@mdilthey: I don't see much benefit to playing Chandra.
At best, you copy a spell for four. Which, unless that spell is Cruel Ultimatum, is too much to pay for a Twincast. I'm not saying that you should be playing Twincast instead (although Twincast is better because it can't be made worthless by a Lightning Bolt or Firespout), but paying four to copy a spell just doesn't seem worth it to me, and unless you want to deal one damage to a creature/player (and that one damage won't be killing many creatures this format), that's all you're going to be doing, because it'll just get killed by creatures/removal the next turn.
I am really not a fan on chandra either. The only planes walker i would consider for this deck would be:
1 elspeth knight errant
and MAYBE ajani vengeant
If the new garruks mana cost was a bit more forgiving i would consider it but 3 green is way too hard on the manabase.
I am really not a fan on chandra either. The only planes walker i would consider for this deck would be:
1 elspeth knight errant
and MAYBE ajani vengeant
If the new garruks mana cost was a bit more forgiving i would consider it but 3 green is way too hard on the manabase.
planeswalkers are kinda bad in a deck that doesn't run blockers.
also I fixed that space issue Burstinatrix
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
thanks for your help finishing the primer. I had just about ran out of patience for it.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I believe my list is approaching optimal, I am still tinkering with it.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I am really not a fan on chandra either. The only planes walker i would consider for this deck would be:
1 elspeth knight errant
and MAYBE ajani vengeant
If the new garruks mana cost was a bit more forgiving i would consider it but 3 green is way too hard on the manabase.
If he was 2 Green I would bite the bullet and play vivids by god. 3/3 Beasts are nothing to talk smack about. PLUS if you resolve a grave titan garruk becomes draw 6 cards. Do want.
planeswalkers are kinda bad in a deck that doesn't run blockers.
also I fixed that space issue Burstinatrix
The real reason planeswalkers are bad in this format is because of punishing fire. Control decks with punishing fire don't care at all about planeswalkers. Otherwise I would certainly have elspeth in my deck.
If he was 2 Green I would bite the bullet and play vivids by god. 3/3 Beasts are nothing to talk smack about. PLUS if you resolve a grave titan garruk becomes draw 6 cards. Do want.
Thats what i was thinking. But at slipknot both planeswalkers i mentioned have ways of protecting them self that is why they were seeing play a lot in some 5 color builds. Im not saying i will play any but if i were to play any planeswalkers it would be those two.
I would almost certainly play Ajani Vengeant before Elspeth, simply because Ajani lends himself more to a Control archetype and does you a lot of good in the top matchups (Zoo, Jund, 12-post). Plus, his Ult is just crippling.
That being said, I've tested both and found them to be suboptimal. If you run tons of ways to protect Ajani, he might be worth it. If Jace were still legal, I would most certainly be playing All-American Superfriends. Speculation aside, though, I don't think either is worth it as more than a 1-of, simply because you lose a huge investment to a Maelstrom Pulse or an O-Ring.
Genuine question time. On the front page leyline of sanctity is in the sideboard. What matchup is that for?
DaGarver. I can't agree with that. Elspeth is the second best planeswalker ever printed. Plus superfriends has to tapout to do stuff. Combo decks would have way too much of a field day against it.
Genuine question time. On the front page leyline of sanctity is in the sideboard. What matchup is that for?
DaGarver. I can't agree with that. Elspeth is the second best planeswalker ever printed. Plus superfriends has to tapout to do stuff. Combo decks would have way too much of a field day against it.
@Leyline: I'm pretty sure it's for Burn/RDW.
Anyway, reposting my current list for further critique.
Thats what i was thinking. But at slipknot both planeswalkers i mentioned have ways of protecting them self that is why they were seeing play a lot in some 5 color builds. Im not saying i will play any but if i were to play any planeswalkers it would be those two.
modern is a different kind of beast. I love ajani vengeant and I ran it back in the day, but in this format planeswalkers are hit or miss. My testing has shown that they are quite far from optimal.
I would almost certainly play Ajani Vengeant before Elspeth, simply because Ajani lends himself more to a Control archetype and does you a lot of good in the top matchups (Zoo, Jund, 12-post). Plus, his Ult is just crippling.
That being said, I've tested both and found them to be suboptimal. If you run tons of ways to protect Ajani, he might be worth it. If Jace were still legal, I would most certainly be playing All-American Superfriends. Speculation aside, though, I don't think either is worth it as more than a 1-of, simply because you lose a huge investment to a Maelstrom Pulse or an O-Ring.
I agree, sometimes 1 for 1s can be highly one sided.
Genuine question time. On the front page leyline of sanctity is in the sideboard. What matchup is that for?
Dropping it will win the game against burn, and render half of RDWs worthless. It is also great against jund because their lightning bolts, thoughtseizes, and blightnings are useless when its in play. This also weakens bloodbraid elf considerable.
Edit: added a general strategy section, and I plan on adding match specific strategy later.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
DaGarver. I can't agree with that. Elspeth is the second best planeswalker ever printed. Plus superfriends has to tapout to do stuff. Combo decks would have way too much of a field day against it.
While Elspeth might be the second best planeswalker ever printed, I wouldn't play her in any variant of this deck. The only one I can see myself legitimately running is banned.
While Elspeth might be the second best planeswalker ever printed, I wouldn't play her in any variant of this deck. The only one I can see myself legitimately running is banned.
If punishing fire was not in the format. I would certainly play elspeth over ajani. Whenever I pick planeswalkers for a control deck. I always think about which planeswalker would win in a fight. Elspeth beats everything except for garruk, karn and bolas in a straight up fight. I remember in extended I played 5cc with 3 jace and 1 elspeth and I watched as elspeth single handedly won me more games than cruel ultimatum.
Made a general strategy section for the primer. I also might work on matchup specific strategy. If you have any tips for matchups post them here. It will save me a buttload of work.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Zoo: basically if you bolt or path atleast 1 creature on turn 1 or 2 and then follow up with turn 3/4 firspout/damnation. You win.
Green 12 post: if you have action in your hand(boss creature) don't be afraid to cryptic bouncing a land and drawing a card to set them back a turn. Try to make your cruel or titan or whatever happen before the first titan derps you
Affinity: same as zoo only slightly more complicated because of vault skirge and master of etherium. Oh and ravager is pretty nutty but once again bolt saves the day. Also if you play punishing fire this deck doesn't exist to you
U post: concede game 1(lol), board in 4 mindbreak traps and a logic knot and literally wait the game out(this takes less time if you have punishing fire combo). Most lists only play like 6 boss monsters and around 2 condescends(this is the only counter you give a **** about) when you get to like a billion mana bait them with eot teferi. Lose the counter war but try to get them to use the condescends. Now cruel them. You may be asking yourself how much is a billion mana? Enough mana to cast cruel ultimatum and keep up a mindbreak trap/cryptic command or two. If you play teachings this is even easier because you can just tutor for the trap and they don't really want to waste counters on a card you can use twice.
Living end: hope you have more than a mana leak game 1.
sideboard 3 relic of progenitus and win.
The only red decks I've played smashed me, but they weren't burn. On guy pplayed turn 1 koth and blood moon. I was like wtf.
Jund: slower version of zoo. In extended this match up was basically a pure attrition war, I would imagine it is exactly the same here except we now have punishing aka everything except for goyf just dies.
Oh I forgot I play sowing salt aswell and it seems pretty powerful
What am I forgetting?
Zoo: basically if you bolt or path atleast 1 creature on turn 1 or 2 and then follow up with turn 3/4 firspout/damnation. You win.
Green 12 post: if you have action in your hand(boss creature) don't be afraid to cryptic bouncing a land and drawing a card to set them back a turn. Try to make your cruel or titan or whatever happen before the first titan derps you
Affinity: same as zoo only slightly more complicated because of vault skirge and master of etherium. Oh and ravager is pretty nutty but once again bolt saves the day. Also if you play punishing fire this deck doesn't exist to you
U post: concede game 1(lol), board in 4 mindbreak traps and a logic knot and literally wait the game out(this takes less time if you have punishing fire combo). Most lists only play like 6 boss monsters and around 2 condescends(this is the only counter you give a **** about) when you get to like a billion mana bait them with eot teferi. Lose the counter war but try to get them to use the condescends. Now cruel them. You may be asking yourself how much is a billion mana? Enough mana to cast cruel ultimatum and keep up a mindbreak trap/cryptic command or two. If you play teachings this is even easier because you can just tutor for the trap and they don't really want to waste counters on a card you can use twice.
Living end: hope you have more than a mana leak game 1.
sideboard 3 relic of progenitus and win.
What am I forgetting?
I got some ideas for Post in general. A lot of sideboard slots, although I really don't need these for most deck. leyline of sanctity is the only thing I have for RDW/burn and jund.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Thomas Jefferson
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At best, you copy a spell for four. Which, unless that spell is Cruel Ultimatum, is too much to pay for a Twincast. I'm not saying that you should be playing Twincast instead (although Twincast is better because it can't be made worthless by a Lightning Bolt or Firespout), but paying four to copy a spell just doesn't seem worth it to me, and unless you want to deal one damage to a creature/player (and that one damage won't be killing many creatures this format), that's all you're going to be doing, because it'll just get killed by creatures/removal the next turn.
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
1 elspeth knight errant
and MAYBE
ajani vengeant
If the new garruks mana cost was a bit more forgiving i would consider it but 3 green is way too hard on the manabase.
planeswalkers are kinda bad in a deck that doesn't run blockers.
also I fixed that space issue Burstinatrix
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
thanks for your help finishing the primer. I had just about ran out of patience for it.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
No problem.
Let me know if you need any help in the future.
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
If he was 2 Green I would bite the bullet and play vivids by god. 3/3 Beasts are nothing to talk smack about. PLUS if you resolve a grave titan garruk becomes draw 6 cards. Do want.
The real reason planeswalkers are bad in this format is because of punishing fire. Control decks with punishing fire don't care at all about planeswalkers. Otherwise I would certainly have elspeth in my deck.
Post it up?
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
Thats what i was thinking. But at slipknot both planeswalkers i mentioned have ways of protecting them self that is why they were seeing play a lot in some 5 color builds. Im not saying i will play any but if i were to play any planeswalkers it would be those two.
That being said, I've tested both and found them to be suboptimal. If you run tons of ways to protect Ajani, he might be worth it. If Jace were still legal, I would most certainly be playing All-American Superfriends. Speculation aside, though, I don't think either is worth it as more than a 1-of, simply because you lose a huge investment to a Maelstrom Pulse or an O-Ring.
Legacy: UB(R/G) Storm UB(R/G)
Vintage: UBG Gush Storm UBG
DaGarver. I can't agree with that. Elspeth is the second best planeswalker ever printed. Plus superfriends has to tapout to do stuff. Combo decks would have way too much of a field day against it.
@Leyline: I'm pretty sure it's for Burn/RDW.
Anyway, reposting my current list for further critique.
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Grave Titan
4 Cryptic Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Esper Charm
4 Rune Snag
3 Path to Exile
3 Firespout
2 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Damnation
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Cascade Bluffs
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Marsh Flats
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
Its on the OP under sample list.
modern is a different kind of beast. I love ajani vengeant and I ran it back in the day, but in this format planeswalkers are hit or miss. My testing has shown that they are quite far from optimal.
I agree, sometimes 1 for 1s can be highly one sided.
Edit: added a general strategy section, and I plan on adding match specific strategy later.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
While Elspeth might be the second best planeswalker ever printed, I wouldn't play her in any variant of this deck. The only one I can see myself legitimately running is banned.
Legacy: UB(R/G) Storm UB(R/G)
Vintage: UBG Gush Storm UBG
I will always play 4 crytic command in a format like this. Especially when wizards said they didn't want turn 3 kills.
If punishing fire was not in the format. I would certainly play elspeth over ajani. Whenever I pick planeswalkers for a control deck. I always think about which planeswalker would win in a fight. Elspeth beats everything except for garruk, karn and bolas in a straight up fight. I remember in extended I played 5cc with 3 jace and 1 elspeth and I watched as elspeth single handedly won me more games than cruel ultimatum.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Green 12 post: if you have action in your hand(boss creature) don't be afraid to cryptic bouncing a land and drawing a card to set them back a turn. Try to make your cruel or titan or whatever happen before the first titan derps you
Affinity: same as zoo only slightly more complicated because of vault skirge and master of etherium. Oh and ravager is pretty nutty but once again bolt saves the day. Also if you play punishing fire this deck doesn't exist to you
U post: concede game 1(lol), board in 4 mindbreak traps and a logic knot and literally wait the game out(this takes less time if you have punishing fire combo). Most lists only play like 6 boss monsters and around 2 condescends(this is the only counter you give a **** about) when you get to like a billion mana bait them with eot teferi. Lose the counter war but try to get them to use the condescends. Now cruel them. You may be asking yourself how much is a billion mana? Enough mana to cast cruel ultimatum and keep up a mindbreak trap/cryptic command or two. If you play teachings this is even easier because you can just tutor for the trap and they don't really want to waste counters on a card you can use twice.
Living end: hope you have more than a mana leak game 1.
sideboard 3 relic of progenitus and win.
The only red decks I've played smashed me, but they weren't burn. On guy pplayed turn 1 koth and blood moon. I was like wtf.
Jund: slower version of zoo. In extended this match up was basically a pure attrition war, I would imagine it is exactly the same here except we now have punishing aka everything except for goyf just dies.
Oh I forgot I play sowing salt aswell and it seems pretty powerful
What am I forgetting?
I got some ideas for Post in general. A lot of sideboard slots, although I really don't need these for most deck. leyline of sanctity is the only thing I have for RDW/burn and jund.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson