do you find darksteel ingot better than fellwar stone? I've found that in most multiplayer games it serves the same function and comes out a turn sooner... I guess the ingot is anti disc...
might be a preference choice...
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Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
True, the Stone hits the table sooner. I haven't fielded it probably because of my meta, it's ridiculously abundant in board sweeps and I usually rely on the Ingot to recover.
True, the Stone hits the table sooner. I haven't fielded it probably because of my meta, it's ridiculously abundant in board sweeps and I usually rely on the Ingot to recover.
i might swap, but I don't usually see disc...
if so I usually kill it before it untaps... lol
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Lucky you if you can off the bastard before he discs on you! I've found -the hard way- that slivers attract tons of aggro... I mean, even being the third in power on a table of six results in a barrage of removal directed my way =P
Lucky you if you can off the bastard before he discs on you! I've found -the hard way- that slivers attract tons of aggro... I mean, even being the third in power on a table of six results in a barrage of removal directed my way =P
I got hated alive Sunday at the local EDH tournament...
Sad thing is I was mana screwed but managed to get gemhide and mana echoes out, then a kid wanted to kill one of my slivers but couldn't... the card could also destroy a land so he did... I was one colored mana off of going infinite but couldn't because he blew up the land... then the table turned turned it on not even knowing why after a board wipe... all people think slivers are the biggest threat at all time... not so much after a -5/-5 wipe... other people still had nasty fatties out... i had nothing... they still hated me out... lol
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Now THAT'S an effing horrible way to go... after being on the verge of victory
A body might think slivers just got a lot of hype... the best Zur or Mayael deck you can put together will have any sliver decklist out there for breakfast. (Not to mention anything running stuff like Sadistic Sacrament (ouch) or Tsabo's Decree.)
I *SO* envy you being able to play EDH tournaments AT ALL... I'm actually trying to organize a stable circuit here. Problem is, every effing dude here is all about either Standard or Extended. Meh. Prolly I'll stick to Cockatrice for the time being...
Now THAT'S an effing horrible way to go... after being on the verge of victory
A body might think slivers just got a lot of hype... the best Zur or Mayael deck you can put together will have any sliver decklist out there for breakfast. (Not to mention anything running stuff like Sadistic Sacrament (ouch) or Tsabo's Decree.)
I *SO* envy you being able to play EDH tournaments AT ALL... I'm actually trying to organize a stable circuit here. Problem is, every effing dude here is all about either Standard or Extended. Meh. Prolly I'll stick to Cockatrice for the time being...
this week was a whopping 5 folks...
and yeah, it's funny to see people playing blue/white/black complaining about slivers...
I run one counter in my deck (Cryptic) and one control magic spell (bribery)... slivers can be annoying, but not like a good blue deck... lol
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Lawl! I'm not alone, then Got a link to your slivers list? I'm curious.
Deck is at a friends house I'll post soon...
Funny thing is my other deck is Geth and gets hated on bad in my play group... Nobody can see threats for what they are...
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Again: I *SO* envy you. I barely have a Plateau myself. And duals are way above my pay grade, so to speak... go figure, I make barely over 400 USD a month
I'll check it out in the morrow, by all accounts I should be asleep, I got to attend classes tomorrow. Peace.
Again: I *SO* envy you. I barely have a Plateau myself. And duals are way above my pay grade, so to speak... go figure, I make barely over 400 USD a month
I'll check it out in the morrow, by all accounts I should be asleep, I got to attend classes tomorrow. Peace.
I only paid for two duals...
Paid $48 for a nm-/ex+ tundra, and $37 for a Volcanic in the same condition
Traded for all other duals. It's taken about 6 months to do... and I still have 2 to go...
Unfortunately dual prices have spiked...
I understand about not being able to afford legacy staples...
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**EDIT: Posted first draft of strategy guide on thread starter**
Okay... you certainly run more slivers than I do. What is your principal winning condition?
- I ran Amoeboid Changeling myself until I got tired of having it nuked back to the dinosaur age. If there's a card more feared in my meta than any of the Big Three slivers, this is it. Granted, it won me some great games... I recall stealing a Phage once and killing his owner with it.
- Chameleon Colossus... this one didn't make the cut when I compared it to other slivers, or even to Mirror Entity, which is versatile beyond belief. I suppose it would draw some hate.
- I removed Clot Sliver myself when I noticed I only needed to regen slivers once every three or so games. Great when you have someone cast a Day of Judgment on you, but against things with burial or exile effects you're effed either way.
- I never ran anything with trample, and I never missed it. I suggest you cut Horned Sliver in favor of something else, unless you rely on having a high sliver count in play.
- I found that Might Sliver, Muscle Sliver and Sinew Sliver are all unnecessary if you can field Sliver Legion. I prefer not to draw attention my way by pumping my slivers if it won't kill anyone the turn they enter play.
- What do you run Psionic Sliver for? I fielded it for use with tokens when I ran the Queen as commander.
- I can't still make up my mind between Pulmonic Sliver and Winged Sliver myself. Recently I've been fielding Pulmonic to add evasion for the massed attack; if it turns to be the sole use I have for it I will ditch it for Winged.
- Kozilek, Butcher of Truth was quite the surprise. I can see you running it for both shock and awe and card advantage, but, the way I see it, things can sour quickly if an opponent has something to send this juggernaut your way... My brother runs tons of blue stuff that steals permanents, and my red deck runs several one-shot surprises similar in purpose. And how to field it? Either you draw it or you tutor it via spells, Overlord won't help you here unless you run Conspiracy, which equals wasting a card slot IMHO.
Your one-shots aren't really that different from mine, with the notable blue exceptions instead of running more ramp. I'd run more board sweeps myself.
- Harsh Mercy looks awesome on paper, but I've found that with 4+ players on the table it means probably you'll actually kill very few creatures.
- I expected it would hurt me more, but ditching Enlightened Tutor and Mystical Tutor didn't really affect me negatively, and I do run enchantments by the truckload.
I used to run both Rhystic Study and Training Grounds myself, too, but neither were worth spending a tutor. And you know the chances of drawing one card in EDH. And about Jace, I never actually considered it because I've seen it getting vaporized every time instants after hitting the table. I ran Liliana Vess for tutoring once and I'm tempted about running Garruk Wildspeaker, which would probably suit you well given your creature count. If you're running Jace because you consistently suffer insufficient card advantage, then I suggest you replace him for a Mirri's Guile; that way you won't miss him as much and you'll keep a deck fixing effect on the table for a longer time. (I've yet to see someone waste removal on killing my own.)
**EDIT: Posted first draft of strategy guide on thread starter**
haven't been here in forever. props to crux for keeping this alive. edh is basically dead in my playgroup, but i still champion this deck.
for my deck, less is more. having a sliver core of about 9~12 slivers and overlord has done wonders for my deck. it is a tutoring machine, and having all the slivers play off each other makes the complimentary cards work.
best regards guys, keep it up.
edit: i think in my last list sliver queen is missing. probably a mental misstep on my part. she lets you go infinite with colorless mana and slivers. use her.
I've been talked into trying out a counter-sliver build; I found it not too hard to perform the conversion, but I'd like to hear out your thoughts on the matter.
i suppose it depends on what kind of decks you are playing and if you are playing one on one or multiplayer.
your counterspells lose a lot of worth outside of a duel. even more so if multiple decks have blue/counters.
I think i only use hinder and maybe one other spell i can't think of atm. any counter that buries a general is good. the rest of my spell suite is target removal like vindicate, putrefy, mortify, maelstrom pulse.
edit: voidslime was the card i was thinking of. with 5 colors, i tried to put in spells that could do multiple things. having the a full set of duals and fetches makes it viable to run a lot multi colored cards.
When I feel I am losing board control and I need to board wipe I will play Ghostway, then any wipe card to get it back under my control. Since Ghostway is a instant, any board wipe a player plays, i will tutor for that card if not in hand.
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I wanted to discuss my new take on my deck, others decks, and slivers in general. Rambling, digression, and tangents ahead.
Thank you, to everyone that contributed to this thread. I think this has been the biggest discussion of any one sliver related EDH deck on this forum. My deck and how I play it are on another level thanks to all the contributions and ideas here.
The other day I realized how bad my deck was :D. I was trying to do way too many things at once and trying to cram in as many "good stuff" cards as I possibly could.
I think I had maybe 9-12 slivers in the deck. Most of the games I won, most of them were irrelevant to how I won. I would usually end up hitting a combo or finding a way to swing through with Sliver Overlord. The problem with that is, I either managed to pull that off game 1 or not at all. If I did get it on game 1, I would immediately be hated out the next game. If I didn't get off the ground on game 1, it never happened in another game.
I came to the conclusion that, even with five colors at my disposal, I can not do it all. I needed a more streamlined approach. I needed more resiliency. I needed more threat density. I needed less BS in my deck.
My deck has always been a work in progress. For a while though, I just became content and did not try to improve. Being able to blow out a 4-5 man game out of nowhere will do that to a person.
After taking some beatings in 1v1 where I'm always the focus, I knew my deck had fallen off. Things were not clicking. Things were not consistent enough.
In an attempt to get things to work, I broke it down.
What deck am I playing?
I hope whoever reads this can really take something away from this 'segment'.
I realized that I was way to focused on my general rather than my deck. Granted that is a big part of EDH deck building, but with a tool-box type general, it is easy to get caught up and lost in the deck.
For players looking to invest in slivers, think about who you want to command your army.
1v1: All three generals are viable. I would rate them 1.Queen 2.Legion 3.Overlord.
With Queen as your general you have one half (or one third) of your combo available. If you can find Mana Echoes fast enough and protect it, its a wrap. you are either going zerg them or if you have a Necrotic Sliver you can force them to scoop.
Sliver Legion, I wrote this guy off. I don't know why it didn't occur to me that hitting 21 general damage would easier with Legion, opposed to Overlord. I'm trying to flesh out a game plan, but it would be redundant to do so. Play your guys, give him evasion and swing.
Overlord can make things way more complicated than they have to be. He can make anything happen and thats where things get murky. Devise a plan going in or you won't get off the line fast enough and you end up getting blown out.
MP Again each general is viable, but I believe some have better value facing multiple opponents. 1.Overlord 2.Queen 3.Legion
Overlord likes to play it both ways. Multiplayer you need options. Being able to tutor up your combo Queen or buff Legion huge. This deck can get mana intensive. I would refrain from playing any cards (sans Legion and Queen) with CMC 5 or more.
Queen is probably the most fragile build to go with. She is easily enough disrupted in a 1v1 let alone a multiplayer setting. She can, however, go off and win a multiplayer game in a single turn. For that I put her higher than Legion.
Legion can hang against multiple opponents. Beware of getting to aggressive though. Alpha swings should be rare as they can cost you the game. This deck is also susceptible to folding after a board wipe.
____
No matter what, keep in mind that your General can and will become irrelevant at times. Don't panic. Slivers adapt, you can change your game play on the fly. In some games you will be forced to! Take comfort in the fact that your deck is flexible enough to do that.
Regardless, your choice you will raise some eyebrows and perhaps generate a groan amongst players. Some will know better than to think that your deck is just filled to the rafter with slivers. Others may just assume you need to be eliminated immediately. Be ready to draw heat when you sit down.
The Brood
If you have gone through the thread from the start up to this point, you noticed a lot of substandard and lackluster slivers have been discarded.
My latest shell is starting to look like it was ripped from CounterSlivers. Definitely not as potent as this is a singleton format, but still threatening. I would recommend this as a starting point for new players.
There are also a few slivers that should be considered but they are not necessary. These guys can help get damage through, provide more evasion, generate card advantage, or offer another way to win.
If building for 1v1, your Queen deck will run almost no other slivers. If the sliver isn't conducive to the combo it will likely be exempt from your list. For posterity, these are slivers I could see in the Queen Combo build.
If you can fit some basics into your deck, do so. The mana base is fragile and easily disrupted by Blood Moon effects.
Also, if you are dedicated enough to work out your color ratios, you could straight up remove certain dual lands and fetch lands that don't offer as much value as another land. I've yet to do this myself but feel it is worth mentioning.
This is starting to feel like a primer. It is not. The rest of the deck probably has some choices that are clearly sub optimum or are just being tested out.
Past permanents, I think the rest of the deck is up in the air. I'm shifting towards strictly 1v1 play (official or french lists). Lots of spot removal, counter spells, and hand disruption. Just in case anyone is interested, here is the deck in its entirety at the moment.
I have my deck pretty much where I want it. I honestly haven't played it in a while. I've been playing other generals a bit more.
You dig a lot more than I do. I use ramp (for land types to pull duals) much more than you do. This allows me to combo off in 1 turn usually. I must admit getting training grounds on the board really helps that. I use a lot of tutor effects to do so.
My list isn't near as tightly honed I don't think. But I like to be surprised by my draws as seeing a lot of old cards and getting to play with them is what makes EDH fun for me.
That said, yes, people know the deck and hate on it to high heaven. It's usually an archenemy game from the get go. lol The fun part is still winning even when 3 people are gunning for you.
The deck does well in both 1v1 and Multiplayer.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I do indeed dig a lot. I don't trust the top deck. I use to run Top, Sylvan LibraryandMirri's Guile. That turned out to be over kill and watered my deck down. Library is still in, but I am another loss away from dropping it and just running Top.
I also used to run a lot of ramp but decided it wasn't working for me. I've managed to mellow out the curve as well. Being able to produce 5 colors is usually enough. I left a few mana rocks and run Mulch in the deck just in case.
I can't remember what prompted me to do this, but I managed to cut out Mystical Tutor and Enlightened Tutor. They just didn't do it for me. Putting whatever I tutored up on the top and not in my hand just felt too slow. Vampiric Tutor gets a pass from me because it can get anything.
Training Grounds was another card I dropped. If I played it I drew heat. If I tutored it and had to reveal it, I was telegraphing my next move(s).
I feel like I should run more Clones, but I'm not willing to buy them :).
Gonna try to get some games in soon and report back.
You got me thinking with that huge pseudo-primer post of yours, Gref... I have more or less stuck to my current build for months on now; only swapped out a land to make room for Cavern of Souls. Me, I'm not a 1v1 player, and I'm used to getting flak whenever I play two cards in a row... Everyone here is just scared s**tless of slivers, even if they should fear powerhouses like Rafiq or Sharuum more. Even when they both are on the table. Even when either of them is winning or dominating.
*AHEM* But I digress. Again, I'm not for 1v1, so my criticism or advice would not be applicable IMO. Still, your deck reminds me of one of the Spetznaz--not an ounce of fat, rugged, and ruthlessly efficient. Almost control-ish in a way. Seems very deadly on a duel. I could take a page off your book, though... ditching Mystical Tutor for more spot removal does not seem like a bad idea.
I have little to contribute for your decklist, Danz, mostly because I have ran a similar build in the past (but not an identical one). I found I was trying to do everything at once, too, and in doing it got overextended and very vulnerable. So I stuck for a combo-ish approach with a Voltron backup plan, and crammed my build with countermeasures. Your play style may be what's making a difference, though... One of the most veteran players around mauled two different six-player pods with the same deck that saw me curbstomped four times in a row by the same players! (That, I admit, does not picture me favorably skill-wise...)
Since Gref has taken the pains to break down his choices by category, here's my take on each one
Brood:
Clearly you're going for a much different plan than mine here. Other than the core slivers (meaning, Crystalline, Gemhide, Heart, possibly Winged, and the evil trifecta), almost all of the 'base' slivers I have ditched for other options. I run the Queen combo myself, so these are all in, except Acidic and Cautery.
I used to run Clone myself, but ditched it for Phantasmal Image, mostly because I tend to use it for legend removal.
Land base:
Little to say here, really. Every choice here (other than duals, shocks and fetches) is very personal. Including a few basics would be wise indeed, but I just can't bring myself to ditch anything
Relics:
I never run any equipment myself... usually I only play my commander when Crystalline is on the table, or when I can fetch it without danger.
- Pithing Needle is an awesome idea, I'll have to give that some thought
- At first glance, I thought, "why Ivory Tower when you can have a sliver with lifelink on the table?" Then again, it may not be as threatening.
Enchantments:
The Timmy in me really wants to experiment with Omniscience, though at first glance it seems entirely redundant... I would like to know your thoughts on this one.
I'm really liking you're list. I know you said you'd like to run more clones but you don't want to buy them, but I'd like to recommend Sakashima the Impostor and Quicksilver Gargantuan. Saka can copy Sliver Legion to make some mega-sized slivers (She could also copy Sliver Queen and Sliver King, or any other Legend for that matter). The Gargantuan could just turn into a really big version of Might Sliver or something else if you wanted (that'd be a mighty Might Sliver, lol).
And I don't know how worried you are about life gain, but Essence Sliver might be kinda valuable to you.
I'm really liking you're list. I know you said you'd like to run more clones but you don't want to buy them, but I'd like to recommend Sakashima the Impostor and Quicksilver Gargantuan. Saka can copy Sliver Legion to make some mega-sized slivers (She could also copy Sliver Queen and Sliver King, or any other Legend for that matter). The Gargantuan could just turn into a really big version of Might Sliver or something else if you wanted (that'd be a mighty Might Sliver, lol).
And I don't know how worried you are about life gain, but Essence Sliver might be kinda valuable to you.
I aim to combo out long before lifegain would have any effect.
I think I need a more ruthless meta to keep me honest. lol I feel like this deck can go in like 20 directions. The nice thing is because of that, I can deal with board wipes very well. Our meta is all about board wipes, so I just need to have Pulmonic Sliver out early or backup plans available.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Many others...
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do you find darksteel ingot better than fellwar stone? I've found that in most multiplayer games it serves the same function and comes out a turn sooner... I guess the ingot is anti disc...
might be a preference choice...
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
i might swap, but I don't usually see disc...
if so I usually kill it before it untaps... lol
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
I got hated alive Sunday at the local EDH tournament...
Sad thing is I was mana screwed but managed to get gemhide and mana echoes out, then a kid wanted to kill one of my slivers but couldn't... the card could also destroy a land so he did... I was one colored mana off of going infinite but couldn't because he blew up the land... then the table turned turned it on not even knowing why after a board wipe... all people think slivers are the biggest threat at all time... not so much after a -5/-5 wipe... other people still had nasty fatties out... i had nothing... they still hated me out... lol
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
A body might think slivers just got a lot of hype... the best Zur or Mayael deck you can put together will have any sliver decklist out there for breakfast. (Not to mention anything running stuff like Sadistic Sacrament (ouch) or Tsabo's Decree.)
I *SO* envy you being able to play EDH tournaments AT ALL... I'm actually trying to organize a stable circuit here. Problem is, every effing dude here is all about either Standard or Extended. Meh. Prolly I'll stick to Cockatrice for the time being...
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
this week was a whopping 5 folks...
and yeah, it's funny to see people playing blue/white/black complaining about slivers...
I run one counter in my deck (Cryptic) and one control magic spell (bribery)... slivers can be annoying, but not like a good blue deck... lol
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
Deck is at a friends house I'll post soon...
Funny thing is my other deck is Geth and gets hated on bad in my play group... Nobody can see threats for what they are...
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
1 Sliver Overlord
Slivers
2 Basal Sliver
3 Cloudshredder Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver
5 Dormant Sliver
6 Galerider Sliver
7 Gemhide Sliver
8 Harmonic Sliver
9 Heart Sliver
10 Hibernation Sliver
11 Homing Sliver
12 Lavabelly Sliver
13 Manaweft Sliver
14 Necrotic Sliver
15 Psionic Sliver
16 Pulmonic Sliver
17 Quick Sliver
18 Root Sliver
19 Sedge Sliver
20 Sliver Queen
21 Sliver Hivelord
22 Sliver Legion
23 The First Sliver
Non Sliver Creatures
24 Biomancer's Familiar
25 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
26 Morophon, the Boundless
Instants
27 Cryptic Command
28 Eerie Interlude
29 Enlightened Tutor
30 Ghostway
31 Path to Exile
32 Swords to Plowshares
33 Vampiric Tutor
34 Bring to Light
35 Day of Judgement
36 Demonic Tutor
37 Farseek
38 Maelstrom Pulse
39 Nature's Lore
40 Patriarch's Bidding
41 Regrowth
42 Skyshroud Claim
43 Tooth and Nail
44 Vindicate
45 Wargate
Enchantments
46 Mana Echoes
47 Mirari's Wake
48 Pernicious Deed
49 Rhystic Study
50 Smothering Tithe
51 Sylvan Library
52 Training Grounds
Artifacts
53 Chromatic Lantern
54 Crucible of Worlds
55 Cryptic Gateway
56 Darksteel Ingot
57 Fellwar Stone
58 Mana Vault
59 Mind's Eye
60 Mox Diamond
61 Ratchet Bomb
62 Scroll Rack
63 Sensei's Divining Top
64 Sol Ring
Lands (37)
65 Arid Mesa
66 Badlands
67 Bayou
68 Blood Crypt
69 Breeding Pool
70 Cavern of Souls
71 Crystal Quarry
72 Flooded Strand
73 Forest
74 Godless Shrine
75 Hallowed Fountain
76 Island
77 Marsh Flats
78 Misty Rainforest
79 Mutavault
80 Overgrown Tomb
81 Plains
82 Plateau
83 Polluted Delta
84 Sacred Foundry
85 Savannah
86 Scrubland
87 Steam Vents
88 Strip Mine
89 Stomping Ground
90 Swamp
91 Taiga
92 Temple Garden
93 Tropical Island
94 Tundra
95 Underground Sea
96 Verdant Catacombs
97 Volcanic Island
98 Watery Grave
99 Windswept Heath
100 Wooded Foothills
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I'll check it out in the morrow, by all accounts I should be asleep, I got to attend classes tomorrow. Peace.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
I only paid for two duals...
Paid $48 for a nm-/ex+ tundra, and $37 for a Volcanic in the same condition
Traded for all other duals. It's taken about 6 months to do... and I still have 2 to go...
Unfortunately dual prices have spiked...
I understand about not being able to afford legacy staples...
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Okay... you certainly run more slivers than I do. What is your principal winning condition?
- I ran Amoeboid Changeling myself until I got tired of having it nuked back to the dinosaur age. If there's a card more feared in my meta than any of the Big Three slivers, this is it. Granted, it won me some great games... I recall stealing a Phage once and killing his owner with it.
- Chameleon Colossus... this one didn't make the cut when I compared it to other slivers, or even to Mirror Entity, which is versatile beyond belief. I suppose it would draw some hate.
- I removed Clot Sliver myself when I noticed I only needed to regen slivers once every three or so games. Great when you have someone cast a Day of Judgment on you, but against things with burial or exile effects you're effed either way.
- I never ran anything with trample, and I never missed it. I suggest you cut Horned Sliver in favor of something else, unless you rely on having a high sliver count in play.
- I found that Might Sliver, Muscle Sliver and Sinew Sliver are all unnecessary if you can field Sliver Legion. I prefer not to draw attention my way by pumping my slivers if it won't kill anyone the turn they enter play.
- What do you run Psionic Sliver for? I fielded it for use with tokens when I ran the Queen as commander.
- Sedge Sliver I still use as placeholder for the Ward Sliver I'm missing.
- Spectral Sliver is too mana intensive for my tastes. I have much better uses for 2, and I'm almost always short on mana.
- If you want card advantage, I suggest you ditch Synapse Sliver for Dormant Sliver. With either Hibernation Sliver or Necrotic Sliver in play you can quickly get rid of the defender ability when you need to swing in for the kill.
- I can't still make up my mind between Pulmonic Sliver and Winged Sliver myself. Recently I've been fielding Pulmonic to add evasion for the massed attack; if it turns to be the sole use I have for it I will ditch it for Winged.
- Kozilek, Butcher of Truth was quite the surprise. I can see you running it for both shock and awe and card advantage, but, the way I see it, things can sour quickly if an opponent has something to send this juggernaut your way... My brother runs tons of blue stuff that steals permanents, and my red deck runs several one-shot surprises similar in purpose. And how to field it? Either you draw it or you tutor it via spells, Overlord won't help you here unless you run Conspiracy, which equals wasting a card slot IMHO.
Your one-shots aren't really that different from mine, with the notable blue exceptions instead of running more ramp. I'd run more board sweeps myself.
- Harsh Mercy looks awesome on paper, but I've found that with 4+ players on the table it means probably you'll actually kill very few creatures.
- I expected it would hurt me more, but ditching Enlightened Tutor and Mystical Tutor didn't really affect me negatively, and I do run enchantments by the truckload.
I used to run both Rhystic Study and Training Grounds myself, too, but neither were worth spending a tutor. And you know the chances of drawing one card in EDH. And about Jace, I never actually considered it because I've seen it getting vaporized every time instants after hitting the table. I ran Liliana Vess for tutoring once and I'm tempted about running Garruk Wildspeaker, which would probably suit you well given your creature count. If you're running Jace because you consistently suffer insufficient card advantage, then I suggest you replace him for a Mirri's Guile; that way you won't miss him as much and you'll keep a deck fixing effect on the table for a longer time. (I've yet to see someone waste removal on killing my own.)
**EDIT: Posted first draft of strategy guide on thread starter**
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
for my deck, less is more. having a sliver core of about 9~12 slivers and overlord has done wonders for my deck. it is a tutoring machine, and having all the slivers play off each other makes the complimentary cards work.
best regards guys, keep it up.
edit: i think in my last list sliver queen is missing. probably a mental misstep on my part. she lets you go infinite with colorless mana and slivers. use her.
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
I've been talked into trying out a counter-sliver build; I found it not too hard to perform the conversion, but I'd like to hear out your thoughts on the matter.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
your counterspells lose a lot of worth outside of a duel. even more so if multiple decks have blue/counters.
I think i only use hinder and maybe one other spell i can't think of atm. any counter that buries a general is good. the rest of my spell suite is target removal like vindicate, putrefy, mortify, maelstrom pulse.
edit: voidslime was the card i was thinking of. with 5 colors, i tried to put in spells that could do multiple things. having the a full set of duals and fetches makes it viable to run a lot multi colored cards.
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
Training grounds, Urza's Incubator are great cards which i also run in my deck.
When I feel I am losing board control and I need to board wipe I will play Ghostway, then any wipe card to get it back under my control. Since Ghostway is a instant, any board wipe a player plays, i will tutor for that card if not in hand.
I also run cards Crawlspace and Karmic Justice.
1 Sliver Overlord
Slivers
2 Basal Sliver
3 Cloudshredder Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver
5 Dormant Sliver
6 Galerider Sliver
7 Gemhide Sliver
8 Harmonic Sliver
9 Heart Sliver
10 Hibernation Sliver
11 Homing Sliver
12 Lavabelly Sliver
13 Manaweft Sliver
14 Necrotic Sliver
15 Psionic Sliver
16 Pulmonic Sliver
17 Quick Sliver
18 Root Sliver
19 Sedge Sliver
20 Sliver Queen
21 Sliver Hivelord
22 Sliver Legion
23 The First Sliver
Non Sliver Creatures
24 Biomancer's Familiar
25 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
26 Morophon, the Boundless
Instants
27 Cryptic Command
28 Eerie Interlude
29 Enlightened Tutor
30 Ghostway
31 Path to Exile
32 Swords to Plowshares
33 Vampiric Tutor
34 Bring to Light
35 Day of Judgement
36 Demonic Tutor
37 Farseek
38 Maelstrom Pulse
39 Nature's Lore
40 Patriarch's Bidding
41 Regrowth
42 Skyshroud Claim
43 Tooth and Nail
44 Vindicate
45 Wargate
Enchantments
46 Mana Echoes
47 Mirari's Wake
48 Pernicious Deed
49 Rhystic Study
50 Smothering Tithe
51 Sylvan Library
52 Training Grounds
Artifacts
53 Chromatic Lantern
54 Crucible of Worlds
55 Cryptic Gateway
56 Darksteel Ingot
57 Fellwar Stone
58 Mana Vault
59 Mind's Eye
60 Mox Diamond
61 Ratchet Bomb
62 Scroll Rack
63 Sensei's Divining Top
64 Sol Ring
Lands (37)
65 Arid Mesa
66 Badlands
67 Bayou
68 Blood Crypt
69 Breeding Pool
70 Cavern of Souls
71 Crystal Quarry
72 Flooded Strand
73 Forest
74 Godless Shrine
75 Hallowed Fountain
76 Island
77 Marsh Flats
78 Misty Rainforest
79 Mutavault
80 Overgrown Tomb
81 Plains
82 Plateau
83 Polluted Delta
84 Sacred Foundry
85 Savannah
86 Scrubland
87 Steam Vents
88 Strip Mine
89 Stomping Ground
90 Swamp
91 Taiga
92 Temple Garden
93 Tropical Island
94 Tundra
95 Underground Sea
96 Verdant Catacombs
97 Volcanic Island
98 Watery Grave
99 Windswept Heath
100 Wooded Foothills
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I wanted to discuss my new take on my deck, others decks, and slivers in general. Rambling, digression, and tangents ahead.
Thank you, to everyone that contributed to this thread. I think this has been the biggest discussion of any one sliver related EDH deck on this forum. My deck and how I play it are on another level thanks to all the contributions and ideas here.
The other day I realized how bad my deck was :D. I was trying to do way too many things at once and trying to cram in as many "good stuff" cards as I possibly could.
I think I had maybe 9-12 slivers in the deck. Most of the games I won, most of them were irrelevant to how I won. I would usually end up hitting a combo or finding a way to swing through with Sliver Overlord. The problem with that is, I either managed to pull that off game 1 or not at all. If I did get it on game 1, I would immediately be hated out the next game. If I didn't get off the ground on game 1, it never happened in another game.
I came to the conclusion that, even with five colors at my disposal, I can not do it all. I needed a more streamlined approach. I needed more resiliency. I needed more threat density. I needed less BS in my deck.
My deck has always been a work in progress. For a while though, I just became content and did not try to improve. Being able to blow out a 4-5 man game out of nowhere will do that to a person.
After taking some beatings in 1v1 where I'm always the focus, I knew my deck had fallen off. Things were not clicking. Things were not consistent enough.
In an attempt to get things to work, I broke it down.
What deck am I playing?
I realized that I was way to focused on my general rather than my deck. Granted that is a big part of EDH deck building, but with a tool-box type general, it is easy to get caught up and lost in the deck.
For players looking to invest in slivers, think about who you want to command your army.
Sliver Queen is your combo.
Sliver Legion is your voltron.
Sliver Overlord is your tool-box.
1v1: All three generals are viable. I would rate them 1.Queen 2.Legion 3.Overlord.
With Queen as your general you have one half (or one third) of your combo available. If you can find Mana Echoes fast enough and protect it, its a wrap. you are either going zerg them or if you have a Necrotic Sliver you can force them to scoop.
Sliver Legion, I wrote this guy off. I don't know why it didn't occur to me that hitting 21 general damage would easier with Legion, opposed to Overlord. I'm trying to flesh out a game plan, but it would be redundant to do so. Play your guys, give him evasion and swing.
Overlord can make things way more complicated than they have to be. He can make anything happen and thats where things get murky. Devise a plan going in or you won't get off the line fast enough and you end up getting blown out.
MP Again each general is viable, but I believe some have better value facing multiple opponents. 1.Overlord 2.Queen 3.Legion
Overlord likes to play it both ways. Multiplayer you need options. Being able to tutor up your combo Queen or buff Legion huge. This deck can get mana intensive. I would refrain from playing any cards (sans Legion and Queen) with CMC 5 or more.
Queen is probably the most fragile build to go with. She is easily enough disrupted in a 1v1 let alone a multiplayer setting. She can, however, go off and win a multiplayer game in a single turn. For that I put her higher than Legion.
Legion can hang against multiple opponents. Beware of getting to aggressive though. Alpha swings should be rare as they can cost you the game. This deck is also susceptible to folding after a board wipe.
____
No matter what, keep in mind that your General can and will become irrelevant at times. Don't panic. Slivers adapt, you can change your game play on the fly. In some games you will be forced to! Take comfort in the fact that your deck is flexible enough to do that.
Regardless, your choice you will raise some eyebrows and perhaps generate a groan amongst players. Some will know better than to think that your deck is just filled to the rafter with slivers. Others may just assume you need to be eliminated immediately. Be ready to draw heat when you sit down.
The Brood
My latest shell is starting to look like it was ripped from CounterSlivers. Definitely not as potent as this is a singleton format, but still threatening. I would recommend this as a starting point for new players.
1 Blade Sliver
1 Crystalline Sliver
1 Gemhide Sliver
1 Heart Sliver
1 Muscle Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Plated Sliver
1 Root Sliver
1 Sedge Sliver
1 Sinew Sliver
1 Winged Sliver
1 Sliver Queen
1 Sliver Overlord
*One of these will be your general :D.
There are also a few slivers that should be considered but they are not necessary. These guys can help get damage through, provide more evasion, generate card advantage, or offer another way to win.
1 Frenzy Sliver
1 Talon Sliver
1 Horned Sliver
1 Shadow Sliver
1 Hibernation Sliver
1 Opaline Sliver
1 Quick Sliver
1 Virulent Sliver
If building for 1v1, your Queen deck will run almost no other slivers. If the sliver isn't conducive to the combo it will likely be exempt from your list. For posterity, these are slivers I could see in the Queen Combo build.
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Heart Sliver
1 Gemhide Sliver
1 Acidic Sliver
1 Cautery Sliver
1 Basal Sliver
Landscaping
10 Dual Lands
10 Shock Lands
10 Fetch Lands
* 5-10 Other Lands
You're other lands are also a pretty standard affair but open to interpretation. Any of these lands might show up in a Sliver list.
1 City of Brass
1 Rupture Spire
1 Command Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Stripmine
1 Wasteland
1 Rishadan Port
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Mutavault
1 Shimmering Grotto
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
If you can fit some basics into your deck, do so. The mana base is fragile and easily disrupted by Blood Moon effects.
Also, if you are dedicated enough to work out your color ratios, you could straight up remove certain dual lands and fetch lands that don't offer as much value as another land. I've yet to do this myself but feel it is worth mentioning.
This is starting to feel like a primer. It is not. The rest of the deck probably has some choices that are clearly sub optimum or are just being tested out.
Relics
1 Mox Diamond
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Expedition Map
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sol Ring
1 Ivory Tower
1 Trusty Machete
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Darksteel Axe
1 Darksteel Ingot
If you're playing French rules, ditch your Sol Ring and Sensei's Divining Top.
Ivory Tower is currently being tested. If I can consistently counter balance life loss from Phyrexian Arena and Dark Confidant I'll probably leave it in.
The two equipments are being tested because they are quick to play and quick to equip. I think Swords might be too slow, or at least win more.
Chrome Mox isn't here because there are only two cards that cover all colors and you won't pitch them for a mana rock.
Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library
1 Mana Echoes
1 Phyrexian Arena
Past permanents, I think the rest of the deck is up in the air. I'm shifting towards strictly 1v1 play (official or french lists). Lots of spot removal, counter spells, and hand disruption. Just in case anyone is interested, here is the deck in its entirety at the moment.
My Deck
1 Sliver Overlord
Lands
10 Dual Lands
10 Shock lands
10 Fetch Lands
1 City of Brass
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Rupture Spire
1 Reflecting pool
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Creatures
1 Muscle Sliver
1 Sinew Sliver
1 Heart Sliver
1 Plated Sliver
1 Winged Sliver
1 Root Sliver
1 Sedge Sliver
1 Gemhide Sliver
1 Crystalline Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Sliver Legion
1 Sliver Queen
1 Eternal Witness
1 Trinket Mage
1 Dark Confidant
1 Birds Of Paradise
1 Clone
1 Mox Diamond
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Expedition Map
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sol Ring
1 Ivory Tower
1 Trusty Machete
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Darksteel Axe
1 Darksteel Ingot
Enchantments
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sylvan Library
1 Mana Echoes
1 Phyrexian Arena
Instants
1 Terminate
1 Hinder
1 Brainstorm
1 Remand
1 Mortify
1 Putrefy
1 Into the Roil
1 Go for the Throat
1 Rewind
1 Counterspell
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Memory Lapse
1 Miscalculation
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Mulch
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Preordain
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ponder
1 Duress
1 Hull Breach
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Reanimate
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 See Beyond
1 Vindicate
Jace
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
If you guys are still playing slivers, I'd like to hear from you!
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
I have my deck pretty much where I want it. I honestly haven't played it in a while. I've been playing other generals a bit more.
You dig a lot more than I do. I use ramp (for land types to pull duals) much more than you do. This allows me to combo off in 1 turn usually. I must admit getting training grounds on the board really helps that. I use a lot of tutor effects to do so.
My list isn't near as tightly honed I don't think. But I like to be surprised by my draws as seeing a lot of old cards and getting to play with them is what makes EDH fun for me.
That said, yes, people know the deck and hate on it to high heaven. It's usually an archenemy game from the get go. lol The fun part is still winning even when 3 people are gunning for you.
The deck does well in both 1v1 and Multiplayer.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I do indeed dig a lot. I don't trust the top deck. I use to run Top, Sylvan Library and Mirri's Guile. That turned out to be over kill and watered my deck down. Library is still in, but I am another loss away from dropping it and just running Top.
I also used to run a lot of ramp but decided it wasn't working for me. I've managed to mellow out the curve as well. Being able to produce 5 colors is usually enough. I left a few mana rocks and run Mulch in the deck just in case.
I can't remember what prompted me to do this, but I managed to cut out Mystical Tutor and Enlightened Tutor. They just didn't do it for me. Putting whatever I tutored up on the top and not in my hand just felt too slow. Vampiric Tutor gets a pass from me because it can get anything.
Training Grounds was another card I dropped. If I played it I drew heat. If I tutored it and had to reveal it, I was telegraphing my next move(s).
I feel like I should run more Clones, but I'm not willing to buy them :).
Gonna try to get some games in soon and report back.
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
You got me thinking with that huge pseudo-primer post of yours, Gref... I have more or less stuck to my current build for months on now; only swapped out a land to make room for Cavern of Souls. Me, I'm not a 1v1 player, and I'm used to getting flak whenever I play two cards in a row... Everyone here is just scared s**tless of slivers, even if they should fear powerhouses like Rafiq or Sharuum more. Even when they both are on the table. Even when either of them is winning or dominating.
*AHEM* But I digress. Again, I'm not for 1v1, so my criticism or advice would not be applicable IMO. Still, your deck reminds me of one of the Spetznaz--not an ounce of fat, rugged, and ruthlessly efficient. Almost control-ish in a way. Seems very deadly on a duel. I could take a page off your book, though... ditching Mystical Tutor for more spot removal does not seem like a bad idea.
I have little to contribute for your decklist, Danz, mostly because I have ran a similar build in the past (but not an identical one). I found I was trying to do everything at once, too, and in doing it got overextended and very vulnerable. So I stuck for a combo-ish approach with a Voltron backup plan, and crammed my build with countermeasures. Your play style may be what's making a difference, though... One of the most veteran players around mauled two different six-player pods with the same deck that saw me curbstomped four times in a row by the same players! (That, I admit, does not picture me favorably skill-wise...)
Since Gref has taken the pains to break down his choices by category, here's my take on each one
Brood:
I used to run Clone myself, but ditched it for Phantasmal Image, mostly because I tend to use it for legend removal.
Land base:
Relics:
- Pithing Needle is an awesome idea, I'll have to give that some thought
- At first glance, I thought, "why Ivory Tower when you can have a sliver with lifelink on the table?" Then again, it may not be as threatening.
Enchantments:
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
And I don't know how worried you are about life gain, but Essence Sliver might be kinda valuable to you.
Heroes and Villains Comics and Games
Watch "The Giant Sharkgate Chronicles"
Watch "Eating Made Easy"
I aim to combo out long before lifegain would have any effect.
I think I need a more ruthless meta to keep me honest. lol I feel like this deck can go in like 20 directions. The nice thing is because of that, I can deal with board wipes very well. Our meta is all about board wipes, so I just need to have Pulmonic Sliver out early or backup plans available.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB