I really wish these duals had of been enemy colored so that they wouldn't have to compete with the M11 duals and the manlands. They might have been a little better then.
The Dual cycle is a nice set for the game to have. Decks that need fast mana of 2 colors how have the old dual, the Ravnica Shocklands, fetches, and these. Their impact on standard will depend completely on how fast the format ill get. Although I personally think that all dual lands should be uncommon, Wizards needs to sell boxes.
Poison Lord is sweet for those inclined to make such a deck. Wizards seems to know that poison will need to be very fast in order to compete. I suspect that the last week of previews will be Phyrexia Week and we'll get more poison goodness.
Venser's Journal will probably be nice for some variant formats.
How likely is it that youre going to get all 4 in the first few turns?
You don't need all 4. Just one or two at most. Hell, if you see all 4 in a single match in Standard then your game is taking too long and someone needs to run more win conditions.
I'd take the M10 duals over these any day. However, in the next set if we get a set of phyrexian enemy duals, I won't care if they EBT or not, they will still be good.
Also if you have mixed feelings about the lands or think they out-right suck, READ the article on dailymtg.com - he spells it out for you the positives/negatives.
The new duals could actually make the old ones (2010/2011) less desirable if the Scars block is really as fast as it seems it will be.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
The infect lord is GODLY!!!... and as for the lands- I misread it originally- I thought it was 2 or more. so... they are bad late game but, early game they are whatever mana you need them to be, which makes them good! ... VERY GOOD!... multi color decks will need less mulligans probably increasing the consistancy of colors
I think the Poison Lord makes UB poison totally constructed viable. You won't even have to attack much; maybe once. You just keep proliferating, countering and playing cheap proliferaters.
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Venser's journal, seems like another crap rare... even for EDH
You're right for the most part, but it's not as though it's universally bad. Azami EDH decks routinely run Empyrial Plate and Diviner's Wand to help her win through general damage, and decklists regularly pack Reliquary Tower, Spellbook, and Ivory Tower as a result. Venser's Journal adds redundancy to all three of those cards, making the deck much more robust.
For sure some of these dual lands should be valued higher than others. The GW and GR versions will be worth the most I think. Then BR and UB and finally UW.
Are you serious?!?! Red splash black wants the new duels so hard. Guaranteed 1 mana on turn 1, 2 mana on turn 2, and 3 mana on turn 3?
Turn four, like, what's that? Another combat phase?
I love everything about the new duels.
The core set duals favor control, as their value increases with time. These favor fast decks. Talk about BALANCE yo!
Also really loving how they smartly stepped away from the "artifact lands" issue and went in a totally different direction. However, this direction benefits a lot of strategies that are compatible with SoM strategies, like fast artifact Metalcraft/combo. Very smart.
Excluding The fact that Tunnel Ignus is a hilarious play on words, the fact that it hoses ramp further reinforces my pleasure with Wizard's R&D commitment to slow the game down.
Prior to this latest cycle, there was no downside to ramp (outside of strategically dead cards late-game), now its just as risky as any other strategy.
Almost, yeah. I'd say, for the eternal formats, these are behind only the originals and Ravnica cycle. But having the basic types is big, thanks to the Onslaught and Zendy fetchlands. So that distinction - third best cycle for eternal formats - really shouldn't mean anything, since they probably won't be showing up all that often.
For standard, these are nothing crazy. Good, not great. Don't work well with the M10 cycle.
The shocklands are only used in eternal formats by people who cant afford the original duals. For the record the heirarchy goes Fetchlands > original duals > everything else and in a pinch you can get away with not using the original duals.
These duals are good for aggressive decks which is good because they need their mana fixing too without risking giving up one of their precious early turns.
The lord is scary good. They seem to be taking a very linear set design with this set for far in terms of the decks they expect people to build. Interesting if a bit unexciting. The lord will definitely go into my Skythirix EDH deck
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Every rarity gets good cards. That means that some mythic rares will be tournament quality as will some commons, some uncommons and some rares. My promise wasn't that mythic rares wouldn't get good cards but that we wouldn't limit the good cards to only being mythic rare.
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
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I could possibly see their use, but I'll gladly take M10 duals of these any day of the week. Not even a competition really.
You guys don't play aggro I take it. Comes into play untapped if they're lands 1 to 3. If they're not your first to third land, they're mostly irrelevant anyway. It's unlikely that you will top deck this as your fourth if you run only four. You should be able to manage getting your fourth land untapped as well.
for those of you with eyes only for Standard, go take a read on Scapeshift and then tell me what you think Tunnel Ignus is really about. thats a targetted hoser in the same vein as Great Sable Stag. its versatile enough to maybe see sideboard play in Standard (against Primeval Titan decks or whatever) but it seems pretty obvious where its primary home is. Extended.
as for the lands...if you think they're bad then i suppose you like to play control. they are bad for control. they're quite good for fast decks. thats their purpose. its nice to have some variety.
At first I thought those duals were weird and kinda iffy, but then I remembered that I'm a casual player who, until last year, used the Invasion duals left and right, and these are strictly better. I guess they're decent. Still personally prefer M10 duals.
And Tunnel Ingus + New Fronteirs = good times. (I know it's a "may" effect, but I'm quite content for a 1-sided huge mana dump.)
These are much worse then M10 duals. Slightly better than refuges, but most of the time, they will enter the battlefield tapped. They are an interesting drawback nontheless.
Tunnel Ignus is the obvious tech against ramp, and Vesner's Journal is too expensive to matter.
The Praetor will be interesting in an UB Infect-Proliferate deck. Whether Competitive or Casual is still to be determined....
EDIT: I wish they made it similar to Oona's blackguard, placing +1/+1 counters instead of outright pumping. That way it has more synergy with proliferate.
I think the Poison Lord makes UB poison totally constructed viable. You won't even have to attack much; maybe once. You just keep proliferating, countering and playing cheap proliferaters.
Amen. Completely agree.....I still think I'll play a more aggro version though.
Excluding The fact that Tunnel Ignus is a hilarious play on words, the fact that it hoses ramp further reinforces my pleasure with Wizard's R&D commitment to slow the game down.
Prior to this latest cycle, there was no downside to ramp (outside of strategically dead cards late-game), now its just as risky as any other strategy.
bolded for emphasis... LMAO... This block is going to have games so outrageously fast it'll make your head spin... be prepared. the new duals only reinforce this. let's just top our curve at 3 and kill turn 3-4... YAY!!!
I'm too old to feel like a kid this much looking at the new set... man I love mirrodin... return to mirrodin looks like a blast.
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Anyone who thinks the new duals are bad should have played Jund at some point over the last year. There were many times when M10 lands entering the battlefield tapped because you didn't have the basic meant no 3 drop on turn 3. Also, in order for this to CiP tapped on turn 4 (the crucial turn in the passing meta), it would have to be the fourth land you played. And that means that there had to have been three other lands that it was better for you to have played for some reason if it was in your opening hand, or you would have to have off-the-topped it on your fourth turn with no other land in play. Anyone who thinks these lands are worse needs to think it through a bit more.
I approve of the existance of dual-lands that a) aren't incredibly powerful but b) don't always CIPT. Things like alara's trilands (etc) are great for the casual player/those who don't want to drain their wallet for their manabase, but having cheaper-costing lands that don't botch up the first few turns is definately a good thing. Not all duals should be must-play cashwads.
In other news, Gerrard called; he wants his journal back...
Wow, Wizards really must be worried about ramp. Between the Ignus and the Arbiter, ramp has a rough road ahead of it.
Also, is it just me, or does this whole "anti-ramp" thing feel sort of last-minute? I know that Wizards probably had these cards planned for quite some time, but it does feel a bit like cheating when right after a type of deck becomes popular not one but two tech cards against it are released.
For once, the FFL saw the writing on the wall and put cards in a set to keep it from dominating a season (unlike with Faeries). It's only been, what, 3 months, and I'm already sick of seeing 5 out of 8 people playing P.Titan Ramp "variants." Now we know why Warp World didn't show up in M11.
The kind of deck that wants these new duals is the kind of deck that doesn't want more than 4 lands. There is almost no disadvantage to them and these are the first lands we have seen since Pain Lands that encourage aggressive strategies. CIPT lands are pretty much worthless to them.
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That was pretty interesting. But dropping a warship on me is cheating. Take it back!
I disagree most strongly. They suck in control type decks, thats for sure. In a fast paced deck they are just great. I think they work well with scry or Sea Gate Oracle where you can chose basics over them if your colours have been fixed.
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Poison Lord is sweet for those inclined to make such a deck. Wizards seems to know that poison will need to be very fast in order to compete. I suspect that the last week of previews will be Phyrexia Week and we'll get more poison goodness.
Venser's Journal will probably be nice for some variant formats.
also,
Dear Titan Ramp and fetchland players,
And we think you're ugly too.
Sincerely,
I think they just fit different deckstyles. These are going to be used in aggressive decks that need 2 colors turn 1.
You don't need all 4. Just one or two at most. Hell, if you see all 4 in a single match in Standard then your game is taking too long and someone needs to run more win conditions.
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The new duals could actually make the old ones (2010/2011) less desirable if the Scars block is really as fast as it seems it will be.
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Are you serious?!?! Red splash black wants the new duels so hard. Guaranteed 1 mana on turn 1, 2 mana on turn 2, and 3 mana on turn 3?
Turn four, like, what's that? Another combat phase?
I love everything about the new duels.
The core set duals favor control, as their value increases with time. These favor fast decks. Talk about BALANCE yo!
Also really loving how they smartly stepped away from the "artifact lands" issue and went in a totally different direction. However, this direction benefits a lot of strategies that are compatible with SoM strategies, like fast artifact Metalcraft/combo. Very smart.
Prior to this latest cycle, there was no downside to ramp (outside of strategically dead cards late-game), now its just as risky as any other strategy.
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The shocklands are only used in eternal formats by people who cant afford the original duals. For the record the heirarchy goes Fetchlands > original duals > everything else and in a pinch you can get away with not using the original duals.
These duals are good for aggressive decks which is good because they need their mana fixing too without risking giving up one of their precious early turns.
The lord is scary good. They seem to be taking a very linear set design with this set for far in terms of the decks they expect people to build. Interesting if a bit unexciting. The lord will definitely go into my Skythirix EDH deck
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
Or third
You guys don't play aggro I take it. Comes into play untapped if they're lands 1 to 3. If they're not your first to third land, they're mostly irrelevant anyway. It's unlikely that you will top deck this as your fourth if you run only four. You should be able to manage getting your fourth land untapped as well.
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as for the lands...if you think they're bad then i suppose you like to play control. they are bad for control. they're quite good for fast decks. thats their purpose. its nice to have some variety.
And Tunnel Ingus + New Fronteirs = good times. (I know it's a "may" effect, but I'm quite content for a 1-sided huge mana dump.)
Tunnel Ignus is the obvious tech against ramp, and Vesner's Journal is too expensive to matter.
The Praetor will be interesting in an UB Infect-Proliferate deck. Whether Competitive or Casual is still to be determined....
EDIT: I wish they made it similar to Oona's blackguard, placing +1/+1 counters instead of outright pumping. That way it has more synergy with proliferate.
Amen. Completely agree.....I still think I'll play a more aggro version though.
No kidding. Honestly think it's pretty lame and tasteless on their part, since this card is always going to be associated with.... that.... now.
bolded for emphasis... LMAO... This block is going to have games so outrageously fast it'll make your head spin... be prepared. the new duals only reinforce this. let's just top our curve at 3 and kill turn 3-4... YAY!!!
I'm too old to feel like a kid this much looking at the new set... man I love mirrodin... return to mirrodin looks like a blast.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
In other news, Gerrard called; he wants his journal back...
For once, the FFL saw the writing on the wall and put cards in a set to keep it from dominating a season (unlike with Faeries). It's only been, what, 3 months, and I'm already sick of seeing 5 out of 8 people playing P.Titan Ramp "variants." Now we know why Warp World didn't show up in M11.
No, it's more of a cross between Spellbook and Ivory Tower, though the lifegain is better.
For the obtuse ones like me, what's the play on words here?
I disagree most strongly. They suck in control type decks, thats for sure. In a fast paced deck they are just great. I think they work well with scry or Sea Gate Oracle where you can chose basics over them if your colours have been fixed.
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