If you tried to push reanimator, would you consider cards like Imp and Infestation for 450?
I certainly am considering them for my 450 powered. I'm currently conflicted on what to do with my black section, as it seems many are. When we Winston/Winchester/Solomon, black is a solid contributor. When we booster or roto, decks are rarely ever black based. Even reanimator decks run it as a subtheme in a blue control or green ramp deck. I can't decide if pushing reanimator will help black regain a powerful identity, or hurt its ability to contribute to other decks.
Zombie Infestation might be my first add, simply because the card is so versatile. Plus, more Life from the Loam combos are always welcome.
I was thinking the Infestation could serve double duty in a few decks. That may be the way to go. But T1 Imp, T2 Exhume is just nasty.
That is obviously great, but not so much more impressive than turn 2 infestation, EOT pitch two. T3 Exhume/Reanimate/Recurring Nightmare. Plus, that's probably a lot better for decks running ten or less black sources.
That being said, Massacre Wurm is what I consider a "big picture" type of card: its value is dependant not on its color identity but on the Cube's dynamic. In a vacuum, Kokusho might be a better 6-drop in black. But if the Cube support a strong token theme, or if aggro in general is strong, then the Wurm might be a better card to deal with those strategies than Kokusho (or other black 6-drop for that matter - it's not a direct comparison).
Don't mean to backseat mod here, but shouldn't Reanimation support discussion be its own thread?
No, because the question wasn't "how do I support reanimator", it was "this or that" ...which seems to me like it should go in the This or That thread.
@Rantipole: I'd keep in Massacre Wurm and Kokusho of those three.
@wtwlf: Reanimator decks round here are never mono black. I'd sooner put in a bit more support in other colours. Frantic Search is great in blue, as you can dump cards then untap to cast your reanimate spell on turn 3, Thirst for Knowledge is also good, and I have recently added Compulsive Research back in. I think adding some of these cards in a 360 cue would be hard, though.
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Anybody with extensive experience with Huntmaster of the Fells and Sarkhan Vol give me a comparison of the two? I don't run green aggro, if that matters. I find that both cards seem to be difficult to evaluate in theory, and are probably better in practice than on paper. I only have experience with Sarkhan.
I prefer Sarkhan Vol. It's one of the few cubeable Threaten effects which pairs well with some sac outlets, and the haste + pump can be insane on T5 with a few creatures like Deranged Hermit and Siege-Gang Commander. Additionally, he puts out 20 power worth of dragons as an ultimate, which happens pretty fast and pretty often. Huntmaster is good, but it doesn't do anything particularly unique, and he's not better than most of the mono-colored 4-drops that are already available in red and green, unless he happens to flip back and fourth with regularity, which doesn't really happen much. I actually prefer Kessig Wolf Run to both nowadays.
I prefer Sarkhan Vol. It's one of the few cubeable Threaten effects which pairs well with some sac outlets, and the haste + pump can be insane on T5 with a few creatures like Deranged Hermit and Siege-Gang Commander. Additionally, he puts out 20 power worth of dragons as an ultimate, which happens pretty fast and pretty often. Huntmaster is good, but it doesn't do anything particularly unique, and he's not better than most of the mono-colored 4-drops that are already available in red and green, unless he happens to flip back and fourth with regularity, which doesn't really happen much. I actually prefer Kessig Wolf Run to both nowadays.
I don't remember you putting Huntmaster into your cube, or if so then not for very long. If I'm wrong, please correct me?
Stag hasn't been very impressive in cube most of the time, and since I cut Paladin En-Vec for being pretty weak outside of certain matches where he was ridiculously good, it seems like GSS should be in a similar boat. Sage seems like it has a lot of potential for awesome plays and can help simply hardcast the big creatures I've added for Show and Tell/Sneak Attack/Reanimator decks lately. Thoughts?
Also, I think Huntsmaster is unbelievable and right below Bloodbraid Elf (and it's oftentimes a better card) in the Gruul ranking. I think my overall gold card ranking would go something like:
/\ /\ /\ I like the sage more, particularly in a larger cube that's a bit slower and has a lot of good 6+ mana creatures to ramp into it with. I'd even consider it for 450 if you had a big enough ramp theme, and I'd start playing it as a permanent addition at 540/630-ish range. I think the Sage is a sleeper that will prove to be quite good. T4 Elesh Norns, Myr Battlespheres and Hornet Queens are pretty good.
I don't remember you putting Huntmaster into your cube, or if so then not for very long. If I'm wrong, please correct me?
I tested it, but I didn't leave it in as a permanent addition. It failed to impress in a HUGE way, and the competition at the 4cc slot, particularly at 360 is just too good. Even when I was playing RG, I didn't want to cut any of my other 4-drops for it; that should tell you something.
Stag hasn't been very impressive in cube most of the time, and since I cut Paladin En-Vec for being pretty weak outside of certain matches where he was ridiculously good, it seems like GSS should be in a similar boat. Sage seems like it has a lot of potential for awesome plays and can help simply hardcast the big creatures I've added for Show and Tell/Sneak Attack/Reanimator decks lately. Thoughts?
Also, I think Huntsmaster is unbelievable and right below Bloodbraid Elf (and it's oftentimes a better card) in the Gruul ranking. I think my overall gold card ranking would go something like:
That should really put forth how good that card has played out for me in cube.
Great, thanks -- that's all the endorsement I need. I'll swap out the Sarkhan for Huntmaster for a while.
Re: Sage - I think I'm going to make the same swap in my 360. Not only do I dislike protection creatures, I also think the Sage'll probably just be as good against control decks, while also being slightly more vulnerable to red-based aggro decks (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). As you said, the potential for big plays is enticing, and I also think the Sage requires a higher level of strategic play than the Stag, since you have to be more aware of overextending whereas the Stag is just a big dummy you drop whenever against blue or black decks. The value of Sage would be slightly higher if you ran Kodama North or Sigarda.
I prefer Wolf Run of those 3 as well. I haven't played Huntmaster, but since Bloodbraid Elf is obviously better and another 4-drop would be too much, I just don't have room for it. Vol isn't bad at all, but Wolf Run has the pretty huge upside that it doesn't take a spell slot in your deck.
/\ /\ /\ I like the sage more, particularly in a larger cube that's a bit slower and has a lot of good 6+ mana creatures to ramp into it with. I'd even consider it for 450 if you had a big enough ramp theme, and I'd start playing it as a permanent addition at 540/630-ish range. I think the Sage is a sleeper that will prove to be quite good. T4 Elesh Norns, Myr Battlespheres and Hornet Queens are pretty good.
Isn't Devoted Druid be better? It drops a turn earlier and can also power out the insane play a single time.
Isn't Devoted Druid be better? It drops a turn earlier and can also power out the insane play a single time.
Maybe. It powers out 5 and 6-drops better. But if you're heavily supporting a Ramp theme (where these two creatures would give most of their value) wouldn't you want both? In my theoretical 450 upsize, I could see supporting both of these creatures with a strong ramp theme.
Isn't Devoted Druid be better? It drops a turn earlier and can also power out the insane play a single time.
I'll steal a quote from Eidolon's thread that I think is very relevant: "The extra mana isn't only good for powering out a single big beater, but also allows you to play your regular creatures "for free", so that you are protected from soft counters and can use your other mana for something else, like equipments or removal to make sure your creatures get to connect."
I think that's key for most green midrange decks. You're not just trying to vomit out a fatty and then call it quits. Green decks are perfectly happy playing their incredible 5-drops and then using the spare mana for any of the other wonderful broken things you can do in a cube.
Depends on how much fixing you have in your cube already. I really don't think they should be competing for a slot imo. I consider Ravine to be the best R/G dual land after Duals/Shocks/Fetches, but I consider Wolf Run to play more like a gold-card that doesn't take up a spell slot in deck construction.
I'm adding Sage in my next update, since I feel as though it is almost a must-kill as you cannot allow people to start dropping bombs on you on turn 3 or 4. That's good enough to convince me to give it a go.
I like Putrid Imp the most, I think, because it enables T2 reanimation, which is just amazing.
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I certainly am considering them for my 450 powered. I'm currently conflicted on what to do with my black section, as it seems many are. When we Winston/Winchester/Solomon, black is a solid contributor. When we booster or roto, decks are rarely ever black based. Even reanimator decks run it as a subtheme in a blue control or green ramp deck. I can't decide if pushing reanimator will help black regain a powerful identity, or hurt its ability to contribute to other decks.
Zombie Infestation might be my first add, simply because the card is so versatile. Plus, more Life from the Loam combos are always welcome.
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For the most part at least, we are discussing choices between a few cards.
That is obviously great, but not so much more impressive than turn 2 infestation, EOT pitch two. T3 Exhume/Reanimate/Recurring Nightmare. Plus, that's probably a lot better for decks running ten or less black sources.
I'd probably rank them as ExpiredRascals did.
That being said, Massacre Wurm is what I consider a "big picture" type of card: its value is dependant not on its color identity but on the Cube's dynamic. In a vacuum, Kokusho might be a better 6-drop in black. But if the Cube support a strong token theme, or if aggro in general is strong, then the Wurm might be a better card to deal with those strategies than Kokusho (or other black 6-drop for that matter - it's not a direct comparison).
No, because the question wasn't "how do I support reanimator", it was "this or that" ...which seems to me like it should go in the This or That thread.
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@wtwlf: Reanimator decks round here are never mono black. I'd sooner put in a bit more support in other colours. Frantic Search is great in blue, as you can dump cards then untap to cast your reanimate spell on turn 3, Thirst for Knowledge is also good, and I have recently added Compulsive Research back in. I think adding some of these cards in a 360 cue would be hard, though.
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I doubt it. I only run 2 of those 4 in my 360, and I'd be hard pressed to include more than 3 at the very most.
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I don't remember you putting Huntmaster into your cube, or if so then not for very long. If I'm wrong, please correct me?
Bloodbraid Elf>Kird Ape=Huntmaster>Stormbind>Wolf Run>>Sarkhan>>>>>>>>>>>>>Giant Solifuge
Stag hasn't been very impressive in cube most of the time, and since I cut Paladin En-Vec for being pretty weak outside of certain matches where he was ridiculously good, it seems like GSS should be in a similar boat. Sage seems like it has a lot of potential for awesome plays and can help simply hardcast the big creatures I've added for Show and Tell/Sneak Attack/Reanimator decks lately. Thoughts?
Also, I think Huntsmaster is unbelievable and right below Bloodbraid Elf (and it's oftentimes a better card) in the Gruul ranking. I think my overall gold card ranking would go something like:
1. Bloodbraid Elf
2. Ajani Vengeant
3. Huntsmaster of the Fells
That should really put forth how good that card has played out for me in cube.
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I tested it, but I didn't leave it in as a permanent addition. It failed to impress in a HUGE way, and the competition at the 4cc slot, particularly at 360 is just too good. Even when I was playing RG, I didn't want to cut any of my other 4-drops for it; that should tell you something.
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Great, thanks -- that's all the endorsement I need. I'll swap out the Sarkhan for Huntmaster for a while.
Re: Sage - I think I'm going to make the same swap in my 360. Not only do I dislike protection creatures, I also think the Sage'll probably just be as good against control decks, while also being slightly more vulnerable to red-based aggro decks (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). As you said, the potential for big plays is enticing, and I also think the Sage requires a higher level of strategic play than the Stag, since you have to be more aware of overextending whereas the Stag is just a big dummy you drop whenever against blue or black decks. The value of Sage would be slightly higher if you ran Kodama North or Sigarda.
Isn't Devoted Druid be better? It drops a turn earlier and can also power out the insane play a single time.
Maybe. It powers out 5 and 6-drops better. But if you're heavily supporting a Ramp theme (where these two creatures would give most of their value) wouldn't you want both? In my theoretical 450 upsize, I could see supporting both of these creatures with a strong ramp theme.
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I'll steal a quote from Eidolon's thread that I think is very relevant: "The extra mana isn't only good for powering out a single big beater, but also allows you to play your regular creatures "for free", so that you are protected from soft counters and can use your other mana for something else, like equipments or removal to make sure your creatures get to connect."
I think that's key for most green midrange decks. You're not just trying to vomit out a fatty and then call it quits. Green decks are perfectly happy playing their incredible 5-drops and then using the spare mana for any of the other wonderful broken things you can do in a cube.
Depends on how much fixing you have in your cube already. I really don't think they should be competing for a slot imo. I consider Ravine to be the best R/G dual land after Duals/Shocks/Fetches, but I consider Wolf Run to play more like a gold-card that doesn't take up a spell slot in deck construction.
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