Even when not playing U/B as a 50:50 blend, we regularly splash blue in B/X/u aggro decks for the silly, broken stuff that every deck wants. Grixis aggro is an awesome fit for this sort of card, and I'm happy to play it - I'll probably grab one if I move up to 360.
I feel like the seer is certainly worth a spin. I don't really have artifact.dec rocking in my cube and dimir needs some excitement. This card is exciting if nothing else.
One thing that having mindshrieker in my cube has shown is that unwary opponents often have some huge things lurking in their deck. Now as far as what the deck will look like, I have two cards so far. Finkel, blue tempo cards, black aggro. It might work.
Dissappointed with the Gruul beast. I feel like they were close to something. A giant flametounge Kavu would have been cool. It need to cost 1 less and/or have haste/trample/bloodrush etc.. It does say opponents creature which keeps if from being a drawback(unless they have 1 huge monster out but I don't see that).
The simic card is fun but liekly too unreliable. I prefer chaos warp. At least that is removal.
Did they need to make the new ball lightning terrible. RRW would have been a gross enough casting cost without adding 1 more for lifelink. It could at least had Battalion Trample, I would have loved a Battalion double strike but I don't think we are getting that.
The Double Confidant is certainly interesting. If you play UB tempo (which we do) it should certainly be worth some consideration. I don't know if I like it more than the Charm yet, but if it tests out better (I'll be testing it today) we might play it instead.
The double confidant is really hard to evaluate. I like him, but I'm not sure he's better than Strix, Tezz, Dr. Teeth, or Finkel. Still, he's a 4/4 flier for 4, which is good for passing the vanilla test, and then he draws you into gas and does damage to your opponent. There's a lot of room for upside here.
There's also a lot of room for your opponent to draw a lot of cards. I do appreciate that the design has you both drawing on your upkeep instead of everyone drawing on their own upkeep, because that would've made it instantly unplayable.
He's also a great sideboard card. Don't play against aggro, side in against control. You'll out-damage them, and the body will be more valuable. But you don't want to be fueling a deck with a lower cmc than yours with extra cards.
I don't disagree, but if that's his only use I definitely don't want him. Cards that look like maindeck cards but are secretly sideboard-only cards aren't something I want in my cube.
In blue and black if his ability is ever too much of a liability, its very easy to get rid of him through bounce or kill spells. Thats one random advantage, His body is really good for a topend aggro threat as well. I want him to do well so bad.
I'm calling right now that the RW legend in Dragon's maze will give batallion doublestrike.
Love the Seer. Obviously plays very well with another possible inclusion from GTC, Dimir Charm, and all of the top-of-the-library manipulation cards available in cube. Other than the obvious synergies, this is definitely a tempo card, and I'm down to try it out at least. Dimir is definitely one of the toughest guild sections to crack, though. I'll probably cut Recoil to try this guy out.
I am not sure about Duskmantle Seer. I proposed a mono-b enchantment with that ability in the "Print This" thread, kind of a black Sulfuric Vortex. I like the ability; it's powerful and can work in aggro decks as reach or more controlling decks that can use cards more efficiently than the opponent. I also like that it could fit in a deck with Psychatog and Shadowmage Infiltrator.
4 mana is a fair bit, especially for an effect that seems variable though. Not sure this does what base-blue decks want either, but maybe it will help out some U/B tempo deck. I don't mind powerful cards that take some work/build-around to maximize, and this guy may be that.
Edit: Unexpected Results seems fun in non-cube formats, but I don't think it's as strong as other Simic options.
Jim, sorry I'm late to the party on this, but Forsaken Wastes does a decent impersanation. I ran it for a while and it preformed decently, until I realized black hurt itself so much it actually wanted a lot of lifegain.
It's notable that the Seer causes your opponent to draw in your own upkeep. This means that unless he draws an instant he does not get to use the card until the following turn. It is quite different from cards like Howling Mine where your opponent is first to benefit. Presumably because of APNAP, if you and your opponent both draw fatal cards you still win as your opponent's damage resolves first. Or is it all one simultaneous ability?
Although we are nearly halfway through the cards, there are still 10 hybrids to be revealed (assuming common/uncommon/rare for each guild, like RTR). Unfortunately all the Gruul hybrids have been revealed, and none is going in my cube.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Sometimes we do and sometimes we don't. We generally prefer no sideboard play whenever possible. But sometimes with players that are brand new to the format, we'll use sideboards for their first few drafts.
How does Skaarg Guildmage stack up against Flinthoof Boar? The Boar looks more reliable but the Guildmage looks better if the game goes long. Thoughts? I'm going to use one of these to replace Artifact Mutation in my cube.
Sometimes we do and sometimes we don't. We generally prefer no sideboard play whenever possible. But sometimes with players that are brand new to the format, we'll use sideboards for their first few drafts.
Would you mind expanding on why? Not allowing sideboarding cuts out a large skill-testing part of the game, IMO. But I'm sure you have your reaosns, just curious what they are.
My group does sideboards some of the time and no sideboards sometimes. It can take just as much skill building a diverse deck that can handle any deck that is thrown at it, as a single deck that can adapt with a sideboard. It makes it easier to keep track of all the cards, and easier to clean up afterwards. It also speeds up rounds as instead of a brief delay to sideboard, people instantly shuffle and are back in the game. I would definitely recommend no sideboards if you are traveling to cube.
It's notable that the Seer causes your opponent to draw in your own upkeep. This means that unless he draws an instant he does not get to use the card until the following turn. It is quite different from cards like Howling Mine where your opponent is first to benefit. Presumably because of APNAP, if you and your opponent both draw fatal cards you still win as your opponent's damage resolves first. Or is it all one simultaneous ability?
I assume here the way it's written is that you both reveal at the same time, and then SBE is checked once the ability resolves, so you'll both die at the same time. SBE isn't checked during the resolution of a spell or ability.
The seer is bad.
It's anti-ramp sideboard tech at best.
Very hard to exploit the symmetry, and has no impact the turn it comes into play. It's best an low curve-agroish deck which are almost never U/B decks.. So you are forcing yourself into a disadvantage against a LOT of decks.
And the deck's it's good against, it's only solid.. Not amazing.
I think part of the reason it bothers me is because it's a FANTASTIC idea that could have been tweaked to be more competitive.
This set has soo many cards that are really interesting that fall JUST short of competitive play.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
4/4 flyer for 4 is a good curve topper in UB aggro if you run it, it giving card parity is ok, since you are blue, your cards are the best, and the lifeloss makes it a lot stronger then a simple 4/4 flying for 4. I'm not saying its godly but I would definitely say it requires testing before its considered bad. It's good against ramp, and you outaggro your opponent to exploit the symmetry. if low curve aggroish decks are almost never U/B decks i think thats a problem with the cube, which is what I'm going to try to fix in mine. I'm really thinking the angle of Blue is control needs to be looked at again in cube design.
My group does sideboards some of the time and no sideboards sometimes. It can take just as much skill building a diverse deck that can handle any deck that is thrown at it, as a single deck that can adapt with a sideboard. It makes it easier to keep track of all the cards, and easier to clean up afterwards. It also speeds up rounds as instead of a brief delay to sideboard, people instantly shuffle and are back in the game. I would definitely recommend no sideboards if you are traveling to cube.
Yeah, cubing at a PTQ or whatever definitely makes sense to have no sideboards. With 8 players you can trust in a safe environment like someone's apartment though, disallowing sideboarding seems like overkill.
The seer is bad.
It's anti-ramp sideboard tech at best.
I think you're focusing on the life loss too much. Pairing this with land destruction or tempo support means your opponent might not even be able to utilize the extra cards they are drawing, while in the meantime you are drawing cheap disruption to maintain your board advantage. I do agree that it's on the expensive side for a tempo play, and it is horrendous against aggro (certainly true for many other cards in cube) but I think it has potential.
I think part of the reason it bothers me is because it's a FANTASTIC idea that could have been tweaked to be more competitive.
I don't think they can reduce the mana cost at all, even with a P/T reduction to 3/3. Even a 2/3 for 3 with this ability is dangerous to print alongside any type of tempo shell. The trigger is templated intelligently (on your upkeep instead of each upkeep). I'm interested to hear how you would tweak it.
4/4 flyer for 4 is a good curve topper in UB aggro if you run it, it giving card parity is ok, since you are blue, your cards are the best, and the lifeloss makes it a lot stronger then a simple 4/4 flying for 4. I'm not saying its godly but I would definitely say it requires testing before its considered bad. It's good against ramp, and you outaggro your opponent to exploit the symmetry. if low curve aggroish decks are almost never U/B decks i think thats a problem with the cube, which is what I'm going to try to fix in mine. I'm really thinking the angle of Blue is control needs to be looked at again in cube design.
You think you should include a card that is only going to be "solid" at best in a very rarely played archtype, and unplayable in every other one?
I think you're focusing on the life loss too much. Pairing this with land destruction or tempo support means your opponent might not even be able to utilize the extra cards they are drawing, while in the meantime you are drawing cheap disruption to maintain your board advantage. I do agree that it's on the expensive side for a tempo play, and it is horrendous against aggro (certainly true for many other cards in cube) but I think it has potential.
I don't think they can reduce the mana cost at all, even with a P/T reduction to 3/3. Even a 2/3 for 3 with this ability is dangerous to print alongside any type of tempo shell. The trigger is templated intelligently (on your upkeep instead of each upkeep). I'm interested to hear how you would tweak it.
It's mostly the color combination it's in , the cost and the difficulty abusing the symmetry that makes it bad.
I'd tweak it to be a 2/2 or mayyybe 3/1 flyer for 1UB with the same ability.
If it were 1RB it would be broken, but I dont think this is true for 1UB.
The reduced cost would allow you to reap the reward of tuning your deck to take advantage of it's ability, without taking a value blowout from eating a cheap removal spell... And get it online earlier.
Boros Charm (Over Lightning Helix)
I agree with the supporters of this card. It provides reach, hits planeswalkers and is wrath protection. I also think people are undervaluing the double-strike a little. You don't need a 5+ power creature, but any number of creatures that have 5+ power combined, which should be easy in Boros. It also works extremely well with pump of any kind (Equipment, Anthems, Reckless Charge, Battle Cry, etc) doubles triggers, and can make some unfavorable blocks for your opponent. I don't know, I like it. More than Helix anyway. Which is a good card, but Searing Spear plays the same a large chunk of the time. Boros Charm is unique and effective.
Expirement One - Simply a good card in aggro, midrange and green splashes. It'll be pretty common for it to be 3/3 or higher in the right decks, plus it can regenerate in a pince, and all for one mana. Just a great all-around card. I'll be removing Unvewald Tracker for it, which can dominate games every now and then, but was slow even for our ramp deck and was a not great topdeck unless you already had a superior board of creatures.
Possible inclusions: Domri Rade - Our G / G/r decks are almost exclusively midrange here, so I believe the planeswalker will fit right in cast on T2 off the back of a T1 mana producer. Even if the first ability whiffs half the time, I think it will still be worth it. Midrange decks generally have larger creatures so his -2 will be really good as well. He can sit back and grind card advantage for you until he makes all your creatures almost impossible to counteract. I'm going to test this in lieu of Stormbind. A card I actually like, but nobody really plays it. Aggro decks with green splashes don't pick it up.
None of the other cards really excite me all that much. I'm hoping for another really good Gruul 1-3 drop, and one other Orzhov card. We'll see!
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
One thing that having mindshrieker in my cube has shown is that unwary opponents often have some huge things lurking in their deck. Now as far as what the deck will look like, I have two cards so far. Finkel, blue tempo cards, black aggro. It might work.
Dissappointed with the Gruul beast. I feel like they were close to something. A giant flametounge Kavu would have been cool. It need to cost 1 less and/or have haste/trample/bloodrush etc.. It does say opponents creature which keeps if from being a drawback(unless they have 1 huge monster out but I don't see that).
The simic card is fun but liekly too unreliable. I prefer chaos warp. At least that is removal.
Did they need to make the new ball lightning terrible. RRW would have been a gross enough casting cost without adding 1 more for lifelink. It could at least had Battalion Trample, I would have loved a Battalion double strike but I don't think we are getting that.
All the rest of the spoiled cards are pretty bad.
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There's also a lot of room for your opponent to draw a lot of cards. I do appreciate that the design has you both drawing on your upkeep instead of everyone drawing on their own upkeep, because that would've made it instantly unplayable.
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That's a personal preference thing, though.
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I'm calling right now that the RW legend in Dragon's maze will give batallion doublestrike.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
Jim, sorry I'm late to the party on this, but Forsaken Wastes does a decent impersanation. I ran it for a while and it preformed decently, until I realized black hurt itself so much it actually wanted a lot of lifegain.
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Although we are nearly halfway through the cards, there are still 10 hybrids to be revealed (assuming common/uncommon/rare for each guild, like RTR). Unfortunately all the Gruul hybrids have been revealed, and none is going in my cube.
Is this a change for you? I thought that not cubing with sideboards was your default.
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Would you mind expanding on why? Not allowing sideboarding cuts out a large skill-testing part of the game, IMO. But I'm sure you have your reaosns, just curious what they are.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
I assume here the way it's written is that you both reveal at the same time, and then SBE is checked once the ability resolves, so you'll both die at the same time. SBE isn't checked during the resolution of a spell or ability.
360 Uncommons only Cube!
It's anti-ramp sideboard tech at best.
Very hard to exploit the symmetry, and has no impact the turn it comes into play. It's best an low curve-agroish deck which are almost never U/B decks.. So you are forcing yourself into a disadvantage against a LOT of decks.
And the deck's it's good against, it's only solid.. Not amazing.
I think part of the reason it bothers me is because it's a FANTASTIC idea that could have been tweaked to be more competitive.
This set has soo many cards that are really interesting that fall JUST short of competitive play.
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I agree.
I think it is no coincidence that the "Thanks for the card, Wizards, but it should look like this..." thread appeared during this spoiler season.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
Yeah, cubing at a PTQ or whatever definitely makes sense to have no sideboards. With 8 players you can trust in a safe environment like someone's apartment though, disallowing sideboarding seems like overkill.
I think you're focusing on the life loss too much. Pairing this with land destruction or tempo support means your opponent might not even be able to utilize the extra cards they are drawing, while in the meantime you are drawing cheap disruption to maintain your board advantage. I do agree that it's on the expensive side for a tempo play, and it is horrendous against aggro (certainly true for many other cards in cube) but I think it has potential.
I don't think they can reduce the mana cost at all, even with a P/T reduction to 3/3. Even a 2/3 for 3 with this ability is dangerous to print alongside any type of tempo shell. The trigger is templated intelligently (on your upkeep instead of each upkeep). I'm interested to hear how you would tweak it.
You think you should include a card that is only going to be "solid" at best in a very rarely played archtype, and unplayable in every other one?
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Why is that? I think it means lots of multicolor. Especially 3 color gold cards, hybrids and/or 3 color hybrids.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
It's mostly the color combination it's in , the cost and the difficulty abusing the symmetry that makes it bad.
I'd tweak it to be a 2/2 or mayyybe 3/1 flyer for 1UB with the same ability.
If it were 1RB it would be broken, but I dont think this is true for 1UB.
The reduced cost would allow you to reap the reward of tuning your deck to take advantage of it's ability, without taking a value blowout from eating a cheap removal spell... And get it online earlier.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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Boros Charm (Over Lightning Helix)
I agree with the supporters of this card. It provides reach, hits planeswalkers and is wrath protection. I also think people are undervaluing the double-strike a little. You don't need a 5+ power creature, but any number of creatures that have 5+ power combined, which should be easy in Boros. It also works extremely well with pump of any kind (Equipment, Anthems, Reckless Charge, Battle Cry, etc) doubles triggers, and can make some unfavorable blocks for your opponent. I don't know, I like it. More than Helix anyway. Which is a good card, but Searing Spear plays the same a large chunk of the time. Boros Charm is unique and effective.
Expirement One - Simply a good card in aggro, midrange and green splashes. It'll be pretty common for it to be 3/3 or higher in the right decks, plus it can regenerate in a pince, and all for one mana. Just a great all-around card. I'll be removing Unvewald Tracker for it, which can dominate games every now and then, but was slow even for our ramp deck and was a not great topdeck unless you already had a superior board of creatures.
Possible inclusions:
Domri Rade - Our G / G/r decks are almost exclusively midrange here, so I believe the planeswalker will fit right in cast on T2 off the back of a T1 mana producer. Even if the first ability whiffs half the time, I think it will still be worth it. Midrange decks generally have larger creatures so his -2 will be really good as well. He can sit back and grind card advantage for you until he makes all your creatures almost impossible to counteract. I'm going to test this in lieu of Stormbind. A card I actually like, but nobody really plays it. Aggro decks with green splashes don't pick it up.
None of the other cards really excite me all that much. I'm hoping for another really good Gruul 1-3 drop, and one other Orzhov card. We'll see!