhelm Commander
Serendib efreet
Phantasmal Image
Waterfront Bouncher Thought Courier - Pretty much the same as Merfolk Looter, but if you run the commander, the looter gets slightly better
Mindshreiker
Man-o-War
Jushi Apprentice Invisible Stalker - I don't have much love for this guy, you need good equipment in your deck to be effective. He's a little to swingy for me
Spellstutter Sprite Thornwind Faeries - Plenty of better 3 drops: Vendilion Clique, Wake Trasher, Aether Adept Tower Geists - Sea Gate Oracle is better imo
Dungeon Geists
Mulldrifter Beguiller of Wills - Meloku should be in the cube over this chick, she seems flashy but its really tough to get her to work
Draining Whelk
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Sphinx of Lost Truths
What really surpises me is the love of enclave cryptologist. He seems fundementally worse than a looter unless you have put 7 mana into him. Plus he can never be useful in combat.
I love Cryptologist for all the reasons stated above!
I'm going to play devil's advocate, and root against Enclave Cryptologist. I had her in my cube for about six months, and she was never that impressive. Blue control decks aren't that hard up for card quality, when blue tends to have the strongest card pool overall, so it tended to table over and over again. Even when I did draft it, it usually wouldn't make the cut - it wasn't difficult to find 23 other cards better than a looter. I think Merfolk Looter is a borderline cube card, anyways, and Cryptologist is just a sideways option, and not the pure upgrade that some are spinning it out to be. It's definitely not like Joraga Treespeaker, who at level 1, blows Llanowar Elves out of the water.
I noticed you put Spellstutter Sprite on your list of blue creatures. This is another one I tried, and was never very impressed with. It's very difficult to actually trap someone with its counterspell ability, with so few Faeries in the cube. I love me some flash on my creatures, but I found that a 1/1 for 2 didn't cut the mustard, when it couldn't reliably snag something on the way down. I've like to hear how it works for you, though, as you may come up with different results.
I kind of have the same issue that you originally brought up, as well. I run a Modern cube, so I don't have access to Serendib Efreet. In looking for replacements, I came across Stitched Drake and Vexing Sphinx. I haven't tested them, but they look ok, if not stellar. Would anyone be able to chime in on the merits of each?
Im gonna give props to Enclave Cryptologist as well. Most of the time players dont want to use removal on an 0/1 but when you have extra mana as a control deck should then you could pump that mana into her to make her even better. As others have mentioned she is a pure upgrade to Merfolk looter becuase of her versatility. Versatility is needed in cube. I will play her in every single deck that runs islands.
I'm going to play devil's advocate, and root against Enclave Cryptologist. I had her in my cube for about six months, and she was never that impressive. Blue control decks aren't that hard up for card quality, when blue tends to have the strongest card pool overall, so it tended to table over and over again. Even when I did draft it, it usually wouldn't make the cut - it wasn't difficult to find 23 other cards better than a looter. I think Merfolk Looter is a borderline cube card, anyways, and Cryptologist is just a sideways option, and not the pure upgrade that some are spinning it out to be. It's definitely not like Joraga Treespeaker, who at level 1, blows Llanowar Elves out of the water.
Your argument seems to be that she's bad because you always left her in your sideboard. Maybe she just had a poor early performance or 2 and you guys decided not to play her anymore? She's a solid looter but being able to dump mana into her so that she turns into a 1 sided Howling Mine is a really good ability on a 1 drop.
I mostly found that with my blue decks, I much preferred to leave mana up for my counterspells, or at the very least to bluff counterspells. So I never got the dream scenario of leveling her up multiple times, and occasionally not even the first time. I think, more than any other colour, leveling being sorcery speed hurts blue the most. I actually even have trouble finding good spots to level Coralhelm Commander, and he's only half the cost to power up.
This problem doesn't apply as much to levelers like Kargan Dragonlord, where your deck has a much more straightforward plan of "bash some guy's head in". But I find that blue decks reward holding back information and keeping mana available, especially in the early game. It feels like my group agrees with this philosophy, as I've observed them pass over Enclave Cryptologist time and again.
I mostly found that with my blue decks, I much preferred to leave mana up for my counterspells, or at the very least to bluff counterspells. So I never got the dream scenario of leveling her up multiple times, and occasionally not even the first time. I think, more than any other colour, leveling being sorcery speed hurts blue the most. I actually even have trouble finding good spots to level Coralhelm Commander, and he's only half the cost to power up.
This problem doesn't apply as much to levelers like Kargan Dragonlord, where your deck has a much more straightforward plan of "bash some guy's head in". But I find that blue decks reward holding back information and keeping mana available, especially in the early game. It feels like my group agrees with this philosophy, as I've observed them pass over Enclave Cryptologist time and again.
I get this point, but the tradeoff of leveling once (on turn two or after), in order to loot every turn, is usually worth it. Heck, many cubes ran Merfolk Looter at one point, which doesn't even give you the option of looting on turn two, or becoming a super looter.
Sure, instant speed would be better, but clearly tapping two mana in a blue deck isn't that big a deal, as blue decks are packed with 2+ sorcery speed creatures, artifacts and spells.
I'm not the biggest fan of Enclave Cryptologist, but it's by a huge margin the best blue one drop (Hapless Researcher maybe second?), and it was safe in my cube at 450. Cut it when I went down to 400 and haven't missed it particularly.
I kind of have the same issue that you originally brought up, as well. I run a Modern cube, so I don't have access to Serendib Efreet. In looking for replacements, I came across Stitched Drake and Vexing Sphinx. I haven't tested them, but they look ok, if not stellar. Would anyone be able to chime in on the merits of each?
I run Vexing Sphinx and it has been very good. It fits into the blue aggressive decks nicely, and has even seen play in reanimator as a stop-gap against aggro plus graveyard enabler.
Thaks for all of the advice. Most of these upgrades are doable as I pick up the cards.
I went with the Thornwind Fareies to upgrade the Faeries count for Spellstutter and because my group is nestalgic for Tim(Prodigal Sorcerer) and I hated to leave blue without one. But realisticallt is only 5(3 blue, 1 land, 1 black) in the cube so maybe I will sideline this whim for more power.
I would still like to give the Tower Giests a try over sea gate because of the overall flyer count I am trying to keep.
While I don't have the whole list done yet I am trying to figure out how to best use the limited space I have for creatures in blue. My spell list is pretty stantard full of counters, card selection/draw, nasty enchantments.
Specifically the merits of 1-2 of the following
Sea Drake
Serendib Efreet
Phantasmal Dragon
Is the drake really that good in cube? I like 3 CC to either go agro or be able to dropa threat and leave counter man open, but the dragon is a house if left unchecked and much better at blocking and killing opponents midrangy stuff?
The other factor is that trading away the drake could like get me a handful of great cube cards I am missing isn all colors, blue is likely to be the strongest no matter what budget I seem to give it.
On a side note Isee most lists without a single blue 1 drop creature. I assume Delver of Secrets is being added to most and with that I would argue phantasmal bear allow great suppost of a X/u Agro, or a x/U tempo style. Both of which I love and would pull some of the power of blue out of the control decks.
Thanks
@Serendib: Has been squeezed by some solid additions to the blue creature pool, but should still be a staple.
@ Phant Dragon: A four drop that dies to ever piece of removal, plus so very, very common repeatable effects? I'll take Dungeon Geists at -2/-2.
@ Delver: Not in cube. I don't need a 3/2 on turn four, and I can't pack my decks with enough instants and sorceries to ensure that he will be a 3/2 in time to matter...especially the aggro decks that want him.
@ Phant Bear: I think Bear is a must if you support blue aggro at all. Enclave Cryptologist is currently the most popular blue one drop, btw.
Not many people play Sea Drake. It's very, very good with early power. However, the drawback is a little too severe for today's standards, when it is easily killed. It will see play, but I don't rate it highly any more.
Serendib Efreet is a fine creature at any cube size. It avoids burn by having 4 toughness and is huge for the cost. It's great for and against aggro and the life-loss is minimal. It's a blue card I look to splash for in aggro.
Phantasmal Dragon can't compete with other blue four-drops. Not by a long margin, actually. It's too fragile for a finisher, for too little upside. Opponents' Icy effects or any targeted removal will end in massive tempo loss, and it's only +1/+1 above the curve compared to 4/4 fliers for 4, which don't see play.
Do this.
I wouldn't make that assumption. Delver is terrible without significant ability to control your top card. In cube aggro, the chances of that instant/sorcery being on top are lessened. It's a miss for cube.
As for Phantasmal Bear - he's an OK card, for sure. You won't suffer tempo loss on your investment because he costs U. Most effects fall into the bracket of 'would've killed him anyway', which makes him infinitely better than the Dragon. It's playable if you want to push blue aggro. My preference in blue is for strong cards that are playable in any archetype - there're enough of them for even big cubes - and Bear isn't one of them.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
And I'd possibly run
I'm sure I'm missing a few.
Sea Drake is great when you can play it off moxen or artifact mana and kinda meh if you have to play it off lands. It fits a more aggro/tempo blue strategy that you really have to commit to if you want to support it in your cube. The Dragon is nothng special for cube; I don't want my beefy flyer to die to Icy Manipulator or Fireslinger.
Most cubes do not run a lot of blue 1-drops because blue is the least aggressive color and because most of its 1-drop creatures are unimpressive. Most are passing on Delver of Secrets because it will be hard to flip it reliably. Cube is not constructed where you are running 4 Ponders to set up the flip on t2. Delver is just going to be too inconsistent. Phantasmal Bear is only good if you are really pushing blue tempo hard.
The best 1-drop creature for blue is Enclave Cryptologist. I think a lot of cubes with 450 or more cards are running that creature.
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On the other hand, I think that with the right kind of support, you can make it good. If you include more library manipulation, he gets better. It doesn't have to be in blue, either. It could be running Crystal Ball, or Sylvan Library, or whatever.
I actually don't care much for Phantasmal Bear, since it's a non-evasive 2/2 that is easy to kill and is non-synergistic with equipment. I would concentrate on the plethora of better 2-mana evasive guys like Looter il-Kor, and maybe even Invisible Stalker.
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Serendib Efreet on the other hand is a creature I really like. The 4 toughnes keeps it out of Bolt range, and 3 power and evasion is nice for 2U. It doesn't have drawbacks that prevent me from playing it in any particular archetype. Even control likes having a creature that can come down with those stats that early.
The drawback on the Phantasmal Dragon is too extreme for a 4 mana investment. It just dies to too much stuff.
The 1-drops are pretty lackluster. Delver has a hard time flipping in an environment like this; cube decks that want aggressive 1-drops don't run a ton of non-creature cards. And the Bear is even more fragile than typical 2-power 1-drops. Blue aggro is a good archetype, and can thrive without adding in cards that are only good in that one deck. There's no reason to detract from blue's excellent control suite to support a deck with bad cards when it's perfectly playable without them.
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Delver of Secrets
Rootwater Theif
Serendib efreet
Phantasmal Image
Waterfront Bouncher
Thought Courier
Mindshreiker
Man-o-War
Jushi Apprentice
Invisible Stalker
Spellstutter Sprite
Thornwind Faeries
Tower Geists
Dungeon Geists
Mulldrifter
Beguiller of Wills
Draining Whelk
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Sphinx of Lost Truths
What really surpises me is the love of enclave cryptologist. He seems fundementally worse than a looter unless you have put 7 mana into him. Plus he can never be useful in combat.
All the leveler creatures look bad until you play them. Once you do you see how strong they are. Cryptologist in particular comes online faster than a regular looter in addition to being a useful mana dump once your hand is low which gives it the edge over Merfolk Looter and co.
Why Enclave is awesome:
No other looters can loot on turn 2, which is amazingly useful.
No other looters can be late game Card drawing machines. One drops that aren't horrible on turn 10? Sign me up!
Never useful in combat? The power of a chump blocker in a control deck (especially when said chumper is not dead versus non aggro decks) is large. Plus, 5 swords in every cube.
tl;dr: Versatility gentlemen.
As for the swords, I don't have any at the moment, but I will certainly have plenty of equiment to make it worht it.
Maybe I will just go ahead and try it as it is a cheap pick up.
I love Cryptologist for all the reasons stated above!
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I noticed you put Spellstutter Sprite on your list of blue creatures. This is another one I tried, and was never very impressed with. It's very difficult to actually trap someone with its counterspell ability, with so few Faeries in the cube. I love me some flash on my creatures, but I found that a 1/1 for 2 didn't cut the mustard, when it couldn't reliably snag something on the way down. I've like to hear how it works for you, though, as you may come up with different results.
I kind of have the same issue that you originally brought up, as well. I run a Modern cube, so I don't have access to Serendib Efreet. In looking for replacements, I came across Stitched Drake and Vexing Sphinx. I haven't tested them, but they look ok, if not stellar. Would anyone be able to chime in on the merits of each?
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Your argument seems to be that she's bad because you always left her in your sideboard. Maybe she just had a poor early performance or 2 and you guys decided not to play her anymore? She's a solid looter but being able to dump mana into her so that she turns into a 1 sided Howling Mine is a really good ability on a 1 drop.
This problem doesn't apply as much to levelers like Kargan Dragonlord, where your deck has a much more straightforward plan of "bash some guy's head in". But I find that blue decks reward holding back information and keeping mana available, especially in the early game. It feels like my group agrees with this philosophy, as I've observed them pass over Enclave Cryptologist time and again.
I get this point, but the tradeoff of leveling once (on turn two or after), in order to loot every turn, is usually worth it. Heck, many cubes ran Merfolk Looter at one point, which doesn't even give you the option of looting on turn two, or becoming a super looter.
Sure, instant speed would be better, but clearly tapping two mana in a blue deck isn't that big a deal, as blue decks are packed with 2+ sorcery speed creatures, artifacts and spells.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I run Vexing Sphinx and it has been very good. It fits into the blue aggressive decks nicely, and has even seen play in reanimator as a stop-gap against aggro plus graveyard enabler.
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I went with the Thornwind Fareies to upgrade the Faeries count for Spellstutter and because my group is nestalgic for Tim(Prodigal Sorcerer) and I hated to leave blue without one. But realisticallt is only 5(3 blue, 1 land, 1 black) in the cube so maybe I will sideline this whim for more power.
I would still like to give the Tower Giests a try over sea gate because of the overall flyer count I am trying to keep.
If you want a flying 4-drop in blue: Sower of Temptation, Glen Elendra Archmage are miles ahead of Tower Geist. Thieving Magpie is better as well
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That is one I think I will drop the giests for.