According to the description there will be "several never before released in foil" there are only three cards in my all-foil burn deck that are not foil. Chain Lightning, which we're getting. Price of Progress. And Red Elemental Blast - in my sideboard. Every other card is foil. Dare I hope to complete my deck? REB would not hurt them to reprint, the card isn't worth a whole lot, and would easily fill a common slot in the deck. Foil Price of Progress is the only other thing I want for Christmas this year. But, I'm curious to compile a list of famous burn spells from over the years that have been "never before released in foil"
Also, I'm still looking very forward to this deck.
Note: This deck will be in limited supply and nowhere as many prints as Slivers so don't wait if you want to buy one. This is confirmed @ PT Amsterdam Retailer Convention
Don't tell my local shop, there letting me pre-order four of them.
Slivers was supposed to be limited too. You could (and still can) pick them up in big box retailers like Target and Walmart. Course, you can still get it because the deck list was awful.
ummm yeah if rolling earthquake were printed in here....way to make it another FTV like markup because regular rolling earthquakes are worth around $100...you can only imagine the reaction it would cause.
At least chain lightning is in here; I'll finally get a set then because the price will go down.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
ummm yeah if rolling earthquake were printed in here....way to make it another FTV like markup because regular rolling earthquakes are worth around $100...you can only imagine the reaction it would cause.
I think they'd use the 'horsemanship' excuse before the value one to not print this. I doubt we'll ever see any horsemanship reprints. But yeah. I expect a bunch of incinerates, lightning bolts, the new crappy ball lightning from m11, and other mediocre stuff like flame slash.
I agree with the people saying it's probably not worth the msrp. Burn cards are usually cheap, I mean unless they stuff a Chain Lightning in here, it's probably not worth it.
I agree with the people saying it's probably not worth the msrp. Burn cards are usually cheap, I mean unless they stuff a Chain Lightning in here, it's probably not worth it.
You should read through... Chain Lightning has been CONFIRMED for this.
Note: This deck will be in limited supply and nowhere as many prints as Slivers so don't wait if you want to buy one. This is confirmed @ PT Amsterdam Retailer Convention
Is there any other confirmation of this?
It would be very disappointing if that were true...
You should read through... Chain Lightning has been CONFIRMED for this.
Regardless, there needs to be at least 2 Chain Lightnings in the deck to make it worth it. Maybe some foil Flamebreaks will up the price but MSRP will be hard to reach unless they include some good lands. I expect a alternative Lightning Bolt art because a reprint of M11/M10 will be bad if it's the same but foiled. I hope they do something creative with this one.
Regardless, there needs to be at least 2 Chain Lightnings in the deck to make it worth it. Maybe some foil Flamebreaks will up the price but MSRP will be hard to reach unless they include some good lands. I expect a alternative Lightning Bolt art because a reprint of M11/M10 will be bad if it's the same but foiled. I hope they do something creative with this one.
There's already an alternate art for the bolt... the foil from MPR
As much as I would love to see foil versions of some of the cards you listed (or just reprints of MOST of them), they don't fit the theme of the deck. PoP is damage for nonbasic lands (Earth); Fork is Reserved (and we were just given its successor); Scroll and Ankh are Artifacts.
That said, what I wouldn't mind seeing that hasn't been previously foiled:
There are numerous cards that fit the theme that do exist in foil form; what F&L will not be is Legacy Burn, no matter how much we might wish otherwise.
There's already an alternate art for the bolt... the foil from MPR
Yeah, but they aren't going to use that one for F&L. More than likely we're going to see the M10/M11 Christopher Moeller art instead of the A/B/U Christopher Rush art used for the Judge Reward. However, Mr. Rush has had recent commissions/licensing agreements with WotC (MTGO Masters Edition 3 "reprints;" M11 reprint of Infantry Veteran), so maybe we will see the original Bolt art. I know I wouldn't mind.
As much as I would love to see foil versions of some of the cards you listed (or just reprints of MOST of them), they don't fit the theme of the deck. PoP is damage for nonbasic lands (Earth); Fork is Reserved (and we were just given its successor); Scroll and Ankh are Artifacts.
That said, what I wouldn't mind seeing that hasn't been previously foiled:
There are numerous cards that fit the theme that do exist in foil form; what F&L will not be is Legacy Burn, no matter how much we might wish otherwise.
The fact that Fork is on the Reserve list is sort of irreverent. If you hadn't noticed, the from the vault cards that recently came out. Reserve list didn't stop them from printing Karn, Silver Golem, Masticore, Memory Jar or Mox Diamond. Wizards has promised to revert to the way the reserved list used to work after this year, but they are busy printing what they can get away with for right now.
I'd much rather have Red Elemental Blast over Pyroblast. Pryoblast sort of sucks. I'm pretty sure Thunderbolt will be printed, it's a card no one wants, that counts as a burn spell, and can be lumped in to fill up the deck - and it counts for the "several never before in foil" line.
However, I don't think you should dismiss the notion that other cards may be printed. The description doesn't necessarily claim it's a total burn deck. I'm sure there will be several creatures and probably a couple artifacts (Dragonsclaw, no doubt), and the description states "famous flames, bolts, and beats" so it really could be anything, but I'm sure there will be an emphasis on burn spells. Price of Progress would be Epic, and I'm not expecting it, but I'm not ruling it out either.
I expect they will print chain lightning as a "Mythic" and it will be a single in the deck. So, I'll have to buy four of them.
The fact that Fork is on the Reserve list is sort of irreverent. If you hadn't noticed, the from the vault cards that recently came out. Reserve list didn't stop them from printing Karn, Silver Golem, Masticore, Memory Jar or Mox Diamond. Wizards has promised to revert to the way the reserved list used to work after this year, but they are busy printing what they can get away with for right now.
./sigh
They've gone and clarified the foil loophole into oblivion. Yes, it did exist. As soon as they confirmed that it existed, and they were going to use it there was some backlash that wasn't visible to the public (most likely either legal backlash or retailer backlash) which caused them to clsoe the loophole. The current cards that are using it are cards in products that had already been finalized when the backlash happened. They gave a list of exactly which cards were being reprinted. There will be no "surprise" ones that we don't already know about.
There is no more foil loophole. Its gone. They have been explicitly clear in that.
They've gone and clarified the foil loophole into oblivion. Yes, it did exist. As soon as they confirmed that it existed, and they were going to use it there was some backlash that wasn't visible to the public (most likely either legal backlash or retailer backlash) which caused them to clsoe the loophole. The current cards that are using it are cards in products that had already been finalized when the backlash happened. They gave a list of exactly which cards were being reprinted. There will be no "surprise" ones that we don't already know about.
There is no more foil loophole. Its gone. They have been explicitly clear in that.
The reserve list is just a policy, a nice gesture from the company, if they wanted to they could print every card on there today and have no legal issues. They just like making people happy by saying they wont reprint them. Which in return is a major sadface for legacy players... (sorry if i have bad grammar atm haven't slept in like 30 hours now or so)
The reserve list is just a policy, a nice gesture from the company, if they wanted to they could print every card on there today and have no legal issues. They just like making people happy by saying they wont reprint them. Which in return is a major sadface for legacy players... (sorry if i have bad grammar atm haven't slept in like 30 hours now or so)
Actually, the company could get in trouble for reprinting. You see, they made a public announcement saying these cards would NEVER be reprinted. Some people bought them at real high prices, since they expect them to be worth even more soon. If they reprint them, values go down. People can legally complain, since the company broke an announcement they made, and that caused them losses. That's why such policies are only made public when you plan on sticking to them.
Actually, the company could get in trouble for reprinting. You see, they made a public announcement saying these cards would NEVER be reprinted. Some people bought them at real high prices, since they expect them to be worth even more soon. If they reprint them, values go down. People can legally complain, since the company broke an announcement they made, and that caused them losses.
Even if this were true (which its not) the cost of hiring an attorney would far outweigh any settlement you would receive.
Actually, the company could get in trouble for reprinting. You see, they made a public announcement saying these cards would NEVER be reprinted. Some people bought them at real high prices, since they expect them to be worth even more soon. If they reprint them, values go down. People can legally complain, since the company broke an announcement they made, and that caused them losses. That's why such policies are only made public when you plan on sticking to them.
Ah...another sound judgement from the MTGSalvation Legal department... This is sorry to say totally incorrect for a multitude of reasons first and foremost being the fact that they own the rights to said cards...not you therefore unlike stock and other such options your say doesn't mean squat as they make no money directly from that high dollar purchase you made, nor did you at that point invest your interest in the company in a legal sense.
But to get back on topic, they have a functional reprint of fork now anyway so reprinting it to possibly alienate an already uneasy collector base would be unwise. Besides there are so many better things they could be putting in this deck that fork seems dull, its been reprinted in the last few years twice (Twincast and now in 2011) so pushing it down the players throat again seems unlikely.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mastab3690 »
yes turning of the tide that was a nice, props on breaking the deck
I make it a rule to never say never with this game. I remember when they said they'd never reprint HYPNOTIC SPECTER ever again because the random discard element wasn't fun. Guess what... it came back when they needed it.
So while I think they will stick to the announcement for a few years... there might be a time years from now when the insiders make their case to the big bosses and make something happen. After all, are the From The Vault and Dual Deck sets NEARLY as fun without some classics mixed in?
Actually, the company could get in trouble for reprinting. You see, they made a public announcement saying these cards would NEVER be reprinted. Some people bought them at real high prices, since they expect them to be worth even more soon. If they reprint them, values go down. People can legally complain, since the company broke an announcement they made, and that caused them losses. That's why such policies are only made public when you plan on sticking to them.
Let me preface this post by saying I am not trying to start a fight over something, but I would like the input of other players on this. Please read thoroughly, because I don't want readers to think I am some jaded hermit raising his fist to the sky and shouting "It's the end of Magic! I'm quitting the game! Magic is dead!" I understand WotC is a business. I understand they're not making these decisions just to hurt me. They know more about what's going on than I do regarding the game and what they have in the pipeline for years to come. I'm just a player buying product. They're not in business to please me; they're trying to make a higher profit.
Tizzy says legal action can be pursued because of a breach of promise. Does the legal action also apply to their gutting extended recently? They gave, what, 2 weeks to use your Ravnica shocklands and Dark Depths? WotC announced changes March 2008 (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/dl27). Ravnica should have been in Extended until the Fall of 2012, but on June 18 they told us we had 12 days to play with those cards before they rotated July 1st (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/95b). Technically, could I complain legally and be reimbursed for losses? I would say "no", since WotC did not specifically say they would never change the rotation schedule again. WotC did say they would never print cards on the reserve list. Opinions? Thoughts?
EDIT: Turning_of_the_tide, above, answered my question I guess. Honestly, I have no idea about the legality of such things. I'm ignorant of the law when it comes to company policies. I still think they violated a social contract with the players (unless it really was for the health of the format).
WotC could announce they're destroying the reserve list and it wouldn't phase me. They could change Extended again or make standard only one year's worth of cards and I wouldn't blink an eye. I'll keep buying cards (because I'm addicted), but the recent Extended changes has lowered my opinion of Wizards of the Coast. It was, in my opinion, an unethical cash-grab.
I'd also like some clarification. I thought at one point they said they did not care about the secondary market, but in an interview with Zac Hill, Conley Woods, and Frank Karsten, Zac said they changed extended because of card availability.
Then fix Legacy, too. Many would like to play it but eschew spending $75 on one land. The secondary market is important. That's where many people get their cards. But to claim card availability for changing one format and leaving another with $400 manabases because of card availability issues is a cop-out.
God, if I wanted to play $600 decks, I'd play Standard. SNAP!
Hopefully Fireblast is as well, and price of progress.
Daretti
Ezuri
Captain Sisay (In work)
So far this is ALL I can come up with:
Other than Chain Lightning, which of these do you suspect they might print? Any other suggestions of what cards have never been in foil?
That would be quite a shock since the artist said it was for chain lightning.
Don't tell my local shop, there letting me pre-order four of them.
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
At least chain lightning is in here; I'll finally get a set then because the price will go down.
Currently Playing:
Retired
I think they'd use the 'horsemanship' excuse before the value one to not print this. I doubt we'll ever see any horsemanship reprints. But yeah. I expect a bunch of incinerates, lightning bolts, the new crappy ball lightning from m11, and other mediocre stuff like flame slash.
Seriously.....we just had this same conversation about EvT....I could have bought 10 of them today for 19.99.
You should read through... Chain Lightning has been CONFIRMED for this.
Is there any other confirmation of this?
It would be very disappointing if that were true...
There's already an alternate art for the bolt... the foil from MPR
Several cards can be eliminated from your list rather easily, just due to the name of the set: Fire and Lightning. It isn't "Burn."
Maybe: Thunderbolt; Pyroblast; Chain Lightning
No: Everything else
As much as I would love to see foil versions of some of the cards you listed (or just reprints of MOST of them), they don't fit the theme of the deck. PoP is damage for nonbasic lands (Earth); Fork is Reserved (and we were just given its successor); Scroll and Ankh are Artifacts.
That said, what I wouldn't mind seeing that hasn't been previously foiled:
Blazing Effigy
Fire Dragon
Fire Tempest
Firestorm
Mana Flare
There are numerous cards that fit the theme that do exist in foil form; what F&L will not be is Legacy Burn, no matter how much we might wish otherwise.
Yeah, but they aren't going to use that one for F&L. More than likely we're going to see the M10/M11 Christopher Moeller art instead of the A/B/U Christopher Rush art used for the Judge Reward. However, Mr. Rush has had recent commissions/licensing agreements with WotC (MTGO Masters Edition 3 "reprints;" M11 reprint of Infantry Veteran), so maybe we will see the original Bolt art. I know I wouldn't mind.
The fact that Fork is on the Reserve list is sort of irreverent. If you hadn't noticed, the from the vault cards that recently came out. Reserve list didn't stop them from printing Karn, Silver Golem, Masticore, Memory Jar or Mox Diamond. Wizards has promised to revert to the way the reserved list used to work after this year, but they are busy printing what they can get away with for right now.
I'd much rather have Red Elemental Blast over Pyroblast. Pryoblast sort of sucks. I'm pretty sure Thunderbolt will be printed, it's a card no one wants, that counts as a burn spell, and can be lumped in to fill up the deck - and it counts for the "several never before in foil" line.
However, I don't think you should dismiss the notion that other cards may be printed. The description doesn't necessarily claim it's a total burn deck. I'm sure there will be several creatures and probably a couple artifacts (Dragonsclaw, no doubt), and the description states "famous flames, bolts, and beats" so it really could be anything, but I'm sure there will be an emphasis on burn spells. Price of Progress would be Epic, and I'm not expecting it, but I'm not ruling it out either.
I expect they will print chain lightning as a "Mythic" and it will be a single in the deck. So, I'll have to buy four of them.
./sigh
They've gone and clarified the foil loophole into oblivion. Yes, it did exist. As soon as they confirmed that it existed, and they were going to use it there was some backlash that wasn't visible to the public (most likely either legal backlash or retailer backlash) which caused them to clsoe the loophole. The current cards that are using it are cards in products that had already been finalized when the backlash happened. They gave a list of exactly which cards were being reprinted. There will be no "surprise" ones that we don't already know about.
There is no more foil loophole. Its gone. They have been explicitly clear in that.
The reserve list is just a policy, a nice gesture from the company, if they wanted to they could print every card on there today and have no legal issues. They just like making people happy by saying they wont reprint them. Which in return is a major sadface for legacy players... (sorry if i have bad grammar atm haven't slept in like 30 hours now or so)
Actually, the company could get in trouble for reprinting. You see, they made a public announcement saying these cards would NEVER be reprinted. Some people bought them at real high prices, since they expect them to be worth even more soon. If they reprint them, values go down. People can legally complain, since the company broke an announcement they made, and that caused them losses. That's why such policies are only made public when you plan on sticking to them.
Even if this were true (which its not) the cost of hiring an attorney would far outweigh any settlement you would receive.
Ah...another sound judgement from the MTGSalvation Legal department... This is sorry to say totally incorrect for a multitude of reasons first and foremost being the fact that they own the rights to said cards...not you therefore unlike stock and other such options your say doesn't mean squat as they make no money directly from that high dollar purchase you made, nor did you at that point invest your interest in the company in a legal sense.
But to get back on topic, they have a functional reprint of fork now anyway so reprinting it to possibly alienate an already uneasy collector base would be unwise. Besides there are so many better things they could be putting in this deck that fork seems dull, its been reprinted in the last few years twice (Twincast and now in 2011) so pushing it down the players throat again seems unlikely.
So while I think they will stick to the announcement for a few years... there might be a time years from now when the insiders make their case to the big bosses and make something happen. After all, are the From The Vault and Dual Deck sets NEARLY as fun without some classics mixed in?
Let me preface this post by saying I am not trying to start a fight over something, but I would like the input of other players on this. Please read thoroughly, because I don't want readers to think I am some jaded hermit raising his fist to the sky and shouting "It's the end of Magic! I'm quitting the game! Magic is dead!" I understand WotC is a business. I understand they're not making these decisions just to hurt me. They know more about what's going on than I do regarding the game and what they have in the pipeline for years to come. I'm just a player buying product. They're not in business to please me; they're trying to make a higher profit.
Tizzy says legal action can be pursued because of a breach of promise. Does the legal action also apply to their gutting extended recently? They gave, what, 2 weeks to use your Ravnica shocklands and Dark Depths? WotC announced changes March 2008 (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/dl27). Ravnica should have been in Extended until the Fall of 2012, but on June 18 they told us we had 12 days to play with those cards before they rotated July 1st (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/95b). Technically, could I complain legally and be reimbursed for losses? I would say "no", since WotC did not specifically say they would never change the rotation schedule again. WotC did say they would never print cards on the reserve list. Opinions? Thoughts?
EDIT: Turning_of_the_tide, above, answered my question I guess. Honestly, I have no idea about the legality of such things. I'm ignorant of the law when it comes to company policies. I still think they violated a social contract with the players (unless it really was for the health of the format).
WotC could announce they're destroying the reserve list and it wouldn't phase me. They could change Extended again or make standard only one year's worth of cards and I wouldn't blink an eye. I'll keep buying cards (because I'm addicted), but the recent Extended changes has lowered my opinion of Wizards of the Coast. It was, in my opinion, an unethical cash-grab.
I'd also like some clarification. I thought at one point they said they did not care about the secondary market, but in an interview with Zac Hill, Conley Woods, and Frank Karsten, Zac said they changed extended because of card availability.
Then fix Legacy, too. Many would like to play it but eschew spending $75 on one land. The secondary market is important. That's where many people get their cards. But to claim card availability for changing one format and leaving another with $400 manabases because of card availability issues is a cop-out.
God, if I wanted to play $600 decks, I'd play Standard. SNAP!