Eggs just won a PT and is super cheap to build. It's going to be everywhere. How would you go about fixing this matchup? Watching the video it looks terrible.
I have GP in a month so whats this new Geralf's Messenger build looks like?is it consistent enough to be more better than the finks build? Or should I just stay with finks build...
It's mostly to race the unfair decks. And messenger is better than finks in the mirror. You sacrifice tree tops to play messenger.
Eggs just won a PT and is super cheap to build. It's going to be everywhere. How would you go about fixing this matchup? Watching the video it looks terrible.
Also having messengers instead of finks helps you race them. Plus deathrite shamans lets you play leylines on turn 3 if you draw one after your opener which is still respectable.
Eggs just won a PT and is super cheap to build. It's going to be everywhere. How would you go about fixing this matchup? Watching the video it looks terrible.
I want to point out something about Eggs, its really really hard to play the deck. If this deck is "everywhere" in May when GP Portland happens I will be very happy.
About 75%+ of the average GP attendee has absolutely nowhere near the skill required to pilot the deck on a high level. If they are willing to devote 100+ hours of solo gold-fishing to perfect their methods with the deck they have a chance but most won't do that.
Smarter players that want a "cheap" deck will play some budget version of infect that will give them a much greater chance at winning a round or two.
Also having messengers instead of finks helps you race them. Plus deathrite shamans lets you play leylines on turn 3 if you draw one after your opener which is still respectable.
The biggest issue with eggs is Leyline. Even at the expense of Tarmogoyf and Deathrite Shaman, I would consider switching grafdigger's cage for Relic of Progenitus, as it can't be stopped by Leylines.
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Can you please explain why Jund players have been fitting in Olivia Voldaren as a 1-of in the board lately, though? When I played her as a 1-of maindeck, I found she was pretty vulnerable to getting Bolted or otherwise removed immediately, and the deck generally couldn't wait until it hit 6 mana.
Also, can you please update some cards' meta-related descriptions? I doubt you play Vampire Nighthawk anymore, and Wild Nacatl is banned, yet still mentioned in the Kitchen Finks description.
Can you please explain why Jund players have been fitting in Olivia Voldaren as a 1-of in the board lately, though? When I played her as a 1-of maindeck, I found she was pretty vulnerable to getting Bolted or otherwise removed immediately, and the deck generally couldn't wait until it hit 6 mana.
Also, can you please update some cards' meta-related descriptions? I doubt you play Vampire Nighthawk anymore, and Wild Nacatl is banned, yet still mentioned in the Kitchen Finks description.
I try to keep up to date, but I don't play jund all that often, so I can't really say why some players would or wouldn't play Olivia. My general thoughts are that it's a "generally good" 4 drop that can help against decks like Affinity. *I edited the Finks section. I've had to edit out a lot of stuff from the original primer in here.. It originally had notes about beating 12post and how to use punishing fire..
As for Nighthawk, I don't play it anymore, but it's still not a bad card in Jund, and is still very strong against aggro decks.
So how does the jund vs. jund mirror work, especially after sideboarding? From watching the Pro Tour it looks like Mages, Voldaren, and Batterskull head to the maindeck (plus maybe ancient grudge) but it's not obvious what's coming out and why.
So how does the jund vs. jund mirror work, especially after sideboarding? From watching the Pro Tour it looks like Mages, Voldaren, and Batterskull head to the maindeck (plus maybe ancient grudge) but it's not obvious what's coming out and why.
Threat density. Most jund mirros come down to who has more threats, or who has the unanswerable threat. That's why liliana and usually inquisition of kozilek and blightning/bolt come out, in favor of more proactive cards. Then you hope to simply draw better than the opponent.
Hi every one, I'll go for a GP this week end and I will dodge the first 3 round thanks to the GPT. I'm gonna play jund at this event and I wonder if is it worth running Leyline of the Void in our side board, since it hose perfectly eggs, storm, pyromancer ascension, boremoundos and other fringe build like zombie dredgevine etc. However i don't think it does the job against pod like cage would do, it stops melira/viscera/finks/redcape but it became a B plan for pod decks these day.
I also thought that almost 90% of the players who will choose to play eggs to this event won't be able to play it properly. Plus we can catch them up on triggers they forget to announce or something like that.
Do you guys thinks it is worth still running land destruction in the SB, I personally think that tron in this current meta will not be a huge part of the field. I figured out scapeshift to be more consistent and prepared against the field with countermagic. And I don't think tron to be fast enough to beat eggs before it combos off. Slaugther game on emrakul then karn might be enough ?
My set up main deck is 4 liliana 1 jund charm 2 inquisition of kozilek and 3 thoughtseize. I put 4th finks in side because the deathrite manabase is more painfull plus more seize than inquisition, it can become dangerous against burn. I also like the card in jund mirror. Since I have 1 jund charm MD I have few choices, I can go 3 inquisition MD or -1 Jund charm SB to add something else like a baloth or a second Olivia.
Thought ?
PS : forgiving me if i made grammaticals mistakes i'm not an english native !
I wouldnt play Leyline of the Void, Surgical Extraction works better for the purposes you want, even Eggs.
I also don't like Batterskull, it hurts with Bob and I don't believe it will help when you face either the Mirror or Burn, stick to Obstinate Baloth.
I always play Sowing Salt or Fulminator Mage, even if Tron is abscent I don't like the idea of an auto-loss, Slaughter Games doenst hurt them too much, maybe those lists with lots of Wurmcoils and one Emrakul, but those lists are overall weak compared to the ones that plays more diverse threats like Ulamog, Mindslaver or Sundering Titan.
Here my SB, note that the lack of sweepers is justified by the MB
I've seen a lot of Jund decks and sideboards. I've been playtesting countless hours as well as going to tournements in my area. In the last few months I've taken 1st in almost all the events I've been in. Just last night I took second because I played people with a lower win percentage that 1st.
When I saw Abrupt Decay and Deathrite Shaman, I scooped up a foil playset of each. Sure I was going to run 3 or 4 of each in my jund. It came down to 1 shaman MD 2 in SB. Then ended up cutting them altogether.
Abrupt Decay is just flat out better than Maelstrom Pulse, and I can argue that all day.
Here is the list I play and have had great success with.
There any number of different evolutionary directions where Waste Not can go. Would it be O.K. if we take it out of the wrapper, and play with it for a little while? If and when it falls apart, we collectively promise that you can say, "I told you so".
Jund VS...
Control- Unfortunetly for control decks, Jund needs no help smashing then. You have manlands that they can't counter or wrath of god, BB Elf's cascade that triggers even if they counter BB Elf. Inquisition and Thoughtseize to mess then up from the start and now we even have Abrupt Decay to take out Delver or any other small threats without worrying about a counter.
SB
In - 2 Fulinator Mage and any applicable Seal, Grudge, Decay.
Out - 2 Finks and another finks, Huntmaster or Terminate.
Red Deck Wins- you WANT a finks in your hand VS RDW, but not a must have. An Inquisition and Bolt can slow them down a lot. Play smart and you should be ok, but a rough matchup. If you have Decay or Terminate, let Vexing resolve then tag it on their end step. If they toss a Guide down, let them swing, see if you get a free land, then toast him before you take two. Until you take control of the board play defensive. Hellspark Elemental and other such hasters can cost you the game if you don't play defensive at first using goyf, finks and even Bob to block.
SB
In- 2 Pyroclasm, 1 Decay and if they are splashing maybe Fulminators.
Out- 2 Bobs, 1 Liliana maybe more of each.
Sidenote, Thoughseize does tag you for 2 but most of the time gets a bolt or creature that would have diner more than 2
(by request)
Second Breakfast (eggs)- In this matchup you HAVE to disrupt them going off. Inquisition or thoughtseize their Reshape or sunrise/faiths. Decay their artifacts asap. Liliana +1 every turn and hope game 1 goes your way.
SB
In- 1 Decay, 2 Jund Charm, 2 Rakdos Charm, 2 Ancient Grudge, 2 seal of Primordium.
Out- 4 Lightning Bolt, 2 Terminate, 3 Finks.
Taking out finks and leaving in Olivia and Huntmaster allows your BB Elf to hit something you want. Another thing to note, hold a charm (either) and when they cast the first sunrise/faiths, zap their GY.
There any number of different evolutionary directions where Waste Not can go. Would it be O.K. if we take it out of the wrapper, and play with it for a little while? If and when it falls apart, we collectively promise that you can say, "I told you so".
I found that my Deathrite build had too few threats with only 4 Bob, 4 Goyf, 4 Deathrite, 4 BBE, and 4 manlands. I'd probably slot in 2 more threats over the Blightnings. Given his mana base, I'd make them Kitchen Finks.
Abrupt Decay is just flat out better than Maelstrom Pulse, and I can argue that all day.
Except when Yuuya had a Leyline in front of his face. I agree A. Decay needs to be played but I think we should be running atleast a single pulse or two to answer leyline. In the main or sb of some sort. Yuuya could have won that tourny had he not been 100% cold to leyline.
Decay hits cards which Pulse still deals with. Honestly, most of what we want Decay for also dies to Bolt and Terminate. There are match ups, as I mentioned, where it gets boarded in, but decks like Delver and merfolk are decks that I smash anyway. I want the help vs Tron and Pod and the mirror, because a lot of Jund decks are main decking hate cards for the mirror- I was running Olivia- I played against Jund with main deck Batterskull!
Pulse is a much better main deck card, because it is broad and always useful. Decay is more niche- and we use other cards to deal with those same threats- Bolt, Terminate and Inquisition do the job well enough in my experience.
Abrupt decay is really great against delver decks because they like to use spell snare and spell pierce against our removal...so an uncounterable removal that blows up their stuff is optimal against delver. Besides merfolk, thats about the only deck you really need abrupt decay for. Otherwise, pulse is great.
Grafdigger's Cage and/or Torpor Orb are your best answers. Cage shuts off their tutoring and Orb shuts off the deck completely but allows then to tutor up answers like Qasali Pridemage. I generally do a 2/2 split between the two.
Actually, I have found Damping Matrix to be quite effective against them. It protects itself from pridemage, shuts down pod, and prevents them from comboing off if they naturally draw the combo. The only thing it does not do is slow down their aggro. But if you don't have to worry about them comboing you can deal with their aggro like any other aggro deck.
Lingering Souls has made it into multiple Top 8 Jund decklists in GP Chicago. It seems like a superb meta decision--it blocks Infect and Affinity all day, taunts Liliana of the Veil, and holds back all sorts of flying creatures from Insectile Aberration to Restoration Angel. One concern is that it seems a little Deathrite Shaman-weak. (And another concern is that it obviously requires a white splash.)
Spirit Jund dominated. 3 in top 16 and 2 in the Finals. It may be vulnerable to Shaman but it never came into play. WITH Shaman T2 Souls is so powerful. I think Jund should adopt this build for the meta.
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[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
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[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
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It's mostly to race the unfair decks. And messenger is better than finks in the mirror. You sacrifice tree tops to play messenger.
Look at Ochoa's deck list
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptrtr12/top8decks
You have to vary your grave yard hate between leyline of the void, relic of progenitus and jund charm.
Also having messengers instead of finks helps you race them. Plus deathrite shamans lets you play leylines on turn 3 if you draw one after your opener which is still respectable.
I want to point out something about Eggs, its really really hard to play the deck. If this deck is "everywhere" in May when GP Portland happens I will be very happy.
About 75%+ of the average GP attendee has absolutely nowhere near the skill required to pilot the deck on a high level. If they are willing to devote 100+ hours of solo gold-fishing to perfect their methods with the deck they have a chance but most won't do that.
Smarter players that want a "cheap" deck will play some budget version of infect that will give them a much greater chance at winning a round or two.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
The biggest issue with eggs is Leyline. Even at the expense of Tarmogoyf and Deathrite Shaman, I would consider switching grafdigger's cage for Relic of Progenitus, as it can't be stopped by Leylines.
Can you please explain why Jund players have been fitting in Olivia Voldaren as a 1-of in the board lately, though? When I played her as a 1-of maindeck, I found she was pretty vulnerable to getting Bolted or otherwise removed immediately, and the deck generally couldn't wait until it hit 6 mana.
Also, can you please update some cards' meta-related descriptions? I doubt you play Vampire Nighthawk anymore, and Wild Nacatl is banned, yet still mentioned in the Kitchen Finks description.
I try to keep up to date, but I don't play jund all that often, so I can't really say why some players would or wouldn't play Olivia. My general thoughts are that it's a "generally good" 4 drop that can help against decks like Affinity. *I edited the Finks section. I've had to edit out a lot of stuff from the original primer in here.. It originally had notes about beating 12post and how to use punishing fire..
As for Nighthawk, I don't play it anymore, but it's still not a bad card in Jund, and is still very strong against aggro decks.
Threat density. Most jund mirros come down to who has more threats, or who has the unanswerable threat. That's why liliana and usually inquisition of kozilek and blightning/bolt come out, in favor of more proactive cards. Then you hope to simply draw better than the opponent.
I wouldnt play Leyline of the Void, Surgical Extraction works better for the purposes you want, even Eggs.
I also don't like Batterskull, it hurts with Bob and I don't believe it will help when you face either the Mirror or Burn, stick to Obstinate Baloth.
I always play Sowing Salt or Fulminator Mage, even if Tron is abscent I don't like the idea of an auto-loss, Slaughter Games doenst hurt them too much, maybe those lists with lots of Wurmcoils and one Emrakul, but those lists are overall weak compared to the ones that plays more diverse threats like Ulamog, Mindslaver or Sundering Titan.
Here my SB, note that the lack of sweepers is justified by the MB
Boring...
Modern
WGBJunk:Feel the Rhinos WGB
RWUAmerican Taxes RWU
EDH
XKarn and the Living StaxX RETIRED
GWURoon of The Hidden RealmGWU
When I saw Abrupt Decay and Deathrite Shaman, I scooped up a foil playset of each. Sure I was going to run 3 or 4 of each in my jund. It came down to 1 shaman MD 2 in SB. Then ended up cutting them altogether.
Abrupt Decay is just flat out better than Maelstrom Pulse, and I can argue that all day.
Here is the list I play and have had great success with.
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
CREATURE
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
4 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Liliana of the Veil
LAND
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Copperline Gorge
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Twilight Mire
1 Graven Cairns
3 Treetop Village
2 Raging Ravine
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Jund Charm
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Pyroclasm
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Sowing Salts
Waste Not http://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/24857 It's now below my predicted $3 / $10 foil.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Evelyn Beatrice Hall
If I've offended you; don't take things so personal, grow up or you were in the wrong and I called you on your BS.
DECKS
Modern
BURGrixis TwinBUR
BRGJundBRG
WBTokensWB
URMerfolkUR
BDiscardB
WRControlWR
WBGMelira PodWBG
WGAura HexproofWG
URStormUR
WUBRGTribal ZooWUBRG
Affinity
WBRSquee's PoxWBR
WUGEnduring IdealWUG
WUErayo's QuestWU
UBRVile WizardsUBR
UGPolymorphUG
Legacy
BReanimatorB
GRCharbelcherGR
WUBRGRector Omni-ShowWUBRG
UDredgeU
BRGJundBRG
Jund VS...
Control- Unfortunetly for control decks, Jund needs no help smashing then. You have manlands that they can't counter or wrath of god, BB Elf's cascade that triggers even if they counter BB Elf. Inquisition and Thoughtseize to mess then up from the start and now we even have Abrupt Decay to take out Delver or any other small threats without worrying about a counter.
SB
In - 2 Fulinator Mage and any applicable Seal, Grudge, Decay.
Out - 2 Finks and another finks, Huntmaster or Terminate.
Red Deck Wins- you WANT a finks in your hand VS RDW, but not a must have. An Inquisition and Bolt can slow them down a lot. Play smart and you should be ok, but a rough matchup. If you have Decay or Terminate, let Vexing resolve then tag it on their end step. If they toss a Guide down, let them swing, see if you get a free land, then toast him before you take two. Until you take control of the board play defensive. Hellspark Elemental and other such hasters can cost you the game if you don't play defensive at first using goyf, finks and even Bob to block.
SB
In- 2 Pyroclasm, 1 Decay and if they are splashing maybe Fulminators.
Out- 2 Bobs, 1 Liliana maybe more of each.
Sidenote, Thoughseize does tag you for 2 but most of the time gets a bolt or creature that would have diner more than 2
(by request)
Second Breakfast (eggs)- In this matchup you HAVE to disrupt them going off. Inquisition or thoughtseize their Reshape or sunrise/faiths. Decay their artifacts asap. Liliana +1 every turn and hope game 1 goes your way.
SB
In- 1 Decay, 2 Jund Charm, 2 Rakdos Charm, 2 Ancient Grudge, 2 seal of Primordium.
Out- 4 Lightning Bolt, 2 Terminate, 3 Finks.
Taking out finks and leaving in Olivia and Huntmaster allows your BB Elf to hit something you want. Another thing to note, hold a charm (either) and when they cast the first sunrise/faiths, zap their GY.
I'll do more matchups later
Waste Not http://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/24857 It's now below my predicted $3 / $10 foil.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Evelyn Beatrice Hall
If I've offended you; don't take things so personal, grow up or you were in the wrong and I called you on your BS.
DECKS
Modern
BURGrixis TwinBUR
BRGJundBRG
WBTokensWB
URMerfolkUR
BDiscardB
WRControlWR
WBGMelira PodWBG
WGAura HexproofWG
URStormUR
WUBRGTribal ZooWUBRG
Affinity
WBRSquee's PoxWBR
WUGEnduring IdealWUG
WUErayo's QuestWU
UBRVile WizardsUBR
UGPolymorphUG
Legacy
BReanimatorB
GRCharbelcherGR
WUBRGRector Omni-ShowWUBRG
UDredgeU
BRGJundBRG
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
24 lands
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
16 creatures
2 Blightning
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Terminate
3 Thoughtseize
16 other spells
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 planeswalkers
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Batterskull
2 Creeping Corrosion
1 Darkblast
1 Flame Slash
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Spellskite
1 Thoughtseize
15 sideboard cards
The list with which Jeremy Dezani won GP Lyon. I find it interesting that he forwent the Messenger/Finks choice altogether. What are your thoughts?
Except when Yuuya had a Leyline in front of his face. I agree A. Decay needs to be played but I think we should be running atleast a single pulse or two to answer leyline. In the main or sb of some sort. Yuuya could have won that tourny had he not been 100% cold to leyline.
Abrupt decay is really great against delver decks because they like to use spell snare and spell pierce against our removal...so an uncounterable removal that blows up their stuff is optimal against delver. Besides merfolk, thats about the only deck you really need abrupt decay for. Otherwise, pulse is great.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Actually, I have found Damping Matrix to be quite effective against them. It protects itself from pridemage, shuts down pod, and prevents them from comboing off if they naturally draw the combo. The only thing it does not do is slow down their aggro. But if you don't have to worry about them comboing you can deal with their aggro like any other aggro deck.
Lingering Souls has made it into multiple Top 8 Jund decklists in GP Chicago. It seems like a superb meta decision--it blocks Infect and Affinity all day, taunts Liliana of the Veil, and holds back all sorts of flying creatures from Insectile Aberration to Restoration Angel. One concern is that it seems a little Deathrite Shaman-weak. (And another concern is that it obviously requires a white splash.)
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
Lingering souls>kitchen finks>gerlaf's messenger
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.