Primal command Is a card which has been a very good toolbox card in my 380 unpowered cube. People run cards such as bramblecrush and i would argue that that would be the spot this card should take. At the cost of one mana primal command can shuffle the permanent into an opponents library along with his graveyard, which can be a lot better than outright destroying it(enemy sun titan or reanimator deck) , or could be worse. However the command offers a lot of advantages as well
-Prevents milling (I've personally survived a jace 3 0'ing for 5 turns thanks to this) which is definitely just a fringe benefit
-Allows creatures combos to continue after all gas is used ala Birthing pod], Natural order or even just a lot of removal
-Allows ramp to survive against aggro for a good chunk, 7 life is relevant.
-Is a creature tutor, that can even tutor from the yard.
"The modes happen in the order that they are printed. So, if you chose to shuffle your GY into your library and search for a creature... the shuffle happens first so you definitely can get a creature that was in your graveyard."- Shire5k
-doesn't have lame flavor text
Really primal command has been the winning toolbox in any deck that runs green in my cube. Every time I want to take it out, mostly because i see it in no other cube on these forums, it decides to win in a new combination of its abilities.
I've been thinking more about this card recently, and I may add it in soon. It's good in the superramp archetype because I can tutor a big threat and gain life to stall. It's also a 5cc Bramblecrush if I need it to be, and I can also use it as a huge tempo swing by gaining 7 life and putting a land on top of their deck.
In fact, I think I'm going to playtest this card now, lol.
I like this card, and had always, but is has been removed for being too slow.
Now that you mentioned it is a 5cc Bramblecrush with another effect, I feel a bit stupid not realizing it earlier and playing Bramblecrush instead of this. I'm not gonna playtest it, i'm gonna swap it right now.
Now that you mentioned it is a 5cc Bramblecrush with another effect, I feel a bit stupid not realizing it earlier and playing Bramblecrush instead of this. I'm not gonna playtest it, i'm gonna swap it right now.
While this is true, the extra 1 can be a big deal if you're not supporting the decktypes that can take advantage of the other two modes (green control and/or super-ramp). I'm going to test it out along with my new super ramp archetype and see if it proves out better than Bramblecrush now. But without the support for that deck, I'd rather have the faster answer.
It's not exactly bramblecrush: top of the library is much different from destroy. The tempo gain is good, but it's not the same as destroy and sometimes that matters.
I used to love this card but I cut it for being very slow. I could see adding it in, gaining 7 life and searching for a fatty (which have gotten significantly better since this cards printing) could just end the game. I could easily see you gain 7 against aggro to survive the next turn, and grab wurmcoil to decimate them, or massacre wurm.
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It's not exactly bramblecrush: top of the library is much different from destroy. The tempo gain is good, but it's not the same as destroy and sometimes that matters.
You can then shuffle their library, which effectively removes it. I mean, there's always a chance they can re-draw the card, but that's probably about as likely as them having a way to get it back from their 'yard somehow.
Yeah, Choosing put target noncreature permanent on top of its owner's library and then choosing target player shuffles his or her graveyard and library together, effectively removes the permanenet, which is its most common purpose
Its second most common purpose in my cube is Gaining 7 life and Tutoring a creature, against aggro and midrange can be really really nice
Its 3rd purpose is mostly suited to birthing pod.dec after the deck runs out of juice, by shuffling its graveyard into the library to continue chains, and doing one of the other options, like tutoring a creature you just shuffed back into your deck.
You can even recur it if you really want to.
When I tried it this spell always seemed to be "Choose one - shuffle target non-creature permanent into its owner's library; or tutor for a creature gain seven life to mitigate against durdling around with a five mana tutor".
I like flexible spells in cube, but this always seemed one mana too expensive (although CC4 would probably be too cheap).
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I think this card's a house and is one of the best reasons to go green. "Here, let's put that planeswalker on the top of your deck, I'll tutor for...Mold Shambler."
The more I play cube the more I like tutors, and I like this one a lot because when you don't need it to be a tutor it doesn't have to be.
I think this card's a house and is one of the best reasons to go green. "Here, let's put that planeswalker on the top of your deck, I'll tutor for...Mold Shambler."
that is not a very impressive play. wouldn't it be better to just blow up the walker instead of giving them another activation?
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
that is not a very impressive play. wouldn't it be better to just blow up the walker instead of giving them another activation?
Probably, but this way I've also ruined their draw, and if they do decide to play the 'walker, given they know that I have Shambler in hand, they've used their mana on that instead of something else. 9 times out of 10 I'll take that, depending on the board and which particular planeswalker it is (if it's Elspeth Tirel, not that great. If it's Gideon, I'm pretty happy).
I like this card, and had always, but is has been removed for being too slow.
Now that you mentioned it is a 5cc Bramblecrush with another effect, I feel a bit stupid not realizing it earlier and playing Bramblecrush instead of this. I'm not gonna playtest it, i'm gonna swap it right now.
On the other hand, versatility is a rare feature in green, so I am tempted to put it in. the addition of mana elves and ramp artifacts makes 5cc slightly easier.
Will definitely test. May even complement Plow Under in a tempo deck.
it may not have been the best play, but it certainly was annoying. Last night my friend turn 3 plow undered me turn 4 primal commanded the land i played away into my deck, turn 6 snapcaster, flashed back plow undered me... It sucked to be me.
A couple of plays with it have imply been for card advantage. A pseudo-Temporal Spring + Eladamri's Call has been a solid 2-for-1. And don't underestimate 7 life. The life + Spring is great tempo recovery. The most commonly used modes are Life + Tutor (great for big ramp decks) or Ebb + Shuffle to remove a problematic permanent.
Primal has always been good, I never understood all the hate for it. It's not at all too slow for green decks and outside of an aggressive zoo deck it's exactly what green wants to be doing.
Most common modes for us are Tutor/Gain 7 and Gain 7/Bounce.
On the other hand, versatility is a rare feature in green, so I am tempted to put it in. the addition of mana elves and ramp artifacts makes 5cc slightly easier.
Will definitely test. May even complement Plow Under in a tempo deck.
I tried Stunted Growth and Primal Command. Growth is a high variance card, either really good or dead. I don't mind a few of those, but I don't want too many, and Plow Under is the king of those types of cards in my book. Primal Command is intriguing, if I had space I would run it, but there are a lot of interesting effects I want and not enough space. In the end, Primal Command loses out to cards like Natural Order.
I added Primal Command over Bramblecrush and I think it is easily worth the additional 1 to get so many options, especially if your green section is more ramp focused.
If you have a good sized focus on ramp, it's worth the extra mana. For general "good stuff" decks produced from Sealed and Winston, I prefer Bramblecrush, because it's cheaper. But in my draft ramp archetype decks, Primal Command has been better. I guess it depends on what you support and what format you expect to play.
I've had this in since the beginning, and only just cut it last week, and reluctantly at that.
In a midrange or ramp deck, it's always fine, if not spectacular. Gaining 7 and tutoring up some fat are the most commonly used modes, and there the card does its job ably. The problem I have is that it's the prototypical "durdly" card - it typically has no impact on board state, puts you behind on tempo by costing you a turn, and is in that weird middle-of-the-curve spot of ramp decks that often blow right by 5 mana and go straight to 6 or 7. In other words, if I had a fatty sitting on the sidelines, I'd usually rather run it in place of this in my big green decks.
Really, though, I think the main reason I'm removing it is that it's been edged out recently by Garruk, Primal Hunter. In our drafts, midrange decks usually prefer the board presence that planeswalkers provide, to a flexible but ultimately less powerful sorcery.
Primal command Is a card which has been a very good toolbox card in my 380 unpowered cube. People run cards such as bramblecrush and i would argue that that would be the spot this card should take. At the cost of one mana primal command can shuffle the permanent into an opponents library along with his graveyard, which can be a lot better than outright destroying it(enemy sun titan or reanimator deck) , or could be worse. However the command offers a lot of advantages as well
-Prevents milling (I've personally survived a jace 3 0'ing for 5 turns thanks to this) which is definitely just a fringe benefit
-Allows creatures combos to continue after all gas is used ala Birthing pod], Natural order or even just a lot of removal
-Allows ramp to survive against aggro for a good chunk, 7 life is relevant.
-Is a creature tutor, that can even tutor from the yard.
"The modes happen in the order that they are printed. So, if you chose to shuffle your GY into your library and search for a creature... the shuffle happens first so you definitely can get a creature that was in your graveyard."- Shire5k
-doesn't have lame flavor text
Really primal command has been the winning toolbox in any deck that runs green in my cube. Every time I want to take it out, mostly because i see it in no other cube on these forums, it decides to win in a new combination of its abilities.
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In fact, I think I'm going to playtest this card now, lol.
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Now that you mentioned it is a 5cc Bramblecrush with another effect, I feel a bit stupid not realizing it earlier and playing Bramblecrush instead of this. I'm not gonna playtest it, i'm gonna swap it right now.
While this is true, the extra 1 can be a big deal if you're not supporting the decktypes that can take advantage of the other two modes (green control and/or super-ramp). I'm going to test it out along with my new super ramp archetype and see if it proves out better than Bramblecrush now. But without the support for that deck, I'd rather have the faster answer.
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You can then shuffle their library, which effectively removes it. I mean, there's always a chance they can re-draw the card, but that's probably about as likely as them having a way to get it back from their 'yard somehow.
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Its second most common purpose in my cube is Gaining 7 life and Tutoring a creature, against aggro and midrange can be really really nice
Its 3rd purpose is mostly suited to birthing pod.dec after the deck runs out of juice, by shuffling its graveyard into the library to continue chains, and doing one of the other options, like tutoring a creature you just shuffed back into your deck.
You can even recur it if you really want to.
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I like flexible spells in cube, but this always seemed one mana too expensive (although CC4 would probably be too cheap).
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The more I play cube the more I like tutors, and I like this one a lot because when you don't need it to be a tutor it doesn't have to be.
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that is not a very impressive play. wouldn't it be better to just blow up the walker instead of giving them another activation?
Probably, but this way I've also ruined their draw, and if they do decide to play the 'walker, given they know that I have Shambler in hand, they've used their mana on that instead of something else. 9 times out of 10 I'll take that, depending on the board and which particular planeswalker it is (if it's Elspeth Tirel, not that great. If it's Gideon, I'm pretty happy).
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I want to try it, but I feel 5cc has been stacked for green's removal cards; Acidic Slime, Idrik Stomphowler, wickerbough elder, so I am inclined to have a 4cc early removal spell.
On the other hand, versatility is a rare feature in green, so I am tempted to put it in. the addition of mana elves and ramp artifacts makes 5cc slightly easier.
Will definitely test. May even complement Plow Under in a tempo deck.
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Most common modes for us are Tutor/Gain 7 and Gain 7/Bounce.
You can add Stunted Growth to that list for tempo green
I tried Stunted Growth and Primal Command. Growth is a high variance card, either really good or dead. I don't mind a few of those, but I don't want too many, and Plow Under is the king of those types of cards in my book. Primal Command is intriguing, if I had space I would run it, but there are a lot of interesting effects I want and not enough space. In the end, Primal Command loses out to cards like Natural Order.
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In a midrange or ramp deck, it's always fine, if not spectacular. Gaining 7 and tutoring up some fat are the most commonly used modes, and there the card does its job ably. The problem I have is that it's the prototypical "durdly" card - it typically has no impact on board state, puts you behind on tempo by costing you a turn, and is in that weird middle-of-the-curve spot of ramp decks that often blow right by 5 mana and go straight to 6 or 7. In other words, if I had a fatty sitting on the sidelines, I'd usually rather run it in place of this in my big green decks.
Really, though, I think the main reason I'm removing it is that it's been edged out recently by Garruk, Primal Hunter. In our drafts, midrange decks usually prefer the board presence that planeswalkers provide, to a flexible but ultimately less powerful sorcery.
Waht?
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I'm wondering what people's experience with this card is?
I'm already running Green Sun's Zenith and Tooth and Nail for creature tutor. I've also got the following 5 mana spells Garruk, Primal Hunter, Plow Under, and Rude Awakening (not really a 5 drop)
Redundant threads merged.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979