If it started with 5 loyalty you could use the first ability to get to 6, then the next turn use a proliferate spell to get to 7 then use the ultimate.
I don't think the turns-to-ultimate measure is wrong; as a matter of fact it's probably the best thought-out part of the card given its absurdly powerful ultimate.
Quote from michelous »
my guess is this jace is a response to tms being too strong
If so, then Wizards learned nothing from the power creep fiasco of the last few years that begun with Faeries and ended with the banning of Stoneforge Mystic and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
You don't make a bad card design as an 'apology' for making a broken card design. You design a good card that doesn't break the format and call it a day. If Marketing tells you customers will react badly to another powerful Planeswalker named Jace, then you just make a new Planeswalker character.
Although most of my disappointment comes from what I perceive as a poorly executed design, I'll concede that I'm heavily biased against milling as a game mechanic: half the time it means nothing, the other half it means the opposite of what you expect it to mean, and all the while you're left feeling like your opponent just brought an iPod full of classical music to a rock concert.
at least his art is cool
he doesnt look like a nerdy scrub, and his hood is off
I guess the card itself will prove to be a decent one, and for ONCE, Jace won't be such a go-to card, at least as much. However...no saintskeith, no, this. artwork. is. HORRIBLE.
About any "subpar" mechanics or cards: Context is king.
If I make a templating or grammar error, let me know.
The franchise MtG most resembles is Battlestar Galactica. Why? Its players exist in, at most, a dozen different models at any given point in time, with perhaps up to 3% variation, 5% if you're lucky.
+ ability is great, simple
0 milling 10 for 3UU is a lot, and for reanimation decks its incredible
- will probably end the game if used on you or the opponent
Really? Brainstorming for free every turn wasn't bad enough? Now for 1 more than JTMS you can Glimpse your opponent every turn for free? Yeah, this won't be pricey at all.....
At first I thought you meant glimpse of nature, that's usually what glimpse means. If it was glimpse of nature this card might be somewhere in the league of degenerateness, but as it is, this card is pretty much unplayable. It costs too much.
Also, its interesting that I've yet to see a single person comment on how much his +1 is in many ways a cantrip'ed version of Jace 2.0's +2 assuming there's some sort of "see the top of players deck" permanent in Innistrad/M12.
Remember how incredibly awesome Jace 2.0 is in a topdeck war with his +2? With just one playable "See the top card of opponent's/self's deck" card suddenly Jace 3.0's +1 is similar, while giving you a card as well.
I feel like the milling effect has no synergy with the card draw and ultimate ability. If you spend all your time milling, you leave yourself vulnerable to attack on Jace's meager four loyalty. You can draw cards and then ultimate, but why do that at your opponent when you haven't milled him at all thus far. You can ultimate yourself and find the few finishers that blue usually has, but at that point (at 5CC) why not just add another finisher in Jace's spot?
I feel like the milling effect has no synergy with the card draw and ultimate ability. If you spend all your time milling, you leave yourself vulnerable to attack on Jace's meager four loyalty. You can draw cards and then ultimate, but why do that at your opponent when you haven't milled him at all thus far. You can ultimate yourself and find the few finishers that blue usually has, but at that point (at 5CC) why not just add another finisher in Jace's spot?
Jace's abilities are suppose to have synergy with Innistrad block mechanics, ie. the graveyard. The reason why the first ability is opposed to the 2nd, is that while you may want to mill yourself to do shenanigans with whatever graveyard cards from INN work well with it, there may come a point late in the game where you don't want to mill yourself for 10 any longer, or you are looking for one single card left in your library with very little cards left. While this is purely speculative, it makes sense from that stand point, rather than in the context of a vacuum.
I know the game has changed a lot in the last few years, but I sort of feel like if we got...
Jace's Library
:3mana::symu::symu:
Enchantment
When ~ etb, draw a card.
At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card.
That such a card would be plenty playable in standard, EDH, limited, and casual at a minimum. Possibly extended. While Memory Adept is obviously a lot weaker than an enchantment (he can be attacked or bolted), he also can Glimpse people (or you, for reanimator/dredge shenanigans) and if he gets to draw unopposed for two turns he has the unprecedented advantage of drawing 20 cards for you, which should win the game tidily. And being attackable can ease into your game plan too, effectively fogging out an opponent for a turn or 3 while you set up a kill.
Obviously he's not as good as :2mana::symu::symu:: Brainstorm a turn, or unsummon, or fate seal, but that card was just banned, so is it any shock that this one is of a lower power level? Jace, Memory Adept is no mind sculptor, but Preordain is no Ancestral Recall and still saw plenty of play. I like this new Jace :).
Private Mod Note
():
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
It's really interesting how it works with Jace's Archivist. Draw twenty cards, then discard you hand and draw another twenty cards, while all of your opponents do the same.
So you play this guy on Turn 5 (in some 26 land control deck that always hits its 5th land drop), he has no impact on the board, doesn't even threaten to have any impact on the board in the future. You would have to be under absolutely no pressure whatsoever to spend your entire 5th turn casting this guy. It's like the poster child for durdling around. Maybe you could board this in for some control mirror?
Milling yourself 10 on turn 5 (again assuming some bloated land count for this best case scenario) isn't that hot no matter what graveyard shenanigans you have going, because it's far too late to be doing that, and you have no mana left to do anything with the stuff you milled. Maybe if some stuff that is totally free to play if milled is in the format, like Narcomoeba, this is ok.
I think this really is just a casual-oriented PW for the kids who like mill decks and isn't meant to be competitively played. Thinking of competitive applications for him is something that will have to be done when the whole environment is known this fall, but it's possible he just wasn't meant for the spikes.
Sweet! I love getting the Chandra of Jaces!
And the card will probably be about as good as her too. Chandra was never an awful card, and had much potential when it could be used to take out a baneslayer and live (in a pre-titan world...).
Now I think it's time for red to get the Jace 2.0 of Chandras and M12 will officially be "the red mages set."
It had better be to pay us back for removing Lightning Bolt.
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():
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That was pretty interesting. But dropping a warship on me is cheating. Take it back!
Seems like a fine card for a control mirror, but otherwise I don't see it doing much.
EDIT: Upon further thought, if you wrath on turn 4, and then play this on turn 5 it might get you some decent card advantage for the rest of the game, maybe even enough to outpace whatever an aggro deck is doing.
I don't think the turns-to-ultimate measure is wrong; as a matter of fact it's probably the best thought-out part of the card given its absurdly powerful ultimate.
If so, then Wizards learned nothing from the power creep fiasco of the last few years that begun with Faeries and ended with the banning of Stoneforge Mystic and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
You don't make a bad card design as an 'apology' for making a broken card design. You design a good card that doesn't break the format and call it a day. If Marketing tells you customers will react badly to another powerful Planeswalker named Jace, then you just make a new Planeswalker character.
Although most of my disappointment comes from what I perceive as a poorly executed design, I'll concede that I'm heavily biased against milling as a game mechanic: half the time it means nothing, the other half it means the opposite of what you expect it to mean, and all the while you're left feeling like your opponent just brought an iPod full of classical music to a rock concert.
I guess the card itself will prove to be a decent one, and for ONCE, Jace won't be such a go-to card, at least as much. However...no saintskeith, no, this. artwork. is. HORRIBLE.
About any "subpar" mechanics or cards: Context is king.
If I make a templating or grammar error, let me know.
The franchise MtG most resembles is Battlestar Galactica. Why? Its players exist in, at most, a dozen different models at any given point in time, with perhaps up to 3% variation, 5% if you're lucky.
+ ability is great, simple
0 milling 10 for 3UU is a lot, and for reanimation decks its incredible
- will probably end the game if used on you or the opponent
I think he will be great for GY based decks.
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
WBVish Kal, Blood ArbiterWB
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
UBGVorosh, the HunterUBG
WRGisela, Blade of GoldnightWR
WUGJenara, Asura of WarWUG
WBGTeneb, The HarvesterWBG
WUBRGHorde of NotionsWUBRG
There's a big difference between goldfishing and winning an actual game with an opponent who can disrupt you at all.
At first I thought you meant glimpse of nature, that's usually what glimpse means. If it was glimpse of nature this card might be somewhere in the league of degenerateness, but as it is, this card is pretty much unplayable. It costs too much.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Goblins wins turn 3. Whats your point?
If you cant kill a planeswalker, you are not playing magic.
His ultimate with his new guy can hose them.
Daretti
Ezuri
Captain Sisay (In work)
Remember how incredibly awesome Jace 2.0 is in a topdeck war with his +2? With just one playable "See the top card of opponent's/self's deck" card suddenly Jace 3.0's +1 is similar, while giving you a card as well.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
:EDH:
WR Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (HOLD/100) WR
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion (HOLD/100) WB
Those blurry images are fake, as the names are wrong, but all three Lorwyn PWs will be new.
- 4/22/12, Knowledge from the Helvault (Part 1)
In general, sure. You're probably right. In the same Standard environment as a graveyard-matters block? Now Glimpse is looking a lot better.
Also, we're so close to Jace.dec that I can taste it.
4 Jace's Archivist
Instants and Sorceries
4 Jace's Ingenuity
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Jace's Erasure
Planeswalkers
4 Jace Beleren
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Jace, Memory Adept
24 Island
lol
Jace's abilities are suppose to have synergy with Innistrad block mechanics, ie. the graveyard. The reason why the first ability is opposed to the 2nd, is that while you may want to mill yourself to do shenanigans with whatever graveyard cards from INN work well with it, there may come a point late in the game where you don't want to mill yourself for 10 any longer, or you are looking for one single card left in your library with very little cards left. While this is purely speculative, it makes sense from that stand point, rather than in the context of a vacuum.
Jace's Library
:3mana::symu::symu:
Enchantment
When ~ etb, draw a card.
At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card.
That such a card would be plenty playable in standard, EDH, limited, and casual at a minimum. Possibly extended. While Memory Adept is obviously a lot weaker than an enchantment (he can be attacked or bolted), he also can Glimpse people (or you, for reanimator/dredge shenanigans) and if he gets to draw unopposed for two turns he has the unprecedented advantage of drawing 20 cards for you, which should win the game tidily. And being attackable can ease into your game plan too, effectively fogging out an opponent for a turn or 3 while you set up a kill.
Obviously he's not as good as :2mana::symu::symu:: Brainstorm a turn, or unsummon, or fate seal, but that card was just banned, so is it any shock that this one is of a lower power level? Jace, Memory Adept is no mind sculptor, but Preordain is no Ancestral Recall and still saw plenty of play. I like this new Jace :).
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Milling yourself 10 on turn 5 (again assuming some bloated land count for this best case scenario) isn't that hot no matter what graveyard shenanigans you have going, because it's far too late to be doing that, and you have no mana left to do anything with the stuff you milled. Maybe if some stuff that is totally free to play if milled is in the format, like Narcomoeba, this is ok.
I think this really is just a casual-oriented PW for the kids who like mill decks and isn't meant to be competitively played. Thinking of competitive applications for him is something that will have to be done when the whole environment is known this fall, but it's possible he just wasn't meant for the spikes.
wait... you can't.
My Trades
Far out, man
It had better be to pay us back for removing Lightning Bolt.
You have no idea what type of graveyard matters cards will be in the block. Making assumptions in this game are generally bad ideas.
Now you just need a mill card almost as good as archive trap to make it mean. LOL!
GWUbant.fogGWU
EDIT: Upon further thought, if you wrath on turn 4, and then play this on turn 5 it might get you some decent card advantage for the rest of the game, maybe even enough to outpace whatever an aggro deck is doing.
I think this will be worth playing.
[[b]B]DCI Level 2 Judge[/B][/b]