When I was playing multiplayer EDH (which is long ago since multiplayer EDH is a format I really dislike), we were always targeting these with the nice Rites of Flourishing and Howling Mine first. There is no reason one would run these cards, except as a way to combo off at some point.
To me these also fail at politics, because it is quite obvious that they read "Hey look I'm being nice to you, please kill someone else until I can backstab you without any remorse"
This is basically how I feel. Real warning bells go off when you see Temple Bell in a blue deck, as if they can ever connect it with Mind over Matter, you're in for a world of hurt.
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This is basically how I feel. Real warning bells go off when you see Temple Bell in a blue deck, as if they can ever connect it with Mind over Matter, you're in for a world of hurt.
Same with Mana Flare in a red deck for me. You know something red with an X in the casting cost is not far behind.
One for you guys (because I know the 1vs1 guys will just run both of these).
Terminate vs. Dreadbore?
I've run Terminate for ever, but pulled another Dreadbore over the weekend. You wouldn't want to duplicate this type of card in RB (well, not for Multiplayer, anyway), so which would you choose? Terminate is faster, Dreadbore nixes 'Walkers.
In our EDH cube anyway, Planeswalkers don't really perform all that well. There are too many combat phases for it to survive through in order to get your second activation. I personally would go with Terminate for that reason since the chances of a Planeswalker dominating a game without it is so slim.
I replaced Terminate with Dreadbore in my Mplayer Cube just because red and black are already so good at killing creatures. A straight 'kill target planeswalker' option is rare, suits the colours and is becoming more and more relevant with every new set release.
One for you guys (because I know the 1vs1 guys will just run both of these).
Terminate vs. Dreadbore?
I've run Terminate for ever, but pulled another Dreadbore over the weekend. You wouldn't want to duplicate this type of card in RB (well, not for Multiplayer, anyway), so which would you choose? Terminate is faster, Dreadbore nixes 'Walkers.
In our EDH cube anyway, Planeswalkers don't really perform all that well. There are too many combat phases for it to survive through in order to get your second activation. I personally would go with Terminate for that reason since the chances of a Planeswalker dominating a game without it is so slim.
I don't think that Walkers are particularly good in multiplayer games. This is probably because I've never seen one take a game over. I also see them hit play, activate once, and eat hits from evasive beaters until they fall. I think that we've seen one Koth emblem in the past year or so and beyond that none of them have even come close to ulting. Some of the weaker ones like Ajani can stick around for a turn or two but eventually someone gets tired and axes it with fliers or something. To give you an idea, JTMS routines goes 13th pick in or sessions and is almost never played because no one wants a 4 mana Sorcery speed Brainstorm. Since that's all he's ever done in our games, there's just no reason to play him. I would remove him but he's not in one of my Cubes.
If you are likely to be hit by 2-3 creatures from every player, then yeah, the only card that would be good is probably a rattlesnake kind of card like No Mercy. Good job describing the only situation in which No Mercy is the best deterrent. You should probably be running more wraths.
The situation that I'm describing is one where people play good creatures. If you're going to allot a deckslot to a card that has defensive applications then, in my mind, it should be something that effectively dissuades attackers. Icy Manipulator, on its own, doesn't accomplish that. People will free critters can swing at you for free unless you decide to tap their creature beforehand. You take on all the risk and the reward payout isn't very high.
I'm really not sure what you are trying to argue with either of these comments. What do you imagine my group is like that they would just play bad magic as you've described here? You are absolutely right, the biggest threat on the table isn't my only concern. I pray I have more to do than try to hide behind an Icy Manipulator too. I pray the same is true if I'm trying to hide behind a No Mercy as well.
Of course. The difference, in my mind, is how the cards function as standalone spells. If your defensive plan is Icy and X and X gets removed then Icy isn't very good. If my defensive plan is No Mercy and X then my defensive plan is still decent even if X gets axed. Attacking me is still going to cost you your creatures so it's far from free.
I certainly hope that isn't what I said, and I certainly hope that isn't how your players play.
It more-or-less is. You were implying that their silence was a planned, legitimate tactic. Often times they're silent because they're texting, on their laptop, watching TV, etc. That's what happens in big 8 player games.
True story. What do you think of getting hit for 12?
Again, all the options suck. I'm not saying that defense is irrelevant as you seem to be implying. I'm saying that you need something that keeps the 12/12, the 7/7 and the 5/5 in its place.
Sweet, then the person who has the most dominating board position could only be the person who overextended. I really wish you would say something that didn't assume I was a complete idiot at magic.
I'm not talking about you at all. I'm saying that dominant board positions just plain don't occur frequently in a multiplayer setting. If you have way more than everyone else you're probably just going to eat a Wrath and lose. I rarely see an instance where someone has a firm lock on the game unless it's using some Prison combo. Everyone is typically relatively equal because trying to push too far ahead can backfire extremely hard.
'Kay, then I'll just remove your No Mercy, and swing for full power because your No Mercy can't tap down a threat. "Dies to removal" has never been a great argument.
What? You said that tappers survive past removal. I was clarifying that they don't. While they do survive creature-focused removal, strong multiplayer Cubes should have a fair amount of ways to handle troublesome non-creature permanents. I'm not using it as an argument against tappers. I'm saying that no card is nearly as durable as you're making it sound to be.
What does Syphon Mind have to do with tapping creatures, or Mortavore for that matter. I'm still of the opinion that it holds value in the early game. I just wanted to point out that it gets better and better the closer you get to winning. So no, not saying play bad cards. Saying play good cards that get better, a nice contrast to those that are good and get worse.
The problem with your assessment is that it doesn't reflect the varying degrees of good and bad. Syphon Mind isn't just good in an 8 player game. It's basically broken. Casting 1 on turn 4 is a draw 7 for 4 that also forces 7 discards. Calling that "good" and calling a tapper "good" doesn't do it justice. Scaling cards can be amazing if-not overpowered in a multiplayer context and they're the kinds of cards that can allow you to consistently do well in a game in my experience. While they do get worse as the number of players decreases, that's typically perfectly acceptable in my mind given how powerful they are for the vast majority of the game. Going back to tappers, I don't think that the comparison is close. First of all, tappers are not that good in a duel setting. You don't see people flocking to put them in their duel Cubes and you don't see them being snatched up when you watch MODO streams. You're not going to find them in most competitive decks either. Tappers are marginal creatures that tend to be playable in Limited where your removal options are scarce. I don't personally find them to be powerful cards in big 8 player FFA games because there's always far too many relevant threats on the table and people tend to attack whoever is open. What this means, to me, is that they don't have much value early or late. Like, I could easily be missing something, but since when are tappers good cards in duels? I can't possibly follow the overall flow of the entire casual magic scene, but like, do the "informed" players really like tappers in 1v1 settings? Are people playing them in their EDH decks? I just don't understand where this "tappers are good in duels" mindset is coming from. I certainly don't understand why people think they're good in multiplayer, but even if we ignore that, since when are tappers "go-tos" in duels? I'm legitimate asking here btw. I'm just struggling to comprehend why tappers are suddenly considered to be powerful, desirable cards in a 1v1 EDH/Multiplayer Cube setting. Again, a big part of your argument is that they're "good cards that become better." I just don't see it. I don't get why tappers are suddenly great duel cards.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I will try to state my argument as clearly and completely as possible in an attempt to better answer the question at hand: Why are tap effects worth playing in a multiplayer cube?
Cube is limited. Limited is all about having the right responses at the right time. The tap artifacts, Icy Manipulator/Ring of Gix, are colorless answers to a variety of problem permanents and board states. For this reason, most duel cubes run at least one of these two cards at the 360-450 level. That same principle applies to multiplayer cubing. It is still limited. It is still about having the right responses.
What's more, is that while it's nice to have an answer to a problem, in long games it's nice to have an answer to the next problem too. The ability for these artifacts to survive creature-based, mass removal gives them useful longevity.
They are useful outside of keeping something from attacking you. They handle some problem lands (Maze of Ith), they neuter some problem artifacts or limit their shenanigans (Mimic Vat/Sensei's Divining Top), they can negate blockers, they can better negate threats in a recursion deck, and they can negate threats that gain value off dealing combat damage (anything with a sword of x and y equipped). I'm sure there are other uses that I'm missing.
Cons: They aren't necessarily what you want to play on turn 4-5 in a really big Free-for-All game. This can be said about a number of good cards. This does not completely negate their usefulness.
They don't necessarily deter attacks aimed at you. They don't, but they do act as controllable removal that deals with the threat you want dealt with most at any critical moment.
They can piss a player off and have them aim their aggression at you. This is true as well, but decisions like that are ones you will have to make plenty in multiplayer games. Besides, if they're already aiming their aggression at you, then it really doesn't matter.
I've been plumbing the depths of magic's card pool to find more and more interesting cards that may have been overlooked for multiplayer cubes. Does anyone have their eye on any cool artifacts/colorless cards that haven't really hit the radar before?
I've been plumbing the depths of magic's card pool to find more and more interesting cards that may have been overlooked for multiplayer cubes. Does anyone have their eye on any cool artifacts/colorless cards that haven't really hit the radar before?
This at the very least made me trawl back through my old Guide to Multiplayer Artifice (that I really need to update).
Psychosis Crawler strikes me as a logical candidate. Could produce a fair bit of pain next to the right cards.
This at the very least made me trawl back through my old Guide to Multiplayer Artifice (that I really need to update).
Psychosis Crawler strikes me as a logical candidate. Could produce a fair bit of pain next to the right cards.
There've been a couple blue burn threads this past year, and I remember one suggesting the crawler + the usually awful time reversal as a cool finisher. Crawler would also be great with the wheel cards that lots of cube already run. Nice catch.
Yeah, Crawler looks like it would be a good additional piece for EDH Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind decks to still make use of the Wheel/Spiral cards in Niv's absence, or even alongside Niv. That's interesting.
I was looking at Moonsilver Spear. I'm not sure about regular multiplayer, but in our edh games hitting at least eight mana is the norm, so a cast-equip, get a 4/4 and give my dude evasion and first strike play isn't unreasonable. Seems like it could easily take over a game. Do you guys think it's worth the initial investment though?
I was looking at Moonsilver Spear. I'm not sure about regular multiplayer, but in our edh games hitting at least eight mana is the norm, so a cast-equip, get a 4/4 and give my dude evasion and first strike play isn't unreasonable. Seems like it could easily take over a game. Do you guys think it's worth the initial investment though?
One of the guys in my group delights in running this next to Parallel Lives. That takes over a game really quickly... make an angel somehow, anyhow. Stick the Spear on one of those, throw an Angel under the bus, get at least two more, rinse, repeat.
I've currently got a playset on the way to test it out myself.
One of the guys in my group delights in running this next to Parallel Lives. That takes over a game really quickly... make an angel somehow, anyhow. Stick the Spear on one of those, throw an Angel under the bus, get at least two more, rinse, repeat.
I've currently got a playset on the way to test it out myself.
That's not something I though of. We run Doubling Season in our cube, which is card that doesn't look like it will do a whole lot on the surface, but ends up doing amazing things every time it sees play. Let me know how the equipment works out for you. It may be a bit before I can fit it into my cube for testing.
It'd be a cute little cycle to have in if your cube leans towards gold and/or tribal (seeing as some of the Lieges have some pretty relevant creature types). But are they all playable enough to include the whole ten?
Balefire, Deathbringer and Creakwood in particular are awesome, and would probably make most lists that have a strong gold component.
But some others stand out as just not being powerful enough (e.g. Mindwrack, who doesn't come online until you've got the mana to cast most things anyway.... is it only good for dropping Turn 7 Progenitus?).
Thoughts?
Mindrack Liege actually seems pretty sweet. Being able to flash your dudes in at instant speed in a multiplayer game is amazing especially for only 4 mana if your multiplayer cube runs the big mega-fatties that our EDH cube runs.
I think the lieges that have only french vanilla abilities are the worst, and Ashenmoor Liege being the worst of the more complex lieges since mass removal is more common/used than targeted removal in multiplayer.
The pump effect will be nice, but I like when my creatures can provide some value on their own.
Murkfiend Liege could be good, as the untap ability scales with multiple opponents. It also gives pseudo-vigilance which allows you to use creatures both to attack/use abilities and defend. I'd still rather have Seedborn Muse though.
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Creakwood Liege is the only one I'd consider, and my BG section is too tight for it to make the cut. Token gen + anthem in a tight package is pretty powerful, especially when it means the tokens come out 3/3's.
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Does anybody have an opinion about using deathrite shaman in their multiplayer/edh cubes? I've got enough flexibility in my golgari section that I've been considering running him as an additional piece of mana acceleration + grave hate.
Thanks!
EDIT: Tacking on another card-opinion query... This thread is drawing down The Eye of Sauron on my proxied copy of V. Clique. I've been saving store credit until a real one shows up at my FLGS, but the discussion is tempting me to just cut them from my edh cube in favor of a more mundane counter spell or other blue utility card. How useful have folks been finding them in their multiplayer sessions? As the linked thread states, are they worth the price tag for a multiplayer format?
Does anybody have an opinion about using deathrite shaman in their multiplayer/edh cubes? I've got enough flexibility in my golgari section that I've been considering running him as an additional piece of mana acceleration + grave hate.
I'd run it like a shot. I've seen a little of DRS so far, and I'm falling hard - it's a very versatile card with a relevant creature type and Pigeon-style abilities (i.e. they get better when there are more players in the game). I suspect the more I play with it, the more I'm going to want a cube copy (my sole copy is currently earning its keep in my wife's Jarad EDH deck right now).
Which brings me to my current quandary (which one or two of you have run into in the This or That Discussion Thread already). What are you guys running in your Golgari slots right now?
I am currently using Golgari Charm, Korozda Guildmage, Vulturous Zombie, Gleancrawler and Nath of the Gilt-Leaf.
And in the last couple of weeks, I've traded for Glissa, the Traitor, had Lord of Extinction fall out of a deck, and been handed Izzet vs. Golgari for Christmas (which has copies of Jarard, Golgari Lich-Lord and Doomgape that are also worthy of making it).
Glissa and Vulturous should be certainties.
I'm leaning towards Doomgape / Charm / Guildmage for the remaining three slots. Doomgape has a relevant creature type for my cube, and I suspect Jarad has too nasty a casting cost, Lord of Extinction is not evasive enough, and Nath and Gleancrawler are falling off the power level.
Sigh... too many good cards... what a terrible position to be in...
EDIT: Tacking on another card-opinion query... This thread is drawing down The Eye of Sauron on my proxied copy of V. Clique. I've been saving store credit until a real one shows up at my FLGS, but the discussion is tempting me to just cut them from my edh cube in favor of a more mundane counter spell or other blue utility card. How useful have folks been finding them in their multiplayer sessions? As the linked thread states, are they worth the price tag for a multiplayer format?
Depends on how much your playgroup is into horrible recursive game-breaking combos, I think. Are Stasis and Limited Resources in? If they are, go for it.
Otherwise, if your guys aren't going to search for ways of continually bouncing and replaying the Clique for general shenanigans, it's going to essentially become a blue Smother with added benefits.
Clique definitely isn't the same card in multiplayer as it is in 1v1, but it is still a good card. Our group loves value-town.dec, so the etb effect being abused happens quite regularly. But it can be useful outside of that too. Smoothing out your hand in the early game is hardly a bad thing, putting something you know you aren't going to use any time soon back into your deck for something you might be able to use now, kind of a psuedo-partial-paris. And once you're squared off with someone, taking a peek at their hand and getting rid of the things you know will wreck you is also not a bad thing. Not a game-breaking card all on its own, but definitely still a good card.
Deathrite Shaman seems interesting though. I think it deserves some testing at least.
Don't have copies, basically. But certainly, they are in the top five, and should be in long-term.
I had a fair chunk of my playgroup over last night, and they voted in the following five: Glissa, Jarad, Vulturous Zombie, Doomgape and Putrefy (a tenth option that skipped my brain in my first post... there are copies in DD:IvG). Interesting mix. There was a fair argument between Lord of Extinction and Vulturous Zombie - the Zombie is smaller, but is more evasive, so it won the day. I'll be interested to see how castable Jarad is (but boy, he'll be a wrecking ball if he makes the table).
(... and yeah, Theogeny, it's going to be pretty easy to justify swapping out Putrefy for Maelstrom Pulse when I lay hands on one!)
This is basically how I feel. Real warning bells go off when you see Temple Bell in a blue deck, as if they can ever connect it with Mind over Matter, you're in for a world of hurt.
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Same with Mana Flare in a red deck for me. You know something red with an X in the casting cost is not far behind.
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Hah. I would never even consider running Flare in a red deck. Besides the fact that you're liable to have someone else combo out and win before you can even untap to abuse it, Red has a ton of doublers at its disposal - besides the standard Gauntlet of Power, Caged Sun, Extraplanar Lens, Doubling Cube, it's also got Koth of the Hammer and Gauntlet of Might.
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Terminate vs. Dreadbore?
I've run Terminate for ever, but pulled another Dreadbore over the weekend. You wouldn't want to duplicate this type of card in RB (well, not for Multiplayer, anyway), so which would you choose? Terminate is faster, Dreadbore nixes 'Walkers.
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I'd use Terminate if anything and this is why:
I don't think that Walkers are particularly good in multiplayer games. This is probably because I've never seen one take a game over. I also see them hit play, activate once, and eat hits from evasive beaters until they fall. I think that we've seen one Koth emblem in the past year or so and beyond that none of them have even come close to ulting. Some of the weaker ones like Ajani can stick around for a turn or two but eventually someone gets tired and axes it with fliers or something. To give you an idea, JTMS routines goes 13th pick in or sessions and is almost never played because no one wants a 4 mana Sorcery speed Brainstorm. Since that's all he's ever done in our games, there's just no reason to play him. I would remove him but he's not in one of my Cubes.
The situation that I'm describing is one where people play good creatures. If you're going to allot a deckslot to a card that has defensive applications then, in my mind, it should be something that effectively dissuades attackers. Icy Manipulator, on its own, doesn't accomplish that. People will free critters can swing at you for free unless you decide to tap their creature beforehand. You take on all the risk and the reward payout isn't very high.
Of course. The difference, in my mind, is how the cards function as standalone spells. If your defensive plan is Icy and X and X gets removed then Icy isn't very good. If my defensive plan is No Mercy and X then my defensive plan is still decent even if X gets axed. Attacking me is still going to cost you your creatures so it's far from free.
It more-or-less is. You were implying that their silence was a planned, legitimate tactic. Often times they're silent because they're texting, on their laptop, watching TV, etc. That's what happens in big 8 player games.
Again, all the options suck. I'm not saying that defense is irrelevant as you seem to be implying. I'm saying that you need something that keeps the 12/12, the 7/7 and the 5/5 in its place.
I'm not talking about you at all. I'm saying that dominant board positions just plain don't occur frequently in a multiplayer setting. If you have way more than everyone else you're probably just going to eat a Wrath and lose. I rarely see an instance where someone has a firm lock on the game unless it's using some Prison combo. Everyone is typically relatively equal because trying to push too far ahead can backfire extremely hard.
How am I supposed to interpret: "I'm fighting one or two other players, maybe trying to manage another player..." then?
What? You said that tappers survive past removal. I was clarifying that they don't. While they do survive creature-focused removal, strong multiplayer Cubes should have a fair amount of ways to handle troublesome non-creature permanents. I'm not using it as an argument against tappers. I'm saying that no card is nearly as durable as you're making it sound to be.
The problem with your assessment is that it doesn't reflect the varying degrees of good and bad. Syphon Mind isn't just good in an 8 player game. It's basically broken. Casting 1 on turn 4 is a draw 7 for 4 that also forces 7 discards. Calling that "good" and calling a tapper "good" doesn't do it justice. Scaling cards can be amazing if-not overpowered in a multiplayer context and they're the kinds of cards that can allow you to consistently do well in a game in my experience. While they do get worse as the number of players decreases, that's typically perfectly acceptable in my mind given how powerful they are for the vast majority of the game. Going back to tappers, I don't think that the comparison is close. First of all, tappers are not that good in a duel setting. You don't see people flocking to put them in their duel Cubes and you don't see them being snatched up when you watch MODO streams. You're not going to find them in most competitive decks either. Tappers are marginal creatures that tend to be playable in Limited where your removal options are scarce. I don't personally find them to be powerful cards in big 8 player FFA games because there's always far too many relevant threats on the table and people tend to attack whoever is open. What this means, to me, is that they don't have much value early or late. Like, I could easily be missing something, but since when are tappers good cards in duels? I can't possibly follow the overall flow of the entire casual magic scene, but like, do the "informed" players really like tappers in 1v1 settings? Are people playing them in their EDH decks? I just don't understand where this "tappers are good in duels" mindset is coming from. I certainly don't understand why people think they're good in multiplayer, but even if we ignore that, since when are tappers "go-tos" in duels? I'm legitimate asking here btw. I'm just struggling to comprehend why tappers are suddenly considered to be powerful, desirable cards in a 1v1 EDH/Multiplayer Cube setting. Again, a big part of your argument is that they're "good cards that become better." I just don't see it. I don't get why tappers are suddenly great duel cards.
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Re: Tap effects
I will try to state my argument as clearly and completely as possible in an attempt to better answer the question at hand: Why are tap effects worth playing in a multiplayer cube?
Cube is limited. Limited is all about having the right responses at the right time. The tap artifacts, Icy Manipulator/Ring of Gix, are colorless answers to a variety of problem permanents and board states. For this reason, most duel cubes run at least one of these two cards at the 360-450 level. That same principle applies to multiplayer cubing. It is still limited. It is still about having the right responses.
What's more, is that while it's nice to have an answer to a problem, in long games it's nice to have an answer to the next problem too. The ability for these artifacts to survive creature-based, mass removal gives them useful longevity.
They are useful outside of keeping something from attacking you. They handle some problem lands (Maze of Ith), they neuter some problem artifacts or limit their shenanigans (Mimic Vat/Sensei's Divining Top), they can negate blockers, they can better negate threats in a recursion deck, and they can negate threats that gain value off dealing combat damage (anything with a sword of x and y equipped). I'm sure there are other uses that I'm missing.
Cons: They aren't necessarily what you want to play on turn 4-5 in a really big Free-for-All game. This can be said about a number of good cards. This does not completely negate their usefulness.
They don't necessarily deter attacks aimed at you. They don't, but they do act as controllable removal that deals with the threat you want dealt with most at any critical moment.
They can piss a player off and have them aim their aggression at you. This is true as well, but decisions like that are ones you will have to make plenty in multiplayer games. Besides, if they're already aiming their aggression at you, then it really doesn't matter.
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This at the very least made me trawl back through my old Guide to Multiplayer Artifice (that I really need to update).
Psychosis Crawler strikes me as a logical candidate. Could produce a fair bit of pain next to the right cards.
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There've been a couple blue burn threads this past year, and I remember one suggesting the crawler + the usually awful time reversal as a cool finisher. Crawler would also be great with the wheel cards that lots of cube already run. Nice catch.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I was looking at Moonsilver Spear. I'm not sure about regular multiplayer, but in our edh games hitting at least eight mana is the norm, so a cast-equip, get a 4/4 and give my dude evasion and first strike play isn't unreasonable. Seems like it could easily take over a game. Do you guys think it's worth the initial investment though?
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One of the guys in my group delights in running this next to Parallel Lives. That takes over a game really quickly... make an angel somehow, anyhow. Stick the Spear on one of those, throw an Angel under the bus, get at least two more, rinse, repeat.
I've currently got a playset on the way to test it out myself.
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That's not something I though of. We run Doubling Season in our cube, which is card that doesn't look like it will do a whole lot on the surface, but ends up doing amazing things every time it sees play. Let me know how the equipment works out for you. It may be a bit before I can fit it into my cube for testing.
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Ashenmoor Liege
Balefire Liege
Boartusk Liege
Creakwood Liege
Deathbringer Liege
Glen Elendra Liege
Mindwrack Liege
Murkfiend Liege
Thistledown Liege
Wilt-Leaf Liege
It'd be a cute little cycle to have in if your cube leans towards gold and/or tribal (seeing as some of the Lieges have some pretty relevant creature types). But are they all playable enough to include the whole ten?
Balefire, Deathbringer and Creakwood in particular are awesome, and would probably make most lists that have a strong gold component.
But some others stand out as just not being powerful enough (e.g. Mindwrack, who doesn't come online until you've got the mana to cast most things anyway.... is it only good for dropping Turn 7 Progenitus?).
Thoughts?
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I think the lieges that have only french vanilla abilities are the worst, and Ashenmoor Liege being the worst of the more complex lieges since mass removal is more common/used than targeted removal in multiplayer.
The pump effect will be nice, but I like when my creatures can provide some value on their own.
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"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
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EDIT: Tacking on another card-opinion query... This thread is drawing down The Eye of Sauron on my proxied copy of V. Clique. I've been saving store credit until a real one shows up at my FLGS, but the discussion is tempting me to just cut them from my edh cube in favor of a more mundane counter spell or other blue utility card. How useful have folks been finding them in their multiplayer sessions? As the linked thread states, are they worth the price tag for a multiplayer format?
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I'd run it like a shot. I've seen a little of DRS so far, and I'm falling hard - it's a very versatile card with a relevant creature type and Pigeon-style abilities (i.e. they get better when there are more players in the game). I suspect the more I play with it, the more I'm going to want a cube copy (my sole copy is currently earning its keep in my wife's Jarad EDH deck right now).
Which brings me to my current quandary (which one or two of you have run into in the This or That Discussion Thread already). What are you guys running in your Golgari slots right now?
I am currently using Golgari Charm, Korozda Guildmage, Vulturous Zombie, Gleancrawler and Nath of the Gilt-Leaf.
And in the last couple of weeks, I've traded for Glissa, the Traitor, had Lord of Extinction fall out of a deck, and been handed Izzet vs. Golgari for Christmas (which has copies of Jarard, Golgari Lich-Lord and Doomgape that are also worthy of making it).
Glissa and Vulturous should be certainties.
I'm leaning towards Doomgape / Charm / Guildmage for the remaining three slots. Doomgape has a relevant creature type for my cube, and I suspect Jarad has too nasty a casting cost, Lord of Extinction is not evasive enough, and Nath and Gleancrawler are falling off the power level.
Sigh... too many good cards... what a terrible position to be in...
Depends on how much your playgroup is into horrible recursive game-breaking combos, I think. Are Stasis and Limited Resources in? If they are, go for it.
Otherwise, if your guys aren't going to search for ways of continually bouncing and replaying the Clique for general shenanigans, it's going to essentially become a blue Smother with added benefits.
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Deathrite Shaman seems interesting though. I think it deserves some testing at least.
@Cadaverous: I'm surprised you're not running Maelstrom Pulse or Pernicious Deed.
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Don't have copies, basically. But certainly, they are in the top five, and should be in long-term.
I had a fair chunk of my playgroup over last night, and they voted in the following five: Glissa, Jarad, Vulturous Zombie, Doomgape and Putrefy (a tenth option that skipped my brain in my first post... there are copies in DD:IvG). Interesting mix. There was a fair argument between Lord of Extinction and Vulturous Zombie - the Zombie is smaller, but is more evasive, so it won the day. I'll be interested to see how castable Jarad is (but boy, he'll be a wrecking ball if he makes the table).
(... and yeah, Theogeny, it's going to be pretty easy to justify swapping out Putrefy for Maelstrom Pulse when I lay hands on one!)
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor