the funny thing is i dont think advance store matters or not.
the store that has been support wotc for as long as i can remember.. didnt get the good helvault(this store has been opened at the very least since i was 9ish and im now 24.)
and the store that most real magic players in my area despise thats been around for maybe 1-2 years, got the good 1.
Maybe that is why, your TO must have forgotten to apply to be an advanced store.
No matter what the feeling of disappointment will stay with me for ages. i will not be supporting my local pre-release and will be traveling to larger events since wizzards has now decided larger venues are after all better than brick and mortar mom and pop stores. guess it was to expected to bad they took away the power to organize large pre-releases from smaller TO's. that how the devil pays those who serve him well.
If all this stuff about "premium helvaults" is true (which I have not seen any proof of yet) I would expect to see eBay being flooded with judge promos, foil angle/demon tokens, and foil oversized cards; but there is not even 1 listing containing any of these things (beyond the usual number of judge promos one would suspect). However there are hundreds of listings for items that were a part of the "regular" helvault contents. Have we seen any hard proof that these premium helvaults actually exist? Because at this point I am extremely skeptical that they do. I've been wrong in the past though so please, if there is hard evidence, show me it so I can begin to ponder the conundrum of why NONE of this stuff has shown up on the secondary market yet.
EDIT: I should also go ahead and mention that the contents of the "regular" helvaults was by no means useless. The oversized cards are selling consistently for $7 on eBay and the tokens for about $5. Collectors want to get one of each and are willing to pay a moderate price for it.
Have we seen any hard proof that these premium helvaults actually exist? Because at this point I am extremely skeptical that they do. I've been wrong in the past though so please, if there is hard evidence, show me it so I can begin to ponder the conundrum of why NONE of this stuff has shown up on the secondary market yet.
They do, the event I went to had one. There weren't any cameras rolling when the judges announced that the store was one of the few to receive special promos. Outside of taking a picture of the contents alongside the promo exalted angel/tutor/other promo, I don't think there's anything else people can do.
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I see a lot of people saying that they were at an event and got a foil Judge promo and foil token from the helvault event but no one has posted a pic of the cards. Didnt the store take pictures? How about some of the players? No one at that even had a phone with a camera? I did 2 of those events and it was the same thing. The store I went to is an Advanced WPN store and has been one for a very long time.
sanddunesurfer asked: reddit is abuzz with the stories of shops that got judge promos on top of the regular helvault contents. I can't help but have a negative reaction (obv just cuz I wish I had gotten a $100 promo just for competing). Not that I didn't have fun. But now my fun seems less. Any idea of marketing's logic behind the decision to do this?
We didn’t have the resources to put that stuff in every Helvault so we thought it would be fun to have it randomly in some Helvaults. Magic is all about variance in what you open so it felt like it would be a cool way to spice things up.
I’ve gotten plenty of feedback of players upset that some people got stuff they didn’t. How do you all feel? Would you rather have some people randomly get different stuff or have everyone get the same stuff meaning no one gets the extra goodies?" this is what maro said on his tumblr page. I felt like I didn't get my money's worth since I had to pay 5 bucks more for the prerelease and didn't have a premimum helvault. There are full foil helvaults I don't know why they couldn't have distributed the foils so at least each helvault got something . Instead of the few getting all foil stuff. Idk what hessaying about variance because this supposedly only was availble to advance stores and stores below just got the regular helvault least with the zendikar thing it was completely random and not based on a stores status.
I thought it was fantastic how they did random premium helvaults to random shops. First off, it gave you something to look forward to. Just as if you would open a pack of magic, your not always going to get that foil misty rainforest in every pack of zendikar you open. If you did then it would be boring and worthless.. Not nearly as special as they are now.. Most of the time you get a garbage rare witch makes buying packs fun because you are always hoping for that big card, and it also makes cards worth more. If everyone would have got $100 judge promos in there helvaults the price of those judge promos would have dropped dramaticly as everyone who went to a prerelease would have pretty much got one, and judge promos and things like that are supposed to be hard to get a hold of! Its a big part of the reason the game is so great because anyone can't just get certain things and when you end up actually getting one, it makes your day that much better. We should be happy getting things at all. It made this pre release unique and fun. Who cares what other people got anyway.. Everyone would complain if everyone got judge promos because it would compleatly ruin the value and collecters status of those cards. Its like that folded hundred dollar bill thing.. One time a scientist gave a monkey a peanut once a day if the monkey would ring a bell. after a few weeks of doing this, the scientist brought in another monkey and would give that one a grape everytime it would ring a bell. the 1st monkey who loved the peanut no longer enjoyed it because of the other monkey getting a grape and he became jealouse.. Had no one of known about other people getting better things, people would have been really exicted about what they got.. everyone is just jealouse about the people that got good stuff. I had a blast and I really hope wizards does somthing like this again!
I'm going to quote something someone else said in another thread:
Ok.. so pretty much what you are saying is that if me and my friend both buy a pack of zendikar for instance.. and I pull a crap rare while my friend pulls a foil misty rainforest, I should be jealouse and yell at wizards for it??? I should say to them that they convinced me to buy a pack because of all the good rares in the set and i didnt get a good rare but my friend did so i shold cry about it??? If we all got amazing things they would not be amazing at all...
Uh, no. It was designed specifically as a marketing tool to bring more customers for the prerelease event, and in that it was successful. Unfortunately, not only did they not follow through with with their promises by filling the vaults with junk (was putting a promo that people can actually put in a deck too much?), but some advanced stores just randomly get 5 grand worth of stuff to hand out to the players just for choosing the right store.
How is that a reward for loyalty? Because I chose to support a smaller LGS (which ended up with 60+ players, they had to split it into two flights to keep the rounds down), I get no shot at the better rewards?
What did everyone expect to be in the helvault anyway??? I heard people thinking tattoos would be in there and maybe some other random junk.. They put some pretty good stuff in there and they didnt have to give anybody judge promos at all.. A pre release is a pre release, this time it had somthing extra and everyone is upset about that??? It just makes no sense... Maybe wizards should appologize to us for not giving everyone that ever played magic $1000 cash...
Ok.. so pretty much what you are saying is that if me and my friend both buy a pack of zendikar for instance.. and I pull a crap rare while my friend pulls a foil misty rainforest, I should be jealouse and yell at wizards for it??? I should say to them that they convinced me to buy a pack because of all the good rares in the set and i didnt get a good rare but my friend did so i shold cry about it??? If we all got amazing things they would not be amazing at all...
The hellvault event was not 4$ it was 30$ also this was hyped to kindgdom come. Then they decide it was going to play favorites to advanced TO without telling anyone. Inequality creates unrest when there are high expectations. The best way to have handle this is to make the vaults the same or simply not hype them so much. Not to say players did not call this on themselvs, imagine the backlash if the promo vault would have been spoiled instead off the regular one, it would have been mirrodin quiting time.
Understand it's human nature to want nice things even if they are free, it drives people to advance in life but it can also drive jealousy towards those that are more lucky.
I really beginning to think the hellvault has been a PR failure of Coldsnap proportions and the dmg of it will impact stores across the globe for the forseable future.
No matter what the feeling of disappointment will stay with me for ages. i will not be supporting my local pre-release and will be traveling to larger events since wizzards has now decided larger venues are after all better than brick and mortar mom and pop stores.
Ugh. Sadly, this may be the prevailing attitude from the "Premium" Helvault fiasco. Way to go Wizards!
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I find it pretty hypocritical of WotC to play favorites after they spent the last two years telling us how much they wanted to shift Prereleases to your smaller LGS. So you effectively force the TOs to stop holding large regional Prereleases, but then run a promotion that favors the largest TOs/stores with special high value promo material. Doesn't reinforce the feel good with your local stores.
Getting to the point that I'm tired of WotC's promotional/PR gimmicks and blunders. The last 18 months have been rife with bad rollouts, poor PR and feel bad situations. Ironic that this past two years have been the best in MTG's history sales wise. The number crunchers are going to look at the financials and claim that these promotions are boosting sales and brand confidence, when the truth is it is doing the exact opposite.
Ugh. Sadly, this may be the prevailing attitude from the "Premium" Helvault fiasco. Way to go Wizards!
I'm likely not even going to go to pre/release events anymore since the recent promotional items all suck. I can draft at home with my friends and have more fun at a much cheaper cost.
I wonder how prevalent my attitude is among players.
@MortalSword: Of course magic sales are going up. Even with all the mistakes Wizards has been making recently, Magic is still one of the very best games around. With geek/gaming/fantasy culture gaining more and more acceptance, of course MtG sales will skyrocket, regardless of what Wizards does. Correlation does not imply causation.
Ugh. Sadly, this may be the prevailing attitude from the "Premium" Helvault fiasco. Way to go Wizards!
Yeah Wizards said F you to everyone who isn't an advanced store who sells their product. Let alone the fact that they had such a huge difference between the premium Helvault which is great as foil tokens are unique and everyone wants shiny generals for EDH. When the regular Helvaults have tokens from packs and stiff toilet paper you really have to wonder what WotC was thinking when they made this event. Someone is getting fired for this fiasco.
I think a lot of the people crying about how this is punishing the small brick-and-mortar stores are overestimating what makes an advanced store. It is not difficult at all to reach the advanced level. I have a friend who opened a store a year ago. He wasn't even open everyday of the week as he still worked his old freelance job 2 days of the week and opened at 3 on wed-fri. His store seats somewhere in the high 50s if packed to the gills. He opened his store in April and got to advanced by July (may have even been June, I forget). He is definitely what you would consider mom n pop/brick-and-mortar/small business/etc. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere and have close to zero player base, I think any gaming store that makes Magic a priority can become "advanced" fairly quickly.
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Yeah Wizards said F you to everyone who isn't an advanced store who sells their product. Let alone the fact that they had such a huge difference between the premium Helvault which is great as foil tokens are unique and everyone wants shiny generals for EDH. When the regular Helvaults have tokens from packs and stiff toilet paper you really have to wonder what WotC was thinking when they made this event. Someone is getting fired for this fiasco.
No one's getting fired. Moving on.
They said "F you" to players by giving them free things that they didn't need to give out in the first place?
The opinion that they favored big events is absurd. I was at a LGS and 1 of the 2 helvaults was a premium. It's an average game store that hosts FNM and some drafts. Just because it was a very limited run is no reason to complain about not getting more free stuff. So WotC gives us something out of the ordinary from previous prereleases (where it was just the promo, that we already got) and people are complaining that some stores randomly got more...seems off base
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The opinion that they favored big events is absurd. I was at a LGS and 1 of the 2 helvaults was a premium. It's an average game store that hosts FNM and some drafts. Just because it was a very limited run is no reason to complain about not getting more free stuff. So WotC gives us something out of the ordinary from previous prereleases (where it was just the promo, that we already got) and people are complaining that some stores randomly got more...seems off base
It isn't an opinion. The brand manager of Magic publicly stated:
"Stores that received a Premium Helvault were chosen at random among WPN Advanced stores"
Not a WPN advanced store? 0% chance of getting one.
It isn't an opinion. The brand manager of Magic publicly stated:
"Stores that received a Premium Helvault were chosen at random among WPN Advanced stores"
Not a WPN advanced store? 0% chance of getting one.
Hence the uproar. If you live somewhere there isn't an advanced store then you would have never realized that a Helvault could have had free money in it. If your area did have an advanced store and you went to your preferred LGS, you may have screwed yourself out of a chance and cooler free crap.
This all combines into a lot of people being upset.
Okay, here's the problem I have with this whole thing...they never told us that there would be "premium" Helvaults. Many people are comparing this to opening a booster pack and getting some crappy rare while the guy next to you gets a foil Planeswalker. With booster packs you always know that is going to be a possibility but with these Helvaults Wizards made is seem like they were all going to be the same, that everyone was going to get something great and that just wasn't the case. If they had come out and told as that a number of the Helvaults would randomly contain some extra stuff I don't think most people would have been too upset if the one they opened didn't. In fact, it might have even encouraged people to play in more Helvault events hoping to get one of the premium ones. The idea of the Helvault was great, it just wasn't handled very well and I think we have the right to be upset about that and voice our opinions on it. Maybe Wizards will get the message and try harder to get it right next time.
That was empahsized even more by the fact that it was already disappointing when it was just cracked. Dice - if I didn't give away my spindowns, I'd have over 20. Tokens - They're not even that good looking for the most part. Oversized cards - Useless trash they shouldn't even have bothered printing since, in reality, it adds nothing to the game except perhaps a very fancy was in EDH to track your Commander's rate of entering/exiting the command zone. I was already feeling pretty bummed by that, and then to hear only some stores which they gave preferential treatment to got the kind of content they built up the marketing to seem was in there.
I would've been happy with a random full-art uncommon Demon or Angel from a previous set or something, at least something a little neat and playable - what they made us expect - would've been enough to make me not care about what other promos other places got. This wasn't the case.
Look at what this is in light of, as well. Just last year, WotC said they were discontinuing the traditional system they had in place that complimented their current system, the process of sending foil/promos directly to their active players, and they said they did this in favor of increasing the prize support for their other big events. Since then, they've also completely dropped doing Mythic foil rares at pre-releases, without so much as a whimper or bang to explain why, they haven't increased the prize support in the form of packs, and now instead of evenly distributing it they're now lumping it onto players in certain populations of their choosing. They deserve some anger for their poor judgement.
Firstly, their nonstop promotion of the Helvault is what got players excited about it's contents. Then, there was something that appeals to only 10% of the community inside, and most everyone was like, well, whatever. People who found out what was inside found out it was just another empty ploy with a 25 cent trinket inside. So oh well, if you go, you know what you're getting.
Then, we all find out that some people got $100 promos in their Helvault and you were given a spindown die? How does this inspire confidence in future products?
If everyone got nothing(as would be the case if there weren't premium helvaults) it would just be another failed promotion with more empty hopes and misleading advertising, nothing new. That wasn't enough for their marketing department. Instead they just decided to give away $100 to some people while the rest get nothing.
I'm done being toyed with. I just cancelled my AVR preorder, and if you're as annoyed with WotC as I am, I encourage you to do the same.
EDIT: I should also go ahead and mention that the contents of the "regular" helvaults was by no means useless. The oversized cards are selling consistently for $7 on eBay and the tokens for about $5. Collectors want to get one of each and are willing to pay a moderate price for it.
There is also someone trying to sell the foil token for $110. My TO had 2 Helvaults, only distributed half 1 (small turn out), cracked the other for himself, and now sells tokens for $5. It was kinda funny because during the prerelease I was asked why I had purchased boxes on ebay and not support the local store. This is why.
It looks like a lot of people on MTGS and other forums are upset, but you must realize that the online communities (many of whom share users) are a very small portion of Magic players. For the people who participated at my LGS's prerelease, I'd estimate half of the players still don't know that there were premium Helvaults (and may never will), and of the half that did find out, the large majority couldn't care less.
Most everyone had a lot of fun where I go even though our LGS didn't get a premium Helvault. Saying that stuff like this hurts the community is very misleading because when you go offline and actually observe the results, the complete opposite seems true.
In my opinion, it was a nice and different promotion to drum up some extra excitement. It's certainly better than doing the same old stuff.
It looks like a lot of people on MTGS and other forums are upset, but you must realize that the online communities (many of whom share users) are a very small portion of Magic players. For the people who participated at my LGS's prerelease, I'd estimate half of the players still don't know that there were premium Helvaults (and may never will), and of the half that did find out, the large majority couldn't care less.
Most everyone had a lot of fun where I go even though our LGS didn't get a premium Helvault. Saying that stuff like this hurts the community is very misleading because when you go offline and actually observe the results, the complete opposite seems true.
In my opinion, it was a nice and different promotion to drum up some extra excitement. It's certainly better than doing the same old stuff.
The only reason im upset is I had to pay an extra 5 bucks for the event and got a normal helvault. Because many distributors told lgs to increase their pr price for the helvault events.
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Maybe that is why, your TO must have forgotten to apply to be an advanced store.
No matter what the feeling of disappointment will stay with me for ages. i will not be supporting my local pre-release and will be traveling to larger events since wizzards has now decided larger venues are after all better than brick and mortar mom and pop stores. guess it was to expected to bad they took away the power to organize large pre-releases from smaller TO's. that how the devil pays those who serve him well.
ya the shop i go to is THE store you go to for mtg in my area.... theyve hosted jsses and PTQs and always have weekly events.
if it isnt considered an advance store.. then i dont know what is..
also the store got 2 helvaults for the weekend.
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EDIT: I should also go ahead and mention that the contents of the "regular" helvaults was by no means useless. The oversized cards are selling consistently for $7 on eBay and the tokens for about $5. Collectors want to get one of each and are willing to pay a moderate price for it.
They do, the event I went to had one. There weren't any cameras rolling when the judges announced that the store was one of the few to receive special promos. Outside of taking a picture of the contents alongside the promo exalted angel/tutor/other promo, I don't think there's anything else people can do.
UG Tishana, Voice of Thunder GU
UBW Sen Triplets WBU
WUBGAtraxa, Praetors' Voice GBUW
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Ok.. so pretty much what you are saying is that if me and my friend both buy a pack of zendikar for instance.. and I pull a crap rare while my friend pulls a foil misty rainforest, I should be jealouse and yell at wizards for it??? I should say to them that they convinced me to buy a pack because of all the good rares in the set and i didnt get a good rare but my friend did so i shold cry about it??? If we all got amazing things they would not be amazing at all...
What did everyone expect to be in the helvault anyway??? I heard people thinking tattoos would be in there and maybe some other random junk.. They put some pretty good stuff in there and they didnt have to give anybody judge promos at all.. A pre release is a pre release, this time it had somthing extra and everyone is upset about that??? It just makes no sense... Maybe wizards should appologize to us for not giving everyone that ever played magic $1000 cash...
The hellvault event was not 4$ it was 30$ also this was hyped to kindgdom come. Then they decide it was going to play favorites to advanced TO without telling anyone. Inequality creates unrest when there are high expectations. The best way to have handle this is to make the vaults the same or simply not hype them so much. Not to say players did not call this on themselvs, imagine the backlash if the promo vault would have been spoiled instead off the regular one, it would have been mirrodin quiting time.
Understand it's human nature to want nice things even if they are free, it drives people to advance in life but it can also drive jealousy towards those that are more lucky.
I really beginning to think the hellvault has been a PR failure of Coldsnap proportions and the dmg of it will impact stores across the globe for the forseable future.
Ugh. Sadly, this may be the prevailing attitude from the "Premium" Helvault fiasco. Way to go Wizards!
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
Getting to the point that I'm tired of WotC's promotional/PR gimmicks and blunders. The last 18 months have been rife with bad rollouts, poor PR and feel bad situations. Ironic that this past two years have been the best in MTG's history sales wise. The number crunchers are going to look at the financials and claim that these promotions are boosting sales and brand confidence, when the truth is it is doing the exact opposite.
I'm likely not even going to go to pre/release events anymore since the recent promotional items all suck. I can draft at home with my friends and have more fun at a much cheaper cost.
I wonder how prevalent my attitude is among players.
@MortalSword: Of course magic sales are going up. Even with all the mistakes Wizards has been making recently, Magic is still one of the very best games around. With geek/gaming/fantasy culture gaining more and more acceptance, of course MtG sales will skyrocket, regardless of what Wizards does. Correlation does not imply causation.
Yeah Wizards said F you to everyone who isn't an advanced store who sells their product. Let alone the fact that they had such a huge difference between the premium Helvault which is great as foil tokens are unique and everyone wants shiny generals for EDH. When the regular Helvaults have tokens from packs and stiff toilet paper you really have to wonder what WotC was thinking when they made this event. Someone is getting fired for this fiasco.
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No one's getting fired. Moving on.
They said "F you" to players by giving them free things that they didn't need to give out in the first place?
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It isn't an opinion. The brand manager of Magic publicly stated:
"Stores that received a Premium Helvault were chosen at random among WPN Advanced stores"
Not a WPN advanced store? 0% chance of getting one.
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Hence the uproar. If you live somewhere there isn't an advanced store then you would have never realized that a Helvault could have had free money in it. If your area did have an advanced store and you went to your preferred LGS, you may have screwed yourself out of a chance and cooler free crap.
This all combines into a lot of people being upset.
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I would've been happy with a random full-art uncommon Demon or Angel from a previous set or something, at least something a little neat and playable - what they made us expect - would've been enough to make me not care about what other promos other places got. This wasn't the case.
Look at what this is in light of, as well. Just last year, WotC said they were discontinuing the traditional system they had in place that complimented their current system, the process of sending foil/promos directly to their active players, and they said they did this in favor of increasing the prize support for their other big events. Since then, they've also completely dropped doing Mythic foil rares at pre-releases, without so much as a whimper or bang to explain why, they haven't increased the prize support in the form of packs, and now instead of evenly distributing it they're now lumping it onto players in certain populations of their choosing. They deserve some anger for their poor judgement.
Then, we all find out that some people got $100 promos in their Helvault and you were given a spindown die? How does this inspire confidence in future products?
If everyone got nothing(as would be the case if there weren't premium helvaults) it would just be another failed promotion with more empty hopes and misleading advertising, nothing new. That wasn't enough for their marketing department. Instead they just decided to give away $100 to some people while the rest get nothing.
I'm done being toyed with. I just cancelled my AVR preorder, and if you're as annoyed with WotC as I am, I encourage you to do the same.
There is also someone trying to sell the foil token for $110. My TO had 2 Helvaults, only distributed half 1 (small turn out), cracked the other for himself, and now sells tokens for $5. It was kinda funny because during the prerelease I was asked why I had purchased boxes on ebay and not support the local store. This is why.
Most everyone had a lot of fun where I go even though our LGS didn't get a premium Helvault. Saying that stuff like this hurts the community is very misleading because when you go offline and actually observe the results, the complete opposite seems true.
In my opinion, it was a nice and different promotion to drum up some extra excitement. It's certainly better than doing the same old stuff.
The only reason im upset is I had to pay an extra 5 bucks for the event and got a normal helvault. Because many distributors told lgs to increase their pr price for the helvault events.