Boneshredder is more interesting than Nekrataal. Comes back with Sun Titan, great with Mimic Vat and Volrath's Stronghold, and even is a free sacrifice to Braids/Stax.
I added Fleshbag Marauder to my list. Always love adding new ETB to my cube.
I like Nekrataal a wee bit better, personally. The fact that it leaves a 2/1 first strike body behind is so awesome against aggro.
I'll play Nekrataal over Bone Shredder. I don't think I'm cutting any of them in a bit, though. I'm still running Graveborn Muse, and I expect her to be gone soon.
Well I've addressed that I think Nekrataal is better in a vacuum (esp given that I have not run Bone Shredder in any iteration of my cube), I think that if you're going to run a Pox subtheme then it's probably worthwhile to trade Nekrataal down for Bone Shredder so that you can get other 4-drops in. As a matter of fact, even if you're not running a Pox subtheme I think there are appropriate times to trade Nekrataal down, simply because black's 3-drops are very bad, while it's 4-drops are very good.
2B Creature Destroy target creature
What would that have to be P/T wise to include? I hate the echo on boneshredder, but always wish nekrataal was CMC 3 because orzohv is a common deck and i love sun titan
Could they print that at anything more than a 1/1?
Well they could make it 0/2, 0/3 or 1/2 I guess. :muh:Or put some other disadvantage on it (can't block, remove it from the game if it dies, lose life each upkeep) and make it a bit bigger.
My people are very apprehensive about pox/necro/messenger/ deathcloud saying its to all in.
Multiple people have quoted LSV saying its a trap.
I kind of agree, but I don't think its terribly splashable. I can't see many people picking up your pox. Now, other key parts like bloodghast , gravecrawler, and tanglewire that are all good in multiple archetypes as much higher picks.
I'm going to try it tomorrow and draft it myself to give it a run.
He was talking about mono black. Though all cards are heavy it is not the heavy black he was trapped by as the mono black cards in the MODO cube do not follow a certain strategy. You see Gravecrawler into Damnation and Bloodgift Demon all day. Here you have a strategy in which most cards synergize with each other
Ok that makes me feel a lot better
I love legacy pox an would love to give black a stronger identity in my cube
Is Spawning Pit going too deep into the theme? I'm guessing so, but throwing the idea out there since we have more recursive duders like Gravecrawler, undying guys, Nether Traitor and other such things.
Multiple people have quoted LSV saying its a trap.
In general, I operate under the assumption that a lot of the pros who are cubing right now because of the popularity of cube on MTGO aren't people who have designed a cube. I don't know about you, but I play with some really talented magic players, who don't know a lot about cube design. Designing a set to play is a very different skill than figuring out which cards are the best and playing them.
With that in mind, I take all things generic magic pros say about cube design with a grain of salt.
Just a heads up, I am recording a new episode of Joy of Cubing tonight, and I'll be covering this strategy. If there are any questions, or cards/areas you'd like me to cover, let me know!
Just a heads up, I am recording a new episode of Joy of Cubing tonight, and I'll be covering this strategy. If there are any questions, or cards/areas you'd like me to cover, let me know!
How do you take advantage of Nether Traitor in a typical game? How good are Nether Spirit and Oversold Cemetery, considering they require completely different creature counts in graveyards?
How helpful are four mana token-generators considering they cost, well, four? And on a similar note, how difficult is it to get value from Death Cloud? Those things seem really expensive.
Contamination seems like a very powerful mana denial card, but how hard is it to keep it on the board?
I specifically ask about these cards because I plan on adding some Pox support as well in the near future, but with my Cube list having 150 fewer cards than yours I can't add all the pieces and I think many of the cards mentioned above will not make it.
I've seen other lists include Fleshbag Marauder with their Pox update, what do you think of that card? I actually like the Gatekeeper of Malakir you play instead a lot, if we say we are not afraid to play BBB spells then it is a really good deal. The good thing about Fleshbag Marauder is that it is a zombie and easier to recur (especially with cards like Sun Titan).
Thanks for being the innovative and inspiring Cube community member that you are. I am always interested when you champion a new archetype!
Just a heads up, I am recording a new episode of Joy of Cubing tonight, and I'll be covering this strategy. If there are any questions, or cards/areas you'd like me to cover, let me know!
Given that the archetype may be weaker in a smaller draft format (winston, sealed, 4-mans), would you still push the archetype, and if so, in what order would you add in the cards?
If you were running a very small list, e.g. 360, what "staples" or auto-includes would you be willing to remove in order to run this archetype?
At what level of support do you think that the strategy has become too all-in; i.e. it weakens the other theaters of Black too much?
I've seen other lists include Fleshbag Marauder with their Pox update, what do you think of that card? I actually like the Gatekeeper of Malakir you play instead a lot, if we say we are not afraid to play BBB spells then it is a really good deal. The good thing about Fleshbag Marauder is that it is a zombie and easier to recur (especially with cards like Sun Titan).
FWIW, I play Gatekeeper all the time in non-mono black decks (usually B/X guys) and think it's a stellar card - a good member of the ETB destroy duder class of creatures, obviously not as good as something like Shriekmaw, but I'd probably rank it closely to Nekrataal and I think it's better than Fleshbag. Like with Geralf's Messenger, you should to have decent fixing to play it relatively early, but IMO, you should be doing that anyway, especially in aggro decks that look like they have awkward costs together like Carnophage into Ash Zealot, etc.
Fleshbag Marauder has been pretty sweet for us so far. Being able to sac itself has value with a few cards (Mimic Vat, Sun Titan, Stronghold/Genesis) and it's a Zombie, so it can recur your Gravecrawler for you. I like Gatekeeper also, but I prefer Fleshbag.
I don't know how seriously you are considering Marsh Flitter for inclusion, but if you are, maybe Sengir Autocrat gets the nod as well?
The problem is that the Autocrat removes all the tokens when he dies. So if you're planning on using those tokens for something like Pox or a Smokestack payment, and the Autocrat gets Bolted, you lose all 4 guys.
I considered him, but ultimately went with something else because of that.
Just a heads up, I am recording a new episode of Joy of Cubing tonight, and I'll be covering this strategy. If there are any questions, or cards/areas you'd like me to cover, let me know!
I'd come on to this thread to ask if there is a good primer for this archetype (which I'm struggling to understand), and the answer is: there will be!
As well as the good questions above, can you comment on how to draft, build and play this archetype, as well as how you support it in cube design. Also, is it possible to have a pox lite archetype, or do you need to go all in.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Is Spawning Pit going too deep into the theme? I'm guessing so, but throwing the idea out there since we have more recursive duders like Gravecrawler, undying guys, Nether Traitor and other such things.
I was watching Kojiro's stream of Andy Cooperfauss' cube this week, and he uses Blasting Station. Sacrifice outlets seem really good for this kind of deck, and not needing mana to activate feels important. This "tech" was run by Raphael Levy in his Modern Zombies deck as well, for the same reason.
I was watching Kojiro's stream of Andy Cooperfauss' cube this week, and he uses Blasting Station. Sacrifice outlets seem really good for this kind of deck, and not needing mana to activate feels important. This "tech" was run by Raphael Levy in his Modern Zombies deck as well, for the same reason.
If you are not restricted to modern card face, Goblin Bombardment is probably better even if it is not colorless. You can activate it as many times as you want without having creatures enter the battlefield.
So far, they've been the two worst ones I've tested. The Spirit is already on the bench (it would be a lot better if I had more Smokestack effects or ran The Abyss/Magus of the Abyss/Contamination). But the Traitor is doing solid. He's much easier to recur.
I like Nekrataal a wee bit better, personally. The fact that it leaves a 2/1 first strike body behind is so awesome against aggro.
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What would that have to be P/T wise to include? I hate the echo on boneshredder, but always wish nekrataal was CMC 3 because orzohv is a common deck and i love sun titan
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
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https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
It having Echo is almost an advantage. That way it is easier to reanimate.
Also with Braids, Smallpox, Pox and Smokestack reanimation is not the only way to ignore the echo.
Well they could make it 0/2, 0/3 or 1/2 I guess. :muh:Or put some other disadvantage on it (can't block, remove it from the game if it dies, lose life each upkeep) and make it a bit bigger.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Multiple people have quoted LSV saying its a trap.
I kind of agree, but I don't think its terribly splashable. I can't see many people picking up your pox. Now, other key parts like bloodghast , gravecrawler, and tanglewire that are all good in multiple archetypes as much higher picks.
I'm going to try it tomorrow and draft it myself to give it a run.
Ok that makes me feel a lot better
I love legacy pox an would love to give black a stronger identity in my cube
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
For your question though, it depends on what you define cube to be either "the best custom draft set" or "the best draftable cards in Magic".
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In general, I operate under the assumption that a lot of the pros who are cubing right now because of the popularity of cube on MTGO aren't people who have designed a cube. I don't know about you, but I play with some really talented magic players, who don't know a lot about cube design. Designing a set to play is a very different skill than figuring out which cards are the best and playing them.
With that in mind, I take all things generic magic pros say about cube design with a grain of salt.
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Joy of Cubing Podcast
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How do you take advantage of Nether Traitor in a typical game? How good are Nether Spirit and Oversold Cemetery, considering they require completely different creature counts in graveyards?
How helpful are four mana token-generators considering they cost, well, four? And on a similar note, how difficult is it to get value from Death Cloud? Those things seem really expensive.
Contamination seems like a very powerful mana denial card, but how hard is it to keep it on the board?
I specifically ask about these cards because I plan on adding some Pox support as well in the near future, but with my Cube list having 150 fewer cards than yours I can't add all the pieces and I think many of the cards mentioned above will not make it.
I've seen other lists include Fleshbag Marauder with their Pox update, what do you think of that card? I actually like the Gatekeeper of Malakir you play instead a lot, if we say we are not afraid to play BBB spells then it is a really good deal. The good thing about Fleshbag Marauder is that it is a zombie and easier to recur (especially with cards like Sun Titan).
Thanks for being the innovative and inspiring Cube community member that you are. I am always interested when you champion a new archetype!
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Given that the archetype may be weaker in a smaller draft format (winston, sealed, 4-mans), would you still push the archetype, and if so, in what order would you add in the cards?
If you were running a very small list, e.g. 360, what "staples" or auto-includes would you be willing to remove in order to run this archetype?
At what level of support do you think that the strategy has become too all-in; i.e. it weakens the other theaters of Black too much?
FWIW, I play Gatekeeper all the time in non-mono black decks (usually B/X guys) and think it's a stellar card - a good member of the ETB destroy duder class of creatures, obviously not as good as something like Shriekmaw, but I'd probably rank it closely to Nekrataal and I think it's better than Fleshbag. Like with Geralf's Messenger, you should to have decent fixing to play it relatively early, but IMO, you should be doing that anyway, especially in aggro decks that look like they have awkward costs together like Carnophage into Ash Zealot, etc.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
The problem is that the Autocrat removes all the tokens when he dies. So if you're planning on using those tokens for something like Pox or a Smokestack payment, and the Autocrat gets Bolted, you lose all 4 guys.
I considered him, but ultimately went with something else because of that.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I'd come on to this thread to ask if there is a good primer for this archetype (which I'm struggling to understand), and the answer is: there will be!
As well as the good questions above, can you comment on how to draft, build and play this archetype, as well as how you support it in cube design. Also, is it possible to have a pox lite archetype, or do you need to go all in.
Looking forward to the 'cast!
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I was watching Kojiro's stream of Andy Cooperfauss' cube this week, and he uses Blasting Station. Sacrifice outlets seem really good for this kind of deck, and not needing mana to activate feels important. This "tech" was run by Raphael Levy in his Modern Zombies deck as well, for the same reason.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!