Phyrexia's problem is that its creatures blew. Maybe they were good under the old stack rules but they're really inefficient now, when coalition gets amazing kicker card advantage cards and stuff like yamivaya elder. Phyrexia is not fast enough to kill coalition before they get their mana fixing together and bring out dragons or armadillo cloak'd beefy creatures. Even dark ritual is not great when a t1 ritual brings out crap like phyrexian ghoul, phyrexian broodling.
If Elspeth draws her nuts removal (2 StP, abolish, journey to nowhere, saltblast, sunlance)., she's not afraid of razormane masticore period. Convoke is admittedly very weak but Elspeth's pump effects (crusade, celestial crusader etc) outmuscle Tez's lack of removal.
This card will be the worst rare in RTR and less remembered than skaab ruibator in three months. It struggles to be on the same power level as mass of ghouls, even in limited.
That its not simply "not good enough for competitive", or underpowered. But that this is offensively bad, the real stinker tier.
Still, my best evaluation is that its approximately on the same power level as a 4/4 for 4 vanilla beater.
I think it might be more of a case where people aren't realizing how much disruption the Tezzeret deck actually has. I think there is far more removal and aggro in the Tezzeret deck. Combined with draw, search, and recursion its a nice little package.
Some of my favorite setups.
Esperzoa
+Contagion Clasp- Recurable -1/-1 counters and pump for some of your artificat creatures and Tezeret.
+Faerie Mechanist- a 2/2 flyer that helps zip through your deck.
+Pentavus- Put a bunch of 1/1 flyers out and bounce back to your hand.
+Serrated Biskelion- recurring -1/-1 counters. Not great but works.
+Triskelion- Amazing syndergy. Plop down. Ping whatever... Rinse repeat. Clears the board fast.
Trinket Mage: Fetches some amazing stuff and pumps up affinity.
+Aether Spellbomb- More bounce for either my creatures or theirs. Draws an extra card when you need to keep Masticore alive and doing 3 damage.
+Steal Wall- if you just need a blocker
+Seat of the Synod- for mana excel
+Darksteel Citadel- for mana excel
+Everflowing Chalice- for mana excel
+Archbound Worker- a better blocker imo since it can give a +1/+1 counter on something like a Triskelion, Clockwork Hydra, Clockwork Condor or Pentavus.
+Elixir of Immortality- Mediocre card but works well with Tezzeret to shuffle back needed cards in the graveyard to search for again. A good example would be Spellbomb.
Draw spells:
Thoughtcast- I usually cast this pretty easily. More cards=power
Thirst for Knowledge- Instant speed draw power that sets up Argivian Restoration Nicely.
Runed Servitor- A bit of an odd creature. But if I trade creatures and we both draw a card. I am ok with that.
Beef Sticks
+Qumulox- 5/4 Flyer Super easy to cast in this deck.
+Razormaine Masticore- 5/5 1st strike that pings creatures for 3 damage.
+Master of Etherium- Just a silly beefstick that needs to be answered quickly. A 3cc drop no less.
+Clockwork Hydra- a 4/4 that pings 1/1 tokens with ease.
+Juggernaut- I 4drop set to auto pilot.
Creature Control
+Trip Noose- Negates Elspeth's Pump ability nicely.
+Echoing Truth- An amazing utiltiy card for either your creatures or your opponent (Sure why don't you re-enforce your creature). Can be a mini wrath of god.
+Moonglove Extract 3 damage burn gives the deck a bit more reach.... searchable in a pinch (unlikely though).
+Spellbomb-Yups
Pump Abilities that do not require mana to be open.
Steel Overseer- Havent gotten this guy to stick yet though lol.
Energy Chamber- A sneaky card imo.
What is funny about Foil is that it outright preserves losing control in matches. Its the poor man's Force of Will which is still good imo.
Some cards that I am not too crazy about.
Assembly Worker-Meh...
Frogmite-Meh...
Synod Centurion-Meh
All of that synergy and I haven't even discuss what Tezzeret actually brings to the table. Which is what I think is what adds an extra 1up to the Tez deck. That it doesn't need Tezz out to win.
As a Tez player I just don't block, take the damage, gain board control and win.
I am going to be solely playing the Elspeth deck for awhile. Going to figure out if it has a way to overcome the Tez deck.
Creature Control
+Trip Noose- Negates Elspeth's Pump ability nicely.
+Echoing Truth- An amazing utiltiy card for either your creatures or your opponent (Sure why don't you re-enforce your creature). Can be a mini wrath of god.
+Moonglove Extract 3 damage burn gives the deck a bit more reach.... searchable in a pinch (unlikely though).
+Spellbomb-Yups
For one, moonglove does 2 damage. And you pretty much listed the problem with Tez's "removal". Half in your list is bounce, which is terrible compared to the 4 hard removal Elspeth has. Sunlance does 3 damage for 1 mana while moonglove is 2 for 3 mana, a lot more efficient. Triskelion isn't great removal, 6 mana to do 3 damage when it comes out, there's slow ways to reload it but against a weenie deck with pump and crusade effects it's not enough.
The real problem is that Tez can't deal with Elspeth's bombs like crusade, celestial crusader and angel of salvation, while Elspeth has 4-5 removal that can deal with razormane masticore, pentavus, triskelion. Tez has a hell of a time dealing with mobs that have more than 4 toughness while Elspeth has 4 hard removals.
This card will be the worst rare in RTR and less remembered than skaab ruibator in three months. It struggles to be on the same power level as mass of ghouls, even in limited.
That its not simply "not good enough for competitive", or underpowered. But that this is offensively bad, the real stinker tier.
Still, my best evaluation is that its approximately on the same power level as a 4/4 for 4 vanilla beater.
You makes some good points. And honestly I hope you are right.
Having an artifact that does 2 damage is still great against any creature. Its not like we are playing decks with cost efficient Tarmogoyfs
Cuz the mobs of Elspeth you speak. They are pretty sad as far as power wise. Bouncing is very effective against Elspeth's creatures. Since all you are playing is a tempo game to begin with. Sure Elspeth has removal but not enough to control the board as much as Tezzeret deck.
Elspeth needs crusade and Elspeth to be out to win. Since she has no draw power or deck manipulation its a pretty much hope for a good opening hand with no convoke cards.
Going to be playing more games today... I'll be piloting the Elspeth.
Elspeth does have some lackluster mobs, but some great ones also. The 2 Kor skyfishers are really hard for Tez to deal with early on. Kor aeronaut, Kor Hookmaster, goldmeadow harrier, 2 elite vanguards, seasoned marshall, stormfront riders, celestial crusader and angel of salvation are very good. The average cards are burrenton bombardier, infantry veteran, catapult master (probably really good late game), loyal sentry, and the horrible cards are temple acolyte, mosquito guard, conclave phalanx, and glory seeker. So it's really the 4 horrible cards that make elspeth's deck look weak ;p
This card will be the worst rare in RTR and less remembered than skaab ruibator in three months. It struggles to be on the same power level as mass of ghouls, even in limited.
That its not simply "not good enough for competitive", or underpowered. But that this is offensively bad, the real stinker tier.
Still, my best evaluation is that its approximately on the same power level as a 4/4 for 4 vanilla beater.
This card will be the worst rare in RTR and less remembered than skaab ruibator in three months. It struggles to be on the same power level as mass of ghouls, even in limited.
That its not simply "not good enough for competitive", or underpowered. But that this is offensively bad, the real stinker tier.
Still, my best evaluation is that its approximately on the same power level as a 4/4 for 4 vanilla beater.
Not only are they removal that you can recur but they are also beef sticks or blockers for the scary 3/3 elspeth tokens with crusade and and that flyer dude.
I think path to exile would have been a better choice over swords to plowshares. Why fight for such a small amount of damage and give it back because you are about to have a Masticore destroy your armies of 3/3.
Oh No argument there. If Elspeth is actually on the board yah sure the game swings in her favor. Not by much mind you if the Tezz player has out cards like Spellbomb or better yet Trip Noose.
What I am trying to point out is that without her on the board the deck just pretty much plays out like a really bad draft deck. If the deck somehow was able to draw cards the Elspeth deck might be better. But it just runs out of gas real fast or just chokes on its own poorly built mana curve.
Depends on where you are I've checked every walmart/target within a 30 mile radius of me. None of the Targets seem to have had any yet. All the walmarts apparently are stocked by some third party that comes in every so often, I've only seen the empty DD display cases.
One week ago, one of the wannabe-dealers was cleaning out EvTs from a local game store for 35$ each.
That local game store owner then cleaned out a walmart down the street of their EvTs for 20$ each to sell for 35$ each again. (I know this because I have been checking the magic section whenever I stop by. Also, because the LGS owner also bought the lone phyrexia v coalition that was in the wal mart)
I went to Target and saw 3, bought 1.
It seems like everyone thinks this thing is super rare or something and is just wanting to make a quick buck. Oops.
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Top 4 Legacy Open SCG: Dallas/FortWorth 2012
Top 64 Legacy Open SCG: Dallas/FortWorth 2013
SCG Open Trial (2013): 1st
This is why I love my local dealer he still has 4 EvT and is selling them for 20$
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SonofaBith - Wizards was so excited about making the packaging for Modern Masters 2 recyclable, they decided to make most of the rares and all but 1 of the UC's recycle-bin ready too. Convenient!
I don't think anyone thinks its super rare - I think people have observed what past duel decks have gone for - and since this has better cards than average (new frame new art swords, elspeth, tezz, mishra's factory, etc), they are anticipating that in the future, it will go for noticably more.
Hell, if you can get them for $20, there are sites buying specific cards from it that would net you $26 for every $20 spent already. Granted that's a pretty thin margin for now - but its still profit.
I'm still keeping my eyes peeled for 'em - they are getting harder to find now.
This ship has sailed, and anyone still trying to chase it in a row boat is going to end up sore. Even the singles market has absorbed the stock. Ebay sellers were dumping these things by the case for the last two weeks.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
One of my local WalMarts got a restock. (They had two decks for the last few weeks and now suddenly have 8.) I almost bought one just for the hell of it.
A K-mart nearby has 3 of these in stock for 20 each. Is it still a good investment to nickel and dime these things or is it too late?
The Elspeth from this is holding at $18. Tezzeret at $6. So if you sell/trade you're grabbing your investment back immediately. Then you get a pair of updated StP among a few other goodies. Bottom line is, how often will you find magic stuff 30% off MSRP?
I don't think anyone thinks its super rare - I think people have observed what past duel decks have gone for - and since this has better cards than average (new frame new art swords, elspeth, tezz, mishra's factory, etc), they are anticipating that in the future, it will go for noticably
True, but if you recall a few weeks before release a lot of folks in this thread were expecting the sky to start falling and truly believed that they wouldn't be able to get their hands on this set. Star City Games raised their pre order price to well above MSRP, and other retailers followed suit.
Everyone feared a shortage out of the gate. It never happened.
True, but if you recall a few weeks before release a lot of folks in this thread were expecting the sky to start falling and truly believed that they wouldn't be able to get their hands on this set. Star City Games raised their pre order price to well above MSRP, and other retailers followed suit.
Everyone feared a shortage out of the gate. It never happened.
Yeah, it was actually kind of funny watching so many people going bonkers about this. Heck I remember seeing folks bragging because they got it preordered for only $25. I just had to chuckle the whole time.
Both of my local WalMarts have had them in stock, continuously, since a few days after the release. I got my two long ago. I've considered picking up a few more to hold onto for a year or so, as the resale will eventually go up, but there are better ways to invest your money then Magic card speculation.
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"They've done studies you know. 60% of the time, it works every time."
"That doesn't make sense."
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If Elspeth draws her nuts removal (2 StP, abolish, journey to nowhere, saltblast, sunlance)., she's not afraid of razormane masticore period. Convoke is admittedly very weak but Elspeth's pump effects (crusade, celestial crusader etc) outmuscle Tez's lack of removal.
50 bucks for new art german swords... oh ya i'm a financial genius
—Dr. Cox, Scrubs
I think it might be more of a case where people aren't realizing how much disruption the Tezzeret deck actually has. I think there is far more removal and aggro in the Tezzeret deck. Combined with draw, search, and recursion its a nice little package.
Some of my favorite setups.
Esperzoa
+Contagion Clasp- Recurable -1/-1 counters and pump for some of your artificat creatures and Tezeret.
+Faerie Mechanist- a 2/2 flyer that helps zip through your deck.
+Pentavus- Put a bunch of 1/1 flyers out and bounce back to your hand.
+Serrated Biskelion- recurring -1/-1 counters. Not great but works.
+Triskelion- Amazing syndergy. Plop down. Ping whatever... Rinse repeat. Clears the board fast.
Trinket Mage: Fetches some amazing stuff and pumps up affinity.
+Aether Spellbomb- More bounce for either my creatures or theirs. Draws an extra card when you need to keep Masticore alive and doing 3 damage.
+Steal Wall- if you just need a blocker
+Seat of the Synod- for mana excel
+Darksteel Citadel- for mana excel
+Everflowing Chalice- for mana excel
+Archbound Worker- a better blocker imo since it can give a +1/+1 counter on something like a Triskelion, Clockwork Hydra, Clockwork Condor or Pentavus.
+Elixir of Immortality- Mediocre card but works well with Tezzeret to shuffle back needed cards in the graveyard to search for again. A good example would be Spellbomb.
Draw spells:
Thoughtcast- I usually cast this pretty easily. More cards=power
Thirst for Knowledge- Instant speed draw power that sets up Argivian Restoration Nicely.
Runed Servitor- A bit of an odd creature. But if I trade creatures and we both draw a card. I am ok with that.
Beef Sticks
+Qumulox- 5/4 Flyer Super easy to cast in this deck.
+Razormaine Masticore- 5/5 1st strike that pings creatures for 3 damage.
+Master of Etherium- Just a silly beefstick that needs to be answered quickly. A 3cc drop no less.
+Clockwork Hydra- a 4/4 that pings 1/1 tokens with ease.
+Juggernaut- I 4drop set to auto pilot.
Creature Control
+Trip Noose- Negates Elspeth's Pump ability nicely.
+Echoing Truth- An amazing utiltiy card for either your creatures or your opponent (Sure why don't you re-enforce your creature). Can be a mini wrath of god.
+Moonglove Extract 3 damage burn gives the deck a bit more reach.... searchable in a pinch (unlikely though).
+Spellbomb-Yups
Pump Abilities that do not require mana to be open.
Steel Overseer- Havent gotten this guy to stick yet though lol.
Energy Chamber- A sneaky card imo.
What is funny about Foil is that it outright preserves losing control in matches. Its the poor man's Force of Will which is still good imo.
Some cards that I am not too crazy about.
Assembly Worker-Meh...
Frogmite-Meh...
Synod Centurion-Meh
All of that synergy and I haven't even discuss what Tezzeret actually brings to the table. Which is what I think is what adds an extra 1up to the Tez deck. That it doesn't need Tezz out to win.
As a Tez player I just don't block, take the damage, gain board control and win.
I am going to be solely playing the Elspeth deck for awhile. Going to figure out if it has a way to overcome the Tez deck.
The real problem is that Tez can't deal with Elspeth's bombs like crusade, celestial crusader and angel of salvation, while Elspeth has 4-5 removal that can deal with razormane masticore, pentavus, triskelion. Tez has a hell of a time dealing with mobs that have more than 4 toughness while Elspeth has 4 hard removals.
Having an artifact that does 2 damage is still great against any creature. Its not like we are playing decks with cost efficient Tarmogoyfs
Cuz the mobs of Elspeth you speak. They are pretty sad as far as power wise. Bouncing is very effective against Elspeth's creatures. Since all you are playing is a tempo game to begin with. Sure Elspeth has removal but not enough to control the board as much as Tezzeret deck.
Elspeth needs crusade and Elspeth to be out to win. Since she has no draw power or deck manipulation its a pretty much hope for a good opening hand with no convoke cards.
Going to be playing more games today... I'll be piloting the Elspeth.
Just finished some matches.
6 Games Tezz wins.
1 Win for Elspeth (Me)
Which matches when I played the Tezz Games.
6 Games Tezz Wins (Me)
1 Win for Elspeth
Like always the Elspeth deck does a good job of knocking down life, but can't seal the deal before the Tezz deck starts going nuts.
To be honest the Tezz deck is more beefy aggro than the Elspeth. It can ramp up to bigger better creatures a lot faster than the Elspeth deck.
Elspeth deck is the slower of the 2 imo. Sure it plays spells fast and furious, but has little impact overall.
Horrible deck balance.
Tezz deck- Better Removal, Draw Power, Deck Manipulation, Recursion, And Better Creatures.
Elspeth- Speeds up to put itself into top deck mode and speeds its self up only to slow its self down via tempo.
Going to stick with Phyrexia Vs Coalition.
And dismantle the Elspeth Vs Tezz decks my Cube.
Serrated biskelion, contagion clasp, moonglove extractor, aether spellbomb, echoing truth, triskelion, razormane masticore is better than 2x StP, journey to nowhere, sunlance, abolish, saltblast?
Not only are they removal that you can recur but they are also beef sticks or blockers for the scary 3/3 elspeth tokens with crusade and and that flyer dude.
I think path to exile would have been a better choice over swords to plowshares. Why fight for such a small amount of damage and give it back because you are about to have a Masticore destroy your armies of 3/3.
What I am trying to point out is that without her on the board the deck just pretty much plays out like a really bad draft deck. If the deck somehow was able to draw cards the Elspeth deck might be better. But it just runs out of gas real fast or just chokes on its own poorly built mana curve.
Needs more Goyf.
GGGMGAGGG
RRRRed AffinityRRR
RGShamansGR
BWB/W ControlWB
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Heartless Hidetsugu
Cromat
Nicol Bolas
Sapling of Colfenor
Mayael the Anima
Ditto. There are still plenty of these around.
Depends on where you are I've checked every walmart/target within a 30 mile radius of me. None of the Targets seem to have had any yet. All the walmarts apparently are stocked by some third party that comes in every so often, I've only seen the empty DD display cases.
That local game store owner then cleaned out a walmart down the street of their EvTs for 20$ each to sell for 35$ each again. (I know this because I have been checking the magic section whenever I stop by. Also, because the LGS owner also bought the lone phyrexia v coalition that was in the wal mart)
I went to Target and saw 3, bought 1.
It seems like everyone thinks this thing is super rare or something and is just wanting to make a quick buck. Oops.
Top 64 Legacy Open SCG: Dallas/FortWorth 2013
SCG Open Trial (2013): 1st
GW Rhys the Redeemed EDH
RUGAnimar, Soul of Elements EDH
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death EDH
Hell, if you can get them for $20, there are sites buying specific cards from it that would net you $26 for every $20 spent already. Granted that's a pretty thin margin for now - but its still profit.
I'm still keeping my eyes peeled for 'em - they are getting harder to find now.
EDH:
[Competitive] Azusa, Lost but Seeking (54 Lands)
[Competitive] Azami, Lady of Scrolls (Time Warp combo/control)
[Competitive] Kruphix, God of No (True EDH DrawGo)
The Elspeth from this is holding at $18. Tezzeret at $6. So if you sell/trade you're grabbing your investment back immediately. Then you get a pair of updated StP among a few other goodies. Bottom line is, how often will you find magic stuff 30% off MSRP?
Playing:
Modern:
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
Legacy:
WEldraziW
$4 of $20 is only 20% though, not 30%. Mild error.
True, but if you recall a few weeks before release a lot of folks in this thread were expecting the sky to start falling and truly believed that they wouldn't be able to get their hands on this set. Star City Games raised their pre order price to well above MSRP, and other retailers followed suit.
Everyone feared a shortage out of the gate. It never happened.
Yeah, it was actually kind of funny watching so many people going bonkers about this. Heck I remember seeing folks bragging because they got it preordered for only $25. I just had to chuckle the whole time.
Both of my local WalMarts have had them in stock, continuously, since a few days after the release. I got my two long ago. I've considered picking up a few more to hold onto for a year or so, as the resale will eventually go up, but there are better ways to invest your money then Magic card speculation.
"That doesn't make sense."