I want to build a modern Zoo deck to playtest against other decks I'm building. I searched the Established Competitive Zoo thread and there's lots of variations and also that entire thread as whole doesn't seem up to date and users don't seem to post there often.
What I'm looking for is someone to point me in the right direction to find a Zoo list that would be a good representation of a common Zoo build that would be good to test my other decks against. I was thinking of just building the Naya build without the Punishing Grove combo and without blue but having not really played a modern Zoo deck, I don't know if that would be a good representation.
Anyone have any lists or links to lists that would be good?
Also, I'm not looking for any budget lists...I have all the cards including Goyfs.
Honestly it really depends lol. I think right now the best list are the ones built to beat other zoo decks. Living end is going to start seeing some play, and after that a the best list might splash blue for a few unified wills or mana leaks.
This is an old zoo list that won Pt austin a few years back which was the extended format that shared essentially the same card pool we have now. It probably needs a bit of work, but it is probably a good place to start.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
You should test against "Big Zoo" with Elspeth, Punishing Fire and maybe counterspells, and test against "Domain Zoo", which is much more aggressive and runs Dark Confidant along with Tribal Flames
1. A zoo player asking to know which is the best zoo deck so that he can play it.
2. A non zoo player asking to know which is the best zoo deck so that he can playtest against it.
In both situations, both persons are seeking the exact same thing. A correct response to 1. should be indistinguishable from a correct response to 2.
So, how do we know that you're not secretly a zoo player, masquerading as a non-zoo player. How do we know that you're not just going to use these lists to build yourself a zoo deck of your own? Then, you would have stolen information under false pretenses. That's like taking information over to the dark side. It's a serious offence you know.
I pray that you are not with the dark side. But I can't help thinking that if you were with the dark side, this is exactly what you would be doing...
My Zoo build has been leaning toward a Naya version of RDW lately, including the Guides. Splash a lil blue for Unified Will, Spell Pierce and Bant Charm and you're golden.
1. A zoo player asking to know which is the best zoo deck so that he can play it.
2. A non zoo player asking to know which is the best zoo deck so that he can playtest against it.
As much as your full post made me chuckle, I felt like answering this question.
#1 is simply the most popular zoo deck, the one that he will encounter the most often. #1 is your stereotypical zoo deck, with no weird shenaniganry or off-the-wall maindecks like Ancient Grudge or something.
#2 is the zoo deck that will actually do the best, and will be tuned to fight the current metagame at a specific event. #2 will vary from tournament to tournament, but if you're looking for a baseline, #1 is what you want.
And I wish I could help OP, bt I can't. I play Burn, so every other deck in the format looks sort of similar. There's this difficulty in telling the difference between the charred corpse of a Welshman and the charred corpse of a Russian.
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My main concern with this list is noble heiracrch is used to what ends? your not playing anything expensive except for 2 Ranger of Eos which is honestly worse than gideon or elspeth. That list would still be a decent benchmark since your not planning on playing it. Zoo is a deck that can literally run all 5 colors, be the best aggro deck in the format, be built to destroy one type of deck be it control, aggro, or combo.
We could have a whole entire meta of nothing but zoo variants, its essentially happened before even though that format had more powerful combo decks and control existed in it's less subjective form.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
1. A zoo player asking to know which is the best zoo deck so that he can play it.
2. A non zoo player asking to know which is the best zoo deck so that he can playtest against it.
In both situations, both persons are seeking the exact same thing. A correct response to 1. should be indistinguishable from a correct response to 2.
So, how do we know that you're not secretly a zoo player, masquerading as a non-zoo player. How do we know that you're not just going to use these lists to build yourself a zoo deck of your own? Then, you would have stolen information under false pretenses. That's like taking information over to the dark side. It's a serious offence you know.
I pray that you are not with the dark side. But I can't help thinking that if you were with the dark side, this is exactly what you would be doing...
I can honestly say I've never played a Zoo deck in any format. I have however built Zoo decks to playtest against other decks in a wide variety of formats.
Or maybe I'm lying and am with the "dark side." But if I was, I'd just go on the internet and find a decklist anyway. Nothing's a secret anymore
As much as your full post made me chuckle, I felt like answering this question.
#1 is simply the most popular zoo deck, the one that he will encounter the most often. #1 is your stereotypical zoo deck, with no weird shenaniganry or off-the-wall maindecks like Ancient Grudge or something.
#2 is the zoo deck that will actually do the best, and will be tuned to fight the current metagame at a specific event. #2 will vary from tournament to tournament, but if you're looking for a baseline, #1 is what you want.
And I wish I could help OP, bt I can't. I play Burn, so every other deck in the format looks sort of similar. There's this difficulty in telling the difference between the charred corpse of a Welshman and the charred corpse of a Russian.
This is exactly what I'm getting at. There is a difference between the two. Imagine it like this: I'm a tourist in New York City and I ask the mayor what the best places are to visit that will give me the most accurate impression of what NYC is like. He'll tell me to go see the Statue of Liberty, Empire State Building, Central Park, etc, etc. But if I ask any person who's lived there their whole life, they'd give me an entirely different list of the "cooler" places to see. They'd give me the newest, coolest "tech" that NYC has to offer.
So for the purpose of this thread, I want the mayor's suggestions. Who on MTG Salvation is the Mayor of Zoo? Who's the Zoo-Keeper???
Slipknot, I'm looking at you especially...you posted a list with BSA in it?!?! Come on man....
EDIT: since writing this I see Slipknot had chimed in with more info...my bad, sir.
I can honestly say I've never played a Zoo deck in any format. I have however built Zoo decks to playtest against other decks in a wide variety of formats.
Or maybe I'm lying and am with the "dark side." But if I was, I'd just go on the internet and find a decklist anyway. Nothing's a secret anymore
This is exactly what I'm getting at. There is a difference between the two. Imagine it like this: I'm a tourist in New York City and I ask the mayor what the best places are to visit that will give me the most accurate impression of what NYC is like. He'll tell me to go see the Statue of Liberty, Empire State Building, Central Park, etc, etc. But if I ask any person who's lived there their whole life, they'd give me an entirely different list of the "cooler" places to see. They'd give me the newest, coolest "tech" that NYC has to offer.
So for the purpose of this thread, I want the mayor's suggestions. Who on MTG Salvation is the Mayor of Zoo? Who's the Zoo-Keeper???
Slipknot, I'm looking at you especially...you posted a list with BSA in it?!?! Come on man....
I don't remember who built that list but it was ran by Kibler to win PT Austin.
That list was specifically made to beat other zoo decks at PT austin. It did do its job very well. No one can be sure what zoo is going to look like in the future so I would almost go out on a limb and build the one that is the worst matchup for whatever deck your testing at the time.
If I was a betting man though I would say something like what I posted isn't far out of the realm of impossibility. It has the same match up %s against against twin, but is favorable in the mirror and against affinity. With the touch of blue it uses it would also probably not be as much of the dog against random combo decks because of a few counterspells in the board.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
1. A zoo player asking to know which is the best zoo deck so that he can play it.
2. A non zoo player asking to know which is the best zoo deck so that he can playtest against it.
In both situations, both persons are seeking the exact same thing. A correct response to 1. should be indistinguishable from a correct response to 2.
False.
Most magic players are terrible and won't be playing the best version of zoo, but you still have to test against what most people will be running, regardless of how terrible their list is.
Most magic players are terrible and won't be playing the best version of zoo, but you still have to test against what most people will be running, regardless of how terrible their list is.
This if you considering MTGO dailies or Fnm style events. In PTQs and more so in GPs you will be seeing what people consider the best lists. The OP didn't state what level of tournament he was brewing for and what not but it is slightly half-cocked not to expect the best list at higher levels.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Most magic players are terrible and won't be playing the best version of zoo, but you still have to test against what most people will be running, regardless of how terrible their list is.
Yeah I understand that, but from what I gather from the Zoo thread in Established Competitive, everyone claims to have the best list. That thread is kind of a mess. Even in this thread, over the past couple hours there's probably 4 or 5 different variations that people have claimed are the most "common" version of Zoo. With an ever-changing meta, I just need a list that is competitive but also doesn't have to be the newest cutting edge deck as it's not meant to be played at any event. As time goes, I will probably adjust the Zoo test-deck to accommodate any sweeping changes the deck faces (bannings, a new must-have card, etc).
This if you considering MTGO dailies or Fnm style events. In PTQs and more so in GPs you will be seeing what people consider the best lists. The OP didn't state what level of tournament he was brewing for and what not but it is slightly half-cocked not to expect the best list at higher levels.
Well at this moment, I'd be testing my deck ideas for local tournaments but being in the Philly area, there are PTQ's and larger events nearby. Really though, I just want to know if my deck ideas will be crushed by Zoo. Plus it never hurts to have a Zoo test-deck around as beating/competing with Zoo seems to be the litmus test for any fledgling deck in Modern.
Yeah I understand that, but from what I gather from the Zoo thread in Established Competitive, everyone claims to have the best list. That thread is kind of a mess. Even in this thread, over the past couple hours there's probably 4 or 5 different variations that people have claimed are the most "common" version of Zoo. With an ever-changing meta, I just need a list that is competitive but also doesn't have to be the newest cutting edge deck as it's not meant to be played at any event. As time goes, I will probably adjust the Zoo test-deck to accommodate any sweeping changes the deck faces (bannings, a new must-have card, etc).
Zoo is just really broad and ill-defined. Basically, when you see a Wild Nacatl hit the table, you know you're playing some kind of Zoo variant.
If you want to test and make your deck the best, play against the best possible decks. By this I mean that you can start with anything, though I'm guessing one-drop Zoo is the best best for most testing purposes, but you should change the variant of Zoo to be better against your deck. Running lots of Artifacts? Test against Pridemage. Can't get stuff countered? Countercat. Need to stick X/2s? Punishing Zoo. etc
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Most zoo lists only put Finks in for the Mirror, and you can expect to see +4 Helixes in just about any zoo deck.
That being said, the real strength of Zoo (outside it's efficiency) is it's ability to be tuned to just about any meta. Splashing other colors for specific reasons is always viable within zoo, and thus, their board and even maindeck can be wildly different.
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Yeah I understand that, but from what I gather from the Zoo thread in Established Competitive, everyone claims to have the best list. That thread is kind of a mess. Even in this thread, over the past couple hours there's probably 4 or 5 different variations that people have claimed are the most "common" version of Zoo. With an ever-changing meta, I just need a list that is competitive but also doesn't have to be the newest cutting edge deck as it's not meant to be played at any event. As time goes, I will probably adjust the Zoo test-deck to accommodate any sweeping changes the deck faces (bannings, a new must-have card, etc).
Well at this moment, I'd be testing my deck ideas for local tournaments but being in the Philly area, there are PTQ's and larger events nearby. Really though, I just want to know if my deck ideas will be crushed by Zoo. Plus it never hurts to have a Zoo test-deck around as beating/competing with Zoo seems to be the litmus test for any fledgling deck in Modern.
Yeah I would definitely test against zoo. It is the golden standard of modern. If you can't beat it you shouldn't play with your deck. Twin is probably the other deck I would consider testing against if I could only test against one other deck.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Yeah I would definitely test against zoo. It is the golden standard of modern. If you can't beat it you shouldn't play with your deck.
This is close, but a bit narrow-minded. While I agree that zoo needs to be tested against, decks that lose to zoo can still be quite good in this format. A deck that loses to zoo but has good match ups against a majority of the other decks is viable. That being said, people need to have a game plan against zoo.
What I'm looking for is someone to point me in the right direction to find a Zoo list that would be a good representation of a common Zoo build that would be good to test my other decks against. I was thinking of just building the Naya build without the Punishing Grove combo and without blue but having not really played a modern Zoo deck, I don't know if that would be a good representation.
Anyone have any lists or links to lists that would be good?
Also, I'm not looking for any budget lists...I have all the cards including Goyfs.
Thanks!
The loss of GSZ hurt that deck way too much.
@ OP
Honestly it really depends lol. I think right now the best list are the ones built to beat other zoo decks. Living end is going to start seeing some play, and after that a the best list might splash blue for a few unified wills or mana leaks.
3 Baneslayer Angel
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
[15 other spells]
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Punishing Fire
4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
2 Treetop Village
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Blood Moon
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Meddling Mage
This is an old zoo list that won Pt austin a few years back which was the extended format that shared essentially the same card pool we have now. It probably needs a bit of work, but it is probably a good place to start.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Is this list at all relevant still?
4 Kird Ape
3 Loam Lion
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Ranger of Eos
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Marsh Flats
2 Temple Garden
2 Sacred Foundry
3 Stomping Ground
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Stigma Lasher
3 Dauntless Escort
2 Vexing Shusher
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Ghost Quarter
1. A zoo player asking to know which is the best zoo deck so that he can play it.
2. A non zoo player asking to know which is the best zoo deck so that he can playtest against it.
In both situations, both persons are seeking the exact same thing. A correct response to 1. should be indistinguishable from a correct response to 2.
So, how do we know that you're not secretly a zoo player, masquerading as a non-zoo player. How do we know that you're not just going to use these lists to build yourself a zoo deck of your own? Then, you would have stolen information under false pretenses. That's like taking information over to the dark side. It's a serious offence you know.
I pray that you are not with the dark side. But I can't help thinking that if you were with the dark side, this is exactly what you would be doing...
BRG Loam Control (Assault - Loam) BRG
W Mono White Control (Martyr - Proc) W
CG
As much as your full post made me chuckle, I felt like answering this question.
#1 is simply the most popular zoo deck, the one that he will encounter the most often. #1 is your stereotypical zoo deck, with no weird shenaniganry or off-the-wall maindecks like Ancient Grudge or something.
#2 is the zoo deck that will actually do the best, and will be tuned to fight the current metagame at a specific event. #2 will vary from tournament to tournament, but if you're looking for a baseline, #1 is what you want.
And I wish I could help OP, bt I can't. I play Burn, so every other deck in the format looks sort of similar. There's this difficulty in telling the difference between the charred corpse of a Welshman and the charred corpse of a Russian.
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My main concern with this list is noble heiracrch is used to what ends? your not playing anything expensive except for 2 Ranger of Eos which is honestly worse than gideon or elspeth. That list would still be a decent benchmark since your not planning on playing it. Zoo is a deck that can literally run all 5 colors, be the best aggro deck in the format, be built to destroy one type of deck be it control, aggro, or combo.
We could have a whole entire meta of nothing but zoo variants, its essentially happened before even though that format had more powerful combo decks and control existed in it's less subjective form.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I can honestly say I've never played a Zoo deck in any format. I have however built Zoo decks to playtest against other decks in a wide variety of formats.
Or maybe I'm lying and am with the "dark side." But if I was, I'd just go on the internet and find a decklist anyway. Nothing's a secret anymore
This is exactly what I'm getting at. There is a difference between the two. Imagine it like this: I'm a tourist in New York City and I ask the mayor what the best places are to visit that will give me the most accurate impression of what NYC is like. He'll tell me to go see the Statue of Liberty, Empire State Building, Central Park, etc, etc. But if I ask any person who's lived there their whole life, they'd give me an entirely different list of the "cooler" places to see. They'd give me the newest, coolest "tech" that NYC has to offer.
So for the purpose of this thread, I want the mayor's suggestions. Who on MTG Salvation is the Mayor of Zoo? Who's the Zoo-Keeper???
Slipknot, I'm looking at you especially...you posted a list with BSA in it?!?! Come on man....
EDIT: since writing this I see Slipknot had chimed in with more info...my bad, sir.
I don't remember who built that list but it was ran by Kibler to win PT Austin.
That list was specifically made to beat other zoo decks at PT austin. It did do its job very well. No one can be sure what zoo is going to look like in the future so I would almost go out on a limb and build the one that is the worst matchup for whatever deck your testing at the time.
If I was a betting man though I would say something like what I posted isn't far out of the realm of impossibility. It has the same match up %s against against twin, but is favorable in the mirror and against affinity. With the touch of blue it uses it would also probably not be as much of the dog against random combo decks because of a few counterspells in the board.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
False.
Most magic players are terrible and won't be playing the best version of zoo, but you still have to test against what most people will be running, regardless of how terrible their list is.
This if you considering MTGO dailies or Fnm style events. In PTQs and more so in GPs you will be seeing what people consider the best lists. The OP didn't state what level of tournament he was brewing for and what not but it is slightly half-cocked not to expect the best list at higher levels.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Yeah I understand that, but from what I gather from the Zoo thread in Established Competitive, everyone claims to have the best list. That thread is kind of a mess. Even in this thread, over the past couple hours there's probably 4 or 5 different variations that people have claimed are the most "common" version of Zoo. With an ever-changing meta, I just need a list that is competitive but also doesn't have to be the newest cutting edge deck as it's not meant to be played at any event. As time goes, I will probably adjust the Zoo test-deck to accommodate any sweeping changes the deck faces (bannings, a new must-have card, etc).
Well at this moment, I'd be testing my deck ideas for local tournaments but being in the Philly area, there are PTQ's and larger events nearby. Really though, I just want to know if my deck ideas will be crushed by Zoo. Plus it never hurts to have a Zoo test-deck around as beating/competing with Zoo seems to be the litmus test for any fledgling deck in Modern.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
Zoo is just really broad and ill-defined. Basically, when you see a Wild Nacatl hit the table, you know you're playing some kind of Zoo variant.
CG
L1 Judge
4 Loam Lion
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Elspeth, Knight Errant
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Other than the fact that quick Zoo lists are NOT the best verse everyone, there are much faster lists that include more one-drops and burn.
L1 Judge
-3 Finks, -1 Elspeth. +4 Lightning Helix, and you've got as standard of a zoo list as one can hope for.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
Most zoo lists only put Finks in for the Mirror, and you can expect to see +4 Helixes in just about any zoo deck.
That being said, the real strength of Zoo (outside it's efficiency) is it's ability to be tuned to just about any meta. Splashing other colors for specific reasons is always viable within zoo, and thus, their board and even maindeck can be wildly different.
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Stomping Grounds
2 Temple Garden
4 Arid Mesa
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Mountain
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
[b]Sorceries (4) [/b]
4 Molten Rain
[b]Instants (12) [/b]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Seering Blaze
1 Gideon Jura
2 Krosan Grip
3 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Combust
3 Gaddock Teeg
This is the list I playtest my decks against, and tend to use against other people when I get tired of playing combo.
Yeah I would definitely test against zoo. It is the golden standard of modern. If you can't beat it you shouldn't play with your deck. Twin is probably the other deck I would consider testing against if I could only test against one other deck.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
This is close, but a bit narrow-minded. While I agree that zoo needs to be tested against, decks that lose to zoo can still be quite good in this format. A deck that loses to zoo but has good match ups against a majority of the other decks is viable. That being said, people need to have a game plan against zoo.